JOE WISEMAN (Insomniac Music Group) - 360 Degrees of Artist Development

Joe Wiseman is the director of Insomniac Music Group which includes more than 20 of the biggest record labels in dance music. From Insomniac's own brands like Insomniac Records, Bassrush, Factory 93 and Lost in Dreams, to helping run artist labels like Slander’s Heaven Sent and Dr. Fresch’s House Call Records, they are putting out a constant stream of hits and building up the next generation of superstars.

In this episode we talk about the Discovery Project, what it takes to get signed, the ecosystem of Insomniac’s artist development efforts and how to market your music.

Follow Joe and Insomniac Music Group here:
https://www.instagram.com/wiseman.j
https://www.instagram.com/insomniacmgrp
https://www.insomniacmusicgroup.com

And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Transcript

Track 1: 0:00

if you think you're gonna put out a song and not do anything, just like go upload and have a go out and it'll work. I mean, it has happened for some people. I'm not gonna lie, but I. it's just not the reality of it. You have to put the time and effort into getting into the right DJ's, hands artwork and visuals on point. Creating some content around the release, whether it's footage, live clips, footage, or just meme kind of content. getting those, co-sign from some of those blogs or playlists or YouTube channels. All those things will add up and help the song grow

Nik: 0:42

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset podcast. Today's guest is responsible for helping put out some of the biggest songs in dance music. He is the director of Insomniac Music Group, which includes over 20 labels in their ecosystem, including Insomniac Records Base Rush Factory, 93, lost in Dreams and More. This is Joe Wiseman,

Track 1: 1:05

Yoyo. What's going on?

Nik: 1:08

What's up brother? Welcome to the show. So stoked to have you on.

Track 1: 1:13

Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here.

Nik: 1:15

Yeah, it's been a long time, man, and I was trying to take a trip down memory lane to remember like where we got connected in the first place, which I believe was through the discovery project.

Track 1: 1:29

I believe it was, and this was, uh, probably a decade ago. So hopefully we remember.

Nik: 1:35

Yeah. Well it was, it was funny. I, I think I was, uh,'cause I, I was, in my head I was thinking that you were working with the Discovery Project.'cause I was working to help launch it and was kind of some of the muscle behind it. But you were actually one of the artists that

Track 1: 1:50

I wa I was,

Nik: 1:52

Yeah. So I

Track 1: 1:53

Okay.

Nik: 1:53

that part of it. For some reason I was like, we're, I thought we were working together with Insomniac. But this was before you were working. For Insomniac, you were producing, you were a, an an artist that submitted and won the discovery project.

Track 1: 2:07

exactly. But later on then we did end up working together on it from a business side or the, the industry side. But yes, I did. Uh, I, and I forgot about that. You just reminded me that I was trying to remember how we connected, uh, in the first place. But yeah, I, uh, I was a DJ before I got into the whole, uh, the LA running a label side of things and entered the discovery project in 2013. So it was like one year into discovery project. and won it for EDC Las Vegas. So I think I was the same class as, say my name, Dr. Fresh, maybe Cazo, or he might've been the year before, but, all the homies were, were on it together. And yeah, won it played. I was in a group with, uh, with two other people, uh, and played Vegas and. Toured a little bit and then, uh, soon realized I, uh, I wanted to get a, a job job in the industry, on the industry side of it. the artist thing was, it was fun and I still feel like an artist in a certain way, but definitely, uh, prefer being the the guy behind the guy or the girl in the DJ booth. Uh, it's a, it's a good feeling to, to be there. Yeah.

Nik: 3:11

What was it about being an artist that made you decide that wasn't for you?

Track 1: 3:17

for me, I'm a little bit of a home homebody kind of guy, just like chilling on the couch. I think the touring, the touring side of it, I just, uh, I'm not a huge airplane. person, you know, flying every weekend. It's a lot. So it takes a lot of endurance and energy and, it's a whole different way of living. I tasted a little bit of it and did a little bit of it, like when I, soon after I graduated from college and I was like, you know what? I think I'd rather be. The guy behind the scenes, not necessarily the DJ on stage with, with my hands up. So it was just a decision I made and, uh, I, uh, thought about it carefully'cause I did enjoy being the DJ and, you know, the center of retention and all that. But, looking back at it, I'm really happy with the kind of route I chose and where I'm at now with it and, and, and being able to still feel like I'm there on the stage with whoever, whoever's performing, but just in a different kind of way.

Nik: 4:10

Yeah, man. It's interesting how we all kind of find. Our place, you know? And I think that role of being on the road and touring, I mean it's, it's tough. Like you gotta love it. You gotta be a road dog, you gotta be down for that adventure. And I know a lot of artists that are like, man, I love making music and I love being in the studio and I. Hate having to go on the road and tour, but this is how I make my money. so

Track 1: 4:37

That's how you make the money.

Nik: 4:38

can seem very glamorous from the outside, but yeah, when that's, it becomes your job and you're doing that shit every weekend, it's, uh, the, it's, it's not always as glamorous as people, you know,

Track 1: 4:48

when you get to a certain point, it can, it can be glamorous, but yeah, it's, it's a grind in the beginning, where I was at at that time was that, you know, we were still still an opener support act and, it was long drives and. back of the plane type of, uh, situation by the bathroom. So it was not the, uh, the p the PJ experience that you see on Instagram and stuff. so yeah. it is a grind and you have to be ready for it and want to do it, you know, and no matter who you are, where you start, you kind of, that's where you, that's, that's how you begin touring anyway. And, my immune system wasn't, isn't great. So I just kind of, you know, stayed out.

Nik: 5:22

I've had it suggested to me to be a tour manager, to go on the road, to be like a, tour manager slash life coach, you know, while I'm, while I'm out there just to help people keep their head screwed on straight. And I'm like, man, that's a brilliant idea, but I really like to like get up in my own bed and go to the gym in the morning and have a certain lifestyle. So I'm like, I, I love that idea. I think I'd be down. You just have to pay me a lot of fucking money to do it.

Track 1: 5:49

Exactly. Exactly. But anyway, that's how we initially met. I completely forgot. You just reminded me. I was like, I, I knew we, I knew there was an early connection early on when I first like, kind of got my, uh, foot in the door in the scene. thank you for reminding

Nik: 6:03

For sure, for sure. And then, you know, the discovery project.'cause I, I came in when just the vision for it was still blossoming and it was this idea of like, Hey, let's create an ecosystem where we can develop artists. You know, Pascal's throwing these incredible shows at Insomnia, putting on these huge events. And then there was this bigger vision of like, how can we find new talent? And foster them to also now get on these stages and, and to kind of help support that artist's journey in a different way. Which the Discovery project was kind of the beginning of that. Like, let's do this talent scout competition, and then the winners of it will, you know, get to play. and then the label came later. I, I wasn't around when the label started, How did you get involved with the, uh, go from being a Discovery Project winner to then getting into, being involved with the label side of things? Because you've kind of been there Pretty much from the, from the beginning of it, right?

Track 1: 6:59

Yes. Yeah. I'm nine years in at Insomniac now, so almost it'll be 10 next year. so actually after, after winning the Discovery project, about a year later, ended up working on the Discovery Project. So, made my way, still worked at one company in between, uh, part of Live Nation, but then made my way to Insomniac. kind of took the lead on discovery project, I think after you left, and a few of the others involved. kind of rebranded it and, and shifted it towards being a little bit more of a, community, platform for artists and not just a contest. So we had a, you know, a blog aspect to it. Uh, actually launched like this. At that time we were just releasing, uh, stuff on SoundCloud, like free downloads. So a label esque type of situation. And then, injected into like the radio platform that we were building at the time. Insomnia Radio, night Owl Radio, which is Pascal's radio show. so I was helping with Discovery Project and then also helping with the launch of those, projects with Pasquale. And then at the time, actually, there was a label, it was being run over at Interscope. It was part of a major label system. so no one in, no one in the o actual insomnia office was running the label at the time. So Pascal and I kind of bonded working on these other projects, and he, uh, I think he. He respected and, and, thought I had the ear that what it, what he would want for the label to head up the label. and kind of gave me the chance to take the lead there. So brought the label kind of back in house. started running Insomniac records, uh, internally signing dope, cool undergrounds, you know, crazy stuff at the time. Definitely not major label style stuff. and just switching kind of the trajectory of Insomniac records. So this is like 20 15, 20 16. And then eventually we actually went independent in 2017 and that's when we were able to launch the music group. So in, so it was just Inso records, a single label for a few years, and then the music group really launched. So now it's almost, you know, we're six, seven years in. that's when we were able to launch all those different labels. So base were a stream state. we did joint ventures with Fisher, Chris Lake, slander launch, uh, artist imprint with them. a bunch of other things, you know, we were able to expand it a lot after then. Yeah, so that was kind of the, the year after year kind of, uh, history of how it all kind of unfolded.

Nik: 9:13

I didn't even know until today. I got on the website just to do a little research and I'm like, I pulled it up. I'm like, holy shit. There's literally over 20 labels underneath this umbrella of Insomniac Music Group. I knew. I knew of like maybe like four or five, but I was like, oh yeah, slanders label is under here. And I saw a group chat, gestures thing and It's pretty

Track 1: 9:32

Wax my teeth.

Nik: 9:33

Yeah. Yeah. Super, super cool, ecosystem that you guys have created and, I'm kind of curious about, you know, how does that play a role in the bigger chess game of Insomniac as well, right? Like you, like, I'm curious about, The bigger picture of artist development here really?'cause it's like you guys have the whole thing, you have the label to put the music out on. You also have a stage to put the artist out on, so you know, are you guys helping facilitate some of that, development from just putting tracks out to also actually being able to get out there and play shows too?

Track 1: 10:09

Totally. the reason why we created all these individual brands and imprints is'cause they have their own audiences attached to'em. So, you know, we saw how other dance labels their models were and it was like multi genre trying to put all as much out. Under one umbrella as possible, but within one brand that's marketed a certain way. And we, um, based off of the infrastructure kind of insomniac had, which we, I was lucky to walk into that situation, is that we have all these individual brands that are catered towards different audiences. The Base Rush fans, the fact 2 93 fans, the Dream Save fans, audiences, they're all different. It's all dance music, it's all electronic music, but they're all different. And they're all different ticket buyers or different audiences. You can, can see it at the shows. and so, you know, it just sparked the idea of rather, rather than putting, try to put everything out under insomniac records, just one label, one name. Let's put it out during, under these different labels. And part of that why we did that was also for the development side. It was. You know, initially these, these labels are really meant to be almost served like as a marketing arm for the festivals or shows or concerts and clubs. Now they've grown to be like legitimate labels in the game, But yeah, initially it was like only about focus on artist development. Who can we find who's new, who's fresh? Who can we bring in and, and grow them internally? By using, you know, utilizing the resources we have here, releasing their song, putting it on the radio show, giving them a support slot at the clubs, and then working their way up to maybe, co lining something at the clubs or concerts, finding their way into the festivals, building it that way, strategizing from all angles. So literally almost like a 360 deal, but we're not. Predatory or anything like that where we're like trying to, uh, take advantage of artists or anything like that. It's, it's really about mainly giving them all the opportunities that, that are out there that are possible internally here, which is a lot.'cause in Somc is a, it's a big, uh, big enterprise

Nik: 11:58

yeah. It's powerhouse. Yeah. and what, and what is your role as the, specifically as the director, the director of the, the whole thing. So what's your day-to-day look like? What are you, I. Helping with and responsible for over there.

Track 1: 12:13

a lot like over, you know, overseeing my whole team. You know, we have, uh, whole team of people working across the operations of the labels, marketing, social PR, promo. sync and licensing publishing, you know, making sure that the team has all the tools they need to be successful. I in particular focus in on a few of the labels on the a and r side, and, and make sure we're signing the best new talent, our familiar talent to our fans out there and, and putting out those, uh, those records in the right way. and then also leaning on the team here internally, either the brand managers or the town buyers. For specific brands, having those conversations with them to make sure that we're also bringing in artists under those specific, uh, labels. So like a base rush or a factory, stuff where I'm not necessarily the, the head of those brands, but working with the heads to make sure we're signing what we think is the best for, for them. and then strategizing, you know, again in that 360 way to how can we plug it into the radio, how can we plug it into the show side? Events, this, that, this, that. kind of tying everything together into one, you know, hopefully a, a, a solid machine that, uh, helps everyone out and really just focusing on doing whatever we can to, to help out artists. You know, it's like very, very, we try to be as artist friendly, artist focused, like. We wanna empower, empower them, give'em the tools they need, and, uh, make sure the records are successful. And then that leads to more and more people wanting to see them play live and, uh, making those shows good too. And yeah, all, pretty much, a lot, a lot of different

Nik: 13:46

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, that's, that's something I always loved about my, you know. F fairly brief, but I'd say intimate time of working, you know, with Pascal and helping launch the discovery project. You know, getting to be kind of in the inner circle for for a minute was the authentic, genuine desire to contribute to. Building this scene and helping artists grow and throwing just the best shows possible. Like, I got to, you know, it's like you never really know what goes on behind the scenes. It's like, are are these people here just to like, make a bunch of fucking money? And it's like, well, that is a consequence of it. But the, the real, I'd say, you know, at least from what I saw, the, the, the real genuine desire there is like, how do we throw. The best events and spread The most love and help people like grow and thrive in their, in their lane, you know, as, as artists and also as fans. And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's cool to see what it's grown into since then in the last decade. Like just that, like what was just an idea really now has become a, a really strong ecosystem that I think is fueled by that, genuine desire to, to. Help you know the best music rise and the best artists rise.

Track 1: 15:01

Totally. I mean, I think why Insomniac has such a hardcore following and, and fan base, Is because of the investment we put into the product we're putting out, you know? So, I think people know that and they see that and, you know, they know we're not cheaping out on, on things and we try and put the best show together possible. I mean, you can tell by the stages, you know, at EDCI mean that, that it's, it's a lot, you know. so. So, yeah, I think, uh, we try and, and make sure everyone here, everyone who works in Insomniac, we're putting our heads together to make sure that we're delivering, you know, the best possible record song, club, show, concert, festival, whatever it might be. make sure that everyone can fall in love and would wanna come back again or listen again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nik: 15:48

So let's talk about what it takes to get signed.'cause I think that's a question that a lot of my audience is probably wondering. A lot of people are out there, they're grinding on their tracks, they're building their audience, learning how to, you know, create their brand and get their stuff out there. So, you know, obviously getting to have the support of a powerhouse like the Insomniac machine. Behind you would, would, would be so cool and such a dream for so many people, you know? What are you guys looking for when you sign artists and what makes you say yes to bringing somebody on?

Track 1: 16:27

That's a great question and we get asked it, we get asked it a lot. There's a lot of artists out there, you know, and a lot of, uh, a lot of demos all the time. I mean, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and

Nik: 16:39

How many, how many demos are you guys going through? Like a week, would you say?

Track 1: 16:43

it's, uh, it's endless. It's a lot.

Nik: 16:46

Yeah. Yeah. So what makes somebody, yeah, what makes somebody stand out, out of the, the endless sea of people pitching you every day?

Track 1: 16:55

you would think I would have always the, the, the right answer for that, being the one that's kind of heading up a and r process here. But, you know, the music needs to be good. Obviously, first and foremost, like that's the most important thing I. Don't wanna take that away from anyone. and also, you know it when we get to that point where we're listening to the music, no matter who you are, I mean, I've turned down songs from some crazy names. that needs to be first and foremost, you know, your, the best thing that you can, that you could work on and put out and feel comfortable with sharing. but. On the other side of it too, is that we look, do, look at the brands that the artists are, you know, the artist brands and what they're putting out, what they're marketing, what they're doing on socials, what they're doing on the show side, the live side, what they're creating beyond just the song, the actual, like MP three and Wave that they're sharing with us. You know, it's important'cause that's, that's how songs are marketed now. It's not just. An audio, audio, you know, experience. It's a whole visual audio, marketing, this whole 360 experience is what I would call it. So, you know, we look at that with the artists and if we feel like this. Whoever it might be has who submitted or is in conversations with us, has, you know, that little oomph, you know, and that little extra we'll get behind it and we'll pump in whatever, you know, whatever they need from our end to help grow it even more. so it's really about, you know. Showcasing to the best of your ability. Everything that you can put on the table, not just the music, but everything. Like, this is my plan here, this is my plan there on the live side. I want to, you know, go on a tour here. I want to do this with on, on a mix series. I wanna hop on podcasts every week with you. you. know, things like that. It does, it all comes together and it, and it helps in the end. It will help your music and it will help get your. Sound out to more and more people. So You know, we do look at, we obviously mu like, again, the music is the most important, but we do look at all these other things as well. When we're thinking about who to sign or who to bring on or who to get behind as an artist,

Nik: 18:59

Yeah. Yeah. And that makes sense'cause there's a lot of great music out there and that's, that's the entry point, right. Is having. A great song. Uh, and then what do you have beyond that? The thing that I heard there was also really having like a vision and a game plan. It sounds like having a, having a bigger picture idea of what you're really trying to build, rather than just like, Hey, I want to put this song out. Like, okay, you're, you're thinking,

Track 1: 19:24

We have the ability, yeah, we have the ability to do that. We do. Sometimes it's a song of so good, we just put it out. But if we're doing like a little bit of a longer term plan with an artist, we do wanna hear what their vision is like. What's your three month, six month, 12 month plan? What are you gonna do? What labels are you releasing on? We actually do mostly non-exclusive deals. Um, unlike a lot of labels, um. I think it's the best way to work with an artist. We don't wanna force them to only release with us. That's just not our motto. I don't, I think it's not really artist friendly at all. Some songs fit better on different labels or. You know, whatever it might be. So what's your plan? Are you gonna release, you know, two, two this year on Blackbook, you know, one on, you know, repopulate, catch and release, whatever it might be. And then, you know, three with us. And then how can we, you know, work, work around on the festival side or show side? What shows tie into those releases? so really creating that whole plan that works together, that will then, then you go back and you say, wow, we had that conversation a year ago, and then you're like, everything kind of unfolded the way we wanted to. So, you know, just, just throwing darts at a dartboard. It, honestly, it's, it's sometimes works for a select view, but I'm always more about creating that. Calendar that schedule that, that, uh, that process. And I've seen it worked on a lot of people, like the mouthpieces of the world, the John Summits. I mean those that was very strategic about how they grew or how they were growing as artists, lp, GOB two, um, it was a lot of thought and process went into how they were releasing, what shows they were doing and all that type of stuff. So, yeah.

Nik: 21:01

Yeah, and that's, I think that's really great for the audience to hear, because a lot of times we get caught up just looking 30 days ahead, right? Like, maybe I have a goal of I'm, I'm just trying to put out a track, like, you know, every month or so. But it's like. I think a lot of people are maybe just finishing a song and then putting that one song out and then working on their next song and then putting that next song out. And they're only just going in this couple weeks at a time, uh, process as opposed to really looking at, yeah, what am I doing over the next 12 months? And do I have, you know, I've heard a lot of people talking about the importance of having a quantity of music done, because then you can plan out like, cool, I got. 10 songs done. I got 20 songs done. Now I can map out my year and obviously, you know, keep making music. But it, it seems like the more kind of higher level artists and managers and labels that I talk to, they're usually Yeah. Sitting on a bit more of a bank of tracks and then having these longer term, yes, six to 12 month. Game plans that they're unfolding, which really, I mean, this is, you're, you're, this is when you're stepping from stepping out of just, I'm an artist that's just putting out music, like you said, throwing darts at the board versus I'm running a business and I have a business plan and this is my product that I'm selling to the marketplace and this is the plan that we're executing. I'm curious for you, when you're talking to. Artists are they coming to you oftentimes with a bank of tracks and you're, are you talking about more than one song? Or, or, you know what I mean? Is, are people just like, Hey, here's the one song I want to sign, or is it more like, Hey, here's my 10 songs and let's create something together?

Track 1: 22:37

It's more of the, uh, here 10 songs. What do you think is the best plan? I would say the, uh, the bigger names. They're like, here's the one song,

Nik: 22:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Track 1: 22:47

here's the one song I got for you guys. but yeah, a lot, a lot of the acts we're working with, they, again, most, I would say 95% of the acts we're working with are development or, you know, or building them along the way. It's more, you know, I think they now see what. We can do here at Insomniac, and how we can build an artist in a lot of different ways. So I think they feel more comfortable sharing more music to get that feedback from us internally, from my, from my team and, everyone else in the building about what they, what we think might be the best strategy, like those, those three songs. And then, and then pairing with those three shows, you know what I'm saying? So creating that, that long-term plan with them, that, that what, what, what we can provide here. And again, I always tell everyone insomnia can't do everything. Insomnia is a big. Big company, like we're the biggest dance brand in, in America, if not the world. But, you know, you do have to work with more than just inec again. So going back to that non-exclusive deals on our side, work with other labels, it's, it's the best thing you can do or work with other promoters. Um, use this as a resource to get those, you know, to lock in those other deals and situations. But you need to, uh, look also beyond insomniac to create that plan for yourself.

Nik: 23:53

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Cool. And so what's the process for somebody if they had a little catalog of music and they wanted to, you know, pitch themselves, like what, how does that. Best look for an artist. What's the demo pitching process for you guys?

Track 1: 24:13

So it can go about a few different ways. If you have, if you have a manager or even an agent who knows us and is familiar with, has worked with us before on other artists, you know, a direct email from them is a great setup. You know, it's like, it's a, it's a co-sign from someone that we've already worked with. So. obviously we don't wanna rule out people that don't have any of those relationships. We want to give them the opportunity too. So we do have, you know, submission portals online that you can submit to. We do try to get to it, but honestly, the platform that we do push those artists that, you know, like, oh, I don't know anyone who knows anyone Insomniac, uh, is Discovery Project. Uh, we want, you know, submit to those. We run, like last year I think we did, I think we did 15 or 16 contests, and this year we're gonna do more. so a

Nik: 24:57

So you guys are doing a lot. So, so the contests aren't just for shows anymore. when we started, it was maybe like two or three a year, and it was like, just for like the big festivals to get like a slot on a, on a festival kind of a thing. So what if you're doing that many now? What's that look like?

Track 1: 25:14

Well, insomnia's doing a lot more concerts and festivals and stuff, but um, we do, yeah, we attach it to all, pretty much all the festivals. So now you have, you know, your countdowns, your Beyond Wonderland, SoCal, your Beyond Wonderland Gorge, your, EDC, Vegas, EDC, Orlando, you know, so it does add up. but then we are starting to, we are going to start teasing it at the clubs too. probably in the next, in the, I don't know, the team's working on it, so I don't wanna give an exact date. but you definitely think it, it makes sense for us. We tested it at, uh, EDC Orlando about doing discovery project at the clubs. so that's something we want to implement as well. And I. yeah, honestly, that's in, that's just going back to your original question. That's, you know, we, we suggest people enter that. It's a great opportunity for your, your music does get listened to. I know people are like, oh, you don't listen to my song. Sometimes we don't log into the SoundCloud thing. Every song is listened to. It's a great opportunity to get your, your, your track, heard by the ARS here. but yeah, I definitely suggest that. And then also the going go, also going back to like having someone sending in for you. Doing the best you can to the best of your ability to build a team around you that can help make those connections for you. So, you know, you don't need a manager off the bat. Not suggesting that everyone needs a manager. Having a manager though does help a lot. That manager knows someone who knows someone who, who knows that one of the ars here. It does help. You know, or having an agent. I saw Ben was on your, uh, podcast, you know, having Ben Hogan shouting us, saying, yo, check out this demo. it helps a lot. So not everyone's able to get those, you know, opportunities with those, with those people. So I understand, but if you can start slowly and build your way up to that, it's always gonna help.

Nik: 26:50

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I can vouch for listening to all the demos because I remember we would sit there for hours and listen to 300 songs in a row of, of. Discovery project submissions. And the one thing I'll say about that I'd, I'd love to hear your insight too, of when you're listening to demos and you hear so many in a row that oftentimes just kind of, you know, there's a lot of stuff that kind of sounds the same when, when. Somebody has something that's different. It stands out so drastically, almost because of the ear fatigue of like, all right, I've just been listening to all of these demos, and all of a sudden somebody just does something that's a little left of center and they're using a sound that you haven't heard, or it's a, it's like just breaking the rules a little bit. Like, oh shit. Who's this person? Who is this? I, I gotta go. I'm gonna go check them out now. At least that was always my, like, that was always my thing. I was like, I was always excited just to hear something different because it catches your ear, you know? It's so obvious.

Track 1: 27:59

don't, you'd almost think that it'd be like the opposite. Like, oh, you're, you're, you're burnt out. But you do, you know, just to be honest and laying it out, they're being tri out. There is a lot of demos that are, that's not good, not great. You know, so, so, so you do hear, when you hear something that it is good. You do hear it, you know, more so than even when we're doing our, like. Normal label and our sessions with like legitimate artists when we're listening to 10 to 20 artists and they're all like, pretty good. But like there's one that stands out a little bit more to be signed to like the main label or something like that. With Discovery Project. Yeah. I mean, if your song, if, if it's good, we'll hear it and we'll know it's, you know, it's good. It is hard though'cause there's only one or two winners, you know, per competition. So, you know, it's a tough thing to, to, uh. To break through the crowd and be the, and hit that number one spot. But, uh, you know, when you do, it's worth it, you know? I think so.

Nik: 28:47

Yeah. All right. Let me ask you this, there's obviously the. Genres that are very established and killing it right now. Like techno is huge, right? Like everybody loves techno, house music is obviously, obviously killing it. What's next? Is there a genre or a sound that you see, like if you're looking out into the ocean and you can see the wave coming, that's like way out there. You know, do you have a feeling of what's next or just what is maybe surfacing and, and bubbling that isn't quite at that huge place yet?

Track 1: 29:28

Yeah. I think it's taken a really long time. Um, but I think drum bass is getting very, you know, it's becoming a, a big deal here in the States finally. Obviously it's been an international thing forever, but just never was able to really break through. And I think artists, I. These newer, uh, German bass acts are doing, or are make, are producing in the right way. And some of the older chasing status and stuff like that, they're just, the way that they're making these tracks is just a little bit more accessible for like the US audience. And I think that's, it's gonna have a huge moment here in the next year or two. can definitely see, see that infiltrating the bass scene, the bass music scene,

Nik: 30:05

Yeah. What, what label do you guys do drum and bass on? Is that bass

Track 1: 30:09

bass rush, bass rush. Yeah.

Nik: 30:11

I'm so glad that was your answer.'cause like this last year, I totally, I never liked Drummond Bass and, and then this last year, I've just become obsessed with it. I fucking love Drummond Bass now. Yeah. It's, I, I'm, I agree with you on that. It's coming. It's fucking cool.

Track 1: 30:24

and I've been into German bass forever, since I, you know, since I, I got into this stuff, so I'm, I'm happy to see it too. I just can tell that the way that the, the productions. It's just a little bit more like us friendly. I don't know what exactly that means, but it just, it just sounds like, like the US audience can get behind it a little bit more now.

Nik: 30:41

I think I'm a great example of that. I never really liked it until this last year. I don't know what it is. It's like yeah, the, the, the, the beefiness of the production is like a little different, you know? A little

Track 1: 30:49

Big, Big, vocals.

Nik: 30:52

Yeah. It's like a lot of poppy kind of elements to it, like, yeah, fuck yeah, All right.

Track 1: 30:58

So that's, that's a big one. Then I'll give you one from the other side of the spectrum and I can't give everything away or else that's giving away our secrets. But, uh,

Nik: 31:05

I get it.

Track 1: 31:06

on the house, on the house side of things, I definitely think the global sound, the Afro house, Latin House has had its thing for a while now, but just like the global house music sounds, I don't wanna just label it just like Afro or whatever it might be. I think it's, I like to call it just like global house sounding music. Uh, it's definitely. Already on the rise. It's been on the rise. Again, this is something us, it always hits late. So like, can see what's what's moving in in certain places. honestly, I see like the kind music guys. They're like the new Swedish House mafiaa in a way. you know, what they're, what they're doing is, is pretty awesome. Black coffee, uh, another example. you know, that, that sound, that style. I think people, some people will just like. Grow out of like the aggressive phases and wanna like chill out and lax and like, you know, have that poolside music. And I think that's, uh, that's hitting that audience and, and it's growing, you know, a lot of these tech house fans are kind of getting more into that or the base house fans, so it's a huge scene as well. And I see it, uh, also coming over here. It's been, it's already a thing in Europe and elsewhere, Ibiza and stuff like that. But it's definitely, it's making its way here now with a lot of artists. Making, you know, doing stuff in that, in that

Nik: 32:19

Yeah. uh, I have a, a, a old friend, a good buddy. Sean, who has a project called and Friends, I don't know if you've ever seen them before, but they, they've been collaborating with artists from Africa and it's like house music, but they're bringing in these African artists to sing and it's. Hopping, it's killing it. Like their social media's blown up and then they're touring. Not in the states, but they're touring in like Morocco and all these like really, really cool, almost like burner parties, but they're massive that are happening in, in, in Europe and these other places. And it's like, it's pretty fucking cool to see. Like, and I love it. The music is, is really, uh. It's really fun and happy and I don't know. It's a, it's a different, it's a different vibe than, yeah. different yeah. Than the heavy, like the, you know, the heavier kind of techno that's just like dark grave warehouse shit. This is like a fun, uh, a fun energy. So yeah, they've been doing really

Track 1: 33:15

Right. And just the percussion and the different elements of these songs that touches to like the core of like where music started and stuff like that. Drums, you know, focusing on that type of stuff. So, and just like beautiful melodies and it, it's, it's definitely a. It's definitely a thing now, and I think people, you know, we go in waves of what, you know, we want and feel we're in aggressiveness or we want the laid back stuff or, you know, so I think, uh, these different genres are hitting these different audiences in the right way at this time. But there's other there's other ones too, that are starting to pop too, like the Euro dance stuff. Obviously it's doing its thing now and, uh. Trance skying is having a, a bit of a moment now too. And, breaks again is kind of having a little resurgence here. So a lot of, there's a lot of sub drivers that, and that could go on and on, but, yeah. Yeah.

Nik: 34:02

Yeah. Well, let's, let's talk about. How do you make a song successful? not everybody is gonna be lucky enough to get signed to. Insomniac or necessarily have the budget that that insomniac would have. But I would love to hear what kind of marketing strategies and, you know, tricks and tips you can offer for people that are, you know, releasing their music. Whether that's self releasing or releasing with a label. You still gotta put in that work to make sure that people hear the tracks and hear the music. Right. So, could you walk me through. You know, maybe like a, like a basic kind of marketing strategy that you guys would implement for a new song that's coming out.

Track 1: 34:48

we usually have different. Tactics, views based off the song, again, the genre a lot, so there's a lot of factors in there that you could throw in there. But in general, when building the marketing plan, you know, first of all, again, always making sure the music is right. Art and visuals are on point. Make sense with the artist, the brand, the song itself. You don't want to, you don't wanna make an album artwork that has nothing, that, that just doesn't make sense with the, the sonic side of the song. You know? Like it's gotta all connect in some way, you know? Like I see that and it makes sense with that song. so that's the first and foremost. you know, everyone has access now to pitch their song to DSPs. so Spotify for artists, making sure you're doing that every time it's important and it does work. Hitting, release radars, discovery mode, all those types of things. Um,

Nik: 35:34

can you explain that to me? I'm, I'm not actually entirely familiar with that. When you say pitching it to DSPs,'cause obviously you can just, you know, upload it to be released, it's going to just get distributed, but you're talking about pitching it to the playlist that they have. Like what, what, what does that actually look

Track 1: 35:51

on how, so you have to either go through a distributor or you can do a tune core type of situation and just put your music out, um, where it's like basically your self distro. But if you're working with a distributor, or a label making sure that either the distributor or the label or pitching on your behalf, they should have the access. To be able to pitch to a Spotify or to an Apple Music or to a bport to try and see if your your release can get the features, the looks, the extra little banners here and there that you'd want to help. You know, it's basically extra advertisement for your song. Spotify, obviously an Apple Music, very playlist focused, playlist driven. being in some of those editorial playlists can, you know, really help a song, you know, get, its, get i I, you don't wanna a hundred percent count on those. Can definitely get a song going in the direction you want it to get it in. so that's important, you know, and, and if you don't, if you don't have that, trying to figure, if you don't have, if you're just literally doing the tune core method, uh, trying to, you know, going through the, the artist portals, which is like a Spotify for artist, has that, uh, tool now where you can, you can pitch your song on your own no matter who you are, no matter what level. that's first and foremost when setting up the song and then comes like the, the marketing and PR side of it, right? So marketing, what content can I make? Like What's the best content plan for this song? Starting two weeks before release, one week before release, and then one week post release. You know, what cool memes, what funny memes, what, uh, live clips of the song being played out or me playing the song out, or just like a live stream of, of me DJing and, and getting that clip of the song that's gonna help get it, you know, promoted out there. what can I do on my channels to help hype up the song as much as possible? I mean, you've seen it more and more like. The pre-release hype content is what gets the song going. Even, you know, before it even comes out nowadays, especially like with TikTok and stuff like that. So it's important. Not everyone's a content creator, so I get that too. But at least putting together three or four things that you think might help elevate or get the the song out, out and in front of as many people as possible is gonna be helpful. And then when it hits release day, you know, your PR plan is, is important too. So. I used to do this back in the day. I'm sure you did too. I used to, you know, reach out to blogs on my own. You know, I'd email direct, uh, emails to a dancing astronaut or edm.com, whatever it might be, trying to see if they'll just gimme a little love, throw me on their weekly playlists or weekly top, you know, top picks. Trying to get a couple of those looks here and there, YouTube channels as well. A lot of these channels now have. Submission, uh, hubs submit hub.com is also a great one'cause you can just literally drop your song on there, send it out to a bunch of blogs, a bunch of YouTube channels, and hopefully get it gets picked up by a few of them, you know, and they sometimes will add it into their Spotify playlist. So just even it helps to track it more and more, eyes and yours on it as possible. So that's your like PR marketing strategy. Then have to really say, and then post-release, it's like, okay, I've done everything to get this release teed up and now it's out there. What else can I do now to keep it rolling? So. It's creating that like phase two marketing, whether it's like, oh, I'm gonna put, try and put out a DJ mix on SoundCloud or try and get my local radio station, the area, you know, making those, you know, finding that info at wherever, radio station.com email and just sending it, you know, doing a cold email out to them, seeing whether promo you can add on, on top, just to keep the hype building and hype growing. Trying to get it into DJ's hands, you know, trying to find, if you don't have a DJ promo service working for you to send it out on an email blast to DJs. You know, you going and digging on SoundCloud and finding those, most DJs have it listed now, you know, so finding the submission emails for demos and then sending out to, to those, to those artists that you'd want to play your song. that'd be my like basic go-to, that was a one minute kind of rollout there.

Nik: 39:44

yeah. And, and really what it boils down to is putting some elbow grease behind your release and, and getting it into as many people's hands as possible.

Track 1: 39:57

Exactly. That's what it gets. That's what it comes down to. If you're ex, if you think you're gonna put out a song and not do anything, just like go upload and have a go out and it'll work. I mean, it has happened for some people. I'm not gonna lie, but I. it's just not the reality of it. You have to put the time and effort into think calculating on all those different things that I mentioned, getting into the right DJ's, hands again, artwork and visuals on point. Creating some content around the release, whether it's footage, live clips, footage, or just meme kind of content. getting those, the co-sign from some of those blogs or playlists or YouTube channels. All those things will add up and, and help the song grow. So

Nik: 40:35

and I think it's, IM, I think it's important for artists to think about how many hours you put into making your music. You know, you might put in, you know, like. Dozens of hours onto a song, a hundred hours maybe, you know, into making this song the best song you can possibly make it, and then you put in two hours to marketing it and trying to get it out there, doesn't matter up, it doesn't make sense, and a lot of people are questioning like, oh, why am I spinning my wheels? Why am I not growing as much as I want to? It's like, all right, there's this whole other side of it. That you need to be paying attention to and you need to be putting just as much effort, if not more into And in the beginning. Yeah. If you, if you don't have a label, like you gotta do that yourself. If you don't have a, you know, a management and a team, like you gotta roll up your fucking sleeves and do it. And this is a point I continue to come back to, but this is why I think only 1% of people actually really, really go out there to like. Turn this into a full-time career is actually treating this like a business and a career and having a business plan and a strategy and being just willing to roll up your sleeves and do the marketing and make the, make the content, even if it's not fun. Even if you don't want to be on fucking TikTok and you want to like, you know, bitch and moan and complain about this whole other side of it, like, cool, go ahead, but then stay in your bedroom for the rest of your life. Like this is what it takes to get your shit out there and It doesn't have to be

Track 1: 42:00

Right. It's not a Scorsese.

Nik: 42:02

yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be that complicated. Like, don't make it more complicated than it is. Like, make a spreadsheet, send out a bunch of emails. Right. Uh, and, and you only have to make that spreadsheet once. Right. Figure out some content. Like it's, it's, it's not that hard. Get some, you know, AI can make your artwork now, like it's getting easier and easier every day. Yeah.

Track 1: 42:23

Exactly. It's, it's like you said, you dedicate time to your music. I'm not even, we're not even saying like, you don't even have to put as much as much time as you put into the music on the marketing or, or the promo side, but you do have to put in the time, or you do have to have your team put in the time. And then you do have the tools and resources, like even the website I mentioned, submit hub.com. It's so easy. You literally go. You put your song in, then you click what blogs you want to send it to, and it does it for you in five minutes. It's not a hard thing. content. Put a little camera on your, in your studio or your bedroom studio if you just jamming out to your song. You know, like I've seen so many acts, just they're, you know, songs going off on Instagram or TikTok just because they literally put a camera up in their studio and they're just make and make a good little. Look good little 15, 22nd clip and them listening to their song and their studio, simple. You know, this is not, I'm not, we're not asking for a, uh, like I said, Scorsese film here, or Spielberg, you know, just a little content, fun things that are just gonna help promote your song and look as it was different back in the day. But artists did have to think about different ways to promote their music. You know, if you were, you know, if you didn't have a music video in the nineties, good luck, you know? Right. So like. no one's asking for, uh, artists to be working on music videos. Now it's just a 10, 15 second clip or something like that. or even before that, you know, flyers, you know, handing out flyers, going into the record stores. so honestly, if you look really back in history about how artists had to promote themselves, especially small, independent artists, it's gotten, actually, it's, it's, there's more artists, which makes it more difficult. But the process of of of, of, you know, creating that plan and marketing is actually. In some ways you could look at, say it's easier, um,

Nik: 44:02

well, it's funny, this is where I actually want to dig into the, the mindset part of this podcast where you know, I came from working at Capital Records back in 2008 is when I started, you know, I dunno, 15 years ago, whatever that was. so it was a different era back then. And, and there was. A long time ago, I don't know how long ago, I may say 20 years ago, people. Artists were complaining about needing to get a record label to be successful, where it's like you had to get a record label to fund you, to give you the upfront money to pay for your studio time and to pay for all of your marketing and to put out a, a cd. To create a CD and then have it shipped to a store to get by. And so it was like. That was something to complain about was like, oh my God. It's like, I can't win at this game unless I get signed. Right? And, and now fast forward, now you have all the tools in the world. You got, you can make all the music by yourself in your bedroom. You can do the marketing, you can make the content, you can do everything by yourself. And now artists are complaining that they have to do it all by themself. And I like to bring that up because it really just boils down to what kind of person are you, You are either going to be a victim or you're going to be the captain of your own ship, right? There's always, there's always gonna be something to complain about. There's, and so you just have to really pay attention.'cause I see this too much of like. What are you complaining about? Do you think that this game is unfair? Because it's all perspective. It used to be unfair 20 years ago, right? Because you had to rely on somebody else to give you the money and the resources. Right? Now you have all the resources and you don't, you don't need that anymore, and there's still something to complain about, and it's just depending on how you're looking at things and when you really see yourself as. I am the captain of my own ship. This boils down to me and my work ethic and my creativity and really believing that I can do this and putting in the hours to make it happen and looking for the opportunities like it's fucking possible. This is, this is where you get to draw the line in the sand, and I'm just encouraging anybody that's listening right now to really sniff out anything that you're complaining about. Any part of you that says that this game is unfair, or you know, whatever bullshit excuse you're coming up with for not doing the work. It's like you gotta get over it all right? Because there's plenty of opportunity out there and it's actually, once you get over that, it's actually not that hard. You know, it can become fun.

Track 1: 46:33

exactly. It should be a motivating factor, honestly. So like you said, like look back, there's always been challenges along the way. you can't go into different, how different people deal with different situations, mental stuff, whatever it might be. but I think look at, look at the resources you have. In front of you now that were never there before as a huge tool to you to achieve what you want as an artist. it's really important to remember that and to, uh, you know, take advantage of it. you know, it's, uh, being an artist right now in 2024. It's actually, I. It's pretty special, you know? and everything that we just talked about over the, the last hour, about, about, uh, all those, all those different things you can plug into and to have your music heard by different audiences, it all just makes the difference. So, yeah, it's great to, it's great to hear your little analogy there. And, uh, now I understand why they call you the coach. You know, may, may have to hire you on

Nik: 47:28

yeah, man, it's, it's, you know, my. my. framework for artistic success is, I think it boils down to basically five different pillars, and I put at the foundation of that pillar is mindset. If you don't believe in yourself or if you're struggling to. See the opportunity if you're, you know, we get caught up in our head, like, we have this thing in our brain that's this self-sabotaging ego that like, even though we have these big goals and dreams, it can also really shit all over us sometimes. And so like conquering that. Inner demon first is so important. Getting your mindset right is so important. and then, then you free up the space to actually, number two, make really good music. Like we said, that's the entry point. You gotta have really fucking good music. Number three. Creating a good brand, creating a package to put that music in, right? You're going to be trying to get this music out there and basically selling it to a very oversaturated marketplace where there's a very, very high supply of the, pretty much a lot of the same sounding kind of product. So you gotta put it in a nice, sexy package, right? Or doesn't have to be sexy, but something fun and cool and interesting and different and unique and engaging. This is such a huge part that people skip over. Because they go straight to number four, which is marketing, right? A lot of people are just saying, Hey, I made a song, now let me push it out there. It's like, all right, like you said, well make sure that the visuals you know, are lined up with like the message of the song and there's some cohesiveness there. Like that's where you gotta also figure out that brand, you know? So number four is marketing. Number five is, is. Networking. It's also, you know, who do, who do you know, go out there and make those relationships. You're able to have this, job now at, at working at Insomniac.'cause you are good at networking. You were able to leverage your relationships, you know, and, create a position for yourself. And so anyways, a lot of people that can help with the music, a lot of people that can help with the. Branding and the marketing and the networking. But this, this mindset piece is really where I, I feel called to serve because it's like that's the invisible parking break where you're trying to drive through life and wondering why you're not accelerating at the, at the pace that you want to be. Because there's oftentimes some, you know, some limiting beliefs and some blocks that are, that are there. So

Track 1: 49:45

Got it. Down.

Nik: 49:46

Yeah, man. Yeah, that's what we're, that's what we're here to do, brother. I'm, I'm really stoked to see that we are, you know, sharing in the same mission and path of supporting artists, and it is so cool to see what you've created for yourself over, over the last 10 years. And, and not, not only for yourself, but the, what you've created for the community. Right, the impact that you've been able to make, the doors that you've been able to open for, I don't know how many countless artists, you know, to be able to, to, to be able to come, come through this insomniac machine and, and really get out there and, you know, not only, you know, live their dreams and develop careers for themselves, but ultimately like bring their art to the world and bring. Joy to people and bring smiles to people's faces and, you know, music to the dance floors. Right. So I, I really wanna Yeah, just, just commend you for, for the work that you're doing on, on your side of it. And, um, it's, uh, it's an honor to be sharing on this, this path and this journey and this mission with you.

Track 1: 50:49

Thank you. Same here. Yeah, it's been, uh, I feel like it's been my mission to do it and I've tried my best and hardest and I've worked, you know, really hard at it. And, uh, you know, even when I was like in high school, I was like, I wanna be an a and r and I didn't even know what an a and r was, but just, you know, I saw something about Jimmy Ivy somewhere. I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. so. It's really been awesome to be here and I think it's the best possible home for me'cause. I don't just work with an artist on the, on the record side of it, I get to work with them on the live side as well, which is pretty unique coming from a label physician. Um, most label people don't, can't really say that. amazing. And, and I do like, honestly, it's the best feeling ever, like being on stage. And watching an artist that you've worked with, you know, from their early days playing a song that you worked on together out in front of a crowd of, you know, 30, 40,000 people and, you know, sharing it with them in that moment. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. So, I'm excited to keep doing it.

Nik: 51:45

Hell Yeah. brother. Well, cheers to the next 10 years. Let's keep kicking ass and uh, it's really, really great. to see you, man. Thanks for hopping on today.

Track 1: 51:53

Thanks, dude. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Nik: 51:54

Yeah.