MAKJ - How To Succeed As A DJ In The Modern EDM Industry

MAKJ is a seasoned vet in the dance music industry. Launching his career in 2012 at the height of the dance music explosion in the Unites States, he has toured the world many times over, played at major festivals like EDC, Ultra and Coachella, put out multiple #1 Beatport hits and collaborated with A-list artists like Hardwell, Steve Aoki and more.

In the episode we talk about where he gets his drive for success, the importance of developing relationships to ensure longevity in your career, how the industry has changed, the reality of ghost production and more.

Follow MAKJ here:
https://www.instagram.com/makj

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Transcript

Mackenzie: 0:00

were a lot of guys that were going to icon at the time. There was Sam who was Jaws. There was Keizo who was my roommate. And we didn't, have a plan B. And that is such a different kind of mentality than all these guys nowadays. That was It was do or die. do

Nik: 0:33

What's up, everybody. Welcome to the headliner mindset podcast. Today's guest launched his career as an artist, DJ, and producer back in 2012 at the height of the dance music explosion in the U S he quickly became a main stage staple in the big room house scene, putting out number one hits, collaborating with A list artists like Hardwell and Steve Aoki, touring all over the world and playing major festivals like Coachella, EDC, and Ultra. Uh, This is Mac J.

Mackenzie: 1:03

I felt like I'm about to walk

Nik: 1:04

Mac motherfuckin J!

Mackenzie: 1:08

That was it. That was

Nik: 1:11

Yo. That's it, baby. Uh, this is so rad to have you on here um, because we have known each other for a very, very long time and, uh, we have a lot to dig into today. So first off, man, thank you for being here. It's good to see you. I love you. I miss you.

Mackenzie: 1:32

first interaction ever.

Nik: 1:35

Icon Collective, let's start there. You know, I was thinking about this as I was taking some notes and kind of reflecting on what I wanted to dig into today, but you are the one, and I'll say this boldly, you are the one that put Icon Collective on the map. You were really, you were, you were really the first graduate that like Popped off and really truly became successful like really truly became A national and internationally touring artist and like I literally I just interviewed Uh, a couple of weeks ago, another graduate and he was like, I heard of icon because I saw like an article about this guy, Mac J that went to icon and there's probably 500 other examples, you know, and that's why icon was successful was because graduates started becoming successful, but like it was you and then prototype kind of around the same time. But, um, yeah, how does it, how does that feel to know that you are actually. One of the first people that really sparked the legacy of Icon Collective.

Mackenzie: 2:39

to Icon. My whole career kind of started with Icon. Um, I had a little bit of DJ experience, like two or three years, kind of getting into the open format scene with DJing, which kind of was a catalyst of the Mac J project. It was DJ Mac J. It's like the Facebook.

Nik: 2:59

Hmm. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Mackenzie: 3:01

I that extra push. I needed that, uh, education, you know, I dropped out of college. That was rough. You know, my parents were like, what are you doing? You know, this was also.

Nik: 3:11

Why did you drop out of college?

Mackenzie: 3:14

it wasn't right. I mean, everyone kind of has their moment. And for me, at that time was, wasn't a waste of time, but I felt like I wasn't pursuing something that I, this is a very cliche, cliche answer, but I wasn't pursuing something that I saw myself doing. And at the time where I was living, San Luis Obispo is a very California town. It smells like cow poop and sourdough bread. Like the college runs the area and There really opportunity besides what the college was bringing to the table, which was Cal Poly Cal Poly did open a lot of doors for me. So there was nothing against the educational system. It just wasn't for me. And there's no music programs. There was zero, music programs. And I remember going back to, uh, Cal Poly and doing a music, um, kind of seminar. And there was maybe a couple hundred people. And they're like, we don't have anything in the music, uh, degree relation with anything. And I'm like, There should be more of a push for that. Regardless, just wasn't something for Mackenzie in San Luis Obispo. And my mom and my stepdad really started to notice that. And so I started going to and from LA all the time. Shout out DJ Polotic. let me stay at his house all the time, which was wild.

Nik: 4:34

So you knew, you knew that you wanted to do music instead? Was that, that passion kind of burning at that time?

Mackenzie: 4:42

didn't know I wanted to do music. I wanted to do something that was different than what I was doing. And music kind of came to me through fraternities. I was never in a frat. But what fraternity brotherhood brought me was opportunities to DJ those parties. And so there was a called Sigep that was at Cal Poly, and they would hold the formals. They would hold the exchanges and, you know, with the sororities and the fraternities, they would have, you know, parties together. And I remember knocking on the door one day and I said, Hey, can I DJ? And the guy's like, no, we already have a DJ.

Nik: 5:18

walked

Mackenzie: 5:18

yeah,

Nik: 5:19

Hello! Like, like, Door to door salesman, can I DJ at your house?

Mackenzie: 5:24

up with was like, Hey, you going to this party tonight? And I'm like, no. And she's like, you should DJ it. So, uh, yeah, I tried to hustle a little bit and I got, I was told no plenty of times, but there was this one time where I guess persistence was the answer. Right. was this one time where I knocked on the door and I guess the guy was in a good mood, Dylan Flynn, and Dylan Flynn said, sure, but we're not going to pay you. But if we like you, you could continue to play for us. Right. And that was basically my first, I was 17 at the time, 17, maybe 18 at the time. Um,

Nik: 5:59

even in

Mackenzie: 5:59

no,

Nik: 6:01

You were like a child still. Yeah.

Mackenzie: 6:05

no, uh, Beatport wasn't really a thing. There was really nothing to get music from. I was getting these CDs every single month from random Craigslist guys and I was burning music onto them. Like, it was early, early. Serato just came out. Which, Serato was a massive game changer for the DJ community because you were able to take everything from your iTunes and put it onto your Serato, which you had access to everything instead of carrying crates and CDs. Um, so. I came into the fraternity and I played exactly what they wanted. And at the time, like Daft Punk was becoming a thing and, um, yeah, it just worked and I built a relationship and that's one thing about, I, I really do believe that going to school, it's not about the education, which maybe it might be for people that are trying to pursue like a degree in something. But the handshakes are everything in college. Just having

Nik: 7:02

yeah, yeah, yeah,

Mackenzie: 7:05

your years of youth. You'll be friends with these people for the rest of your life. So after that whole shebako, after two years of two years doing that, making, you know, like a thousand bucks a weekend. And I was like, Oh my God, I'm rich, you know? So I was still living at home with my mom. And I was like, I got to go. I had an aha moment. At the time, DJ AM actually found me on MySpace, and I was giving out these edits. So I kind of skipped the chapter where I was dabbling around with production a little bit. It was like Sony Acid, it was, you know, something really basic and crappy. I was making all these edits that I would be playing at these fraternity parties. And I was able to kind of spread it. Through media fire at the time, mega upload, and all these DJs were downloading it. And AM actually hit me up with a few other guys in LA and I didn't know who AM was. And he was like, Hey, you should come open for me at this spot called Truesdale's. And I think it's called Bootsy Bellows But Truesdale's was

Nik: 8:10

yeah, I remember that.

Mackenzie: 8:13

of club. Like LA club scene was Magazine. There Instagram. There was like MySpace. Facebook wasn't around. Like this was, you only on reality TV shows, people magazine, like this pinnacle era of DJs. And, uh, yeah, I opened And that was kind of the, that's kind of where it that. And I just kind of kept my head down and through the years I kept DJing and making a little money. I moved to LA uh, next thing you know, I'm, I'm going to icon. And so yeah, back full where is where I kind of put more tools into my toolbox. you would want to say,

Nik: 8:55

Mm, I'm already hearing, um, So many cool themes here and I want to tie this in by sharing with you something that I share with a lot of people. I use you as an example all the time when I talk about. Grind and hustle and putting in hours because I think that you had either maybe just graduated or like when I just when I right when I started teaching at icon, I think you had just graduated or maybe I caught you like at your last quarter. So I was I was I was pretty new at icon. But I remember I would come in to work at, you know, maybe 99 or 10 a. m. You would already be there. And I would have my work day. I would have six, seven, eight hours of work and I'd get off at four or five, six o'clock. You'd be sitting in the same chair that you were at at nine in the morning when I got there and you would just have your laptop and your headphones on and you'd be working. It's something that always stuck with me because I was like, this dude was the first one in and the last one out. Every fucking day, like putting in hours, right? And so I use you as an example because I think one, that's something that you can't skip. You can't not put in the hours. You can't not, You know, really earn your stripes in that way. Like if you want to be good at making music, you got to sit your ass down and get good at making music. And I'm really curious to, to pick your brain a little bit because I got to see that firsthand of just like, damn, this dude sits down and gets the fucking work done. And then, yeah, of course, a year later you're flying all over the world, like killing it. But what I also hear in your story is that. At 17 years old, you were knocking on doors and you were hustling. You are also getting a taste for making money. You are also getting a taste of rejection, like having people say no, were getting a taste of getting thrown in the deep end and bombing, you know, a set it's really clear that you've just always had a very driven and focused mindset. And I guess I'm curious about like where that comes from.

Mackenzie: 11:13

yeah, it's deep. Um, my parents for sure. My dad was an extremely hard worker. Um, he, he gave me a very amazing life as a kid and my two older brothers, we had a really amazing upbringing. Um, my mom is a great worker, but my stepdad to me has been kind of. The forefront of my work ethic and he is a grinder and, um, Steve has been kind of there for me through my whole life. And, um, he, he's the one that kind of put me into a racing background and long story short with the racing thing, wasn't everyone kind of sees racing now on the whole drive to survive thing, which is amazing. It's all, it's all political, which it is. Everything's political. It's great,

Nik: 11:57

Such a good

Mackenzie: 11:57

it, right? man's drama. Um, but with, with it's opened a lot of, uh, people's mind to how political racing is. And I feel like racing has been the driving factor, no pun intended, to my careers, having great work ethic. Shaking hands, looking understanding that money doesn't grow on trees, relying on a plan B. There's always just you do your plan A, never do a plan B, you know? And so when I of rejection, I anymore. And I'm sitting here going, what does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? So, that was my early taste on work ethic, was racing. And that, that's money. uh, relationships, you know, all of it that comes in. I, I feel like that, that's what kind of made it little easier for me to do what I was doing at an

Nik: 12:55

Yeah, I wanted to ask about that, that racing background. I know that's part of your story. Was that like F1, like dream, like kind of feeder to kind of go into that or, or like, cause I, I, I'm just going to sidebar real quick. I fucking love the drive to survive show, but genuinely curious about what kind of racing you were involved with, you know? And

Mackenzie: 13:17

funny enough. a go kart. This was, that's my stepdad. rad.

Nik: 13:24

Oh, cool. He's got a picture of early Mac J and the go kart days. Yeah. Like, was that a dream for you, though, at some point? Where you were like, I wanna be like, or

Mackenzie: 13:35

Of

Nik: 13:36

something? Like Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Mackenzie: 13:40

um,

Nik: 13:41

Yeah,

Mackenzie: 13:41

racing that my stepdad, my stepdad never had had kids. So he adopted three of us, which shout out to him. That's a great human being, right? He was a great stepdad, is still is one of my best friends. Him and I do a ton of business together, which again, that's also has. Taught me how to respect a lot of people because he's put me in my place as someone in my family member in a lot of different situations. But back to the racing, the, the kind of came about was it was super early. You know, I'm young. My stepdad's like, let's do it. I have a passion for it. want you to have a passion for it. And I really didn't know too much as it's like a T ball or playing baseball. They don't know if they're going to go pro or not, but they just continue to hustle. That's all due to having someone that's motivating you to do it, right? And that was my stepdad. And so me into all these different situations. I was traveling the world. I was meeting new people from different, uh, states and different countries. So it was bringing a lot of, uh, open mindedness to situations that as any other teenager wasn't getting by just going to high school. So, guess it gave me more of a worldly approach on life. You know,

Nik: 14:55

Yeah. And that's really interesting, cause I was I wanted to ask about racing, cause As I saw you in your, you know, kinda Whatever, probably early twenties, you know, back in, you know, icon days. And I just saw that level of focus and drive. I was thinking like, okay, there's probably a connection like of him being like a race car driver and competitive and wanting to win. But what I'm hearing was it, it, it almost seems like a bigger benefiting factor from that was. Like you're saying, kind of your exposure to the world and being able to kind of play the politics game and shake hands and work and meet with a lot of different types of people, which obviously is such an essential skill set to have in order to navigate the music business, which is so many different, yeah, relationships and scenarios and whatnot.

Mackenzie: 15:47

is literally everything now in the music industry. Um, we will get to that. going back to how you used to see me as this like stinky smelly kid, always behind his computer, just geeking out. were a lot of guys that were going to icon at the time. There was Sam who was Jaws. There was Keizo who was my roommate. And we didn't, didn't have a plan B. And that is such a different kind of mentality than all these guys nowadays. I mean, I don't want to throw names out, but at the same time, I feel like with the, with the invention of social media, there are so many different things you could be doing at, at any given time, which kind of gives your focus more of an ADD. You don't know what to do. How much percentage am I fully going to give this a, or should I go to B or should I go to C? I had a, that was It was do or die. do It was going to Trader Joe's every night, buying pre made meals, at the computer, sitting at the desk at Icon, drinking pot coffee and, you know, and wanting to smoke cigarettes, but I'm like, that's bad for you. I don't want to do that, but just grinding and grinding and grinding and grinding. And for me to say that I was just sit behind your computer for 15 hours a day. I honestly wish I could take early McKenzie. And put them into my body. That's what's so wild about this. Like are so many, moments where I'm like, ah, sitting in my beautiful studio and my beautiful house with my beautiful girlfriend. Yeah. Let me just get up and go and like have a cheeseburger, you know, like there's not a fire under my ass that how I, how I had it when I was at icon, because I wasn't thinking about anything else besides make music. You cannot buy that. I wish I could just take And, take a pill of that.

Nik: 17:41

what was lighting that fire at that time?

Mackenzie: 17:45

a hundred percent fear. It was fear, fear, fear. I didn't, I had like 7, 000 over the years of working and DJing. I was paying for icon. Uh, I was paying 600 bucks a month to share a room with two other guys like fear. I mean, as much as, uh, I don't, I want to say it's something else. It was straight fear. And I always knew that I had an amazing family that would always be like, you know what? Maybe you should try something else. They're, they're, uh, you know, super supportive, which I love my family for that. But at the same time, I didn't want that. I always was like, I need to do something to show my parents. I did it. I made it. I dropped out of college because I wanted to do this. So the motivation was, Make music, do something that I'm actually into, focus on it, and just do the thousand hour rule. And that is just grind your ass off until shit, never, always grind. I mean, you saw it. It was just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind.

Nik: 18:49

Yeah, it And it was the fear of what that was driving you?

Mackenzie: 18:54

fear of not having anything. The fear of not being able to have The life that I was wanting early on where I said, you know what, I'm going to take this massive risk of dropping out of school, getting in my car, driving to LA and something that I had no idea what it took to become that. so I guess the fear was just, the fear of right. Just going back home every Thanksgiving and being like, Hey, you know, that's that I never was do. And it's easy for me to say that because I've past that in my life. But at the same time, I have been in the slumps. was like, I'm going to give up. I don't want to do this. There was just a whole, a hodgepodge of emotions and insecurities and just doubts. And, you know, I feel like the biggest thing that actually can save that from anyone is hard. Simple as that. Hard work.

Nik: 20:02

Yeah, what kept you going in those moments where you had the doubts come up the insecurities and want to quit? Like, what made you keep going?

Mackenzie: 20:13

a lot of the other students from Icon. At the time it was Hayden, you know, Jaws, uh, this guy named Chase. Remember Chase? He was working at the front. I miss that guy. Uh, yeah, Yeah,

Nik: 20:23

Yeah.

Mackenzie: 20:25

He went on tour with some, yeah,

Nik: 20:26

Yeah.

Mackenzie: 20:28

Um, all of these the same motivation that I did. They were trying to hustle. And I remember walking by, the old Icon was a bit different. I haven't, gone into the new icon, uh, but the old icon was kind of the, the, the incubator, right? It was the incubator,

Nik: 20:48

was a different, that was a different era, dude. That was special. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mackenzie: 20:58

you know? And it was like, oh,

Nik: 21:00

yeah. And, and Chase, Chase would stay, would stay open all night long where Chase would like, we would technically close at a certain time, but Chase would be like, no, y'all, everyone could stay and they would stay until like the sun came up. I remember like Keaton Sullivan King would have like, have his shirt off just fucking playing the guitar, super sweaty at like three in the morning. It was like, it was like, it was, uh, the wild west back then, man. It was, we weren't a school. It wasn't a school. It was a fucking, just like a. It was a collective, really, back then. It was very different.

Mackenzie: 21:31

Having opportunities like that with Chase, keeping the school open. shit, most of the music that has made me, uh, have, uh, some success was from the early ages of, of Icon, you know, the countdowns and the of the Mac J career came from those late nights. Ordering crappy

Nik: 21:51

You know, it's being one in the right environment, Like, the right physical environment, And, and also, like, who are you surrounding yourself with? It's really cool, you know, you were roommates with Keizo. Keizo also was like Ex hockey player, you know, he had never produced music before but came to Icon and was just like I'm gonna yeah Just a fucking another grinder You know Sam as well jaws as well like surrounding yourself with other super ambitious people that have that same kind of mindset that have that same kind of Willing to do whatever it takes burn the fucking boats like we're in this shit, you know and and I think honestly Coaching? Hundreds of people now since then, you know and looking at who are the artists, from whether it was icon or just from The industry that I knew that really went on to blow up. It's a fucking mindset thing, man it's that hunger and that drive and that determination and everyone's looking at How do I get better at marketing or social media? And it's like, no, how do you get better at you? How do you get better at getting up early and staying up later and fucking not taking excuses and being the kind of person that you need to be in order to do this? You know, like that's why I became a life coach where I was like, Oh, this is not, just, uh, a marketing thing. This is not just, you know, getting better at making music thing. It's literally on a deeper level. Do you have that fucking hunger?

Mackenzie: 23:10

every morning. Doesn't matter if I'm in a different country. Doesn't matter if I'm at someone else's home. I say the same thing every morning when I wake up. up out of bed and I sit at the end of the bed for like four seconds. I say, it's time to put your big boy pants on. Slip them on Mackenzie. And I've been saying that for God, 25 years now. And so for me, it's just kind of the mentality of, uh, it's almost a fitness mentality. My stepdad was so big in the fitness triathlete. My mom was a super big triathlete and they always had to start their day with some sort of exercise that kept them sane and that also. the day. It's like making your bed. It's that routine effort. But in that routine, it's bettering yourself because you're starting the day with something you look and look forward to. Right? So that has kind of, uh, been pushed onto my life pretty heavily, which is fitness. And so I don't want to say fitness was because I sat behind a computer every single day, but it was the same mindset. It was a determination. I'd wake up in the morning, put my big boy pants on. It's time to make this work because what else, what else am I gonna do? an education. You know, I know how to shake people's hands. I know how to talk to people. I know social cues, But i'm not a i'm not a musical genius, you know, I push a button a couple buttons around so relationships like that. I feel like they're something that once you know you and you can better yourself in situations when you can wake up in the morning and be like it's time to go. It's time to hustle Then you can start evaluating or bad

Nik: 24:47

Yeah. it really reminds me of the book, The War of Art, by Steven Pressfield. You know, one of the most, like, iconic, legendary books about art and creativity. You know, that's his whole thing, is he's like, Basically the difference between being a professional and being an amateur. An amateur only creates when they're inspired. Like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling excited, I'm feeling inspired. But if, if I'm not feeling it, then I won't do the work and I'll walk away. And the professional is like, I sit down every day at the same time and I work no matter what, whether or not the inspiration is there. And the more that I work, the more the inspiration shows up, right? And I think that's the big difference. It's like, yo, did you make a commitment to making music tonight? And you just went to your 9 to 5 and you're getting off work and it's 6 o'clock and you're tired or you sit down and you're not feeling it? Do you actually still put in the hours or do you walk away and go watch Netflix or go scroll on social media instead? And it's like, this is the fucking hard, bitter pill to swallow. The gut check moment to look in the mirror of like, am I showing up and doing the things that I say I want to do? And I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect. I'm still working on this shit. But when I look around at the, at the, the friends and homies that I see that are really out there doing it, I'm like, all right, they've got that, that discipline to, as you say, put your big boy pants on.

Mackenzie: 26:08

we're not perfect There are moments in my life where I'm like god, I shouldn't be doing this that can lead into something else for me, dude. We were around the time where there wasn't this

Nik: 26:21

Yeah, I was going to bring that up. I was going to bring that up. Like, you were, you weren't so focused on social media back then. It wasn't as much of a thing as now. It's like, okay, you got to not only make the music, but you got to be putting out, you got to make all the content too. That's like half the fucking battle. It's twice the amount of time now. Yeah. Yeah.

Mackenzie: 26:44

Musicians right so with, with going to Icon, like, I had a BlackBerry. The BlackBerry was literally where you're DJing, scrolling the ball, maybe playing Snake on the side. Like, dude, this was a different era. It makes me it's, I'm, someone's fucking seven, eight years old. Like, how crazy is that? This is how fast, this is things as much as I want to say, work your thing, fucking stay hard, brother. Like, we are just living in a different era of human beings. Dude, it is almost impossible for me not to wake up in the morning. And the first thing I check is my phone. It is almost impossible. It's a drug. It's a legal drug. I started putting my phone the alarm on as loud as possible. And that's another thing with me now, I've gotten to a point in my life where I wake up very early and I don't stay up super late anymore. It's weird too, because when I still DJ, up, you know, but I'll do the, the mid afternoon naps. You know, any 30 year old would do. Dude,

Nik: 27:52

power naps now, dude. yeah, yeah,

Mackenzie: 27:59

can't go and check it in the middle of the night. I can't wake up. And the first thing I do is having a big old glare in my face. So small things. Yeah. Small You know, can better my life in some ways where I know that phone's taking me in. It's got me. Oh, 30, 40

Nik: 28:18

Yeah,

Mackenzie: 28:20

You get really lost in it,

Nik: 28:22

it, it's, it's true, man. I always say social media is an, is America's number one drug problem. And you're right. Like back then it wasn't as much of a thing. We weren't getting sucked into it. And, and definitely that's a real. Thing that I have so many conversations with and again, I'm still working on myself of mastering the addiction and just seeing, you know, how many hours it can steal from us and it's like that, that time is precious. And this also I think is one of the biggest kind of like, gut check moments to really look at now for, for, for everybody, you know, today is just like, yeah, How much How much time am I being distracted and getting distracted and not being hyper focused on my goals and you know, in order to achieve this. Dream at the highest level it takes a fuck ton of time and energy and that time and energy is precious So if it's if it's leaking out, you know into social media specifically or any other area, you know, that can be fucking Netflix or youtube or you know, pick your poison, but um it's something really important to clean up and something I really emphasize with, My clients and the work that I do as well. It's like got to tighten that shit up Yeah

Mackenzie: 29:36

an addiction. You know, attention to a lot of people is how many times a day do I got to post? How many times do I have to stay relevant? There's like this timeline. It's like an hourglass. It's sad. You know, there are a lot of guys that you know, been placed into the longevity acts, know, and I'm very, very blessed that I've been put into a category of guys where I've taken my relationships promoters to managers to guys that weren't even at the levels where they're booking festivals five, six years ago, they were like working as runners, right? I've kept my relationships very, very high with all of these guys because I know that, Hey, you don't know who someone's going to be in the next 10 years, but those are the guys that are keeping a roof over my head, calling them up. Hey, I want to, I can, I get a show around this time or this. Sure. Let's do this. Let's get your agent involved. That's where the relationships come in in a massive way for me. being part of this like longevity game, I mean, dude, I, I wake up in the middle of night going, what am I going to do in five? What am I going to do in 10? What am I going to do in 15 years? And it goes back to like the early fear that I had as being a musician. And that is what makes musicians so special to me. It's because there's so much involved in insecurities and fear and just self doubt that everyone has in the entertainment space because everyone has their moment and to capitalize on your moment. The only people that are ever going to tell you to capitalize on your moment, if you even know when that is, are your managers because they're making money off you and your agents that are making money off you and your agents are going to sit there and be like, we love you. You ever watch episode when Ari Gold busts out the big hummus tray, and he's like, we gotta get this guy signed with whatever the agency was, and they busted out all the food and everything, every drink the guy had when he was a kid. Make him feel at home. It's the little taste of success, right? And all music industry is like this, and this is the, this is the big issue, it's finding the people that you can see yourself working with. And seeing yourself surrounded by to better yourself and it's very hard in this industry all people are pieces of shit in the entertainment world. I think going into it Having the mindset where you are transactional to like, I am super transactional. There's a thousand million other producers out there that are better producers than I am. Better DJs, better at social media, better looking. There's just so much out there where you can get overtaken like this. just, to be honest, it's knowing yourself, knowing the qualities you can get and being a fucking nice human being. I've told so many people this and I get the same question all the time. How do you make it? How do you do this? It's such an open ended question. Don't be a piece of shit. Make friends. Be normal. Don't burn people. Do good business. It's like what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And I've lived by that. And I feel like with the insecurities as entertainers and the doubt, are going to be moments where it's slow. COVID was a big eye opening, uh, eye opening time for a lot of people in our industry. And it was kind of like, what do I do? do I pivot? you never really want to ride the wave. And that's the big thing. If you're doing something and then you ride the wave, it looks like you're just trying to copy someone else that you're not. And being true to your artist's form is the hardest thing ever. Because, I mean, the best way of success, dude, is getting told no a thousand times. then once someone told, tells you no, and then you do it, it's one of those. That is a great feeling to have because you stuck to your guns. know, so kind of the tangent right there.

Nik: 33:29

So, you definitely had, you know, your, moment in terms of like really kind of exploding and popping off and going from the smelly kid in the corner of Icon to then like fucking touring all over the world, you know, making a ton of money, playing all the, all the best clubs and festivals and stuff.

Mackenzie: 33:47

that out in my life. Mm

Nik: 33:50

That's good. Um, but you know, especially in that era, that was like main stage, big room house, dance music was still, had hit in like 29 2009 2010. It was like the next four or five years. It just had this rocket ship and you were really at the forefront of that wave. And so one, I just want to emphasize, I love hearing that like everybody, well, not everybody, but some people will have their moment where shit really skyrockets and pops off. Also, some people will disappear when that moment is over. Some people will, chase whatever the next wave is and the next trend. What I'm hearing in your story that I think is really cool is that you've also been able to, Maintain and sustain, a career even after that, that massive, you know, tsunami of a, of a wave crashed into America by maintaining those relationships and investing in those relationships and actually making sure that like, you know, you still have a strong, network, even when maybe some of those, you know, the crazy Crazy, crazy, you know, Vegas fees and, wild fucking tours are, have dried up, especially like you said, after, after COVID. So I think that that's, just a really, really good point to make, especially when you're meeting people, you know, yeah, you don't know who you're going to be doing business with five years down the road, 10 years down the road, Being a good, genuine human and actually developing real relationships, not just transactional relationships. Will really help like maintain and sustain those over the years. So,

Mackenzie: 35:28

mean, yeah, I could tell everyone, you know, just don't be a dick. It's a lot harder because you're going to be in these moments where you're traveling. You're gonna be tired. You're gonna have a bad show. You know, it's really hard to get off stage. I mean, I had my moments, you know. I definitely had it. Uh, like a year span of just like grinding it out, doing 250 shows a year. And my mom, saw a picture of me and, uh, she called me and she's like, I'm worried about you. And I'm like, nah, nah, I'm doing it. I'm killing it. She's like, no Mackenzie, sick. And I was like, Oh God, didn't telling me that because,

Nik: 36:09

Hmm.

Mackenzie: 36:10

you know, it, making everybody money. I'm, you free alcohol, I'm getting free drugs, I'm getting free hotels, I'm getting paid, you know, car services,

Nik: 36:23

Were you partying on the road? Like, were you having fun and partaking, you know, or did you find that that was hard to do?

Mackenzie: 36:31

I definitely, my tour, my old tour manager and I, I mean, I've went through a plethora of tour managers and some of the tour managers that were really good, they would be business, business, business. But when you're on the road with someone for so long, know, in and out of that person. You know, their family drama, there's no more chitchat anymore, right? So when you're on your 30th, it's kind of like the only thing that could make the situation better is looking forward to like going and partying. And It wasn't the best mentality again. I got it out of my system a lot when I was my early stages of DJing, you know, 19 years old and I was drinking in L. A. And I was around like, shit, the, the, the bottle service girls and seeing it very, very like quick in my career. So going into these massive moments where I hear a lot of horror stories with early younger DJs where they. one song and then they blow up and then they get put into the lion's den where they're just like party, party, women don't get girls pregnant. Like it's like a whole thing. And so the problem is you that, you know what I mean? Managers can be there, the manager wants you to work, work, work. Cause I got to take their cut, cut, cut. that goes for the industry, right? there are moments where surrounding myself with good people. And I am so glad that I did because there was a couple of times. Where, gotta give him a shout out, Mr. Ryan Jaso. That guy put me in my place so many times when it came down to parting. was the guy that everyone we would, I remember, this was wild. this in a long time. There was a party in San Diego called Wave House and Wave House was the best it was the shit It was like on the It was at a the stationary Skrillex Trash all these people were like that was it and JSO was doing control at the time with Chris White and so JSO was the guy that looked like Rick Owens and everyone knew JSO and as You I didn't have a manager at the time, but there was a guy that was working for Jay. So that was like, Hey, you should look into this guy's in his Mac. Jay. He doesn't really have any music, but he's DJ. He's going to icon and Jay. So kind of took a big brother approach to me and said, Hey, come by the office. He was, I think he was in Silver Lake at the time and I went to his office and he didn't have anyone. Oh, he had peace treaty. Peace treaty was on the roster. so, Peace Treaty, at the time, to fucking kill it, they were doing it. And, uh, I really wanted to be a part of his little clique, so I offered to always be his DD. Now, a lot of people, like, he was go, oh

Nik: 39:24

animal. Jaso was a fucking party animal at the time. Yeah.

Mackenzie: 39:28

Man, Jace, though. And so, LED, there's Voyeur involved, and Jace was like, Hey, we're going to San Diego, do you want to come? And Jace had this big cartel Mercedes Benz at the time, like,

Nik: 39:40

The, black Mercedes dude.

Mackenzie: 39:43

rims, like, he saw Pit My Ride and was like,

Nik: 39:47

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mackenzie: 39:56

he took like a big brother approach to me and that is where I kind of was like, I don't really want to, there's no, there's no, why would I want to party? I get to see these guys doing it. Drugs and alcohol really weren't really my thing. I was, at the time, I was dipping a lot.'cause where I was from doing tobacco was like it. So that's was, that was my vice. I wasn't ever drinking. I wasn't ever doing hard drugs. And to be honest. I feel like that was a blessing in disguise in it's the most amazing way because the more Successful that I got easier for me to get it But I thought it was crappier and cringier at the time when it was given to me in a way It was like Do you want to do this with me? I'm like, I gotta Somewhere else at 6 a. I can't do that. There was just that

Nik: 40:44

Yeah. I yeah, man. I know. I love that. You bring all that up. I just had laid back Luke on the podcast actually just came out this week and we had a really great conversation about just like really just the the impossibility of actually really partying when you're at that level of 200 shows a year. It's like, no, it's, it's not, it's not possible. And a lot of people probably shoot themselves in the foot by getting at that, you know, and we've seen it so many times you get a little taste of success of like, Ooh, like I'm, I'm getting some free bottles now and I'm getting some attention now. And it's like, all right, you're at like 10 percent of your success. And then that's as far as you go, because you get caught up in the shit. And, um, I love that you bring up. JSO. I also, you know, I had JSO on the podcast fairly recently as well. So everyone definitely go check out that episode. He's running a, marketing agency now, but it's funny. I got, I mean, I mean, you know, you know the story, but I'm, I'll share this with, with the audience as well. But, you know, you actually called me because I was working for JSO at the time and you, you call. I was working with JSO, I was his little like assistant, his assistant manager helping with peace treaty and you called me and you're like, Hey, what do you think of this JSO guy and technique? Like, should I sign with them? And I was like, fuck, yeah, dude, like, go for it. They're the best, you know, you got it, you got to send it. And then I quit. And then I went with, um, I because I was talking to the, the Black Eyed Peas manager. It kind of poached me. And Like I,'cause I had an old connection with David Geddes camp and, and the piece. So anyways, I, I split off and went with them and then you signed with JSO and then like totally blew the fuck up. And I was like, oh fuck I went the wrong way. You know, there, there was a little, there was a little part of me that was like, oh shit. But of course it all worked out'cause I was really supposed to go over to Icahn full time. But, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a, a little piece of the story there. But, uh, you know, having that. positive influence. And like you said, even kind of big brother, person in your corner to help guide you. Like, here's the thing is it's going to be really fucking hard. Like it's gonna best thing in the world is that you become successful. you have to be a really solid grounded person to be able to navigate the fucking insanity of being a internationally touring DJ and so Surrounding yourself with the right people is is is so essential and I think being really honest right now with yourself about you know Yeah, are you around the right people or not? You know, do you have those right people in your corner? And

Mackenzie: 43:18

that's, a hard

Nik: 43:19

yeah

Mackenzie: 43:21

It's do you know it's not good? I have always had this kind of, if I'm not doing it. As job, I guess, why do I need someone else to do it for me? Like I've always had a mentality of I'm going to do this. I'm going to do it to the full extent of this. I don't need any more help. Like, uh, I'm never going to let go. But now in my I need those people. I need those people to keep me doing these things that I thought I could do. And it's taking that humility approach and going, you know what? Let's build a team. Let's build this kind of, um, you know, uh, morning that I can get on and get on calls and emails, there's never a phone call that I don't pick up for my teammates because it's one of those things where I want to be involved. I want to be successful. I want to have these like moments with the people I work with and share that with them and working with a lot of people nowadays in the production camps and the graphic design camps and just kind of being the whole artist now. You can't micromanage because once you micromanage, you're going to start getting into rabbit holes and you're just, sometimes you just need to just step back, be like, Hey, this is why you have them on your team. You got to trust them. You got to trust the process for sure.

Nik: 44:37

So, you know, after you had that period in your career of You know, really hardcore, intense touring. You're doing 200 shows a year. Obviously things have, kind of, you know, tapered off at least on the touring side of things since then. What has your career looked like now? At this stage, what are some of the other things that you've been involved in? Cause I think that's also a, you know, like you said, kind of like not knowing like, damn, what am I going to be doing in five or 10 years? I think that's a question too. A lot of people are like, well, I know I don't want to tour forever. So how have you been able to still sustain? you know, A career, uh, in the music industry. What does that look like now at this chapter in your career?

Mackenzie: 45:15

uh, I just had my 12 year party, uh, of, uh, being in this, crazy industry. Um, touring, I've definitely stepped back from, I'm getting older. I don't enjoy going to airports and getting on planes and I'm tall. Sit like I sit like Gumby, you know, it's as much as I want Oh, it's great. You know, it pays the bills. There are different ways that you could capitalize on not putting your body through so much stress and and exhaustion. And that's that kind of came to me very quickly. And Covid was that Mind flip of do I really enjoy this? Do I really want to continue to do this? And I do. And I love the people that I've met on the road. And I've loved every opportunity that I've gotten in this industry. my really big, moment was seeing if I wanted to be behind a computer and make music. Do I enjoy that more than I like up my suitcase and going on the road and saying hi to every American Airlines flight attendant? Or having a life where I could sit and, you know, having some sort of routine don't get me wrong. The weekend warrior game is strong. Like I still do it last week. I was literally in Korea playing a show in Thailand, you know, it's like, I'm still doing it, but I've gotten to a point where I've been able to diversify the funds that I've been able to make being, uh, an entertainer and doing in different and different avenues and having advisors and having people that I could trust. help me through that has been a game changer, you know, and there's a lot of people in this industry that don't know what to do when they make a little bit of money. They just think they like looking at it in a bank account. They go, Oh, I like waking up and seeing that, but it's not really doing anything for you because when that oil runs dry, it's hard to say invest it into this, you know, and it's just taking that risk. So, done well in other things. Uh, I've worked with my stepdad a lot in real estate. So him and I. I own seven properties now in San Luis Obispo, which is amazing. I took kind of like, I kind of took that and going these kids parents will pay for any sort of living, living expense. So as well capitalize on that. Again, I trust big time and he has been the forefront of helping me kind of do different stuff. But, for the music stuff, I produce for a lot of people right now and I love it. But I also. Don't really like it because there are moments where I'm having to sit there and be like, I don't think this is good, but I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna dab along and, and, and continue this and make revisions. And some of those songs blow up and you're like, how the fuck, you know, but the beauty about music. You know, are asses and sometimes I am the ass and I don't want to be on the opposite end and just trying to consume as much music as possible and put it out like a McDonald's. I like making art. And, I work with four of what some of the, I would say top 10 DJs right now and I make their music and they're super busy on the road and they have other things they got to do. The social media is massive. That's more important in my sense of music, unfortunately. but still be under pressure and depressed and doing that. And so if I can help with that and also make a living doing it. be it, you know, so that's where I've kind of put my, my, all my eggs in the basket right now.

Nik: 48:47

well, first off, you know, I love and I remember talking to you actually really early on like really when you were kind of even just popping off. I remember you talking about making investments and different like businesses and stuff. And it's I think that's a really important conversation to have because we see it all the time. You know, you've got like your MC Hammer situations that are just like, yo, I made a bunch of fucking money. And I'm bankrupt and I have nothing to show for it. You know, so, so being smart, like if you do have that moment, you do start popping off like what are you doing with that money that's coming in? Right. Having some good advisors to show you where to put it. I think that's really, really, you know, important, conversation for, everybody to have, have a plan, have a financial plan, you know, where are you reinvesting it back into the business, you know, where are you investing it and, uh, outside of the business, but, You know, this other part about just the reality. I'm, I'm noticing more and more man. Uh, cause I have a, you know, yeah, really close friend that also is producing for like one of the biggest artists in the fucking game. And it's not that they can't produce. They've been producing this whole time. They're just like, We are now running this massive business with so many people involved and we have to tour all the time and we have like making music is like a little piece of it now that we are now outsourcing to somebody that can do it and it's just has become running a business and managing a team and I think that, you know, I've brought this up a few times on the podcast and so I'm not surprised to hear that like, you know, You know, this is another, just another example of, I think, the reality of what, a, list level DJ music businesses have become and really probably have been for, for quite a while. But it's not just one dude sitting in the corner of icon making his own beats anymore, you know,

Mackenzie: 50:32

that's I mean, don't get me wrong, in releasing one track a year can keep them afloat. And that's been the biggest change with the music industry. When I was at IKON, shit. I have two, four, six, eight, 16. I've released 16 records my entire career. 16, 16. I know people that release,

Nik: 50:58

of 12 years.

Mackenzie: 51:00

released 16 records in a year, if not more. Right? Look at Steve Aoki. Perfect It's all about content. It's all about having as much ammo to be

Nik: 51:12

Yeah.

Mackenzie: 51:16

It just lets it, it just continue to grow. But you have to make that decision as an artist to be, do I want to be the McDonald's do I want to be that boutique, fancy Williamsburg, New York swanky restaurant that might only be open for two years can't pay rent. You know, it's like, there's a lot of differences. This is a business. This ain't like how it was where there was Twitter accounts saying, who's the ghostwriter for this? fucking wish I had a ghostwriter when I was at my peak.

Nik: 51:49

Yeah.

Mackenzie: 51:56

God, I do not want to look at a computer screen right now. So there's like these big differences where what is valuable to you a artist that's making 10 to 15 million dollars a year sitting behind a fucking computer sound incredibly fun? I don't know. And having that joy of making music. Don't get me wrong. I don't see these guys that I work with. They do know how to get behind a computer and Ableton and logic and dabble along. what I see, what's the most valuable out of these guys are they know how to read a room and they know what's good coming up. They could like fucking sense the future. I'll get these texts from this person and I'll read it and be like, This guy must be on crack. Like, he is, what is he talking about? This song and that song don't really work out. And he like, forells it. He'll say, you need to do this and that, and I'm like, out of key, doesn't work, not the same BPM. This dude is tweaking. I'll go do what he wants, and I'm shit this works. So there's, there's moments of creativity, dude, that you cannot pay for. And that's where these guys are like very good at

Nik: 53:13

and this is my first time really thinking about this out loud, but I think what we're experiencing really is in real time the evolution of the EDM, I don't even want to say industry, the EDM food group, right? It's like pop has been around for a while. Rock has been around for a while. Country, hip hop. Those are like the main food groups of music and electronic music. You know, we're talking about it only being, you know, not that long ago, 10, 12, 14 years ago that it really, really started to pop. It's yeah, it's still, yeah, exactly. Like it's still young. And so. We're really seeing firsthand how really the role of an artist has been changing because that's the interesting spaces. It's like it's you've been a hybrid between being an artist and being a producer, right? It was like the producers are making beats and making music. They go out, they go on stage, they, you know, they DJ. You have the roles of being a producer, the roles of being a DJ, and then there's also the role of being an artist. And so if you look at pop, you know, there's eight people involved in making a pop song. You've got two songwriters in the room, you've got two or three producers, you've got, you know, multiple people. No big radio hit was ever made by one dude sitting in his fucking bedroom by himself. And so now I think that, Being an artist in the EDM industry now, that's really what we're seeing is it's like, okay, yeah, as an artist, you have to tour, you have to do social media, you have to do press interviews, you have to also get on stage and DJ, you know, that's what is really Making it be a business is that you're selling tickets and you're playing shows. And so we're just expanding out of the, uh, infantile phase of what being an EDM artist used to be. Right. And it's, it's, you know, I think we'll look back on this 10 years and it'll just be so like, Oh yeah, it's crazy that we used to do it that way, that it was just one dude in the room. Like, it's like, that will be like a thing of the fucking past. Especially, especially with AI. Let's talk about AI coming out now. Like we weren't even Barely using fucking Facebook, years ago, right? Like trying to get Facebook likes, you know, where are things going to be in a bit? you know, and we can look at that really from any genre as well. Just the music business and industry is always going to be changing. It's always going to be evolving. That's one of my biggest pet peeves is when people are complaining about how it is and talking about how it used to be. It's like, yo, shut the fuck up. This is evolution. This has always been changing. It's always going to. So like, you got to look ahead at like what's coming and where are things going? And, you know, of course I'm always going to advocate, you still got to be a fucking artist, you know, like still like tap into that, that, that creativity on your heart and your soul, but have your finger on the pulse of what's actually happening too.

Mackenzie: 56:09

not knocking any of the guys I work for, you know, they, they're, they're amazing people and super creative, but I always kind of refer to them as one thing. They're like the Pharrell's. They come into the studio. And it'll say something, and I'm like, Oh man, I never would have heard that. Right? So that takes some sort of musical talent, you know? So, there isn't not any musical have to remember, how the fuck did they even get to where they're at? They had to have done something, right? Business.

Nik: 56:35

Yeah.

Mackenzie: 56:35

business, This isn't a one man show, like you said. That will never be the case anymore. There will never be a one man show. You need people to be on your side and helping you dissolve the workload to be able to focus on each individual point. Like you said, social media, where you're going to be playing in traveling. I mean, dude, this is all things that come into play. We're a kid in a bedroom with his little KRK speakers and he's sitting there and his AC doesn't work. They could still make it. But it's a lot harder to make it now than it was back in when I was doing it, you know,

Nik: 57:17

Yeah. you can throw a remix up on SoundCloud and be touring you three months later, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mackenzie: 57:29

I mean shit I remember sitting at that table that you would see me right by the kitchen at icon every day And I remember sitting there and I was always looking up one thing AlessoID, AlessoID, cause he was that new guy, and I wanted to see what he was doing, and I was going on YouTube, and I was typing it, and I'm going last of recently uploaded, and I would see what he was doing, and trying to be like, ah, the goal, right? That dude, he was in the same boat. He was probably sitting behind some table two smoking cigarettes fucking making progressive house when it wasn't a thing. has their path, but the path now has a lot more roads and you do not know what road, where it might take you. But I, I knew as Mac J the road was straight and there really wasn't a lot of diversion because that diversion was, uh, I don't know if that's the right move. I don't know. Yeah, of course there was a left and right. thank God I took the right, or I took the right turn, right? But for me, it was timing. Everything was fucking timing, you know? So, I can't the artistry that, these kids have nowadays. But I can tell you that it's a lot harder to make it now, for sure.

Nik: 58:39

yeah. It was timing but also not to discredit yourself. It also was courage to take the leap, courage to drop out of college and fucking go for it. The discipline to sit your ass down and put in the work. It was like, yeah, right place at the right time, but right person at the right place at the right time. And there's a lot to be said for that. And that's why you are where you are now. And, yeah, man, I'm excited to see where you go from here. I'm excited to see what is five years down the road. What is 10 years down the road? You know, cause the cool thing, and I always say this to my clients as well as like, pursuing goals is not just about achieving them, but who you become in the process. If you become the kind of person that is. Ambitious, hardworking, courageous, good with people, nice, kind. You become that kind of person. It doesn't matter what you do, right? It doesn't matter what you do, you're going to kill it, right? So you just got to become the kind of person that's going to kill it no matter what. And it just, it just so happens that this is the thing that you've been killing it at. So

Mackenzie: 59:41

surround yourself with good people, dude. Big time. Like, when I got out of LA, that was one of the big catapults of my career. that I wanted to get out of L. A. There really wasn't a purpose for me of living in L. A. And this was also, too, when L. A. wasn't the crime ridden city that it is now. me, when I was living in L. A., it was very expensive. I didn't like traveling two hours to the airport every which way I wanted to go. I made the big leap of moving somewhere more residential, I moved to San Diego right after L. A. I got to meet actually genuine people that cared about not just where I was at fucking on a success rate, right? Like were still one of my best 70 years old, you know, we would have dinner parties every Thursday. then so I took that mentality of the kid mentality and now I live in Vegas. I have met the most amazing people here in Las Vegas where I know that if I'm ever in any problem, I have a phone. I got a Rolodex. I'll call them and get me out of any situation. So, you know, uh, the last thing I want to say with, with moving and getting out of the city is if you surround yourself with people, like minded people, it's usually a success rate for you to be in a, motivated kind of state of mind. And I have a lot of friends that do what I do, which makes it such a beautiful relationship because they, It's not like they're living vicariously through me, but they bring creative, bringing creativeness to myself that I never saw unless I was around other musicians, right? So it could be a lawyer something. It could be a contractor. It could be someone that works at one of the casinos. It could be a professional golfer. This is all the beauty about life. living in Vegas and being friends with people that have not a really high risk level. Like they got families, they're not at the club, they're not the Rhino every single night. Those are the people that surrounding myself within the last five years has been such a beautiful thing in my life. And it's made me a different person. It's made me really think that like, Hey, I like being a respectful person and this is how I live my life now. You know?

Nik: 1:01:57

Yeah, man, I get that dude. LA can definitely be a bubble. It can be a beast. It's a beautiful fucking thing to be a part of. It's also really nice to be out of, you know, I've been out in Austin now for two years and getting to experience that also being around, uh, A different culture, a different energy. It's been really beautiful, man. So I'm so happy to hear that you've surrounded yourself with great people and, um, you're doing your thing out there, brother. It's really, really good to connect. I appreciate you taking the time to come on and, and share today. Uh, I know there's so much more

Mackenzie: 1:02:29

Oh, yeah.

Nik: 1:02:30

and such a deeper rabbit hole to dive down, but at least we got to scratch the surface of it a little bit today, man. And, uh, yeah, I really appreciate

Mackenzie: 1:02:37

Dude, thank you for having me, brother.