RYAN JASO (Super Evil Genius Corp) - The Marketing Agency Behind Your Favorite Artists & Festivals

Ryan Jaso is the CEO & Co-Founder of the creative and digital marketing agency Super Evil Genius Corp. They work with some of the biggest artists, brands, record labels and festivals in the music industry including John Summit, Fisher, Chris Lake, Splash House, Golden Voice and many more.

In this episode we talk about his many different roles in the music industry and the mindset that propelled his success, what they do as a creative and marketing agency and pro tips for how to navigate your career as an artist.

Follow Jaso and SEGC here:
https://www.instagram.com/jasooooo
https://www.instagram.com/superevilgeniuscorp
https://www.superevilgeniuscorp.com

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Transcript

Ryan Jaso: 0:00

A lot of times artists will get caught up in this Oh my god I I have to make this sound because this is what's popping right now And it's like if you're starting to make that sound because that's what's going on right now. You're already too late You have to make something that sounds authentic to you That you feel like has staying power because if not, you're just going to be chasing trends And it's not really going to help you in the long run

Nik: 0:33

What's up, everybody. Welcome to the headliner mindset podcast. Today's guest is a really special one for me because this is the guy that gave me my first shot and helped me start my career in the dance music industry. He has worn almost every hat that you can starting off, working at a clothing brand, then throwing one of the most successful weekly parties in LA called control, becoming an artist manager, which is where we linked up and work together. He was even the general manager for Steve Angelo's label, Size Records, for a while. And now he runs a super successful creative and marketing agency called Super Evil Genius Corp. And they're working with some of the biggest DJs, bands, and festivals in the music industry. This is Ryan Jaso. My man, welcome to the show. I'm so pumped to have you here, brother.

Ryan Jaso: 1:20

I'm very, very pumped to be here. So thank you for having me on.

Nik: 1:24

I'm pumped for a variety of different reasons. One, I know that the listeners are about to get so much fucking value from this episode because you have had such a rad career in the music industry and specifically in the dance music industry from being a promoter, throwing shows. Being a manager, developing acts, being a record label executive, now running a marketing company. Like you've almost done everything in the fucking business that you can do. So we're about to go in, we're about to go deep. But for me personally, I am just so honestly honored to have you here. And so excited because you are the guy. That launched my career in the dance music industry. And so I just need to first start off by saying, you know, how special this is to me and really how grateful I am because I honestly owe my entire career to you. And I don't say that lightly. Like you're the first dude. That gave me a shot, that gave me a chance, when you were just a, a young buck in Hollywood building your, your little management company. And I came on board, and you know, you, you gave me a fucking shot, man, and it's like, it's just so rad to see where we've both gone since then, so, I just want to kick this off with a boatload of gratitude for you, because I, I truly am in debt to you. You and your generosity.

Ryan Jaso: 2:47

I don't know how I respond to that other than, you know, I'm I'm very, very flattered. Obviously, you know, I think my entire career has been built around betting on things and you know, there's very few sure bets, especially when you're promoting shows, but bringing you on to the management company was like, that was an easy decision. That wasn't, that was a pretty sure bet that you, you had a row, you had a lot of good insight and you were very hungry and excited to, to get to work. And that's what I was excited about. And obviously your energy that you haven't lost any of it. I feel like I, the older I get, the more energy I lose. You still somehow are gaining more energy day by day. So kudos to you. But um, Yeah, I got, I got nothing but great things to say about you. And I look back at those times fondly.

Nik: 3:36

Thanks, brother. Yeah, I'm, I'm doing a fucking Benjamin button, dude. Like I've, I've got, I've gone through my waves, you know, being like, Oh my God, I'm getting old. And then it's like, I don't know where I hit my, like my late thirties. And I was like, I seriously feel like I'm getting younger. I seriously feel like I'm getting more excited. I have more energy. Everyone's like, bro, you don't look like you're 38. You know, I feel like I'm, I'm doing my little, uh, face routine in the morning, putting my moisturizer on, like we're staying young out here.

Ryan Jaso: 4:02

Yeah, man. I mean, you look at like generation generation, right? And I feel like women in their sixties and men in their sixties now, you're like, dude, how was that guy? 60? It looks 30. And I think as, you know, longevity manipulation continues to happen and things we're able to do and A lot of it really comes down to exercise and working out and diet. But like there's, we're all, I'm, I'm on the same journey as you now. I'm like so dedicated to, you know, trying to be a hero as long as possible. But,

Nik: 4:32

Yeah, man. Dude, it really, what hit me was when I was doing CrossFit and, you know, I kind of started a little bit late. Like I was already, you know, my, in my thirties, like my early thirties, um, compared to when some people start that from like a competitive perspective. But I would go to class and there would be dudes that were like 50, 51, 52, and they would fuck me up. had 20 years on them, but they were kicking my ass. They were lifting more weight. They were doing it faster. They were beating me, and that's when I realized, I was like, Yo, this age ain't nothing but a number. You know what I

Ryan Jaso: 5:04

a hundred

Nik: 5:04

of yourself, and you have the right mindset, so.

Ryan Jaso: 5:07

Yeah, that's just it.

Nik: 5:09

I'd love for us to start off sharing a bit about your career, because you've had, uh, Such a cool journey. And like I was saying, you know, you've played a lot of different roles, so I'd love for you to walk people through what are some of those roles that you played? I know that we met when you were a promoter, you guys were throwing shows at control, definitely want to talk about control, but what were you doing before control? Cause I think you started in like the fashion space. Didn't you? Yeah.

Ryan Jaso: 5:38

as, I started at a, uh, a clothing brand called Corbett robot. And I started as an intern there and, work my way up as sales manager. Then I was doing a lot of the marketing, quickly realized like there was a lot of synergy between music and um, and what we were doing from a fashion perspective. The owners were really invested in, they loved music. Obviously we were owned by a music merchandise company. So there was already that connection. We had a lot of bands that we would just give clothes to, to get them to wear Skrillex when he was from first to last Skrillex was, you know, he, he would come in and wear our stuff. And we were like, holy shit, like this kid, even before the Skrillex days. he'd wear our clothes and we would immediately sell out of this one hoodie that we made just from him wearing it. This is like my space days by the way. So this is like pre Facebook, pre any of that. And we're like, Oh my God, like this could really be something. E com was barely even a thing. These guys actually, for the first time I went to Coachella back in 2006 I think was, with these guys who had kind of taken me under their wing and, um, brought me in and showed me the ropes of marketing. And from there, you know, I, I, I parlayed that into, I had moved to LA initially from Orange County to kind of expand the marketing prowess of what I was doing for the brand. You can only do so much in Orange County at the time and I wanted to meet people. And so, kind of moved to LA and just forced my hand a little bit. Obviously that's a lot much faster pace than OC. Um, and when I moved to LA, I started doing events. We did some stuff in Orange County. We had this event called made you look, or we had billed booked Steve Aoki and Africa Bambaataa and this little tiny bar, uh, it's called Detroit bar. And then from there, We started doing events in L. A. And this little grimy club and in Hollywood and booking some artists. And then that turned into control. And then I kind of had to make a decision after about a year in L. A. I think are two years in L. A. I want to say I just made the decision. It was like, I'm gonna full time. just go into the music thing and just focus my efforts on this. And you know, be intentional is what I talk about all the time. Um, being really intentional with what I was trying to do and where I wanted to go with my career. And at that time, music, I'd fallen in love with it and really wanted to get involved.

Nik: 7:59

So just to pick up on a little mindset thing here, because this is the headliner mindset, it sounds like when you were in Orange County, like you, you made that move to LA, like you were wanting a little bit more action, wanting to chase something bigger. Is that accurate to say?

Ryan Jaso: 8:18

100%. Um, Orange County. Like I'm back in Orange County now. I started having babies and you need to be closer to Papa and Grandma. Right? So, and I love O. C. And I love what it is. And I think it makes sense at this juncture in my life. But at the time, L. A. Like I loved going to L. A. And it was just so much faster paced. It's where everything was happening. The music industry was there. All the connections that I want to make all the relationships that I wanted to make. I had done so many things in Orange County and we had a really wildly successful monthly event at this little bar where we're selling it out. But I felt like at the time, if I wanted to really get the clothing brand into the hands of these huge artists in different areas that we weren't able to do, LA was going to be the place. And I was like spot on. As soon as I moved to LA, you could tell like the energy, how fast it was. It was night and day. It was just a completely different atmosphere. And because everyone else around you was moving quickly. you were either catching up or you're getting on the bus, you're getting off like everyone else is moving at that same speed that was in your lane. And it was, it was massively important to just be in that energy and be in that scene.

Nik: 9:27

So then you went all in on throwing shows and being a promoter. You left the merch thing. That was really lighting you up at that time.

Ryan Jaso: 9:34

Yeah, it wasn't, it was a tough decision because, you know, I, I said I was, I started as an intern for that company. I worked for free, I grinded for four months just to prove that I could do that. Uh, and I had been with them for five years. And so it was, it was just the mindset of if you're talking about mindsets, it was a mindset of I'll do whatever it takes to make this work. I'll do whatever I can do to make it work. And then once I really got into it and we had started control right around this time of, when I was leaving the clothing company, I was like, this is something, this is real. And, I'd started managing artists. I think that was right around the time when, when we started working together. It was like, okay, I can do this. I can just do this. Like financially, like it's going to be a hit in the beginning. There's that, guaranteed w two is gone. It's we're on the 10 99 plan now, so we're not getting a, we're not getting that steady paycheck or the insurance benefits or any of those things. But like I needed to kind of cut the cord and focus on, it's funny cause it wasn't focusing on one thing. It was focusing on control but also focusing on the management company and really kind of seeing where that would take me. Yeah,

Nik: 10:52

that paycheck every other week and really go out on your own and be an entrepreneur. You were throwing your own show, starting your own management company. What really helped you make that decision? Cause I think there's a lot of people that are kind of sitting at that fork in the road, you know, it's scary to leave the fucking job, right? So what, what really helped you actually take that leap of faith?

Ryan Jaso: 11:12

well, I think it was a little bit of a cheat code, right? Because control was starting to make money. We were doing shows and making a little bit of money here and there where like I could, it wasn't, it wasn't a cold, like, you know, it wasn't chopped. Like we're just, we're just, moving into this and let's see what happens. I had like, I had some. Yeah, there was, there was irons in the fire. There was some things that were working already and there was a little bit of money being made and it was like, I'm going to take a hit in the short term, but longterm, I believe that this is going to be an absolute game changer for what I want to do. And like, I'm, I'm doing this at 50 percent right now. Right. Because I have this other gig that I'm driving all the way back to Long Beach every single day from LA.

Nik: 11:55

Yeah.

Ryan Jaso: 11:56

I'm just gonna fully commit and like what does this look like if it's a hundred percent of my focus, you know, like

Nik: 12:02

It was a, it was the same thing for me with coaching. I was coaching part time for two years and it was like, okay, I'm making an extra couple hundred bucks. And now I'm like making an extra couple thousand bucks. It's like, all right, but where's that moment, right? Uh, all right,

Ryan Jaso: 12:15

an inflection point, right?

Nik: 12:16

It's such an interesting, it's an interesting moment. I think every artist kind of gets to that moment too. I'm getting some shows. I'm making some money. I still got the 40 hour a week job though wins that moment to like really send it and go for it. And, I mean, there's always going to be an element of, you know, Leap and the net will appear, right? Jump off the cliff and trust that like things are going to work out. But also, like you said, yeah, make sure you're also jumping into something. There is at least a little bit of momentum going there. If you just started producing six months ago, please don't quit your

Ryan Jaso: 12:48

Yeah, yeah, I mean listen, I think there's plenty of viral tiktok clips or instagram clips It'll tell you to just like you got to just commit fully i'm not gonna tell people that only because like for me it was I was able to kind of see and like do both. Plus like, you know, the other thing that we're not saying here is the clothing company, because I was able to gift artists and, and like bring value to them. I think it was a bridge for me too, for a while. Like I could, it was an opener of, I could, uh, you know, the carpet robot was sponsoring some of the early control shows and sponsoring these shows and OC. So they were harmoniously intertwined where I could use one. I I'm like a serial, you know, Oh, well, how do we bring this brand into this activation? Like that's, I still do that stuff today. And at the time I felt like that was really something that would make it easier for me to, you know, combine these two things and eventually it was like, okay, well, you just got to focus on this and like, really go for it. Like you said,

Nik: 13:52

And so this brings us to control, which was such a freaking, you just landmark event. In the dance music history, honestly, you know, this is this is where we met little little sidebar. I was working at Capitol Records at the time. I had the Capitol Records email address I wanted to get into management. And my intern had found this guy Dallas K on SoundCloud And I reached out to him from my Capitol Records email address Like, hey bro, like, I'm a manager, you know Like, I got this shit going on I didn't have shit going on at all But, uh, convinced him to work with me I think we officially worked together for like a month but during that month I got him booked, uh, literally right across the street from Capitol records was Avalon Hollywood. And you guys were throwing the weekly Friday night party there. So I got, I got Dallas booked. I remember meeting you in the green room and just kind of like mentioned something about like, yeah, I got a management company and I was like, I'm trying to be a manager.

Ryan Jaso: 14:49

be a manager.

Nik: 14:50

that was how it all happened. But let's talk about. because it was a, it was a special party. You guys were doing something different you guys were really like a step ahead of the music that was coming. I feel like you guys were really tastemakers and really just had your finger on the pulse of like the new waves of music. You know, you were the first ones to book, the Skrillex is and the Dylan Francis and the DJ snake, you know, all these guys that weren't, weren't So, how did you know what was cool and what was coming? That's my question. Cause you guys, that's like what made Control special. You guys had like a, uh, like a crystal ball that you just knew what the next wave was.

Ryan Jaso: 15:32

Yeah, I mean, it was, um, it was interesting because at the time, the Saturdays, I loved, I loved, uh, Steve Angelo, and I'm sure we'll talk about that. Come back to that point later and the progressive house. And I know that was your first love too. That was a lot of the stuff that I really liked As far as dance music went at that time. And the Saturdays was just, uh, massive, thing that was happening at Avalon, it was Avalon Saturdays and it was John Digweed and then Axwell and then Sebastian Ingrosso another week. And it was just sold out, massive progressive house techno. And it was. Actually, Kobe, uh, was doing those back in the day on the Saturday. So, We came in, there was this, um, my partner was a DJ and he would DJ, some of these parties and then. But that were that we were getting, that he was getting booked for, and it was this OMG brand and it was just like, Pop. It was almost like LMFAO and things like that. And it wasn't really working. They were trying to do a Hollywood in this big theater. Right. And it was like, you know, at a time when Hollywood was doing the tens of thousands of dollars Apollo service 2008. So this is like right before the recession happened, like into 2008. And then what we realized like quickly was if we, the progressive house thing, and this, this is working really well on the Saturdays, um, But we were going out to Cinespace on Tuesdays, and Banana Split on Sundays, and it was like, okay, there's this really crazy underground thing happening, where these really dope artists, it's almost, I loved it because I love metal and rock, and I think that's also where you and I bonded.

Nik: 17:11

Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Jaso: 17:12

And there,

Nik: 17:13

that punk ethos.

Ryan Jaso: 17:15

was a punk ethos. to it, it was like, Yeah, there was like, you know, yeah. Yeah. Bands like, does it offend you? Yeah. And then there was things like bloody, bloody beetroots and justice and like all this stuff was like, this is metal. This is, this is not, this is not progressive house. I love progressive house. Don't get me wrong, but this is a very different thing that's coming and it's filling these little rooms. Like Cinespace is 300 people, really, probably 200 legally, you know, it was a really tiny space and they're packing it out with these like crazy artists that sound nothing like progressive house. So at the time it was like, Well, this movement's coming and like the LMFAO thing, you're going to run out of artists like that to book on a Friday. There's just, there's not something you can do weekly with that kind of sound. So we came in and we changed the name to control and we leaned straight into doing just that. Just like, we're going to go after, I think the first party we ever did was Felix Cartal. Then we had, um, you know, we had months of it not working and, and, you know, um, Kudos to the owner of Avalon who believed in what we were doing and realized like a lot of club promoters and a lot of owners of venues You have a couple nights that don't make money or that shit the bed or they break even or they lose a little and they're There they don't have the patience to stick with it. We stuck with like winners and losers

Nik: 18:35

were they funding, like were they helping pay for talent, or was that all on you guys? Like, how did that work?

Ryan Jaso: 18:41

The other events we did, we, there was many times where we went to the ATM if it was a bad night, went to the ATM after the night to pay the artist. In the control situation, we had, we had set this up a little differently. It was a little bit bigger, a little bit bigger and we had set it up in a way that we had like a co promotion deal, but they, they had covered the cost on, on booking artists. We had very small budgets in the early day, though. We didn't get these, like, these, like, 20, 30, 40, 50, 000 budget. Straight up. We had to prove it with the two to three to 5, 000 acts first, before we could even have that conversation.

Nik: 19:11

And that room is not a small room though. You're talking about Cinespace and these, you know, two to three hundred cap shows that were happening. But what, that was like, Avalon's like fifteen hundred

Ryan Jaso: 19:23

Yeah, legally it was 1500. I think we put it, we squeezed a couple more bodies in there in the early days. And I think the actual numbers probably around 1500. Yeah. So you're talking about like. going in at 7, 8x the capacity at where this music was really hitting in LA. And I mean, you know, we, we just, we really believed in what it was and what it was going to be. And you know, that first party with Felix Cartel, I don't know that we sold more than three, 400 tickets. So it was a little scary in the beginning because it was the marker in the initial was, Oh, maybe this really is all that it can do. Maybe it really is only. Only under it's still very underground and we're a little too early, but we stuck with it. And I think it was around February or March. So like three, we started in December. So three months in, we landed a track and a track was like, that kind of changed the trajectory of the entire event because it was, we sold it out. And then some, it was, you know, 2000 people through the doors throughout the night, something like that. It was like, okay. Okay, nerves are settled, owner of the venue, really sees the vision. We see that there are two, 3000 kids that are into this music per week that will show up.

Nik: 20:35

Yeah, I think there's a big lesson in that in, you know, trusting your instinct but then also sticking with it, you know, even if you don't see the results right away. It can be easy to pivot and think, Oh, well, this isn't working. You know, maybe this sound I'm making isn't popping off. Right. But if in your heart, you know, like, no, this is, this is it. I fuck with this. I'm passionate about this. I know there's something here. Like you really trusted yourselves. Um, and it, but it didn't happen right away. So you had to kind of be in that, that space of the unknown for a little bit and really trust your instinct.

Ryan Jaso: 21:14

Get comfortable in the uncomfortable, right? It's like getting yourself in these moments and where it's not going to happen overnight. It's just not. We live in this vacuum now, social media, where you see the artist that gets all the accreditation and like, Oh my God, they blew up overnight. The song had a billion streams and it's like, that's not realistic. I mean, there is one of those, but for every one of those, there's a hundred thousand of the other side of the thing. Right? So I have this running rule with with me and the companies that I've done all the different ventures and things I've done. It's like. If you can do something for in my world, if for business wise, if you make it to the five year mark, you've made something, you've really made something that is tangible, that it can exist in a marketplace that really exists. Just making it to a year like I don't have the percentages off hand, but you know, the percentages of how many businesses fail in the first year. So just making it to that first year is already a milestone. Getting to five means that you've made something and it's and it's got some staying power. And with artists, I feel like. A lot of times artists will get caught up in this Oh my god I I have to make this sound because this is what's popping right now And it's like if you're starting to make that sound because that's what's going on right now. You're already too late You have to make something that sounds authentic to you That you feel like has staying power because if not, you're just going to be chasing trends And it's not really going to help you in the long run

Nik: 22:41

And I can definitely, as a business owner myself, that's in his, I think, sixth, maybe coming onset, it's like, this has been year that it's starting to click. It took me fucking five years to figure this shit out, and like, you know, get clear, and like, hey, who am I serving? What am I doing? How does this business work? I didn't know what the fuck I was doing for the first five years, and now it's like, okay, it's finally starting to click, you know, and that's something I emphasize so much on. This podcast is like, yes, you're an artist. First and foremost, you need to be an artist and make art, but like, you're also a business owner and these same, I don't care what industry you're in, all these same business principles really apply. Right. So I'm, I'm, I'm glad you're saying that. And, uh, with this particular business control, you guys ran that for like 12 years about weekly parties, every single Friday night for how

Ryan Jaso: 23:31

I think it was I think it was 10. We never got to do a 10 year anniversary, unfortunately, but we did 10 and then COVID was kind of the nail in the coffin. When COVID happened, we were, we were kind of officially, you know, on hiatus.

Nik: 23:45

that's insane. That's wild. You know, I'm just I'm just trying to run a little podcast every week. You know, you guys are throwing fucking 2, 000 person shows every weekend, right? Quite an operation. I have two questions around around that for you. One. What would you say was the biggest The business lesson or just lesson in general that you learned from control 10 years of throwing that party

Ryan Jaso: 24:10

That's a great question. Well, I guess the biggest one was, it was, it really was the first lesson for me and like what we were just talking about, it was, it was, you have to trust your instincts and you have to have convictions in what you're doing in the sense that you need to stick things out even if they're not working., Because, you know, we're coming off of an event that didn't work, that we just did for nine months in a small, really small room, uh, in Hollywood that really didn't work. I mean, we were getting our friends there, but we weren't getting the general public there. So we're coming off of a room that held 180 people and we're trying to book things and it was like Our friends showing up. No one really wants to pay a cover Like no one wants to do anything like most the bar tab is me. So like there wasn't There wasn't really it was like Okay is this a second time? This isn't going to work. And you know, that eight track show is three, four months into it. And we're like, Oh no, no, this is, this is real. It was four months. I think it was March. So it was like four months, but we went through three months of like, okay, this show, maybe it sold 600 tickets and maybe we broke even, maybe we only lost a thousand bucks this night. Okay. Maybe we did this. And then, you know, we had those like one marker of success. And like, I think where this translates for artists, which is your listeners, it's like you can trust in like. one little thing that works for you and leaning into the things that you're good at and the things that you know and the things you have access to is like always what we, what we did. No, well, always what I've done with anything I've done is like believe in the things that you have at your disposal. And those are like your, your first indicators of how can I, how can I make money off of this thing? Like you, like your coaching business, you're relying on those, these relationships that you've built over the last 15, 20 years in music. Music. To then apply that to this new venture and people that love and trust that you've done right by them I'm sure we're like, of course this makes sense Definitely do that. You know, i'll definitely call this guy when I need that. So

Nik: 26:11

That's a great point is it's been not only the last five, you know, six years of running this business But it was the 10 years of building relationships before that also That contributed to the success of the business

Ryan Jaso: 26:23

I mean there's this great saying it's like in creative and we'll get I know we'll get to the creative agency at the end, but there's this great thing of um And it's, and it just holds so true. And it's exactly what you're saying of, you know, someone says, well, why does this logo cost 5, 000? You took you 30 minutes to make. And it's like, no, no, no. It took me 40 years and 30 minutes to make, because it's based on all of my experience, all of my life lessons and all of my relationships, all of that stuff to get to this point is what you're paying for. You're not paying for the time I'm able to make that, or I'm able to do that thing I'm able to coach. Give you a session in an hour because of every book I read, every experience I had, every single aspect that I took to get here for you to even trust me with that part of what I'm doing.

Nik: 27:11

Yeah. Yeah. Thousand percent, man. Beautifully said. My second question around control was I mean, you saw And helped countless artists over those 10 years, you know, a lot of them that started in the side room and then went on to become the fucking biggest DJs in the world, right? Like you've seen a lot of artists go from zero to a hundred. What would you say are some of the top qualities and characteristics from, those artists that like came through and really popped off?

Ryan Jaso: 27:43

Well, you're talking about the side room, right? Like Skrillex played the side room first. Obviously we don't have to talk about his trajectory and where he is today, but he was a completely different animal. Like there was just, His sound was different. I mean, before scary monsters and nice sprites. Like before all of that stuff, like it was different. It was just like, there wasn't anything that sounded like that. Dylan Francis, another guy that played the side room, had the Moombahton sound, like it didn't exist. Basically there was this, it was a completely different thing. And you're talking about like everything else we're talking about here. Like those are two guys who trusted that what they were doing was the right thing. And. It was way different, but they knew that if they made it and did it that they hope that people would like it. Right. But they believed in it. They trusted in it and they thought it. I think that, like, to be fair, like, what was what Skrillex said, like, before that he had a project called sunny sound and he was singing on it. It was electronic. But it was like his testing ground. He didn't get to Skrillex like, Oh, I'm just going to do this. Like he, he, he tested, he like beta tested with this, with this other thing that didn't work. And then he was able to, okay, I'm going to do this. And then it turned into something. So I think to answer that question, more long roundabout way here is, um, the artists that like really believed in what they were doing, the artists that knew that it mattered to them. What they were doing and they were making it for themselves. And like the goal was to get obviously commercial success, but they believed in it so much that why wouldn't someone else believe in what they were doing?

Nik: 29:22

Yeah, that's it's an important nuance. I think is it's like you can try to make something unique because you're trying to be successful because you're trying to like outsmart the competition, but it's not actually coming from the same places when you're making it from the perspective of like, I fuck with this so hard, you know, like, and it's just that real deep, deep, genuine lane of authentic self expression as an artist, which those guys were definitely doing.

Ryan Jaso: 29:49

Yeah, it was it was for them. They made it for them. And they knew that they believed in it so much. And it's like everything that I've done in my career is the same same mindset, right? It's like, I believed in what I was doing. It's weird that you don't. And if you don't believe in what I'm doing, that's okay. Because I do. That energy and the way that I speak about what I'm doing, whether it's control or the agency now or anything that I've ever done, I believe in it. If you don't, that's on you. And that was kind of like the, the energy that I bring into everything. And you can tell when people have those convictions and their music or what they're doing, they believe in it. And then you almost questioned, I've never heard anything like this before, but that guy seems to know and think that this is dope. So

Nik: 30:37

yeah,

Ryan Jaso: 30:38

maybe I'm wrong. You know, you're almost changing people's minds with, with your mindset.

Nik: 30:43

yeah. Love that. Yeah. And so I want to dive into super evil genius core and talk about the creative agency before we get there though, there is, there was another piece of your story that was really cool, which is that you were, I think it was at the manager, the GM of size records, Steve Angelo's label for a

Ryan Jaso: 31:00

Yeah, I was the label manager for, for, for size for about 18 months for about a year and a half.

Nik: 31:06

Yeah,

Ryan Jaso: 31:07

at the time I was, I think I had six clients on the management roster, couple that were doing really well. You know, Mac J was at the peak of his powers at that point and had five other artists and still doing control and got asked, His, his manager at the time was a good friend of mine, Seb Weber. And he said, Steve's looking to open an LA office and he wants to, he's interviewing managers. I think you should apply for this. And Steve and I hit it off and it, and it turned into something that like I, it was, I still can't believe I was doing all four of those things at the same time. Then I looked back at it, but I wouldn't change it for anything. It was like, that guy, I think, Steve really influenced where I wanted to go when we started this agency was just the way he approached creative and the way he approached his craft was second to none. And, he's just such an innovator and it was really cool to work under someone, especially because coming off of control. And management, like I had been kind of on my own, like running these companies, in a way, like I had a partner in one of those that we'd bounce ideas off each other, but I hadn't worked for anyone in a while. So like being able to work for someone and see his vision for it and like how he would do things, it was a really cool, like stop, you know, bus stop on the, on the, the road to be able to kind of see what he was doing and how he approached his craft. It was like, Oh shit. Okay. This is another level. I can really apply some of this. I felt like I was getting like re educated, so to speak, at that time. It was really cool.

Nik: 32:52

That's super cool to hear and, and it really makes sense. I'm curious about how working with Steve at Size and seeing his, as you say, just like his approach to creative, like how did that influence and impact you in the way that you do things? Thanks.

Ryan Jaso: 33:10

So the amazing thing about size at this time is Steve owned a creative agency and the creative agency, was attached to the label. So when we signed a record, we would send the record off. We'd send the file over. And they'd make the artwork. So all of that, that artwork. And if you remember, it was, it was like way ahead of every, oh, it was really cool.

Nik: 33:33

Yeah.

Ryan Jaso: 33:34

And they were making visualizers and all this stuff. And it was all being done. This is 2013. Remind, mind you, like this is 2013. Yeah. this is a long time ago. So there's this, a creative agency attached. So it was like, I'm working with these phenomenal creatives. This guy, he's actually, In Sweden now, and he's working for a creative agency doing some really big projects. I connected with him recently. They were doing all the creative. So it was like this entire ecosystem and being a part of that was like, okay, creative agency for the music industry. Brilliant. How do we like, and at the time they weren't doing a whole lot of music based projects. They had some other things, but I think size obviously being the, and Steve, like working with Steve, but those are the big ones. But I was like, okay, that kind of just like. Maybe this is something, and then, you know, fast forward a little bit down the road, things really changed.

Nik: 34:25

That's so cool, man. It sounds like that it, it all starts to make sense now. I can see how that was an inspiration to really like step into the creative agency world yourself and get a good, uh, kind of masterclass. And that's so cool. I hadn't really thought about that, you know, but you know, now I think it is, we are living in such a, visual content era where it is about Instagram and Tik TOK. And we know that like. It's about so much more than just the music, but 10 years ago, it wasn't right. 10 years ago, it was a totally different landscape. So to see that they were really emphasizing that, like, Hey, when we put out music, we also got to put out really cool visual content and do it in like a progressive way. That's pushing boundaries. And it's, it's this other. This other lane of art that a lot of people are just missing out on right just doing the sonic side of it But not doing the visual side of it But yeah guys like Steve Angelo and you know, obviously a handful of other, bigger artists were as well So that's super cool Totally makes sense So now you are the founder, the CEO, running a creative agency yourself. Let's talk about Super Evil, which first off I think is just the coolest fucking name in the world. Uh, it's so

Ryan Jaso: 35:38

Thank you.

Nik: 35:39

It's so good. what is it exactly that you guys do as a creative agency?

Ryan Jaso: 35:44

So we actually started as a social media digital marketing agency. My partner, Colby Rice, he came from live nation doing marketing and overseeing the budgets at hard. And, we started it in like a little corner of another agency I was a part of at the time, and we sat in the corner and we were like, we're going to build this thing. this marketing department, we're going to do social and marketing, which is again, going all the way back. Marketing was the stuff I really enjoyed. And he's just really intelligent and really sees things differently as far as social media and how all that goes. And like when he came over, he had clients, so he had a few clients and you know, quickly we realized like, okay, we need to like full services. Because at the time we were doing social and marketing, But back to the, what we were saying earlier is like, we get handed creative. And if the creative wasn't good, you can't market it. So we're trying to market creative. And if the creative is not good, we, we can't market this. We can't sell it. And when who's on the hook, if it doesn't sell, it was like

Nik: 36:43

And let's break this down real quick, just so that everybody really, really understands what is the difference when you say creative versus social versus marketing, right? Like,

Ryan Jaso: 36:53

Yeah. So it's a great question. So, marketing and social, meaning we would do, we, we do currently, we Services where we manage your social media pages. We're posting the content, and because we're a creative agency, we can create that content, not just post it. And that's organic posting, that's boosting posts, as in running ads, both natively to platform. We can run Facebook ad campaigns. We work with not just artists now, but we work with, we have seven music festivals under contract currently. Where we're kind of overseeing and working on big marketing budgets for them. I guess the easiest way to put it is if an artist came to us or a brand came to us, we can build the brand from scratch, we can build everything. And then once it's ready to go to market, we can then run the social media. We can run the marketing campaigns. We could do the digital marketing and the ad buying behind all of that. And then most, our most recent addition last year was we added PR and comms. So that's a social PR aspect where we're running behind the scenes, like feeding our own content to these other pages that are like minded. There's all these techno pages that I'm sure everyone pops up in everyone's feed that are posting these crazy things like you can see all of that. So there's a lot of, a lot of that. So it's, it's, it's three tiered now where it's ideation, creation. And then we're actually marketing it and putting it out there and putting the strategy behind it. And then running the, ads and everything else behind it to like, really make it go far

Nik: 38:23

yeah. So really, really a full service and this sounds, I know so many artists are getting so excited at just imagining. This dream reality and possibility where somebody else just handles all of the social media for them. Cause I know so many artists are like, yo, I just want to make the fucking music and it would be so cool if somebody else, did the rest of this for me. Right. Um,

Ryan Jaso: 38:52

It's not possible. So, like, I'll just cut that right there, which I think is what you're, you're, you're leading. You're leading me into this, this answer, but you still can't just completely absolve yourself from that. That part of the business, right? Like we can, I think the easiest way to put it is like we can speak for you, but ultimately we need to have the parameters of what that means. Like, we need to understand your voice, the vision, like the brand, like we have to speak to something in a way that makes sense. So. We're still hopping on a weekly or bi weekly call. And and we're doing this stuff for you and we're, we're, we're getting approvals. This is, you know, we have to sound like you on social media too. Like we've had people tell us, I don't like that emoji. Like, you know, so we have people who are very particular about the way they sound on social and the things they post. So on the one hand, yes, absolutely. We can definitely, post for you. We can come up with strategy. But. Ultimately, you're the one out there as that artist. So if we're speaking for you online, I mean, like until someone goes and actually sees you play, like they're more likely to catch you online or catch you on social than they are to see you play. Right. So like, we have to make sure that that voice aligns with who you are. We make you into this like crazy thing and then you have to go out and and live that That's gonna be difficult if that's not who you genuinely are inside and Artists like we do branding too for brands. So we have cannabis brands. We have alcohol brands. We've done product brands the artist projects are so different because We're creating a brand for a person. Yeah, it's an alter ego for an artist, but it is them. And it's not the same as doing a cannabis brand. Like we can make it look dope and all this stuff, but like, it's not a human being that we're making this brand for. We're making it for an actual product. So it needs to be cool and feel like something unique, but it's, they're not the same thing. It's like, it's a very personal experience, for an artist versus, versus a product.

Nik: 40:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. What do you think artists don't like really understand when it comes to this process of building your brand, putting out content, like really building a proper artist project? Where do you think some of the like missing gaps are for people?

Ryan Jaso: 41:07

I think it's like you just said, where you have artists frothing at the thought that they don't have to do this anymore. Like they can get away with this. It's unfortunately, fortunately, however you want to look at it, it is a part of the way music works. Music still a business and it is a part of the process. And if you want to just make music, I mean, it's, it's, it's funny because I'm saying this out of both sides of my mouth because. As an agency, like there's graphic design and there's art, right? Like, and we're making art. Graphic design is we're making art for somebody else. Whereas like you can make art for yourself. And if it goes out into the universe and you know, a hundred people stream it and you're cool with that, then that's awesome. Then that, that is that that's great for you. But if you're trying to have a career in music and you're playing into the commerce aspect, that is the music industry, then it does It requires this is the marketing arm of what you're doing. It requires someone to really be thinking from a strategic standpoint, and it's really easy to see and like you can go down the list of the most popular artists that are happening. If you want to just look at the three biggest artists in dance music that have popped up in the last year, year and a last, we'll say 223 years. It's John Summit, who we work with. Dom Dolla and Fred again. I'm not doing those in any particular order because I'm not playing that game. But those are the three that have really become superstars. And if you really dig in and see what they're doing on social, what they're doing creatively, what they're doing from a marketing perspective, all of them are doing very different things, by the way. But they're all playing that game. And they're all incredibly good at social. They're all incredibly good at the way they speak to their audience. They know their audience. They know the way they want to act. It's not like I woke up and what do I tweet today? You know, it's not that mentality at all. It's It's all very thought out. It's all part of their process. And it's something that is, that is a huge part of what we're doing here and, um, and where we're going.

Nik: 43:13

Yeah, I totally forgot that you guys work with john summit and that's probably the most Common name that I hear come up when i'm like talking with clients and artists or whatever They're like, oh like like he just comes up even if like you don't like his music You don't like his brand or whatever Everybody uses him as an example because it's been just such a fucking home run You know, it's just like all of the planets have aligned and he's really uh, he's really blown up. So, has that looked like working with him? What is it exactly that you guys have helped him with? And maybe we could break down a little bit of that strategy.

Ryan Jaso: 43:46

Sure. So almost three years ago now, two years, two years ago, sorry, about two years ago, a little over two years ago, they came to us, because he wants to start a record label, which at the time was off the grid. And we built the record label branding. We did all the branding for it. So came up with the name with him. We worked, on it together. We built this like really incredible, brand ideation. And there's this. Same thing as the side, going back to the size things, like there's this synergy between all the releases, all the releases feel like an off the grid release. And you know, obviously that's changed and it's turned to experts only, which is the newest version of what he's doing. But we've been doing to answer your question, we've been doing his creative direction on the record label side for experts only, uh, we've helped with merch design, merch production. On a lot of his, uh, graphics. Um, we've done various graphics. We've done billboard design. We did the billboard for him in L. A. And then a couple other things. We do a lot of his tour poster design too. So we did the BMO poster when he played in L. A. We just did the Madison Square Garden poster design. We've done a bunch of stuff for him. And he's been a real pleasure to work with him and his team. Like, I can't say enough good things about their team. They're, they're awesome. And they're super, I mean, it's just a rocket ship and they're just, It's how fast it's grown in the last two, even the last two years when we started with them versus where it is now is insane. Team's grown, uh, uh, along the way. And, you know, it's funny. It's the agent is the same agent that I worked with a long time ago on some of my artists. He's with Ben Spritz. So it's, it's really cool to be able to like see it hang with Ben again.

Nik: 45:22

Awesome. What are some other success stories that you've had at the agency that you're proud of?

Ryan Jaso: 45:29

I won't give you the boring answer, but we've had a ton of success. I think there's, there's two ways to look at that, right? We've had a lot of, success as far as client work and massive things we've done. I mean, we have clients such as Splash House. We're in our third year here with Splash House. We did Desert Air, which is another Golden Voice Festival. We're doing the No Values Festival marketing, which is a festival out in, um. Pomona, it's all like social distortion and misfits. Yeah,

Nik: 45:53

that's like metal and shit,

Ryan Jaso: 45:54

Yeah, metal and

Nik: 45:55

and stuff? Yeah, let's

Ryan Jaso: 45:57

awesome. So we're doing that one. We have a project called Stern Grove, up North. I think, a big one for me, uh, we've been doing, we did the last Porno for Pyro's tour, which is, uh, Perry Farrell's band, their last tour ever. So we just wrapped that came campaign up. We were able to double their social media following and, um, in. We did PR, so we got them a bunch of PR activations, got them on the cover of the LA times, all kinds of amazing stuff. And really kind of helped navigate the, the marketing waters on that one. That was a really cool one for me. Cause it was a band I grew up listening to. We work with the band Bush and Gavin Rossdale, which is like bands. I was, yes, band. I was like, I, you know, I fell in love with in like seventh grade. So there's been some really cool projects that we currently have. I think, um, you know, If I had to go back only, I think as Fisher is a huge one that we worked with, two, three years ago for about a year and a half. Chris Lake and black book. Um, that was such a huge one. I think, you know, I talked earlier a little bit about like, you know, leaning into the things that you have at your disposal and the, the, the resources you have that are available to you. the big thing for me when we were managing together was. I didn't know what I was doing. I was kind of figuring out as I went and like learning and what I would, my thing I would do is I would buy someone dinner or lunch like, Hey dude, can we go to lunch? I'll buy you lunch. And I would use that hour, hour and a half to just pick their brain on what they were doing and how I could implement that into what I was doing. And it was the best 20, 50 I ever spent because it was like I was getting a class. And how do I figure these things out? So I think with all of that, like after all that time, like all of those, and then I would book their artists. If it was a manager, I would do all of that. So fast forward till now. And to what we were doing, it was like we had done, I had done a lot of really nice things. Like I, you know, book people in the early days of control that, you know, maybe no one had heard of them. I mean, like Don Diablo is a guy that we booked several times at like, You know in the early days and like it was a no brainer for him When he wanted to do this event when everyone else came knocking at his door It was a no brainer for him to come play for us at that point because it was like You guys want me now But these are the only guys that were willing to book me when I wasn't worth the tickets that i'm worth now so like doing those types of favors in the early days really paid dividends to the agency too because You know chris like said something to me Which was Really sweet in the early days, which is, you know, of course you're doing this. Like, of course you're doing creative. This makes total sense, and like, it was such a nice thing to say that he, that he had trusted because he had, you know, seen other things that I'd done in other parts of my career, and it was like, they wanted to reimagine the Black Book label, and you know, that was like a huge jumping off point for us on the creative side. And it won us Fisher, and it won us John Summit, and it won us all these different things, And I, I am so grateful to, to that team because they didn't have to bet on, on me in this venture is a new venture. It was completely different from anything else I'd ever done. And they were willing to bet on me, and what I was doing. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm eternally grateful for, for that because it's really like helped to turn the agency into what it is today. We have. We have 20 clients currently. We have a, we have a massive roster and it's all, it's a bunch of different things and a bunch of different arenas and, you know, but it started with that, uh, that tipping point moment. Yeah.

Nik: 49:29

necessarily love that term because, You know, it's more about like that deeper level of networking is building friendships. We want to work with our friends, you know, and you've, you've, you've been a master at that, you know, you've been planting seeds and developing real relationships, real friendships for 10, 15, I don't know, probably almost 20 years now, right? and getting to see them come to fruition is, is so cool and so beautiful. And, you know, same thing with me, you know, for seven years working at Icon, all I did was just help people for fucking seven

Ryan Jaso: 49:59

Yeah. And he didn't ask for

Nik: 50:01

it's, no, no, it's all,

Ryan Jaso: 50:03

There was no expectation of, Oh, I'm going to get you later. Right. That was That that's the huge point. That's a huge point here. It's Not like do a bunch of nice things and like eventually you'll expect to get something back It was like no, there was no expectation. Yeah,

Nik: 50:17

It's genuine, man. It's genuine. And it is, you know, I, I get super woo woo on here all the time, but it's like, it's energy, it's like the law of reciprocity, like whatever you give is what you're going to receive. If you're giving love, if you're giving good energy, you're putting out good vibes, all that shit's going to come back to you. You don't know how, and it might not come back from even that specific person, but like the universe is going to bring it back to you, you know, it's just karma, really.

Ryan Jaso: 50:40

Yeah,

Nik: 50:43

The importance of asking questions because it actually brings up a memory that I, that I share all the time. I was driving with you one day in, uh, in your black Mercedes. I remember you had that, you had that black Mercedes and Jake Udell called us and I am like the biggest fan of Jake Udell. I think he is like such, I think he's one of the most like genius. Managers and entrepreneurs and just business people like in the whole fucking game, but he's the guy behind Cruella He was behind zoo galant like he launched a lot of great artists and now he's I don't know He's doing like some crazy tech stuff. But anyways huge fan of him, but I remember him calling us When he was just a little baby manager He was just getting started and I remember him Calling you and and I think you had the speakerphone on in the car and he was just asking questions who's like Jason like what are these blog things? And like, how do I get, you know, my artist on a blog and who should I talk to? And he was just relentlessly just picking your brain. And it always stuck with me. Cause I was like, Oh, like I just saw him. Succeed so quickly going from like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing to being like I'm a powerhouse manager making like millions of dollars with my clients now and that always stuck with me because I was like Oh this this guy was just asking questions and just picking brains, you know, and it's cool that you bring that up because sometimes I think we're scared to ask Stupid questions, you know, or we feel like Hesitant because we might look like we don't know what we're talking about. And the truth is, yeah, we fucking don't until we start asking questions. You know, it's like, the music business is complicated. Ask as many questions as you can. You know? So I

Ryan Jaso: 52:16

And who and who cares if you don't know like what's the worst? I mean, it's kind of like I always hit is like the worst thing is anything I do if I reach out to someone is like or I like, you know we place a big bet on like trying to send a proposal to some huge artists or We we pitch in on some sort of like mass massive pitch. It's like Worst thing that someone's gonna tell me is no and I can live with that You seven days a week. I do not care. Like, okay, no. Okay. You don't want to do it. No problem. No problem. And if most of the time that stuff actually motivates me, it's like, okay, you said, no, what am I doing that they don't view me on this level? Or what am I doing? That's, that's, that, that I can be seen in the same context that they're seeing whatever other agencies pitching on this. That's like an internal thing. It's like, I'm going to internalize that and go, okay, well, how do we be better versus, you know, getting mad and frustrated that, Well, they don't see me that way. It's like, no, no, no. What kind of self reflection can I do to be seen on the same level as some of these other agencies or some of these other people so I can be in that conversation? That was like huge for me. Yeah.

Nik: 53:24

nose, that's also an indicator. That you're doing something wrong. And there should be some adjustments made. Because that shows that you're not asking enough. That shows that you're probably playing it safe on the sidelines. And you're not actually, as I would say, in the arena. you should be getting no's. You should be getting rejection. Because if you're not, you're not playing the fucking game. You're not playing all out.

Ryan Jaso: 53:45

Yeah. I a hundred percent agree with you. You talk about the, the woo woo thing is like, I, I'm a huge believer in. energy and being, intentional with what you're doing. Um, best book. I think I, we went back and forth on this, but principles like is such a great business book. I don't care if you're an artist. I don't care. Cause there's a personal side there. He talks about his, personal principles. And he also talks about business principles, but he talks about like being transparent, radically transparent and being intentional with what you're doing. And it is so true is like, if you're constantly. Being yourself and being intentional, like good things will happen and like, you know, Life's not always gonna be sunshine and roses Like if you don't have those bad moments those hard moments If you don't have those moments where you're like, is this gonna work? Am I gonna make it if you're not having those moments? Like you haven't hit that point of like those are testing moments. Those are those are the parts of like Those are the big tests. Like, can you continue to push forward? Are you going to take this moment? How do you react in this moment? Because it's really easy for things like and listen, like we have companies go through times where you lose a client or like something bad happens and you go. Wow, instead of complaining, instead of getting mad at that client, instead of like getting frustrated with the way like, what did we do wrong? How do we be better? How do we make sure this doesn't happen again? And let's take those necessary steps. It's like I always tell people with this company or with anything, it's like, I can't tell you every single time someone gave me a compliment or every time we got a win with the agency, but I can sure as shit tell you every single mistake I made that was especially the expensive ones. I can tell you those because those are the painful reminders. Those are the things that are drilled in the back of your head. That you will hopefully never make again. You'll learn from those. And those are things that you use to hopefully grow from.

Nik: 55:39

And that is such a great example of what I would call the headliner mindset, right? Not falling into victimhood, where it's like, oh, poor me. This didn't work out. I got fucked over. Whatever little victim bullshit we want to fall into, instead, be like, no, this is a lesson. Every moment of pain is an opportunity for growth. Every fuck up is an opportunity to learn something and to become better, to become stronger, to become, you know, more seasoned. And that's all perspective. Like you just get to choose, right? Do you want to, do you want to be living in or do you want to live in victimhood? Right? So it's a great, a great perspective to adopt and to embody.

Ryan Jaso: 56:16

Yeah. It's, it's, it's really everything because it's the same, like you're talking about mindset. It's like, if you have that mindset that like, you know, this, this didn't work out, no one signed my record. No one wants to sign me to a management deal. Yeah. In that moment, that's that inflection point. You can quit in that moment or you can go, okay What do I need to do differently because maybe my it's my approach Maybe the way that i've been doing things isn't the right way ask those questions call those people figure those things out because a lot of times especially in today's era like not to Give a hard time to this generation but a lot of times I feel like people experience like a first no or like a first like You first sign of strife and they go, okay, well, I'm just, I'm not going to do that anymore. Maybe I'll just try something else. And it's like, those are the moments, like they say, what is an iron sharpens iron? Like that doesn't happen. You don't do that from like going through the easy moments. That's easy.

Nik: 57:15

yep, that's where your character is developed, for sure, yeah, yeah man, well I know that you have had a countless amount of those moments, on your journey and have You forged an incredible character in the process. And I really couldn't be more honored to have you join us today. And, you know, just one more time. And so, so grateful for, you know, just the, the role that you've played on my journey and the trajectory of my life that you have, helped, uh, you know, just, just, Get me to where I am today. And, uh, it's really, really cool to reconnect with you and just to see where life has taken us, you know, like 10 years ago, we wouldn't, we would have no fucking idea that we would be doing these things, you know? And it's, I think so much of it is just like, just keep following the breadcrumbs, right? Follow the, follow the passion, follow the excitement. yeah, it's, uh, it's been a fun journey, man. Really, really good to see you. Great to reconnect with you and thank you for hopping on

Ryan Jaso: 58:11

I well, thank you for having me. I'm super proud of you. I'm stoked on everything you've that you've been able to accomplish and I love that. You've you've been doing this six years. Now you you cross my invisible imaginary line threshold of of five years that makes that makes things really click and go and I'm, I'm, I'm stoked to see that you're doing what you love and you, you found your, your, your place where you're crushing it. So that's awesome. And I appreciate the kind words and I have nothing but kind things to say about you. It was a pleasure working with you then. And yeah, I'm stoked to be here and I'd love to continue this conversation in another time.

Nik: 58:48

Yeah, we'll do it. We'll do a round two for sure. Appreciate you, brother.

Ryan Jaso: 58:52

Yeah, you too, man. Thank you.