Headliner Mindset
The Headliner Mindset podcast explores what it truly takes to succeed as an artist in the EDM industry. Through interviews with some of the biggest DJs, artists and professionals in the game, we dig into not only the business strategies for success but also how to navigate the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of the artist journey. For more info, go to www.nikcherwink.com.
Headliner Mindset
FRANK WALKER - Bringing Back The Golden Era Of Dance Music
Frank Walker is a Canadian electronic music artist signed to Kygo's management team and record label. Inspired by the "golden era" of big room house music, he's been bringing back some of those classic sounds and feelings into his productions, racking up tens of millions of streams on Spotify in the process.
In this episode we talk about how to curate DJ sets for different crowds, how to attract a good manager, how to build an effective artist brand and more.
Follow Frank here:
https://www.instagram.com/frankwalker
Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink
And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
think when you're trying to find a manager, if you're an artist that doesn't have one, like having as much ammo in place, you As possible, make their lift lighter, like, how much work do you expect them to do? no one's going to care about your project as much as you like, you need to bring as much to the table as possible. like, I was doing my own graphic design. Like, I have a proper logo and EPK and everything built like, Hey, like, here's like all the marketing assets. You need to go pitch into a club. Like, I've got one of my buddies in Toronto who's a videographer to make like a hype reel of everything I was doing. So it's not like I just had a couple, good, SoundCloud songs and then expected him to do everything else.
Nik:What's up, everybody. Welcome to the headliner mindset podcast. Today's guest is on a mission to bring back the golden era of dance music. After getting picked up by Kygo's management team and record label, he's been touring nonstop playing festivals and shows all over the world, getting tens of millions of streams on Spotify and just recently dropping his debut full length album, this is Frank Walker. My man, welcome to the show. So stoked to have you here. Very, very, uh, excited to dig in to learning a bit about the world of Frank Walker and who you are and what you're up to. So welcome to the headliner mindset podcast.
FW:Thanks for having me. I'm excited to, uh, to share the Frank Walker world. Um, yeah, thanks for having me on.
Nik:So, you know, I was, I was poking around. I was reading some articles. Um, first off, I, I always like to shout out kind of how I get connected with my artists. Uh, shout out David Rishti, who, uh, runs Palm Tree Records. We just did an episode a couple months ago. Really great episode. Palm Tree Records is Kygo's record label. And he was so rad to kind of peel back the curtains and, and tell us a lot about, you know, what it looks like to run a record label. So really great episode to check out, but you're one of the artists that's on the palm tree records label and, and part of that camp in that operation as well. So, um, yeah, shout out David. Now,
FW:We love
Nik:as we love Dave, shout out Dave, the man now, as I was digging into your music and, and, and reading up on you. The first thing that stood out that I really love, that's kind of, it's like part of your, part of your brand or part of your slogan to a certain extent is, bringing it back to the golden era.
FW:Yeah. Uh, depending on what,
Nik:me what, tell me what the golden era is. Cause this, this is exciting for me.
FW:so depending on when you got into dance music, this probably differs for different people. But for me, it's like, I don't know, I dropped my debut album earlier this year and, When I was going back through, like, thinking about, like, what do I want this to mean to me, it kind of, kind of circled back to, like, that golden era of dance music for me when, like, I first fell in love with it. We had, like, Avicii, Lessos, Bleach House Mafia, like, all these amazing artists making super melodic stuff that kind of crossed over from being underground into, like, pop realm, I guess, kind of, when you have these amazing vocalists hopping on tracks. And I think for me, it was an intersection of 2 different genres that I, that I really love because I love, like, I love a good like folk song or an alternative song or like a good ballad. And like, I think the way you're able to meld those two together, they were, it was super inspirational for me and made me fall in love with the genre. And first as kind of like a listener, then like a hobbyist DJ, then more seriously as a DJ, then as a producer. And then years later here, here I am. So yeah, the golden era for me is that kind of like 2013 to 2015 dance. Yeah,
Nik:well, I 100 percent agree. That was the golden era. That was my favorite Avicii will forever be my number one favorite artist. I started going out in 2009. I think was my first rave and so 2010. It was like Swedish house. Mafia's one Avicii, you know, was just starting to pop off. It was it was it was a special time man. And there was a there was something happening back then that Doesn't seem to happen as, as much, you know, I think it is a little bit of like you said, kind of like that crossover where it's, it still is very much, yeah, it's big room, electronic music, big fucking chords and melodies, but also bringing in these really beautiful vocals and it's kind of seemed like it's shifted away from that for, for a little bit. So it's really cool to see you. Yeah, bringing that back, but in like a, like a modern way as well. Like a, like a 2024 version of it. Yeah.
FW:because I've been producing now for like 7 years or so, I've definitely picked up other techniques and collabed with a bunch of other people over the years. And like, you learn different, different little techniques from people. Being on the road with, not only with Kygo's label, but I'm also like, same management team, so I've opened for Kygo a ton. Definitely some like, tropical influence and stuff I've been doing. Um, Yeah, for me, it's more like the emotion behind that stuff that really like is what I wanted to kind of emulate and like on the album, there's quite a few big like anthemic kind of sounding dance tracks, but also some stuff. It's a bit more mellow, uh, but like, always comes back to the kind of like that, that emotion that I think that some modern dance music is lacking a bit and yeah. Like, some people want to go out and party to techno music, and that's totally cool. Like, I've been at raves before, and I have fun there. But for me, it just doesn't feel as, like, fulfilling to write that. Like, I'd like something that I can listen back to in 10 years. And like, those Avicii songs, like, if you listen to Wake Me Up, like, everyone still sings it. Like, it's It's not, it's not like it's gonna ever go, it's never going to like expire, you know, it's like, it's one of those things where like a good song is always going to be a good song and people can listen to it forever, opposed to like, maybe in a few years, a techno track might not be as like, know, it might be a bit more disposable. And that's like, there's amazing lyrics. And like, you have someone like a Jon Summit, who's putting amazing lyrics on like, kind of more techno tracks or progressive house tracks. And I think those ones will stand the test of time. And there's like, it's not saying that you can't have those moments in other genres.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting to think about that, because there is a difference between writing songs, like song songs, versus, um, almost like DJ You know, where I think in some genres, like I see some, some house artists where they're like They're putting out like 20 songs a year, you know, and just like, boom, boom, boom. Like there's this almost like rushed process and, and, you know, maybe, you know, techno, how some of these things, and that's because it's like, well, as a DJ, you're DJing a couple times a week. Like you always need new music, right? Like part of that sort of DJ culture is like, we're playing fresh shit all the time. So it's kind of like, you're always searching for the next thing. Versus when you're like, Hey, I'm trying to write a song that's still going to be here in, in five years or 10 years. Right. That's, it's a bit of a different creative process.
FW:And there's like, there's something to be said about like, that other like, mentality too, where it's like you want to be pushing the limit and be the first one to find new stuff and make crazy VIP edits that no one else has and like, not to say like when I play my sets like, it always goes back to like the core of being melodic, but there are moments where it's like I'm making a VIP edit for like, say I'm playing Ultra and it's like, Like I'll make a drop and I'm like, this is like, like, I'll make it. I'm like, this is like, honestly kind of annoying, but like, it'll work really well live because it just like hits you. And it's like that moment, but like, not something I would listen to if I'm like chilling, like trying to like, just listen for like the sake of listening, you know? So I think there's like, there's music that can serve all different purposes, but, um, yeah,
Nik:that's where I really break down the difference between being an artist being a producer and being a DJ like those are all from my opinion. Those are all different skill sets. It's like an artist is like you're really tapping into your soul and your emotion and you're expressing yourself and you're exploring and playing and breaking rules. being a producer is like you just you understand the math and science and the formula of how music is made and kind of what works and then being a DJ is different as well. You know, it reminds me of, um, I started my career at Capitol Records, as like a publicist assistant. And at that time we had signed David Guetta. This was like, right. This is 2000 and nine or 2008, I think so, like right before shit popped. I remember having a conversation with Guetta. He's making all of these like You know, kind of crossover hits and, uh, radio, like radio hits. Like he was, he was like kind of one of the first ones to start bringing like dance music into pop music, into hip hop music. And that shit was getting played on the radio. So he's blowing up for these songs. And I remember him telling me, he was like, man, he's like, I don't get it. You know, I come out here to play. These raves and these shows and I'm playing my songs and like, basically like it's not working and it's like, well, yeah, because people are coming to the show to fucking party. You know, like, I like, I remember him having this moment of like, seeing the light bulb go off in his head where he was like, Oh shit, I can't just play like the radio stuff. I gotta make edits. I gotta, I gotta change these songs in a way to make them, you know, You know, it's like back then, like it would know it. No, it hadn't really happened yet. Like there wasn't this sort of crossover yet. So it's, uh, I think it's an important thing for artists to realize of like, there is that difference of like, okay, when you're DJing, you know, how are you going to actually really make shit for the crowd perform for the crowd? Right. Yeah.
FW:songs are kind of like ballady and like the original I got like making sappy music so like unless one is like really popped off on radio or streaming, it's hard for me to play them out and I need to make edits and mash them up with either like a track that people know or like make quick edits to get them in there to start teasing it out so people get exposed to it more. But it's also a fine line, because I have these songs that people love, and if I don't play them, I get like, not angry DMs, and people are like, Oh, I'm so disappointed, like, I wanted to hear my favorite song, and I'm like, oh, I fucked up, like I, like, Like, this person really loves this song. So it's tough, and like, especially when you're reading the room, and it's like, you have like a certain amount of set time, and it's like, You'll like, like my tour manager, Blaze, is like, hey, you've got like 15 minutes left, I'm like, oh, like, I need to get a few thoughts, a few things in that I haven't played yet, but I also like can't just have the last 15 minutes to like the downer minute section. So that's like, that's such a big skill. I think as like the DJ is obviously reading the room, but like then you have to navigate that artist portion that comes in as well and be like, Hey, how do I strike the balance where I'm like maintaining that artistic integrity, but also like to the room. Cause like sometimes I go to a club and it's like, people want it like dark and heavy and techie. And that's like not really what my brand is becoming and like not what I, Like love to play and like, cause of that, like my repertoire of that stuff isn't as like pushing the limits in that area. So sometimes it's like, Hey, how do you like give them a little bit of what they want, but then like bring it back to where I want it to be for myself. And kind of like, guide the crowd back to like where I want them to be. And to also like kind of maintain that, that sound that I want to become known for. So definitely like, I, I sympathize when you say like another artists have to go through that issue of like, Hey, how do I balance being an artist with a DJ. Then, like, I think you do those two live and then you bring it back to being a producer and it's like, how do I make stuff that kind of makes everything cohesive when you're back home sitting in
Nik:Yeah. It's a fucking juggling act, man. It really sounds like you got all these different balls you're trying to juggle at the same time. I would imagine when it comes to DJing, because it's like you're going to have people that come That are just, they probably don't even know who you are. They're like, we're going to the club tonight. And someone's playing and we're just going out to party. And there's the kind of club kids that maybe just want to party. But then you're also going to have people that are there that are like, I bought tickets to see this artist because I like his song. And I play this fucking song on my Spotify every day. And I want him to play that song like actual fans. And so, how do you know? I imagine it would probably be, Part of it would probably be if, like, if you're playing maybe, like, a hard ticket show versus, like, a club show, would be probably an easy way to tell, like, what is that portion and percentage of people that are just kind of there to party versus there that are actual fans? Like, how do you find that balance of kind of knowing where to lean?
FW:I think it depends, like, on, like, there's a couple answers. I think it depends on, like, the market you're playing. Like, this weekend at Marquee, like, it's more of, like, a touristy city in New York and people go out and want to party and, like, they're there as, like, a destination. Obviously, like, regular club goers and I've got fans in New York that'll be able to see me perform. But, like, when you're in, like, a Miami, a Vegas, a New York, like, you, like, You have a lot of these like kind of bottle service clubs that have a lot of clientele that are coming out, just want to be there to party. So like you always have like your crowd pleasers you throw in. And then I try to like squeeze my main, like Frank Walker songs in between those to kind of like have them fit a vibe where it's like, Hey, like I just heard like David get a titanium and like, I love that. It's a banger. And it's like, Oh, like one of my songs is the same key. So it's like, right. And the energy is high. Like then I try to squeeze it in, have a nice little moment, bring it back to stuff they might know. Opposed like there's some music markets that are like really good music markets. Like there's something about Colorado. Like the people there just like are down to listen to whatever. So I feel you go there and you have it more like carte blanche to play whatever you want. And like, they're way more like, I think music fan fans. They're not saying that there aren't people like that in like New York or Miami, like Miami has an amazing house scene as well, but it depends on the venue you're at. And because I think I make more commercial music, I get in more commercial venues where it's like, if I go to live, maybe half the crowd's there to see me, but half the crowd's there because they're on vacation and like, just want to like, been partying all day and want to come out. So I think it's like, partly reading the room and being prepared for that. Like, if I have a 2 hour set, I'll come in with like, 5 or 6 hours of music and always have like, my core, where like, I start and like, moments I want to hit in the middle, then I'll kind of like, deviate in the middle of that, but I'll go, hey, like, they're liking the darker stuff. I'm like, for this whole 10 minute block, I'm going to maybe go a bit more like. Darker, make it a bit heavier, bring it back up. Um,
Nik:Yeah.
FW:yeah. I think that's A, reading the room and just having the repertoire to read the room. Like, there's a lot of people that can be playing a DJ set that's like, Oh no, I'm tanking, but like, I don't know where to go. And I think that's just having come with having toured now for like 7 years and, Probably played like 500 shows. Like if people want a throwback section, like I've got that. If people want it like this way, I got that. Like, I think it's like, A, learning how to read and B, just having the repertoire ready to read and getting thrown into situations. And I'm not saying I've never tanked before, but you live and you learn. It's like, maybe I should have a set like this ready for next time this happens. Like,
Nik:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I'm really excited to go deeper into this because I actually just bought a, what is it? Pioneer. Pioneer. DJXMRX3 controller. I got my first DJ controller. What happened was, I had, two days in a row, I had people come up to me here in Austin, and say, hey Nick, like, do you want to DJ this party? Like, my friend was having a birthday, he's like, oh, you want to DJ? And then the next day someone was like, hey, we have this event, you want to DJ? And I was like, yeah. I work with hella DJs, so people just assume, they just thought, Oh, you obviously know how to DJ, you work with all these DJs. No, I don't, I don't, I mean, I have, years and years ago, I know maybe the basics, But it was like this sign from the universe, I was like, Fuck, I think, like, I think it's time, I think it's time, I need to just have, be able to have a USB, But I don't know how to DJ. Plug in, throw down a set. So I'm at the very beginning of just learning. Now, I'm really curious as you talk about having these two important things. One, the, the repertoire, um, cause I'm just in the process where I'm like, I gotta download hella music. I'm like, okay, I'm just, I'm just, just beginning. Like, all right, I got to just spend fucking hours downloading music, setting my cue points and record box. And
FW:That never stops. Like, I still like, even like, even though I have the gravitory, you still got to keep digging and finding those things. Sorry, I got to get you out there. But what, what, what's the next problem you have?
Nik:Well, yeah, like, you know, uh, crate, crate digging, right? Just fucking crate digging. And that's exciting to me. That's, that's a fun part of it. But also, like, I've never DJ'd before. So, um, the other part that you really talk about is, is reading the room. And, and I hear that term all the time. And obviously, you know, anyone else, anyone that's out there that actually is DJing, you know, there is this reality of, yeah, reading the room. So, um, How do you actually read the room? What are you looking for? What are the, like, the nuances that you're paying attention to? Like, how do you know when to shift and where to go? Let's dig into that a little bit.
FW:it's a tricky one before I jump in. Like, I think when like you're at the phase where you're playing house parties is like the most fun because there's no expectations that you can mess around and mess up. And if you're with all your friends, like, there's, there's nothing better than that. Um, and like, even for me to like, some of my buddies own bars in Toronto, or like, I'll like, if I'm around someone, like, like, Hey, like the DJ is like, like, I'll hop on for half an hour. And it's like, when there's no expectations, those are the most fun. So enjoy it while you can. Um,
Nik:Thank you. Thank you. I plan on staying there. I don't plan on going beyond that. My goal is to play a fucking pool party with the homies or a house party. Like that's literally it.
FW:No, it's a lot of it's a lot of fun. Um, it kind of like depends like after touring enough You eventually start to get a sense of like what rooms are gonna want what um, but yeah for me It's like I always have like kind of my intro like I always start off with one of my tracks gonna like Break it down build up some epic little intro bit We have like visuals time coded to make it kind of like a statement like i'm coming on then Around, like, 5 or 10 minutes in is when I'll start to like, like, hey, where do I want to jump around in this? Um, it can be tough to read. Like, sometimes, like, typically I'll look like, right. There's like a good core of people in front of the dance floor, like, in front of the DJ booth. Like, I feel like those are like the real ones that are there to, like, actually party. So if they're getting down, I'll kind of like, I'll kind of look what they're reacting to and seeing, like, kind of what genres they want. Then they kind of expand out from there. I look around the room more like if typically table service people want commercial. Like vocal stuff. So, but it depends on the club, like they can get a bit darker as well. But I think like that core group in front, um, kind of like looking at when, like what they want to do, like, like the real people in the dance floor, who are like, they're riding the rail or something like they like, they're like the real dance bands. If they're like, if I can throw something in there that they love, that's always like, The best thing for me. And then kind of just like seeing if the energy is high, like I'll have times where it's like, there's like, I have a massive song, like not to go back to get up, like a titanium. But like, if the energy is super, super hype and like, you don't want to kill the energy too fast with a big, like, kind of melodic breakdown. So it's like, okay, sometimes I'll jump ahead, but like, hey, like everyone's like, Ripping it on the dance floor right now. Let's like jump ahead through a couple more bangers in there that can circle back to play like the big melodic moments when maybe the energy is like, people look like they need a bit of a breath or like, you want like a big kind of euphoric moment for people to sing along to, there's really no like. Template to it. And I think after a while, you just, you kind of feel it out and you kind of get a sense of where stuff's heading. And that also probably comes from being a dance music fan being like, oh, like, I don't know, maybe like, this is the right time to have a super, super, like, nostalgic vocal moment in the set and like, kind of bring people back and rebuild it back up to. To like have those kind of peaks and valleys in your set to have the energy flow. Because also like if you want to have you can't do that for two hours straight because eventually they burn out and
Nik:For sure. For sure. What about when you're playing a festival? Is that pretty, like, locked in and planned out? Like, I got this hour. Like, a festival's kind of a different, you know, you're not playing a nightclub. It's a totally different experience. Will you have that pretty locked in? Or will you also kind of read, like, would you maybe pivot in the middle of, like, a festival set also? Yeah.
FW:the most part it's locked in like not saying I haven't pivoted before but that typically means like something is going wrong or like I read the vibe going into it really wrong but uh I feel like that's more where you become more the artist than the DJ and like you have to like you make these moments around more of your songs like and also it's like I feel like you're at a dance festival specifically like you're trying to like Expose yourself to fans not in like a inappropriate way. Um, but, uh, thanks Joe. Like, hey, like, if they're dance music fans, like, hey, like, these are Frank Walker songs that, like, maybe you haven't heard before, but I want to try to win you over. And then you layer in, like, we put a lot of time and effort into making my live visuals and typically live, like, stage moments are really good, like, mediums for that. So it's like, we try to get time coded moments in. So that's where, like, there's a feed coming out from the CDJ to front of house and they can see what I'm playing and they can see where it is on the beat grid. And then they can sync up if they have prepped ahead of time, they can sync up like my visuals. So when there's a big boom in the song, like you have a strobe hit or something. So you kind of have to, uh, they can see a little bit ahead. Like if there's four decks, I can see what four songs I have loaded up, but you kind of have, they kind of have to have like a bit of an idea. So you're not throwing them off to have those kinds of time coded moments. Then you layer in like special effects, like, cause you have like a certain amount of CO2 or flames or like maybe one or two big pyro shots. And you want to make sure like your team knows when that's coming to like, Make sure, like, the SFX guy is ready to fire, like, tour manager can queue him up, like, photographer needs to be, say, it's like a good, like, shot, you want your photographer to be front of house to get a moment,
Nik:So much more that you're thinking about to, to really nail on
FW:yeah, and it's, I think that's when you become more of, like, the producer artist side, because, like, I'm like, hey, like, I'm going to produce, like, a really sick festival moment here and make a special edit of my track, yeah, so it's, like, tough, and, like, as you, like, as you play more festivals, you kind of get, also, you get a feeling, like, everyone grows as an artist, and, you know, You kind of know a bit more. Then you can also layer in like bringing out singers like like for Altra this year. We brought out two different singers like my friend Tyler Shaw and uh my buddy Josh Brakes from Scotland. So it's like we like flew the singers out. It's like you know they obviously have to know when they need to be up on stage, have their mic packs ready to go, like line checks all done. Um because it's like typically on these big festivals you don't get a lot of time to mic check beforehand. So it's like it's kind of being done on the fly. So my Probably is pulling his hair out, but we always get it done. Uh, but like for that to you and you need to plan out special moments. So you're making your performers, kind of your songs, like, like you're getting rid of the lead vocal. It's all backing vocals or like just whatever harmonies you want. And it's like, you kind of work through it with the singer ahead of time to make sure everything's good there. So festivals definitely need to be more kind of like rigidly planned. If you're on like a main stage, not saying like I'm playing breakaway coming up in two weeks and that's, uh, I'm on like the launch pad there, which is like more like the ravey side stage. And that'd be more like, uh, A read the room kind of situation and that being said, because it's a side stage, like, the visuals are like, they're kind of more sporadic screens like the CO2, but shoots into the crowd and stuff. So it's it can be a bit more free flow and fun. And I don't know. I'm also looking forward to that because you have to read the room a little bit and, like, maybe throw something in there. That's all left field that, like, I wouldn't expect to play, but, like, It's happening, fuck it, like, throw it in and sometimes you get a good reaction, sometimes you get a bad, but that's what keeps it fun.
Nik:Yeah. I like what you pointed out. about how playing a festival is a little bit more of an artist showcase. I haven't really thought about that before, as opposed to like, if you're playing a club, you know, a nightclub, it's like, yeah, you're kind of, you're kind of there as a hired service to make sure that the people at the club are having fun and like, yeah, like, you know, maybe you're going to cater a little bit differently towards a particular market. If it's a VIP, you know, vibe or whatever. Whereas playing a festival, it's like. You know, that is your moment to sort of show like, hey, this is who I am and, and, and how I throw down and people are probably seeing you on the lineup of like, oh, let's go check out this artist. I can see how there's like a kind of a shift there of it being more of Yeah, I like that idea. It's kind of like an artist showcase. So that makes sense.
FW:definitely. And then there's also like, I think, I don't know, it was on Threads the other day, I don't know who still uses Threads, but I was looking at one of my buddies, uh, DLMT, arguing with someone else who's like, I think he's like one of those mashup, like, turntablist DJs that got booked for, uh, I forget who it was, uh, but he was playing some, like, big festival and like, Did some like mashup routine and dropped into a weird drum and bass track and like the crowd just didn't have any reaction and he like posted a video of the crowd not reacting to his mashup saying like, I don't care who you are. Like, if you're not getting down to this, you're not the crowd for like, like, you don't know good music is pretty much calling out the crowd. My buddy's like, this is on you. Like, at some point, like, right. At some point you need to be yourself, but also like, I don't know, if you're like, if you're like, heads up your ass and it's like, oh, like if you don't like this and you're not like a real dance music fan, like you should be able to at least like move like a little bit in your set. And like, you're not saying like, like obviously it's a little genre dependent, but like I've seen back to John Summit, like I've seen him play like fun mashup house edits where it's like. Stuff like that you get, like, I saw him play a private party for, like, a room that was probably predominantly people in, like, their late 30s, 40s, and, like, he had that movement, but he can also throw down, like, a hard techno set where it's, like, it's staying within his lane, but you also, like, that's the way of, like, reading the room in that lane. For me, it's, like, if I'm playing an older really Like, the private party and older crowd, like, I'm playing a lot of throwbacks and then, like, you can always throw some of those in to get, like, to feed the crowd a little bit what they want, like, kind of bite them in and bring them back on the journey. And I think that's also reading the room. Um,
Nik:Yeah.
FW:yeah, it's like, kind of like reading and adjusting within your lane. I think you need to kind of like. You need to be there for the crowd though. Like if the crowd's not having fun, like why are you doing what you're doing? Like if you want to play just for yourself, stay home in your bedroom and just play it, just play for yourself. You know, like everyone should be having a good time. Not people just staring at you being like, what the fuck is this guy doing up on stage?
Nik:100%. I agree. I talk about that a lot where it's like understanding like, you know, especially if like you've, you've been paid to show up and entertain, you're being hired to provide a service. And the goal should be. to rock this fucking crowd. And a good DJ is gonna know, like, like you said, how to read the room, and how to have the right, uh, bank of tracks to know where to go. Like, okay, cool, like, drum and bass didn't work. That's on me, my bad. Like, let's fucking go over here. Don't get mad at the crowd if they're not rocking with you. That, I think that is your job. That's what Good DJ is gonna do. A good DJ isn't just about, oh, I know how to mix tracks together. And believe me, I let the art, like I'm fucking around with like, trying to chop up heavy metal and like mix like I, I'm a big
FW:That's sick though.
Nik:I'm trying to learn that and I wanna learn, I wanna learn how to be one of those DJs that can like really like chop shit up in the art of DJing. That's cool. But at the same time, I think when we're talking more about, you know Yeah. Playing festivals and all that, it's like The real talent of a DJ is can you entertain the crowd? And that should be your goal and do whatever you have to do in order to do that, right? So, yeah, cool. Well, look, we've talked a lot about DJing so far and I want to shift into really talking about, Frank Walker as an artist, as a music producer, as a songwriter. Um, so, but, Take me back a little bit to like where this all began for you. When did you start making music and how did you get into all of this in the first place? Yeah.
FW:Like I always loved music growing up. We kind of touched earlier on like how, when I fell into dance music, but before that, like my parents always like had music around me, like, Not what we typically would have, like my dad like always playing like Elton John. My mom loved like kind of country and folk stuff. I've always appreciated music of every kind of genre. went to like an art school growing up, but kind of hated it. Like I played trombone because I think it was easiest to cheat off of and like look at the person's slide position next to me. Um, never thought anything would come from it. Like did a couple of piano lessons. Through like middle school, yeah. And then kind of like music kind of took a backseat in my life for a bit. finished high school. I went to university near Toronto, did like, I got my business degree. But while we were doing that, um, I kinda, I think that's like, that would have been around the same time with like, we're talking about like that 20, like 11, was starting to blow up. And I was, like, lucky enough to be at a school, like, kind of like this pocket outside of Toronto, where a few of these schools had, like, a bunch of really, like, top and coming promoters who are booking these artists, like, Calvin Harris and Nabici, and, and, like, getting them for, like, cheap, like, like, booking them for, like, 2 grand, 3 grand, because these artists hadn't popped yet, and they're, like, playing in Toronto. It's like, hey, like, it's an hour drive. Come play here. We'll throw you some extra cash to play, like, another party. So I got really lucky getting exposed to those things, when I was in university, um, at the same time, I was playing rugby for my university. Our team was not very good. Uh,
Nik:wait, wait, wait. Hold up. Hold up. What position, what position did you play? We got to connect on the rugby pitch
FW:oh, I, uh, I played
Nik:was a long time rugby player as well.
FW:Oh, nice. I played, uh, I played like club rugby growing up a bunch. So I played flanker for my club and it was like a small ish flanker, but like. Quick, and then I went to university and they moved me to wing. And that was like from one of the most fun positions to a really boring position. And like, I don't know, it's like, it just wasn't like, it may be kind of like fall out of love with the game a bit. And our team wasn't good. And I'm like, I'm getting my ass kicked. And I'm like, like, I'm like, it's like kind of like, I'm not going to become a pro rugby player. Let's focus on school. But like, at the same time, we were throwing like fun house parties with the rugby team and the football team and all the teams, like with like all the varsity teams would like throw parties together. So I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna start DJing for fun. Yeah. At the time I had like a 400 tractor controller, kind of messing around with my laptop in a garage. And I'm like, this is way more fun than losing games every weekend. Um, let's see where this goes. And then I started playing bigger, like house parties and keggers. and that's how I kind of met that friend group where all the promoters in town started playing some local bars, started opening for bigger artists. And like through meeting bigger artists, kind of like found some good mentors along the way, started producing some horrible, horrible music. cause I didn't really know what I was doing. Because like I had like a musical background like knew like what I wanted stuff melodically to sound like but like didn't know any production stuff and like I'd go to my buddy Glenn. I'm like, what's this? Like, no, he's like, that's white noise. He's like, here's how you make it. Um, so I knew what I wanted it to sound like, but couldn't really do it. Um, fast forward a few years where I'm like, graduated was DJing in Toronto weekends for fun producing as a hobby. And kind of like, I forget how the conversation came up, but I was talking to my mom and she's like, what do you want to do? And I'm like, she's like, you're DJing a lot. Like, you're like, literally like staying up late Friday, Saturday, playing shows, driving around Ontario and coming back to the office on a Monday. And like, I can tell you're exhausted. And she's like, if you really want to do this, like, you need to give this a shot. Well, like you can, like, it's like, Like, go give it a shot for a year. She's like, she's like, you can't start DJing when you're like 40 or 50. And like, not saying you can't, cause you saw like Tiesto and Geta and Armin and all these guys are doing it. But like, they didn't start when they're 40 or 50. It's hard to get into it when you're that age. So I kind of like gave it a shot, took the production more seriously. Uh, Took a step away from my corporate life, fully composing, like, trying to, like, give 50 percent to both. Um, and yeah,
Nik:went all in.
FW:kind of, got us to where we are today. Like, I met my manager, Miles, who at the time had Kygo. Uh, he was down in Miami. Like, literally, like, we are connected through some family friends who, like, My mom's friends knew his mom and like, heard that he was looking for another artist. So, like, I flew from Toronto down to Miami, uh, for a meeting, kind of chilled with him for a day, kind of, like, figuring out what I wanted the vibe to be. And, like, we kind of liked that spot, I flew back to Toronto the next day, which is a Thursday, and he sends me another text like, Hey, man, I really love meeting you. I just want to make sure you vibe on a friend level more. Like me and my friends are all going to Orlando for like, to go to like Halloween horror nights this weekend. You should come with us. And I'm like, I just flew back home. So I got back on a flight down to Miami again, uh, went and like hung out with him for a couple days. And then like on Monday he sent over a contract and that's kind of when it became like like taking it, taking it to the next level. And like, like he's like, Hey, like we all get along if we're going to do this, like Kyle was working on an album. 4 or 5 months, like, develop a new artist, act out, and up to that point, I had music out, like, I'd put out a couple songs, I'd be like, self releasing, they're doing okay in Canada, uh, kind of self booking my tour, but that's when it kind of like, okay, we're starting to build a team around me and like, put proper, like, get an agent, get everything in place to like, make this a business and not just like, me being a hobbyist trying to, you know, As I go,
Nik:Yeah. So, I wanna ask about that. First, though, I wanna shout out rugby. Because, it was the rugby parties. That, that is, that started the DJ culture for you, the DJ journey for you, which is so rad. Cause for me, it was, just going to parties in high school. All the rugby parties were like the coolest, wildest, funnest parties. And then I ended up, I'm like, I want to hang out with these guys. And so that brought me into playing the sport. But a shout out to fucking rugby and rugby parties. Cause that's
FW:I love it. I miss the sports so
Nik:part of your journey and your history.
FW:I miss the sports so much. My body's just too broken from like, like a playing and not be sitting on planes so much. I feel like I couldn't even play touch my leg. I feel like my knees would explode. Um, but like, even through that, like, like I billeted, like two Scottish players from my club team over the summer, one summer, and they came and lived with me for two months. And like, they were showing me pendulum and like drum and bass. Cause like, it's obviously a way different music culture in Europe. And like, like I, like this would have been back when I was in like, Maybe high school or first year university like they're like showing me pendulum back before like pendulum had like any even like real like Like exposure outside of the UK
Nik:Yeah.
FW:definitely like in a weird way like got my foot in like the door in a weird in a weird way
Nik:it's woven into that. And, and it's funny. It makes sense. Cause you're, you're from Canada in high school. You know, like you guys don't play American football where
FW:we do but not well
Nik:Yeah, and not and not like as it's not as big at least from my perception, you know, because we would fly in high school, we would go up there for spring break, and we would stay with Canadian teams, and we would do a tour up there. And then vice versa, the Canadian teams would come down and they would stay with us once a year too. And so we'd have that. It's like a cool way to Bring different countries together. You know, that's like, that's what a beautiful thing about the sport is, I think, is it's a, the sportsmanship and the connection and the camaraderie is, is, is unlike anything else. So really cool to see that. Like that was a part of your, history and your story there. I'd love to,
FW:like huge part of it, but it's a good, but I don't need to go too deep at the sports, the sports path. But yeah, man, it's such a fun part of my life that I miss.
Nik:And so you know, you. Got to meet Miles, Kygo's manager. They decided to bring you on board, take a chance on you. What do you think it was about you that, because that's such an awesome opportunity, and I think that's so many people's dreams. It's like, to get in with a dope manager that knows what they're doing, that has the connections. What was it about you that had him say yes?
FW:I think it was a fact that like, he saw what I was, I think it's a few things. I think the fact that I came from like that business background first, like I kind of like had a lot of structure in place and I wasn't just like making music and throwing up on SoundCloud. Like I was already running some of my own marketing campaigns and like trying to fan gate some remixes and build a fan base and like stuff that I wasn't necessarily doing properly, but he saw that like, there was at least some kind of. Kind of potential in the way there, and then it had some success on my own, like, not by any means impressive, but I had a song that I put out like self release, like, through my own, like, kind of record label. I opened just like release my own stuff and distribute and had a song that in Canada did like 2 million streams without any help whatsoever. So then you saw the potential there and it's like, yeah. Kind of the drive that I had, and like with limited resources that I had to, and I think when I started working with them, I was able to level up like the songwriters I was working with and getting access to better demos, and proper big remix opportunities. And I don't know, like I was touring around all around Ontario and sometimes like around all Canada, uh, a couple of shows in the States without like having a real agent, just like self booking and stuff. So I think when you're trying to find a manager, if you're an artist that doesn't have one, like having as much ammo in place, you As possible, make their lift lighter, like, there's a bunch of amazing artists, but it's like, hey, like, I'm looking for a manager. It's like, well, it's like, how much work do you expect them to do? It's like, no one's as amazing as miles and the rest of the team is like, no one's going to care about your project as much as you like, you need to bring as much to the table as possible. Um, and for me, like, I was doing my own graphic design. Like, I have like. A proper logo and EPK and everything built to like, like, Hey, like, here's like all the marketing assets. You need to go pitch into a club. Like, I've like got one of my buddies in Toronto who's a videographer to make like a hype reel of everything I was doing. So it's not like I just had a couple, like good, SoundCloud songs and then kind of like expected him to do everything else. On the other end, Kygo, who's an amazing, amazing, talented artist and like pioneered a genre, he just had SoundCloud Remixes out, and because he was such an amazing artist, Miles found him and kind of DM'd him saying like, hey, like, we need to work together. So, and I'll say it can happen that way, but unless you're like a generational kind of talent who's going to make a genre, like, I think the more you can prove the value that you can provide, the better. And same thing with like club owners and stuff. It's like as good as your music is, like, if you go, it's like, hey, like. Here's like my following and not that's all about the following, but it's like hey, here's my followings Like hey, like we're down to do Ticketing giveaways or fan meet and greets or like we'll do shout outs for the show and like we'll engage with stuff It's like everyone. I don't think people like to like necessarily as much as they have to so it's like if you're like What to prove it's like hey Like I'm only like grind it out and like bust my ass to make sure the show sells Well, not it's been like hey, I'll throw up a flyer on my Instagram story sometimes that's enough if you've been to a market enough, people know you're there and they're hype, but like, if you're going to a new market, like, and the promoter doesn't know you, you got to be like, hey, like, I'm going to, I'm going to hustle on my end to get this done and get it across the line and make sure the show is going to be good.
Nik:Yeah. This is such an important thing for people to hear because I think a lot of artists are like waiting for the manager to come and then Make them famous and like do all the work or they're waiting for the promoter to book them so that then they can walk into a club full of people and it's like You got to take ownership for your career and for your life, you know Like you said nobody's gonna work as hard as you do so you can't be Waiting for other people also even from that perspective It's like who's a manager rather going to want to work with? Let's say they have all these artists to choose from. It's like, well, this, this dude is, he's already doing everything. They're going a hundred percent doing everything they possibly can. There's, there was, it sounds like there really was a, uh, a business mindset. Like you were learning the business, you were doing everything you possibly could in your own power. And I think that's just like the right kind of attitude is like, I'm going to do this with or without you. Do you want to get on board and help me? Right? Like I know that I'm actually steering the ship and even like, the perspective shift of, I think having a manager, it's like you can see yourself as like, I'm on this roster and they're going to carry me to success or I'm steering my own ship and I'm partnering with people that are going to help me get there, right? Like really having that sense of ownership. And, and I think that that's just a message that, that some people really do need to hear, right? It's like, that's the kind of person that a manager is going to want to work with in the first place. Um, but also like, yeah, you got to, You got to get some of that momentum going on your own if you're kind of at ground zero and you're not taking ownership, learning these things yourself. You know, at the end of the day, you are your own manager, right? I get it's almost like you're getting a co manager, but like you're never not going to be your own manager also. So I love Thio. I love to hear that. And it's Yeah, it's no surprise that he picked you up, you know, because you were already Yeah. grinding, working your ass off, running your own marketing campaigns. Like, you know, that's, it's like, uh, it's helping, helping a successful person become more successful is different than helping somebody who's not really doing anything yet become successful. you gotta. that first portion of the work yourself, I think, in most cases. Every now and then, yeah, maybe there's a Kygo one out of a, one out of a thousand. You invented a new genre, and you just get plucked out, and somebody, you know, makes it all happen for you, but that's, uh, very rare. Mm.
FW:I guess, like, 2 kind of points off that, like, there's the timing aspect where it's like, I saw, like, miles is the only manager I talked to, like, I was trying to find other managers and talking around and like, there's like a lot of like, it's not like the right time, but they love their music kind of thing or like, and he's picked a perfect store. I'm like, with miles. He also, he was working with Thomas Jack, but Thomas was kind of like, wanting to re envision himself as like, what genre he wanted to be in and took a step back from music. So. Cool. That's kind of like, when I had that conversation, I was like, Hey, we have like 4 or 5 months. Well, I have like a gap on this roster. Like, Thomas is stepping away for a little bit. Kyle was working on an album. I need something to do for 4 months. Like, it was like a right time situation. Like, I have a bunch of other managers who like, I'm good friends with in Toronto. Like, my buddy Josh Herman manages dubs and Borges and a bunch of artists, other artists at the time. And like, we're close family friends and we talk to each other and I'm like, Hey, like, let's see what we can do here. And he's like, that's great. But I'm just like, I'm overworked. Like, I don't have the time to.
Nik:Yeah.
FW:To try to, like, to bring it on right now, then, like, I think it goes back to, like, like, having as much in line as possible. And I don't think that ever, like, really stops. Like I said earlier, like, no one's going to care about your project as much as you. And obviously, in the past few years, like, tick tock is shaking the game up a time. And at first I'm like, hey, like, We were on it a bit, I like got busy, took a step back, and I'm like, hey, I'm making really good music, like, that'll get me good shows, and like, it's just so competitive, there's so many talented people out there, and I'm like, these artists who are like, getting TikTok followings and don't have any original music out are getting booked, not me, so kind of like, it was like a bit of a rude awakening, where it's like, you need to play the social media game, and like, as much as extra work, and like, it is for me, and I don't want to do it, now it's like, every week, it's like, okay, I'm gonna go crate dig and find like, A trending song and, like, put it with something that's big and, like, make sure it's my social media moment for the set. So, like, I post this going in and tell my photographer, it's like, oh, get some cool photos and maybe a cool video moment. Now it's like, hey, we need to get this mashup for, like, filmed, like, proper angle from behind me and make sure the lighting's good. Like, this is the snippet for, like, for socials to, like, highlight for the week to show that, you know, we're like a creating new like mashups all the time and be trying to trip the algorithm and not saying that without it It wouldn't get gigs But like I think it's important to like you have to like kind of play within the ecosystem Unless you're like a massive artist already, but like i'm still considering myself growing and trying to like hustle to get bigger gigs like For a while i'm like, oh like the music will be good The sets are good, but like you need to play you need to use everything to your advantage because if you're not someone else Probably won't play Probably is going to do and someone's going to be hungry and is going to want it more than you.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. And so, something I talk a lot about, uh, On the podcast is also branding and just like, not just, you know, visual identity of a brand, but really what is just your brand as an artist. I like to say like the music is the soundtrack to the movie, but what else? A lot of people are following artists these days, not just because they have great music and they play great shows, but there's something else about that artist that's, that they're following, right? I got, yeah. 10 artists I can choose from. Why am I going to follow this guy or really be a fan of that guy or pay tickets to go see this guy? You know, like, yes, the music is a big part of it. But I feel like there also is something there or there should be something else there. from you, like you've got, you kind of, you got the hits, bro. You're, you're fucking music is like cruising on Spotify. You got like, uh, like tens of millions, hundreds of millions of fucking plays. You got the music, you got the shows and all of that. I'm curious for you. Outside of the music and the shows, you know, what else do you bring to your audience? And is that sort of like a conscious decision that you're making to like, outside of the music? How do you kind of connect with the fans?
FW:Yeah, I think as a matured as an artist more like I think my visual side is always kind of pretty dialed like the visual identity because like in high school like I loved like art and like I took art class and like I did graphic design when I was supposed to be in computer science class I was photoshopping my friends into stupid pictures so like I was always able to keep the branding on like the visual side pretty dialed and like I've always feel like my logo has been good my album artwork's been good uh and for a while I thought that was like enough on the branding side but like Kind of coming into this album cycle, like I started to get more. It's been like three years ago. I've found like, that's what I kind of realized. I'm like, Hey, like, I really love this throwback genre. It's like, it's one I'm playing in my sets that I love the most. Like, why am I not digging into this? And I think over the years I've had really good productions, but it was kind of like, Hey, like, here's a trend here. Here's a trend here. Let me hop on it. And as it become more like leaning into what I really love, I think a, my songs have gotten even better. Cause like. There's a bit more direction behind it, and like, I was like, Hey, I want like emotional lyrics, but like emotional lyrics that fit the setting and like, have that nostalgic feeling. And that was kind of the first step into that, like, kind of more the, the feeling of my brand. And then I became more vocal about it on social media. And I'm like, Hey, like, like, I really love the sound. I want to bring it back. Like, if you guys are on board with it, like, drop a comment or follow along. We did that. Maybe like, I made a post, maybe like, 18 or 20 months ago and like talking about I go dancing my song and it got like crazy, crazy engagement. And I'm like, wow, there's a bunch of other people that feel this way. And like, they're along for the ride and that kind of inspired me. It's like, I should do an album like this. So I think it's about like finding that, like what you want the feeling to be. And I think it's more than just the visual side. Like that's more of the emotional connection. I found this there. It's like, Hey, like, this is the emotion I want my music to, to kind of show. And like back to Dave Risch to you, talked about earlier from palm tree records. It's like, We're talking about like Forrester and other artists on our label and like their visuals are very like naturey and they have this kind of sound and he's like, we did a branding kind of questionnaire that he did with Forrester before that was effective for them. And it's like, what does like, like, what does Forrester smell like, which is a really weird question, but for them, it's like, kind of like earthy, like, like you're sitting in a forest, like being able to say these things about your brand. And if you have a brand that can do those things, I think it's super effective. And not like they're very nature oriented to be looking at artists, like a millennium. It's like people like you kind of like. I don't know exactly what the word is, but like, you know, what a Lenny shows are going to be like, and everyone that goes to an Illenium show feels the same way. And like, even though you are there for the first time and maybe having met the people before you, like you all know, you're part of like, you almost feel like you're part of a community who wants to experience the same emotions together and have the same feelings together. And I think that's where you get into more like the soft points of branding, where it's like, I think when you can build that community and it's still something I'm working on, like, cause I've really only found, I think my, my real identity in the past 18 months, but like when you can build that, I think that's how you really. Elevate your brand, but you take that next level and because I become more vocal about it, like my buddy audien is doing all his progressive house never died shows because he's kind of stuck with the sound. He reached out to us and he's like, Hey, like, I love what you're like, I love how you become a vocal about it that you're trying to bring the sound back. Like, so am I, but you start to build a kind of collective. Like, he's put me on a bunch of his progressive house, never died shows. and that's like, helped him like, a have more artists on his shows that like. Contribute to his brand, but also helps me find kind of like minded artists and fans that like what I want to be doing. So I feel like once you have like that kind of like that feeling and that emotion around your brand, I think that's like the most valuable thing you can do, right? Like you're trying to make fans that are like minded to you and like, feel like they know you as a person and not just like your music. And I think that as I'm learning that more, it's like helping me connect with fans and develop a fan base and build a brand beyond like, Hey, like here's a cool logo or a cool visual, which I think is super, super important.
Nik:Well, that's really insightful to me because I think I have been really Pushing a lot of my clients around like, Hey, figure out like what outside of the music is going to be a part of your brand. But also really like for you, the music and the specific style of music and that throwback and that emotion, like that actually really is becoming the brand, right. Or at least a big, significant portion of it. So it's, it's insightful for me to where it's like, okay, how you're making the music and why you're making the music and what you're making actually really can. Be the brand as well. It doesn't, you know, for some people, it's like the music is actually a little part of the brand. It's like, they're more about like, what's the wild shit that they're, you know, doing online or whatever little gimmick that they're following. But, um, it's cool to see that.
FW:people. Like you have a diplo or a Dylan Francis and like, they have amazing music, but also like people like love them as like individuals. Cause they're quirky. And like, I've talked about my team a bunch, like, like, Oh, like look what these guys are doing. And it's, I'm just not like the kind of person that can like be that goofy. It's just like not in my nature. So I need to find like that more, like I went with like the more nostalgic kind of like emotional route, but like, there's so many ways you can
Nik:what's authentic.
FW:yeah, but people also like. For me, it's authentic to me that I feel this way for them. That's authentically them being them. And people feel like, like for like diploid, people feel like the no Wes or the no Dylan Francis, cause they're so kind of like forward on socials and show off their personality. Um, good mid there probably is more extroverted than me. And that's the way their personality is. But like, I think there's so many ways you can go about it. Like that's the way that they. I found that works for them to connect to their fans. For me,
Nik:For sure.
FW:like, I'm building that emotional connection. And back when I not to go back to the album again, but like, before I started, I'm like, Hey, like, what are my 25, like, favorite tracks of all time? Like, Whether it be like an Alesso song or like a Coldplay song, or like, the one headlight by like the wallflowers is on there and stuff where it's like, I was like, remember, and for me, I was like, why do I love all these songs? And it's because like, I remember a moment when I first heard them. And like, it's like, Hey, like, I remember where I was when I heard this, or like, this is the memory attached. And I think I want to make those memories for other people. And like, that's my way of connecting with fans and showing them like, Hey, we experienced similar feelings. Cause I guess that's the way like, Kind of, it's my like, my, my emotional love language and making music, maybe opposed to being quirky. And like, I don't know, some people like everyone has a different personality. You define what clicks with you and resonates with other people, I guess.
Nik:Yeah, well, I really love that we landed on this idea of authenticity of doing what is real for you, what feels good for you. You know, you also mentioned how there was a moment where maybe you were kind of like following trends and chasing trends a little bit earlier as you're, you know, finding your sound and developing as an artist, but you did say like you started making stuff that you were You really loved more at some point like you actually really started leaning into what actually like feels good and you're having fun with and so uh I think that's such a such an important part of the process, you know I I see so many artists that get lost because they are just like, all right Well, what's happening in the scene and what's happening in the industry and like let me go make this or make that and and yeah While you can become successful at that you can also really become unfulfilled and so to keep following You You know, like, it's really cool to see that, that you've pivoted, you know, really more towards that.
FW:yeah, it took me a while to become comfortable with that. Like I've definitely done songs that were like, I've loved everything I've put out. Like I wouldn't put out something I didn't love, but like, I think it's more like, Knowing what I really want to do. And obviously like everyone says like, Oh, I don't care about the streams. Like everyone cares about the streams. Like if I'm putting a single out, I want it to stream well. But for the album, it's like, I find, cause I love everything that's on there for a debut album. And like, I'm not like, I'm not looking at my Spotify app every day. It's like, Oh, how many streams did they get today? And like, I feel like it's more about like people, like it's more gratifying that people are like, Oh, I just listened through this album. Like I love every single track. It's like having those kinds of connections is getting, becoming more important for me. And maybe that's as a symptom of me. Having a lot of streams on stuff. So maybe I become less conscious about it. But like, for me, I really love what I'm doing now. I'm like, I'm doing it for myself. And I'm probably niching down more than what I did before. But I'd rather have like a really solid group of people that love what I'm doing as much as I do, opposed to trying to go after a radio hit. and if that radio hit comes, it's like more of a cherry on top than like, Then, like, trying to, I don't know, like, it's like, it's a very, like, negative emotional cycle. You're just chasing that hit all the time, and if you don't get it, then you get angry with yourself or your management team or your label or your radio promoter. And this is, like, not as healthy of a way to develop as an artist and, like, especially because this ecosystem is so, I don't know, like, it's like you're in the spotlight. It's like, if you're, I don't know, you need to be happy with what you're doing or it's going to take a toll on you, like, kind of, like, Personally, I feel.
Nik:A thousand percent, man. Well said. And everyone that I know that's ever written a really big hit, They weren't trying to write a really big hit when they wrote it. And then most of them then go try to follow it up by writing a really big hit. And nobody ever writes a big hit because then they're trying. And that's kind of the secret sauce, I think, right? When you're just following, like, what is fun and what are you enjoying? And that's usually when you're going to make the best shit.
FW:Yeah. Like my first ever radio song that like did really well in Canada, like that went like top 10, like my first ever gold record is a song called heartbreak back. That's like super down tempo. It's like typically for people that don't listen to dance music, dance music is like 120 to 130 BPM. Like the song was 88 beats per minute, like super, super slow, super mellow laid back. And like it just crushed on Canadian radio, uh, like hit number one on BPM in the, like in the States, like the dance station. And like, no one expected it. And I tried to recreate it a couple of times and everything else flopped. So it's like, but like, I don't know, it's like, there's something special about the song. We came out of that session, having written the vocal with like, it was just like pianos, like in a snap and a vocal and everyone's like, okay, the song's going to be big. And there was no production behind it yet. Like people just knew. Yeah, I think when you start chasing it, like, And over analyzing stuff, and like, I fall into that trap to where it's like, oh, like, this, like, doesn't rhyme perfectly, or it's like, it needs to fit this scheme. And like, I don't know, I think you need to sometimes just follow, like, what feels right in the moment to get stuff. I don't know, like, to be happy with it, not like, not necessarily like, what is radio going to want? And realistically, if they come back to you radio, they go, I need to edit it anyways to get rid of a build or something. So. No matter how much you try to appease them, they're never, they're never going to be happy. So follow what you want to do for yourself.
Nik:So you mentioned dropping an album. Origin is the name of the album. Congrats as well for dropping a full album of music. Like, that is quite a heavy lift. And I'm curious about What made you decide to put out an album rather than, Hey, let's just put out singles for the next year, right? Like, especially in the sort of EDM industry and culture, we're usually more of a singles driven, industry. So what made you decide to put out a full album?
FW:Um, I definitely dad singles rolling into it. So I got to put an album out of the blue. Like there was like 14 tracks and five were out before, but in like, in the words of Dave Rifty upon the records, like in today's economy, which is way more singles driven, it was a bold choice to put on an album. Um, cause it's a lot more work for everyone to try to like, I don't know, make sure every song does well and make sure nothing flops. But, but for me, like, I was producing a lot and we weren't able to get music out fast enough. And that was also because, like, songs like I Go Dancing were like, I don't know, we're like, we wanted to put another single out. It's like, oh, like, it's like charting now on dance radio. We need to push it back. So I feel like I wasn't putting enough stuff out. And I was building up this backlog of like music and demos that I had, kind of sitting on a hard drive. And in the back of my mind, I'd always wanted to do an album. Uh, it makes me it was a bit more than just like going after a single. So you can get like some songs that are a bit more like album songs that are cool and like serve a purpose, but maybe wouldn't stream as well as a single. So I think talking to Dave and the rest of the management team and miles and like, we're kind of like, Hey, like, I think it's time to like, to do one. Like we have like, Half the album sitting on a hard drive already, like, let's put the other six or seven songs together, and make it work. And I think I was like, kind of like that nostalgic message kind of like came as I was writing more stuff, like, we had a few singles, I'm like, hey, like, this is why I love this one. It kind of happened organically, like, I knew I wanted to do an album, but it wasn't like, hey, this is how many tracks needs to be, like, we didn't have the name of the album to like, Maybe like a month and a half after it was done. I'm like, Hey, like, let's figure out the names of origin. Like I'm going back to kind of my roots, like my origin story for EDM. So yeah, it wasn't like a, it wasn't necessarily a decision that was like driven by the business side. It was more like, Hey, like, this is what I want to do. Probably won't stream as well as if they were all singles, but like, I think collectively as a package, they work well and it's resonating with bands and going well, so, yeah. Yeah, it was kind of like a follow your heart kind of moments like let's do it. Fuck it. We're putting an album out.
Nik:yeah good problems to have I am making so much music and I'm in such a good creative flow and making so much Dope shit that I have a lot of stuff to give to the world
FW:Yeah, and it's not always like that. Like now I'm after the album cycle. I'm going back to like, I feel like the past 4 or 5 months. I've just been like, hey, finishing stuff up like the last bit of polish, mix and master. And now I'm going back in this dude and try to write stuff fresh again. And like, trying to go back to like that creative mindset where it's okay. Like I'm writing something from scratch again. It's like, I'm kind of like. You got to return that brain muscle on like, there's a couple of sessions where I'm like, what am I doing here? So not like it's horrible, but like, it's not like when you're in that flow of like, just producing every day for months and not need to worry about like, the more technical side, it definitely is like a muscle you need to keep training. And like, if I go back into a studio session to write after not having written for months, it's always like that 1st hour is kind of like. What am I doing? I need to like turn the brain back on
Nik:And I would say actually you need to turn the heart back on
FW:for
Nik:do you do, do you feel that now that you've dropped the album is sort of the business strategy mindset creeping into the creative process of like, okay, where, should I go now that I dropped an album? Right. As opposed to like, what's fun now and what actually feels good now? Like, is, is there a little bit of a head game creeping in there for you with your creative process?
FW:I haven't thought of it that way, but probably like, I think lyrically, I know what I love and that'll always kind of be that ballad y lyric. It's hard for me to break out of that. And like, I've actually, I'm trying to be like, how do I make something that's a bit more club oriented? That's not like a full blown, like verse chorus, pre chorus, like properly arranged songs. That doesn't work well for clubs sometimes. So I'm trying to break that mold a bit to do some stuff that's a bit more club oriented, but still have my kind of that throwback production feel with like that kind of euphoric. Um, but yeah, it's like I'm not trying to overthink it. Like, I think, like, I'm not like deviating away from the messaging I have on the album because it's what I want to do and it's organic to myself. So I think I'll stay with that. Um, but yeah, it's definitely like, it's a good problem to have to go back in the studio and like, I'm, I don't know, I love making music and, oh, it's about touring. It's like, it's hard because I've been touring so much lately. It's like, I feel like it's hard to come, sometimes you play a festival and you get super, super inspired. Sometimes if you're grinding it out, like I had three shows in 24 hours last weekend, you come back home and you're trying to sit in the studio on Monday. It's like, I, Nothing's turning up in the brain right now. Like I can't, like, I'm just like exhausted. So I think it's important to block off that time to be creative and let yourself experience, I don't know, like I think from the emotional side of writing an album or writing songs, you need to be like emotionally connected to stuff and it's hard to be kind of in touch emotionally if you're, you know. Exhausted,
Nik:Totally. You know, it's interesting. I talk about this more for like the up and coming artists where You can't just be in the studio all the time. You also got to go live your life and you got to go have some experiences and fill your cup up so that you have something to talk about. You know, and I haven't really thought about it from this perspective, but if like all you're doing is getting on flights, playing shows, getting in the studio, getting on flights, playing shows, getting in the studio, There's this other piece of it, which is like living, you know, just like living and enjoying your life. And I feel like that's such an important thing to, to tap into just to, just to fill up your heart and your soul and, and tap into some of that life force energy to bring back into the studio with you. So I could see how that might be hard sometimes as well.
FW:Yeah. And it's making those unique experiences that kind of inspire lyrics. Like, I don't know why this is jumping to my head, but like, Chainsmokers Closer, like that, like Roommate Back in Boulder line. Like those are all ones where it's like, they rhyme, but like, I feel like that had to have been something that was inspired by an actual situation. Like no one's going to be talking about Boulder, Colorado, unless like it's an actual moment, you know? And like, Having those real human moments inspires your music, and it's so important to have something that's not just like bland, throwaway pop lyrics. Um, and not saying like, I'm probably like one of the most cheesy pop lyric DJs around right now, but you have those like, you have like a really cheesy line, but something really meaty afterwards where it's like, hey, it's like not just like, It's okay, that line's cheesy, but here's why it's cheesy, and here's the emotion behind it, and like, it's like actually ballad y, and not just like writing sappy lyrics for the sake of writing a sappy song. It's like, there's like, here's why I feel this way, or this is why I'm happy, or this is why I'm sad, or this is why you're feeling this way, as opposed to just writing a song for the sake of writing a song.
Nik:yeah, yeah, you gotta go live, have those experiences. I have one more question for you. Because when I interviewed Dave Rischte, he brought up that branding question about what does your Brand smell like what does your artist project smell like he mentioned that I thought that was so funny and so clever So what does Frank Walker smell like not the human right now sitting there drinking coffee. What's the brand of Frank Walker smell like
FW:I feel like that's always been such a tough one for me to answer. Like I, for me, like I was gravitated more to Dave's like, what does it taste like? And for me, it was like a good, like, like kind of like dark chocolate. So it's a bit like bittersweet, like where it's like, it leaves you longing, but not like overly, like overly too much of a good thing. Uh, so it's like, I got like a bittersweet dark chocolate. It's kind of like what the brand tastes like. I don't know if that smells like anything is chocolate. Doesn't know. I guess like it can kind of smell like that, but that's kind of my, my answer there. Like something where it's like something you want.
Nik:like a cafe mocha, warm Starbucks for,
FW:There's some bitter, there's some bitter undertones, but also like a hint of sweetness there. It gives you like, I don't know. So you have like that kind of longing for the chocolate, but also the coffee gives you some energy. That's probably a good one. I'm going to start using that. Thank you for helping me answer this question. A cafe mocha
Nik:I think for for everyone listening. This is your question for the week. What does your brand smell like? I would love to hear your answers because I'm sure there's some pretty fun smelling brands out there. Uh, here's another question. What is the headliner mindset? I would love to know what y'all think this, uh, this little brand smells like. But Frank, this was super, this was super fun. I am so stoked to see you bringing the golden era of 2010s melodic vibes back into the EDM space. That is where I come from. I love that shit. I also love that you are a fellow. Rugby player, brother. That's the beautiful thing about that. This sport is any time you meet me, any other warrior that has, you know, gone onto the battlefield, there's like an automatic brotherhood. Uh, just,
FW:may not look
Nik:that sport. Yeah.
FW:that's where my, uh, my roots, that's my real origin story right there playing rugby.
Nik:love it, man. I love it. But yo, thank you so much for taking the time to come on today. Really cool to hear about your story and really love what you're up to.
FW:Thanks for having me. Anytime you want me back, I'm down to come back. It's a great chat.
