Headliner Mindset
The Headliner Mindset podcast explores what it truly takes to succeed as an artist in the EDM industry. Through interviews with some of the biggest DJs, artists and professionals in the game, we dig into not only the business strategies for success but also how to navigate the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of the artist journey. For more info, go to www.nikcherwink.com.
Headliner Mindset
HARRISON BENNETT (Deadbeats) - Label Manager And A&R For Zeds Dead's Record Label
Harrison Bennet is the head of A&R and label manager for Zeds Dead's record label Deadbeats. He is also a manager with the Toronto-based management company 2+2 and works with Zeds Dead, SIPPY, Levity and more.
In this episode we talk about what it takes to get signed, how to properly promote a release, how much of a marketing budget you should have, the reality of life on the road and more.
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https://www.instagram.com/deadbeats
https://www.instagram.com/2plus2mgmt
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https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink
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https://www.nikcherwink.com
there's not a clear. roadmap for artist development or what a career trajectory should look like. Everybody, I think has their own. path they're traveling on and people, hit different levels at different times. But I think if you are. In it for the right reasons. Like three years, quickly turns into five years and seven years and 10 years. And, you're not really like looking to get into the next level and you're just kind of like along for the ride and enjoying what, comes.
Nik:What's up, everybody. Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. Today's guest is the manager of one of the biggest acts in the bass music scene, Zedd's Dead. He is also the label manager for their record label, Dead Beats, which has helped launch the careers of artists like Rez, Mersive, and Tate B. He's got a wealth of knowledge to share about how to grow your brand and project as an electronic music artist. This is Harrison Bennett. Let's go. Let's go, baby.
Harrison Bennett:Good intro.
Nik:the show.
Harrison Bennett:Thanks. Good. Good to be here.
Nik:Yeah, man. I'm pumped to have you as we were saying just before we started. It's been a long time coming. I have been, um, working with Sippy over the last few months, which is cool just to come full circle. She was the very first artist I ever had episode number one of the headliner mindset podcast. Go back and listen to it. My girl Sippy. Um, we've been doing some coaching together over the last few months. And so, of course, Of course, I've heard a lot about you, uh, because she's one of the artists that you work with as well. So just a, a, a cool moment to get connected.
Harrison Bennett:Absolutely. Yeah. Looking forward to it.
Nik:And so let's start there. You work with the artist management company two plus two, right? Um, based out of Canada, you guys have an incredibly stacked roster over there working with some, some huge artists. Who are the artists that you work with as a manager?
Harrison Bennett:Um, so I'm on the Zed Zed management team. Um, the, the lead manager on that is Adam Gill. Who's the, uh, owner, uh, of two plus two. And then I also am managing Amani, Sippy, and Levity and recently we just signed Distinct Motive, which I'm very excited about.
Nik:Awesome. Awesome, man. So you've got your, you've got your hands full. You're a busy dude. Yeah.
Harrison Bennett:normal home life stuff, it's, uh, definitely enough to keep me busy during the day.
Nik:Yeah. So let's talk about what you do on the label sides. Uh, I think everybody knows if you're listening to the show, you probably know who Zed's Dead is, you probably know that they have a really awesome record label called Dead Beats. Um, as the label manager, what does a label manager do? What is your actual role with helping with the label?
Harrison Bennett:That's a good and very open ending question. So I guess like first to just kind of like paint the picture of like dead beats is we have a, uh, rather tiny team, considering, I guess, like the perspective of, of how the label is. But there's about four of us that work on the team. And. Out of the 4, like, 1 of us, like, that's their, that's the sole thing that they focus on, um, and that's, uh, and her name's Harley, and she does, like, all the marketing and all the social media and, a bunch of creative direction stuff for the label, so as a label manager, I, uh, very much lead on all the A& R stuff, kind of project management in terms of, you know, Getting the initial demos coordinating, getting the artwork in submitting it in for distribution and then handling all of the dot connecting with all the DSPs and the artists and just making sure that the project gets out successfully and is. Marketed successfully and taken care of for the entire term that we're we're in charge of it. And then I get to do all the fun label stuff, like royalty accounting and, uh, you know, dealing with budgets and and all that stuff. And then there's, um, you know, kind of unique for dead beats is we also have our events. Which we do, you know, anywhere from 12 to 25 events a year. And so I work with our, our agency team at Wasserman. Uh, to build those lineups. Come up with the creative for the marketing and the poster design and all that stuff. And then, um, on the ground, kind of making sure that things are going as planned. So, it's a, it's a lot of hats, on the label side of things, but it's very exciting. Um, I started on the label basically when it started. I kind of came on board. As label manager about, I'd say, like, 3 or 4 months after it formally launched, um, and I don't know if any of us really knew what we were doing. I certainly didn't. So I just kind of took it and ran with it and was like, how am I going to fill up my hours in the day? And turn this into a full time job and really just kind of went for absolutely everything I possibly could. And, I think it's done pretty well. I think we've done a decent job with, with kind of scaling and growing this label and making it a destination point for a lot of artists.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. So I guess a better question would have been, what do you not do as the label manager?
Harrison Bennett:I don't sleep. That's the main thing.
Nik:For sure. For sure. And so you came in right around when it was starting, a little bit after. I was really curious about what had Zedd's dead, know that it was time to launch a label? And maybe we can just open this up to a little bit more of a broader, you know, question. I think for a lot of artists at some point in their career, they may or may not decide to start their own label. We've seen that with so many artists. And so I guess I'm just curious about like when might be the right time and how did they know that it was the right time
Harrison Bennett:Yeah. So, uh, so I came on with that in 2015 and, uh, originally started as like working, uh, on their social media and marketing side of things. At that time, they were starting to seriously, uh, set aside time and work on what was going to be their debut album, Northern Lights. And, uh, they were like, well, we don't really want to have to deal with Posting on socials or event marketing or anything like that during this, because we just want to focus on the album stuff. And so I helped, you know, fill a lot of those. Needs that they had, and then. It was roughly like, 8, 9 months later, they were like, hey, we want to launch this label and this has been an idea that we've had in our minds for a long time. And I think the real. Kind of like push to do that was based around this album that they, you know, they ultimately they worked with a bunch of different labels kind of as they were starting and done a bunch of EPs and random singles with like mad decent and Denmark and spinning and ultra and, you know, they, they'd done the whole gamut of, of dance music labels. Um, but, you know, with this album, they really didn't want to compromise. On anything they wanted to put out the record that they wanted to put out. They wanted to be in absolute control of, you know, the artistic direction for this project. And they felt that. You know, doing it under their own label would give them that kind of artistic freedom that they, that they wanted so badly. So that was, um, the real impetus for, for them kicking off the label.
Nik:Where do artists potentially not have artistic freedom and have to compromise when it comes to working with labels?
Harrison Bennett:So, you know, some labels, I'm not going to name names, but like, you know, some labels will have, templates for artwork that they want to use and there's, you know, not really. There's like, some wiggle room that the artists are afforded, but they're not really given kind of carte blanche for whatever they want to do. Other labels will give a lot of notes on the music and, you know, they'll want to change and tinker with certain things. And, you know, so they can get involved in a bunch of different places. And then there's also just like, marketing budgets to, like, you know, artists may want to. Uh, invest in a music video or motion graphics or whatever it might be. And the label is like, no, we kind of have like a, a capped budget at this. And until we start to see like certain sales metrics, we're not going to really open up the wallet for more stuff, on that side of things. So, you know, there's, I think there's inherent limitations that come with working with, with labels. We've tried to. Be as artists focused as we possibly can on the label side for dead beats. And that really. You know, kind of comes down to, we want the ultimate version of whatever the artist is delivering us to get. Projected into the world, so whatever the artist wants to do on artwork, aside from, you know, kind of running afoul of any of the DSP. P's and Q's, which will just kind of make them aware of and if they still really want to push for it and have, like, a giant, but on the cover, then, like. I don't know, we're probably not the label for that, but, um, you know, for the most part, like, we really just try to, like, put the, the artist in the driver's seat as much as possible on all this stuff. And we, you know, when it comes to budgets, we always scale up our budgets as much as needed. And really, I'd like, always tell, like, artists and their teams, like, whatever you guys want to do, we want to make happen. Obviously we don't want to. Battle a project and like, an insurmountable amount of debt, but, uh, you know, we want to kind of. Be able to put forth a project that the artist is 100 percent willing and happy to stand behind and isn't like, kicking and screaming to the finish line on this and is bored of the project and doesn't want to promote it to 2 weeks after it's at.
Nik:Yeah, yeah. So I hear how one as an artist having your own label, just having the freedom to do what you want to do artistically with the artwork. Also, I'm sure with just release schedules and, you know, handle handling that, you know, the budget that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I imagine, you know, they were at a certain point in their career where like, Hey, we've kind of, we've tapped into all of these other labels. We've gotten in front of those markets. We've, we've built our audience up to a point that we can, we actually have somebody to really, you know, get in front of now, it seems like there's probably like a tipping point there. The other piece though, that I hear is there's also just that genuine desire to, to put other artists on and create a platform for them as well.
Harrison Bennett:Yeah, I mean, that was a big factor that too, like, you know, we're, we're all based in Toronto and Toronto has got a very, very fertile music scene here and they've got a lot of friends and past and present collaborators that are in the city. so it was very much like, how do we kind of help out people in the same way that we've been helped out before in the past by like, you know, kind of legendary artists led labels, like a dimmock or a mad decent, you know, how do we kind of do for this next generation? What was afforded to us. So that was a big, big, reason for, for wanting to start a label and also open it up to other artists. Cause it's pretty, like you could start your own imprint and just release your own stuff and have that freedom there. But now like opening it up to other artists, like they, you know, they have to fit their releases in around like other projects that are on the label. So, that freedom of a release schedule. Is not as free as it once was, but, um, we still try to make it work as best as possible.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. And the other piece that I hear in that is I think the reality of what not just a good label is, but really a good brand, you know, like Dim Mok is a great example. Dim Mok, not only were they putting out great music, But really at the same time, they were throwing sick parties. Like I remember being like Dim Mock Tuesdays back in LA. They threw a weekly party every single week. And so there is a difference between having an imprint of like, Oh, I just have a I have a, an online label that puts music out through the distributor and that's the one lane, which, you know, pretty much anybody can do, but you guys have really, Built something much more than that. You guys have built an actual brand. You know, you mentioned you guys are also doing over a dozen events a year as well. Um, was that always part of the vision? And, and could you just kind of kind of speak into, what that landscape really looks like in terms of being more than just a label, but actually a brand?
Harrison Bennett:Yeah. I mean, so Zed very much got their start obviously in Toronto, but, um, they kind of came, they became like a, a force in the local scene because they were doing their own weekly event. Um, and it was a Wednesday night party called base mentality that started in like, I wanna say 2009. And, it was a showcase spot primarily for them originally, because they weren't getting bookings in other places in the city. Like, there was like, there was other dubstep nights in Toronto, but they were like, you know, kind of like old school UK. Dubstep nights and, you know, they weren't really booking or looking to book anybody from North America. Um, and so they started their own night and it's it developed and grew into a kind of like a premier. weekly and base music weekly event, not only in Toronto, but also in North America. Um, they were. You know, they booked Skrillex, like, incredibly early, like, maybe like a month after that, like, massive EP came out in 20, 2009. they had, like, everybody, like, 16Bit was through there, Dr. P, Cookie Monster, like, everybody stopped by. Um, and played on this Wednesday night and everybody would be out incredibly late and drag their asses to work on a Thursday morning. And it was very different. I don't even know how, uh, anybody really got shit done during those times, especially throwing a weekly. It's just like, it's a lot of work. Um, so, you know, the event stuff was very much kind of ingrained in, in, in. Like Zed's Dead's kind of like working model for how they, they do that, get out there and get in front of people. And they, they're just very heavy on the touring side of things.
Nik:Just gotta say real quick. If you're not getting booked, you can throw your own fuckin party. That's the lesson that I'm hearing in this. Like, if people aren't booking you, if you're not getting the love, you're not getting the attention, or if in your city the scene doesn't exist, You get to create the scene. I didn't know that about their story, but that's so fucking rad because not only do you get to, you know, you're adding value to the culture, you're creating the scene, you're creating a platform. Only good things are going to come out of that. I'm sure. Yes, it took a lot of work, a lot of time and a lot of energy, but look where that got them. You know, not only that, you also really understand. And how to throw parties, you know, when I hear about artists who have a background in also being a promoter, they just have a whole different mindset and a whole different understanding of the music business and the landscape when they actually came in from throwing parties themselves, which not everybody has. So just to plant that seed, if you're out there and you're like, man, I'm not getting booked, there's no parties happening. Throw the fucking party yourself.
Harrison Bennett:yeah, 100%. And that kind of like do it yourself ethos is kind of what's carried through into Starting deadbeats and then doing the events as well So, you know the the event side of things with with deadbeats started very early. It was like, okay Let's do a deadbeats tour and that that idea kind of kicked off within a year Of, uh, of launching the label, um, we started putting the dead beats branding on kind of key Zed's Dead headline events, like their Dead Rocks, uh, Red Rocks run that they do every July. and then, you know, kind of grew it from there. We did, we did a show at South by Southwest. We did a show at Miami music week and, um, it's just kind of developed from there. And I think, you know, what it's, what it's turned into is a main. Uh, I guess selling point for why people would want to work with with dead beats is, you know, not only were you going to put your music out there and, you know, try to do our best promoting it and making getting it heard by as wide an audience as possible, but we're going to, we're going to offer you, you know, opportunities to get on events and play in front of, the Zed Zed audience, which, you know, We've, like, been very, very fortunate enough to have the extremely receptive audience that gets there early, is down to be exposed to new artists that they may not be aware of, and, you know, You know, we can ideally convert them into fans of that artist. Um, and so that they're going to their headline shows and buying their tickets and their merchandise and supporting the releases that are outside of deadbeats so that they can develop a nice, healthy, you know, long term career outside of just working with deadbeats. You know, and we've always kind of been from the, from the start, like, the way we always use the label was. We wanted to be supporting and putting on what we think is going to be big in the next six months or a year from now. We didn't necessarily want to be like working with, you know, today's headliners. We wanted to be like, if you think of a music festival, it's got the main stage and the side stage. We wanted to be the side stage. That's the talent that we wanted to be pushing. We wanted to be getting people, uh, earlier in their careers so that, you know, if you. Look at a bunch of the people that are headliners right now. A lot of them have a deadbeats release of their discography that's like buried kind of deep in there. And that's kind of all by design because like we want, we wanna be that, that starting point for a lot of folks and then also be, you know, a nice safe space where when they have a big project, or you know, a big collab or a big, you know, a release that they're like, well we, we have some larger ideas around it and we want to get behind this. We want to be that space that they come back to in the future. And that's all kind of done by like, you know, opening up our entire arsenal of like what we have to afford everybody and make available to them and, and let them kind of build it into their own thing.
Nik:So what do you guys look for when you're signing new talent to the label?
Harrison Bennett:I mean, first and foremost is the sound. Like Can't really do much with something that we don't vibe with and that we don't dig. and the overarching idea for everything that we sign is, Is this something that we think Zed's Dead would play? is this something that would fit in a Zed's Dead set? And luckily, Zed's Dead plays a very eclectic, Batch and music, um, they kind of all over the place in their, in their sets. So it hasn't pigeonholed us to just like one style of dubstep or even just dubstep. Like we can do a bit of house and drum and bass. We can do some down tempo stuff. We can kind of go all over the map. But that's kind of the over riding idea of everything that we signed. And then beyond that is, you know, is this somebody that we think is going to kind of mesh in our world? Because we are doing the live events. These are people that we have to. Hang out with and enjoy being around and are they going to enjoy being around us and playing at our shows and getting along with our audience? So those are usually the 2 main factors. Uh, like, less important is like. You know, their metrics online, like, I really don't bring that in as like a factor all that much. Certainly makes our lives easier. If somebody has like an extremely engaged audience, but, you know, I think that's part of the label's job is to help, you know, find. That artist audience and help kind of introduce them to new people. You know, more so than just like the top follower numbers or whatever we do look at. Engagement are, are people kind of enjoying this music outside? Is that fan base enjoying this music and enjoying what this artist is putting out there? And then, you know, does the artist have a desire to be on the road is the other bit because there's plenty of producers that are very happy to just kind of produce and sit in their studio and, and that's fine. But that's not. That's not kind of giving us the, the, the tool set that we think we can work best with and really elevate to its best position and, and, um, you know, kind of create a project with us and the artist that's going to find success.
Nik:Yeah. And I think a lot of artists think they want to go on the road, but I, you know, I don't think everyone actually really knows what that entails. And, and I'll bring that up right now. For those of you that are listening is it's, it's good to really think about that, to really think about what do I want the next, Five years of my career, the next 10 years of my career to look like. Um, I think a lot of times we have this, you know, fluffy vision of like, yeah, I'm just going to be on, you know, flying on private jets and touring and getting, you know, it's like, there's a grind, there's a grind that comes with it. And like, you gotta be a fucking road dog. Like you gotta be a, you gotta be a road warrior for this shit. You know, like I've been invited to tour manage before, which I think would be such a, on the one hand would be a cool idea. Like, yeah, it'd be fun to be like. You know, a life coach on the road. And the other hand, I don't want to fucking like travel and be on planes and buses. I'm like, I like my morning routine and getting up. And so, you know, that, that one hour that you are playing the show and you're getting that fat dopamine hit and, and you're the man or you're the girl, that's one hour. There are so many other hours that go around it. And so, um,
Harrison Bennett:there's 23 other hours of you sitting in a hotel room alone, waiting for your ride and, uh, or sitting in an airport and just watching your flight get delayed and delayed and delayed. Um, it's something that I think people are just like, certain people are built for it. Um, other people can get accustomed to it and then other folks can. Don't really fully get accustomed to it, but kind of figure out what works and what doesn't work for them. Um, and, you know, being able to build some kind of routine on the road, even with, uh. With all the challenges that are presented in that, and you're in a different city, you don't have any of it. You know, home familiarities that you would get in, like, you're at home basically. And, um. You're staying out late, you're waking up super early. It's a, it's a challenge for sure. And, and I don't think it, I don't think it necessarily gets any easier, like the bigger the artist gets, like, you know, obviously it's incredibly luxurious to be like flying on private jets and staying in like the nicest suites in a hotel. but that's really only out there for a very select few artists. Um, the vast majority of. Headline artists are still like they're flying commercial. They're staying in the same hotels as everybody else. And, you know, they don't have like, secret access to, convenient flights. That is only afforded to like, everybody's on the same shitty 6 am flight the next day.
Nik:Yeah, that's a lot of what I've been working with Sippy on. You know, she's doing a headlining tour right now, fucking crushing it, and it's just like, alright, how do we keep our mindset, Solid. How do we keep our energy solid? What are some things that we can do to add to the routine and things that we can be working on just to make sure that, you know, we're, we're, we're surviving the road life and it's, um, it's, it's definitely possible, but like you gotta, you gotta put some time and energy into setting yourself up for success.
Harrison Bennett:and even when you're on the road, like, you know, for Sippy, for example. It's not a bus tour. It's a fly tour, right? So she's like, flying in and out. She's usually doing 2 to 3 dates a week, like, Thursday, Friday, Saturdays. And then she's flying back home Sunday, probably just before Totally crapped out by the time she gets home on Sunday and, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, she's, she's got to be like in the studio again, or she's got to like, turn out social media content or finish a remix or finish an EP like, you know, it's kind of a nonstop thing. It's definitely not for the faint of heart. Like, it's it's a, it is very much a grind. Especially at that kind of career stage that that Sippy's in and a lot of other artists where, you know, a large chunk of your of your pay every night is going to flights and hotels. Um, or you're paying for a photographer, some kind of media person to be at the show for you. And that's eating up your stuff. And then you have your, your commissions on the management or agent side that you got to pay. And then, just general cost of living. Like, you can't cook a meal in your hotel room. You got to go out for dinner and you got to eat some shitty fast food in an airport to kind of, like, stay alive. Like, it's, uh.
Nik:adds up
Harrison Bennett:not pretty. Yeah. It's, it's, you know, you don't really walk away with all that much money, on a lot of these tours, unfortunately.
Nik:yeah, that's why I like you got a fucking love it man you got to love this shit You got to eat sleep and breathe and this has to be your your passion. You know, you can't be doing this For from your ego and for the attention and for the clout or whatever that may be like if that's what's driving you like good luck, you're gonna get swallowed up. But if it's
Harrison Bennett:Yeah. You're going to get,
Nik:from a place of I am genuinely so in love and so passionate about making music and the scene and the culture and playing shows and engaging with fans like that's it will drive you to keep going. But you know, that's where we see a lot of people get swallowed up because it's like, well, probably weren't in it for the right reasons in the first place. Mhm.
Harrison Bennett:yeah. I mean, I see it with, with artists and I see it with, uh, even with like fans too, where like, there's seems to be like a three year cycle that I think people can kind of, you know, they'll, it was like three years of like, of going to every single show I possibly can or, You know, from a fan standpoint, and then they just get rinsed out. They're just like, they're cooked on it, or you know, they weren't there for the right reasons, or, um, their fan group has, like, aged out of it, or their musical tastes have changed, or whatever it is. And the same thing with artists. Like, artists will, like, Work on a project for 3 years, and then just like, won't get to the level that they think it should, or maybe they get tired of that sound and they want to bounce around and rebrand and go to something else. Or maybe they're just like, screw this. Like, I just want to be an audio engineer and sit in the studio all day long. But I think if you are. In it for the right reasons. Like the three years, you know, quickly turns into five years and seven years and 10 years. And, um, you're not really like looking out as like an out to get in on, like to get into the next level and you're just kind of like along for the ride and enjoying what, what it comes. And, um, there's not a clear. Kind of roadmap for artist development or what a career trajectory should look like. Everybody, I think has their own. Their own path they're traveling on and people, you know, hit different levels at different times. And it's not like, if you're, if you're not hitting this by like year three, then like you're fucking done. Like you can, you should just do something else. Like it's not, it's not the way it works, unfortunately, but it's three years of doing that is, will burn anybody out for the most part, so.
Nik:Well, the thing, the thing that's gonna Keep somebody going is if you're enjoying it and you're loving it and you're loving your life and you're happy, like, because if you're not, if you're, if it's a, if it's just a grind and it's a struggle and it's always you know, a horse chasing a carrot on the stick, you're always trying to get to that next level, you're not going to last that long. You know, this is so much of the work that I do. With artists as a coach, you know, it's recognizing like, there's always going to be another next level to get to. And if you're waiting to be happy. Until you get there, if you're waiting to be fulfilled, if you're waiting to really have fun, you know, you're putting everything off into the future because there's artists that they are full time and they're touring and they're getting the, you know, a decent rate, but they're not happy yet. Like, I won't be happy until I'm at the next level or the next level. That's never going to go away. We have to literally train ourselves to be like, no, you know what I wake up every day. And I put myself in a state, in an energetic, vibrational, emotional state of being happy and being fulfilled and being fucking full of life and full of love and full of gratitude. I bring myself to that place first, and now let me go make some music. And now let me go on the road. Not, I'll feel good when I get there. Cause that's gonna be an endless fucking cycle, right? No matter how much money you make, no matter how big your shows are like that, that's the game. And a lot of people kind of lose sight of that too along the way. And it's like, no, no, no. Come back, come back to the present moment. Now is the only time that we have to be fulfilled. That's when you get to start really, really enjoying the journey. And that's, what's going to keep you in the game for the long run.
Harrison Bennett:Yeah. I mean, you got to appreciate the trail, uh, not just the destination, because if you're not kind of enjoying in the moment, then you're really not going to know when you've like reached where you wanted to go either, and you're not going to enjoy that. So, again, yeah, it very much comes down to like, are you passionate about this? Is this absolutely what you want to do? Nothing else you can think of to do that's going to fill that void. Like, when people are happy in this space, then they are, you know, some of the. Best people to be around, I find, uh, and if they're miserable in it, then fuck, like, I don't want to be around that
Nik:yeah. And it's good. I mean, I hear that that is something that you guys are also looking for in who you welcome into the dead beats family. Obviously, the music's dope. We fuck with this like we would play it out. But also, yeah, do you have this, the right personality, the right vibe? Are we going to want to take you on the tour bus? You know, are you actually are you actually about it? Are you actually in it for the right reasons? How do you figure that out with maybe a newer artist that you guys are working with? Do you guys like have zoom calls with them and kind of, you know, is there like a, an interview process to kind of vibe people out or how do you actually, you know,
Harrison Bennett:That's an interesting question because, you know, a lot of our, like, A& Ring kind of comes from just like cosigns from other people. So you know, we have a network of, of artists that we work with regularly that will put us on to new music or, you know, my own network of like other agents or managers that are like, Hey, like, have you checked this out? This is pretty sick. Okay. Yeah. And then there's just like, you know, randomly meeting people at shows too, because we are, you know, we do all these events and the backstage. We usually keep pretty loose in terms of people that work in the industry. Kind of invite everybody back there, and that's always a good place to meet people and try to get a sense of who they are and what they want to do. And. It's not like I'm walking around with, like, a briefcase of contracts and I'm like, all right, like, we like you sign on the dotted line. It's a lot of like, a back and forth kind of like, wooing process. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think if you talk to anybody that's like, released on our label in the last 2 years, they would tell you that I'm absolutely. Painful when it comes to listening to demos, like, it takes 6 months sometimes to get around this shit, but it's also like, coming through a little bit of a place of caution on my end, where, like, we don't just kind of dive in on stuff. Um, we want to make sure that we're signing the right people that are going to last in this in this space long, a long time. And, um, we're very slow and kind of, cautious and how we move and sign lately, but having, you know, kind of other artists or other managers that we work with vouch for, for acts and be like, Hey, you should check this out. It's pretty sick. We've had them on shows for support and they, they do a good party. It's a good vibe. That's a a big, big factor for, for how we're signing stuff lately.
Nik:yeah, yeah, for sure. Just have that, that, that word of mouth, really Networking, for lack of a better word, but just, you know, being a part of the scene, being a part of the culture, developing relationships, being a fucking good person, goes so far, you know? Uh, yeah, I get that, I get that, cool. So it's not so much like we're just digging through demos all day long, you know, hunting for like that next sound, it's more like there's a natural kind of organic process to
Harrison Bennett:Yeah, and like I wish like I had more free time to kind of like dig on SoundCloud or go through my inbox And be like, oh shit like this is like some random thing that got sent to me I never heard from this person before or whatever, but do that for like our compilations, like our new artist compilations, like our, we are, we are deadbeat series or the deadbeats and brownies drum and bass package that we did, where it was more of like an open submission space. but for the most part of the, the stuff that we're releasing guys like singles or EPs, um, is kind of coming from a, a nurtured relationship that we've like developed over some time.
Nik:speaking of you guys just put out a compilation recently as well. Tell me about that.
Harrison Bennett:Yeah, so that was, uh, this is the 6th volume of, uh, the We Are Deadbeat series, um, and this was the biggest one that we've done. It was about 20 tracks, including a new record from Zedd's Dead, um, which they collabed on with Chi. And, um, I get these done like every year or two years or so. I think the last one that came out was in 2021. they just take a really long time to put together, like not only finding the tracks, but then also finding, a spot in the calendar that works for, in this instance, like 25 artists, so to make sure that they don't have their own releases coming out then too. So, yeah, I mean, you basically have to schedule it onto the calendar. At least, like, 4 to 6 months in advance to kind of make sure that it's going to work for everybody. And then. Uh, you know, it's a massive process of, like, getting everybody to submit their pre masters or their self masters, like, in on time and getting the artwork done and getting individual art assets done and pitching this into PR and, into the different, like, digital service providers as well. Just making it feel and sound cohesive is the other kind of final bit on it. But it's, you know, there are a couple of these tracks that were on there were demos that were sent to me last summer. Um, and I'm just like, I listened to it. I liked it, kind of set it aside. It was like, all right, this is a potential thing. And, you know, we built out, I think we had like 50 potential tracks that we whittled it down as much as we could and we got it down to 20. so it's a very, very long and intensive process, which is why I also only ever do this like every 2 years because it's like really a monster to kind of take a hold of. But, um, it's a great way for us to introduce new artists on the label. Kind of. expand the roster of folks that we're associating with deadbeats and also start to like test the waters with different genres or different styles of, of tracks too, and see what, what folks are responding to. It's just a great, like, you really don't know a lot of the time. Cause like, Just sitting, you know, in an office most of the time listening to music on my headphones and or like in my car. And it's like, okay, I like this, but does anybody else like this? Like, who the fuck knows? Um, and so a lot, this is like our chance to kind of experiment a bit more and just put stuff out there and see what folks are reacting to.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. Um, well congrats on the release. Quite a, quite a big endeavor. It
Harrison Bennett:Thank you. Yeah.
Nik:work goes into that. Um, let's talk about marketing. I want to know about. How you guys market a track because I think, you know, for everyone out there that's listening, they've got their new music, maybe they're getting signed and they get to partner with the label and have help and assistance with the marketing. But a lot of people are really still releasing music on their own and trying to figure out what's the best way to really get this out there. I'm curious from your perspective as a label, what do you guys do when you put out a track? Like, how do you actually get it in front of people? What are the, I don't know if you have like a, a checklist of things that you, you do with every release, but how does that look at the
Harrison Bennett:Yeah. So, I mean, there's, I guess there's different buckets for this, right? There's kind of like the, the visual packaging of the release, like artwork, motion graphics, all that kind of stuff. There's the social presentation of it on TikTok or Reels or Twitter, whatever the preferred platform is on that. And then there's, uh, paid media. So pitching it out to. Like most blogs now are paid placements. So, you know, for 250 bucks, they'll post your stuff on their Instagram
Nik:that's wild, man. I remember when blogs used to be fucking, you know, free, like what,
Harrison Bennett:Oh yeah,
Nik:was
Harrison Bennett:yeah, exactly. And
Nik:to get tracks from, from people. Like,
Harrison Bennett:it was not only that, but they were also just like, Oh, let me support, like I found this cool thing. Nobody else has found this. Let me put it out there. Um, yeah, it's that whole, that whole world has very much changed. So this is the paid me. And then there's also like, you know, buying ads on, Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok or whatever. and then there's the kind of more editorial promotion, uh, and marketing too. So how do we make this appealing to the editors that are doing the playlists on Spotify or Apple Music? so, you know, kind of break each one of those down. You know, the visual The artwork and the motion graphics and stuff like that. That's kind of like the purest form of, aside from the music itself, but, like, the purest form of like, artistic expression that that kind of goes along with this, like, whatever the artist wants to do, what do they see is like the visual elements that that match the sonic palette that they've put together. And so on that side, like, we. You know, we'll introduce them to whatever designers are in our network that they think could, you know, get the job done for them. If there's no fits, then we'll go out and outsource beyond that. Or if they have somebody they prefer to work with, we'll just try to. You know, make it happen and get it done as best as possible there. The social promotion stuff, that, you know, ultimately falls very much on the artist. We can help them strategize and, and try to figure out like, okay, we should do, you know, a bunch of live clips or we should post carousel posts, or we should get some new press picks, or, you know, whatever it is there. We'll, kind of. pay for, but then also help like kind of curate like what is actually going out into the world. Paid promo stuff. Like we obviously have a, a network of folks that we work with repeatedly. So we will, you know, kind of reach out to them and say like, Hey, what kind of content are you looking for? Can we figure out some kind of deal in terms of the promotion of this?
Nik:These are like social media accounts mostly
Harrison Bennett:Yeah, a lot of them are social media accounts. Um, a lot of them are like those like review pages on TikTok. And I say review in quotes because they're just like reacting to the music. Um, and those are like, You know, sometimes they'll pick stuff up organically and like, it's great, like saved everybody a bunch of money. And then other times it's, you know, you gotta, you pay them to, to, to take a listen to it. And, um, I will say the, uh, the reaction that they gave is always authentic. Like, they've, we've paid for stuff and they've been like, this isn't for me.
Nik:I was totally gonna ask that like are they required to give a positive
Harrison Bennett:No, I.
Nik:just like that
Harrison Bennett:Unfortunately, not, but I will say, like, sometimes like the, it's not even a bad review. They'll be like, very nice about it. But like, sometimes that's like, even more beneficial than like them being like, Oh, my God, this is amazing.
Nik:There's, there's no such thing as bad press, as they say,
Harrison Bennett:Yeah, and then there's, um, yeah, there's like the, the DSP pitching, which is like.
Nik:Yeah.
Harrison Bennett:how do we make this appealing? Like, so we've got to break down, like, the metrics and the growth that the, that the artist has had and, um, what their audience is like, and which, which playlist we think this will fit in and where, you know, things will react the best. So there's all those little elements that are kind of going in and, but I think, like, the most important pieces that gets overlooked a lot, especially when it comes to independent releases, is. Getting the music into the hands of other DJs and making sure that these tracks are getting played out and that it's, you know, the audience is able to react to it as well. And so I think that part got overlooked a bit, especially during, the pandemic when, like, everything was shut down and everyone was like, okay, I made this track. Let me get it out in a week. Um, I'll promote a little bit on tick tock or whatever. And it's just like, out in the world. But, you know, the stuff that we've seen getting the biggest reactions. At least on our label for the last couple of years has been stuff that has circulated. In amongst like, DJs for a few months prior to release. Or stuff that, like, you know, like, I guess levity flip it is a good example of something that, like, was made and then released pretty quickly. But the, the real push on it. Came not just from their social videos, but like making sure that like every single DJ had this track and that, you know, hopefully they'll play it and put it in their sets and then they'll make remixes or, or whatever. Distinct Motive is another good example where like he had this, he has this record Mellow Man, which we put out in January of this year, which he was like rinsing out for like six months. Before it came out, and you know, he had sent me a package of records and he was like, Hey, what do you like out of this? And I was like, Oh, like this one, this one, this one are pretty cool. Like, let's do an EP. And he was like, yeah, those are great. But like, Check out this. This one's getting a lot of DJ support and like immediately like that's, you know, I'm like, okay, well, that's clearly the winner. Like, I'm, I'm not aware. Like, I didn't get that off my headphones, but, you know, you start seeing videos of people reacting to the track live and kind of freaking out over it. And that's, that's to me is like, always like, oh, shit. That. Okay. Let's release that. Let's go for that.
Nik:And I imagine it's a little bit of a combination of Just people hearing the song in the crowd and they're, they're starting to maybe get familiar with it. Right. But the other element is having the video of that existing on social media. So there's this sort of like pre release social media buzz as well.
Harrison Bennett:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, uh, like for distinct motive, for example, there was this video of him playing a three 60 set at infrasound, uh, last year and it was during mellow man. And like the crowd was just like going apeshit during it. And like that video will get like popped back up and recirculated all the time. And it just kind of like, you know, it keeps promoting and pushing the track and it's really done. More work for that track than I think like any traditional marketing can do.
Nik:When it goes, it goes back to just the classic DJ method of like, test the track out with the crowd first, you know, like as you're making it, you're playing it and testing it out. Like, does the crowd like it? Does it get a reaction? You know, if you see the crowd freaking out, like, cool, there's something here, like, let's keep going. If it's not, then maybe it still needs to be worked on or it's just, not really a hit. And that, that does get lost. I mean, especially for. Artists that aren't touring or they're not really playing shows. You don't really have that ability to test it out But getting it
Harrison Bennett:But like, get it, yeah, get it into the hands of other DJs, um, you know, people that you think that who said it could fit into, like, don't send all of your demo, like all of your 140 dubstep demos to like Martin Garrix, like he's not going to play it. But if you get it out to like. You know, folks that you're like more easily able to network with and kind of make the, make the connections with, and that, that also like know you too, then they're going to play that track and they're going to support it and maybe they get a video of it and they send it over to you and then you've got, you know, you've got a bunch of stuff that you can share on your socials or build up and like help you, you know, pitch to a label or pitch to a manager or whatever it might be.
Nik:Totally. Yeah, that's just that, that social proof. I mean, in the, I just had Will Runzel, manager of Slander and Nightmare on two weeks ago and, you know, literally just broke down the formula in the same exact way. Just like, make really good music, make really good content, and get your tracks out to DJs and get them playing it and get that content too. You know,
Harrison Bennett:Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it sounds simple, but it's dance music. You know, like, and if people aren't dancing to it, then something's not fully jiving. Yeah.
Nik:So I'm also curious about as a label, you guys are obviously investing in these tracks. You gotta, you gotta pay for artwork. As you said, you're paying for, for the marketing. Are you making that money back? You know, and really, how often? I mean, I come from working in the major label, days you know, 2008, still selling CDs, and it was like, you sign nine artists and they lose money, but then the tenth artist makes enough to kind of recoup for all of it. Is it still kind of work that way? Like, what's that, if you're open to sharing, like, what does that look like on the back end?
Harrison Bennett:Yeah. It's, um, it's still a lot of, to be honest, like you'll have like a lot of, you know, passion projects.
Nik:Yeah.
Harrison Bennett:You're like, I really like this. This is a cool track. I like this artist. Maybe they don't have a massive audience yet. And he put it out and, you know, that's why I said, like, we don't like to burden the record with like a wild amount of debt, like we try to keep everything kind of like in line with how we think something's going to perform. And having done this now for eight, nine years, like I. Got a pretty good beat on, like, how much I think a record is going to make in, like, the next, like, six months or a year. And then beyond that, like, you don't know, like, something you can just, like, pop off randomly, you know, as a viral moment and, um, carries things. But, you know, for the most part, like, a lot of releases just kind of go and like, they break even, or maybe they lose a little bit of money or make a little bit of money, like, here and there, a little bit of pocket change. And then it's like a couple of the handful of releases that go out every single year that carrying the bulk of the label, fortunately, With Z dead on the label. We know that like those tracks are gonna go out and get, you know, millions of streams or whatever, and, uh, we can tailor our budgets accordingly so that, you know, we don't need to just break even on those tracks, but like a lot of those tracks can kind of support the variety of the label, that goes out throughout the year.
Nik:Yeah, yeah, because in the bigger picture, it's like, that's just helping grow the brand of dead beats in general. It's really like an investment, right? Even if we, you know, maybe lose a little bit on some of these songs, it's still helping the brand grow. And that brand is then getting to, you know, throw shows and probably make money off the shows. And there's like a bigger, a bigger ecosystem there.
Harrison Bennett:absolutely. It's, it's very much about like, kind of the, the overall picture. Like, I'm not looking at it like release by release. Like everything needs to, you know, it's not going to be like a steady, like. Going up chart on anything. There's always going to be ebb and flow and like, even with, you know, like saying like, you know, Zed's dad, like their releases kind of like help support a lot of these smaller things. They may take a year off and just like want to work in the studio and not release anything. Or maybe it's just like, it's more of a touring year and then we got to kind of have to, you know, budget accordingly with that or find other releases that we think can support a lot of these other, you know, kind of experimental projects that come out. I
Nik:Yeah, for someone that's self releasing, what kind of budget do they need to have? Obviously, the bigger the better, but like, at like a base level, how much could someone be expecting to put into just like a single release?
Harrison Bennett:mean, artwork, motion graphics, like, all that kind of stuff so that your release, like, goes up online and it looks, you know, official, like, it was done proper so that you have, like, something for your Spotify canvas and you have, like, something to go up on your, on your YouTube as well. So, you may not want to push your motion graphics on Instagram or whatever, because they perform terribly, but you're going to have to fill in those gaps on other platforms that and artwork. You know. You can get it done super cheap on Fiverr. Like you can probably get something for like a hundred, 150 bucks. Or you can get, you know, a friend of yours or something like that to do it for kind of cheap, but the safe ballpark is, I think, you know, paying between like 500 just to get your like, visual assets kind of locked in. But, you know, like I said, like, that stuff always performs awful on socials. So, uh, you know, you need to have kind of like a, a more organic promotion strategy, which can be done for. Nothing, but is going to, you know, require a fair bit of creative, input from yourself to get something out there. And then once it's out in the world, you know, you have to promote it. Um, you can promote it again organically, like posting on your feed and telling people about it, or coming up with unique ways to make a video. That's going to catch people's attention and pull them in. You can. Do it by promoting the record to different DJs and getting them to play it or paying for a promo pool service to kick it out to a wider network. Those are anywhere from like two to 500 as well. And then, you know, you could do some ad spend as well, which I don't think you need to go crazy on, but like, probably spend like, again, like 200 bucks to 500, whatever you're comfortable with. Like, you can, you can go pretty far with that, with that stuff, but I think in general, like putting out a release. I'll be looking at spending like 1, 500 to 2, 000 to like kind of get all those those check boxes done.
Nik:yeah, yeah, it's gonna go a lot further than just uploading your track and hoping that people see it, you know Maybe you maybe you get lucky sometimes but that's something I've heard from Just the marketing world in general like like marketing agencies is when it comes to your budget That basically whatever you spend on the creative, like you're creating a video, you're creating these really cool assets. I spent money on artwork. Maybe I made a music video that you should also be spending an equal amount of money on the advertising of it. You know, cause I think a lot of times we just put the whole budget and like, Oh, I spent a thousand dollars making all these really cool graphics and made this really cool video. And, but then you upload it. And nobody sees it, right. So you got to put another thousand dollars into running the ads and pushing it out and actually getting people in front of it. So that's, that's what I've heard about just kind of, uh, a basic rule of thumb is like half on the creative, but then also half on the advertising half on, on pushing it out. And I learned that lesson when I, I worked at icon collective and, we got a budget to make videos and I made it for a whole year, made all these incredible videos, little documentaries about each of our, uh, you know, clients, but then we just uploaded it to a YouTube channel that nobody fucking followed. We put all this super sick content. It was actually, well, now I think about it. Well, I think it was Will. Will Runzel was the one, uh, cause we did one with nightmare. He's like, yo, you gotta, you made this incredible video. You also got to spend the money to put, push this in front of people. That's just the way marketing and advertising works, you know?
Harrison Bennett:Yeah I know that that one to one ratio is I it's a very like kind of safe formula to go with but that stuff where it's You know and it doesn't need to be just like Oh, I spent a thousand dollars on, on a video. I need to spend a thousand dollars on ads. Like you could put some money into PR or put some money into like the blog promotion stuff or whatever it might be. But yeah, you gotta, you gotta pay to get it out in the world. Unfortunately.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. Well, my man, thank you so much for, um, peeling back the curtain, you know, showing us, uh, how the food is made in the kitchen, you know, and really digging into the, some of this stuff with us. I'm sure, you know, everybody's taken away a lot. I hope you guys are taking notes and applying this. I, here's the thing. I'm going to, I'm going to call you out. If you have been listening to, I don't know what we're on fucking 70 episodes of the headliner mindset podcast. If you've been listening every week and just listening. And not applying and not actually going out there and doing this shit. You're, you're dropping the ball. All right. So go back, take some notes, but actually please go back and apply the stuff. We're giving you, we're giving you the sauce every week. We're giving you the, the, the game plan here, you guys. So, good luck to you all. Harrison, thank you so much for hopping on today.
Harrison Bennett:My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
