Headliner Mindset

TRIVECTA - Balancing The Grind As A Full-Time Touring Artist

• Nik Cherwink

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Trivecta is a melodic bass music artist signed to Seven Lion’s Ofelia Records. He recently released his sophomore album with the label and is currently on tour to support its release, headlining venues and playing major festivals all over the country.

Follow Trivecta here:
https://www.instagram.com/trivectamusic

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Sam:

persistence, and consistency really key, you can do all the right things you can check all the boxes, you can make great music, make great social posts, make good friends in the industry, get an agent. You can do all this and still not get results you're happy with. Sometimes it takes just doing all of those things over and over and over and over again.

Nik:

What's up? Everybody? Welcome to the headliner mindset podcast Today's guest is a melodic bass producer who signed to Ophelia records seven lions records label He's a producer He's recently dropped his second album with them and has been keeping his tour schedule packed, headlining shows and playing the biggest festivals all over the country. This is Trivecta,

Sam:

Yo, what's up, man?

Nik:

my man. Welcome. Welcome. Stoked to have you here. We were just chatting before we started recording about, how's it been one of those, one of those days for us, we to, we had to get through some traffic. We had to get through some technical difficulties, but we're fucking here, bro.

Sam:

come on.

Nik:

to dive in.

Sam:

I mean, it almost kind of feels like sometimes live sets are sometimes like this. Sometimes if you have an early hiccup, it kind of puts you in a mindset where you're kind of like, you know what? All right. It kind of loosens you up right away. So I like we've already started our whole thing with that now.

Nik:

It's like, what's, what's the worst that could happen? I've already stumbled over the roadblock, you know?

Sam:

Yeah, exactly.

Nik:

That's a good point. I kind of want to just fucking dive right into the deep end

Sam:

Sure.

Nik:

you are a full time artist. You are living the dream. You're playing shows. You said you just got a headlining tour that you're starting. You just dropped an album on seven lions label. I mean, like, what a dream label for so many people. I know? This is a such an open ended question. And we can spend the next hour answering it But What did it take to get there

Sam:

Yeah, you, you, you weren't kidding with that being an open ended one. Well, I'll give my disclaimer first to everybody. This isn't my normal voice. I was at Escape this weekend. I certainly lost it. Yesterday was a disaster. So I'm doing my best. I'll clear my throat a bit. Um, bro

Nik:

sexy kind of scruffy post festival, you know, where you're like, I sound a little fucking manly now, you

Sam:

I was doing my Emperor Palpatine impression this morning. It works perfectly. These are ideal circumstances. But anyway, uh, so yeah, what does it take, man? What I found it takes is, I would say in the broad strokes of it are, keeping your eye on the ball, staying focused on what inspires you and adapting to meet the challenges that you face. As they keep coming and staying persistent. That's my basic broad stroke answer. Just depending on how we want to dive in. Yeah.

Nik:

your eye on the ball. And. Keeping your eye on the ball in terms of what inspires you rather than keeping your eye on the ball of what's happening in the scene, what's happening in the industry. Right. Uh, so I, I love that, that that's where you took that actually. So, um, tell me a little bit more about following that inspiration.

Sam:

Yeah. sure. and I think to your point, both of those things are important, but I almost want to say, I mean, at least in my experience, the first thing you said, keeping your eye on the ball of, what inspires you is probably most important. there are people almost radically in that train of thought. Rick Rubin is a good example who says, in his opinion, the audience, their opinion comes last. And, Jake killed the noise. He's one of my favorite sort of minds that I riff off a lot. And, he once said that the, the little voice within you that tells you what you like and what you don't like and throws you creative ideas, the muse, some might call it, um, it will keep speaking to you, but the less you listen to it, the less it'll talk to you, you know, until it just shuts up eventually forever. And I don't think it's a black and white thing. I think it's kind of a practice, you know, a practice learning how to listen to that voice. I mean, I've. I've been working on it myself and, you know, I've gone through phases where I'm like, damn, what do I even like anymore? You know? So then you get a burst of inspiration, you're like, Oh my God, that's what I like. I, I, I, it has been here all along, you know? And I think staying connected with that sort of, compass of taste, is just so important.

Nik:

Yeah. So a little sidebar was checking out your stuff going through a lot of your like Instagram content, there were two things in there that I saw that were really cool. I just want to ask you about it. When Yeah. You're kind of questioning what you even like right now. You coined the term, what was it like folk base or

Sam:

yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's it. it. Yep.

Nik:

So, so tell me about that folk base. I'm not seeing a lot. It seems like you're, you're creating a little, your own little, over here. What's folk

Sam:

Yeah. Um, and it wasn't even like some crazy, like super hyper intentional thing. I was in a phase during around when the pandemic started, uh, maybe give or take a year, maybe 2019 through 2020. Where it felt like, melodic bass, which was kind of the world I was in, had, especially with like a Lenny, I'm going to sort of pop space. And a lot of us were trying to copy the same couple artists. And it was kind of like, all right, if this genre wants to move forward, you know, it was sort of, it's sort of back up against the wall. Like if I want to do anything forward, thinking for it, then create my own lane. I need to kind of stop. focusing on what else is going around me and start thinking, okay, how can I dig in and take what it is that I like that maybe other people aren't doing. And maybe that I might be sort of uniquely poised to bring to the table. And I think, taste plus skillset kind of really come into play to interact there. And for me, I've just always loved really cozy sounding folk music, you know, like of monsters, men, your Mumford and sons, that kind of stuff. And so like, I started just trying to see, be like, all right, look, I mean, these are both. They're not too far away. They're both very feelsy kinds of music like melodic bass music and like folky stuff. They're also very immersive. They both kind of take you somewhere. So, like, all right, you know what? Let me start trying to figure out what I like about this other kind of music I'm listening to so much and try to work it in. And in doing so, it started to kind of create its own sound. And I don't want to do the stomp, stomp, clay, uh, stomp, stomp, clap, hey, folk music. God, it's like really cheesy. It was all about taking the sort of underpinnings of other parts of it and putting it together.

Nik:

Yeah

Sam:

So, yeah,

Nik:

You know, what you just said about that combination of taste and skill

Sam:

yeah,

Nik:

really stands out to me. Because it's kind of like, if you don't have the skill set, You can't really translate your taste in the first place. Right. I feel like where a lot of people are probably at where they're like, I'm still just developing the skillset of like actually getting good at these tools.

Sam:

huge,

Nik:

might have this, like, I, like right now I'm like, man, I really want to start a fucking, Drum and bass metal band. Like I vision for it. Like just works perfectly, but I'm like, I don't have the skillset to produce, you know, at like a sub focus level drum and bass, you know? But yeah, here that, that just brings up something I haven't really thought of that much, you know? For you, what would you recommend in terms of like really just developing that skillset? How did you get yourself? To a place in your skill set where you actually can have that playfulness with your taste and actually really incorporate it.

Sam:

I love it. You said playfulness because you almost can't get playful when you're exasperated and really. you can tell even when a DJ starts to get playful, when they're locked in, when it's usually not the beginning of the set, it's usually once they start flowing, you need to be in rhythm with almost anything to kind of get playful. And I think that in this case, that requires really developing a skill set before you can kind of toss little bits of it here and there for fun. And that to me is like you said, playful, that's where some of the best stuff happens. I think it takes like for me, the melodic bass stuff, Like the foundation was already there because I'd spent so long in that space. And then it took me doing a deep dive and I'd always highly recommend that. It took me like, it was like, okay, if I want to get into this folk music, I made a whole playlist of songs that were really inspiring me and try to figure out everything I liked about what worked about those and try to sort of cross pollinate. I noticed a lot of motifs, even quarterly, like a, a one to a four to a one again, like as far as on the music theory side or like how the guitars were recorded, I noticed a lot of them weren't going for, you know, certain type of guitar sound. They're going for a different type and so on and so forth. And all these little things, then you start figuring out, all right, Which parts of this don't I like? Which are the parts of it that make it a little cheesy? Maybe I don't want that. You know, and if you really take a deep dive and dig into a certain sound, then you can come back and dog. There were a lot of times where I made really clunky combinations of folk and a lot of bass. There were a lot of risers like, okay, this doesn't really work with that. But you know, you keep trying in different combos, you know,

Nik:

but it sounds like you really went in and studied. Like you said, you took a deep dive. to like approach that, like I really liked that of like, yeah, go, go study it, right. deep dive into this thing that you want to learn and pick it apart and look at it from all different angles and figure out like what works and what

Sam:

living it, get immersed by it. Yeah.

Nik:

Yeah. Now. I would say that it's important for people to also do that with the business side as well. like I'm, I do coaching. I consider myself a life coach, but a lot come to me for like business coaching as well, specifically working with, DJs and artists. And I've been in this space for, I don't know, 15, 16 years or something. And a lot of times there's people that I've spent. Hundreds, I mean thousands, thousands and thousands of hours of learning how to make music, you know. And you're just fucking neck deep in Ableton and you're watching all the tutorials. and then I just realized, I'm like, you haven't spent zero time Doing a deep dive in the business and learning how do you actually get this out? So was there a point for you where you had to Kind of make that deep dive into the business side and like are you like digging into that as well? Or did you just get fucking lucky

Sam:

Yeah, no,

Nik:

and everything just worked out that some what's gonna happen to them

Sam:

Yeah, no, definitely the former. It's definitely been a slow grind of things working over time and from doing exactly what you said yet for the business side, I mean, it's hard to be great at both. You know, it's like a pitcher, it's such a specialized skill set that they're usually not great hitters unless you live in LA. You're familiar with probably one guy who is, but besides that, you know, a lot of people who are very like artistic minded are not always very good on the business side. So it does take a dedicated sort of. focus. For example, like on, I think each project I do, especially the album stuff is where I really, Dig in and try to level up on the business side. Because I have more of a cohesive product to push. That's not just, Hey, how am I putting out one song? So like, for example, on this last album, I made it a point to get the album done, like at least close to done a month before it was supposed to be done. and that made it so I, once I turned it in and I couldn't touch it, I had about a month where every day I'd wake up and I couldn't go to studio because I know. That I won't naturally just think business. I won't naturally wake up and start thinking business. So what I did is I forced myself to like, okay, well, now the music's in and I can't do anything for a month here. I would be like, okay, I need to work on this. I want to work on that little thing. Okay, I guess we can work on the business side. That's all I had to work on. So I'd wake up and I would. Do these Google Docs, I would look at what other artists were doing from a business side that works and start to sort of compile a whole list of strategies, sort of what songs those would work for, save Instagram posts into different folders of things that I'd see, Oh, maybe I could take that kind of post and do that for one of my songs that did well for this guy, you know, and then try to reinterpret those ideas into the space that I'm in, you know, and say, how does this work for my music? And I think also a big thing is surrounding yourself with people as a. I've been able to bring people in, especially like the financial side of the business side, which will never be a strength of mine. I was able to bring in a good agent, a good manager who can, negotiate and things like that, you know?

Nik:

Yeah, I love hearing that, though. Just the fact that, you sat down and you just, you studied the landscape what are other artists doing? And what's let me look at social media and, like, get some inspiration from there. And, you know, I love that. You even had folders and everything. Like, I think that a lot of artists are doing that. And for everyone listening, like take fucking notes because, maybe you're not even at that phase yet. Like maybe you still just need to be working on the music and developing that skillset. But if you are, releasing and you're putting out your tracks, yeah, have some systems and some folders and some take some deep dives into learning the game, know, I think that just, that's an important like mindset to have. So

Sam:

Yeah. Time to switching gears. And working on making sure you're even if it's not a strength. I honestly think if you just dedicate some time every x amount of time to focusing on the business It'll probably put you ahead of a lot of guys already just by doing

Nik:

Oh yeah. a thousand percent. Take me back to when you went full time. Like, going from, yo, I'm making bleeps and bloops in my bedroom. You know,

Sam:

Yeah. Yeah

Nik:

To oh no, I'm actually like, this is my career. And, and you actually like, went full time with it.

Sam:

It was scary. i've been teaching guitar for eight years that's how I was making my money that and like You Maybe about 1, 000 a month on, on just, passive income from, Just my releases that I had, on streaming and whatnot and, coming out of the pandemic when all the shows came back, I had picked up a good bit of momentum online and when the shows came back, a couple shows went really well and so on and so forth and eventually I was able to attract the attention of bigger management, bigger agency, and they said, Sam, you know, I think this is probably time to make that jump, you know, and I don't remember if they said it first, if I said it, but that was kind of the consensus. And, yeah, I had to quit teaching. I had to say goodbye to about 20 students at one time and, and take that little leap. It was crazy at the time. Now I'm like, I would have zero time to do any of the teaching right now with how busy it's gotten. But yeah, that was a challenging transition for sure.

Nik:

And you said you had gotten enough momentum, though, to feel like it was ready. So, like, that?

Sam:

I don't even know that it felt ready, but it felt like I was at the point where I don't think I, I just couldn't do both anymore, and it was like, if I want to make more progress on the music thing, I'm going to need to free up more runway here. And so, no, I actually, I think I misspoke there. It didn't feel ready. It felt like I had to or it wasn't going to go anywhere. and it was the same thing as when I did my first headline tour. I was like, guys, I've no history in some of these markets. How in the hell am I supposed to go headline? This is probably eight months after I quit. And I was like, I definitely am not ready. And in certain markets, I probably wasn't, but my team said, Sam, like now's the time. Now at some point you have to assert that you have to make that jump, you know. Yeah, yeah, And I think there's something really powerful, energetically when you just say you just take that leap of faith and it's like all right bitch I'm all in like we're fucking doing this and it's like the universe sees you Acting with courage and Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Nik:

you for taking that leap of faith, you know, think that Yeah, for anyone that's listening right now, I think there's a handful of people that are, getting to that point, right? I know someone's listening to this right now. And there is something about the leap of faith. It was same thing with me for coaching. Like I was, coaching. Kind of on the side is like my little side hustle,

Sam:

Okay. Yeah.

Nik:

learning and, did like a coaching certification. I had little clients here and there. It was sort of making a little bit of money. And then for me, I can't actually take full credit for, wanting to go full time. I was in that limbo phase of like, is it, am I ready? I want to save up a little bit of money, have a little bit of a cushion. And then I actually got let go from my job. And so then it was like, that was the universe pushing me off the cliff. but there's just this thing where it's you just kind of figure it out. You know, like once you take that leap, it's just like, all right, well now I have to swim.

Sam:

I mean, don't you find that you think of things differently when your feet are dangling and you're no longer walking anymore?

Nik:

Yeah. It's almost just like an identity, you oh, I'm not a part time artist anymore. I'm a full time artist. And so when you're, when you actually own that identity, you step into it, you just show up differently,

Sam:

the whole thought process changes.

Nik:

Yeah. 100%. So you had like a team and a manager at that point though. So shows weren't happening for a while, but you had some, you had a team at that point.

Sam:

Yeah. I've been through a couple of teams over the years and, all of them were great at the time that it was, that I was at, and you know, ultimately, your needs and everybody's needs change and everybody adapts and you sort will move on with, you know, different groups of people that feel appropriate at the time. And, I just moved into a new team, a new management and new agency and yet I think that was towards the end. It had to have been right around, right before the show started. I think it was probably a couple months before the shows really started coming back. I had just done. A couple festivals and like it was clear that some of the momentum I really focused on building online during the pandemic was translating to the shows. So that's when everybody sort of took notice. And from there, just kind of kept moving.

Nik:

Yeah. So what were you doing online to create some of that buzz

Sam:

Yeah. before. I was playing shows originally in like the early, in the mid 2010s, I was just producing, and that's where the TriVipta thing started, and I was releasing on Monstercat, and the big YouTube channels were picking it up, and I was doing, then I started playing shows. when the pandemic started, I was like, Oh shit, we're kind of back to my space again here. We're kind of back online again. And like the whole TikTok thing wasn't real big back then or anything. It was just kind of like, yeah, a lot of guys whose whole job, their whole identity was just throwing parties every night. I think a lot of them were kind of in a position where it's like, Oh shit, what do we do? Because we're only sort of in person. And I had sort of learned to do the in person thing over the last few years, but my foundation was more. Talking to fans online. So I was like, Oh, all right, we're coming back. We're going to leverage this. So I built a discord and the discord thing really popped off and I started actually twitch streaming when I was producing music and I think some of them are still on YouTube where I was just like, I would just let the stream run and just work on songs in the studio and talk to fans. Sometimes I'd be, I would just, you know, communicate and try their ideas and so on and so forth. And, do question and answer sessions. and then when I put out the EP, which was like the first bit of, It was the everyday EP. It was like the first bit of folk bass, you know, and, that's when I was really able to use the internet and the sort of mouthpiece I had at the time to communicate to the fans the intentions behind what I was doing musically, communicate the thought process, behind the development and the sound. So all that kind of created a little bit of a storm where when shows came back, I had a much tighter knit community.

Nik:

Yeah. I love that you were comfortable with the online space and embraced it. Like you said, that Mouthpiece and you focused on leveraging that to build your community, is that, that I think comes up a lot, that we talk about on the podcast is just, there's a lot of times Social media in general right but I love that, like, you also, you know, you weren't just doing silly TikTok dances, right? I think that's where a lot of people feel the resistance. I literally just had, a coaching call with, a metal band that potentially wants to work with me, which is so fucking sick. I would be stoked to that. Yeah. But that was their big thing. They're just like, we don't want to, like, Be inauthentic and like

Sam:

Right. It's huge. Sure.

Nik:

doing, you and I totally get that But seeing how there's other areas one like just, you know getting on discord using twitch you know really great platforms for building community, but Overall what I see I think the biggest Starting point is just literally your mindset around social media and the online space in general, like you didn't resist it. You were like, Oh, cool. Like I can go back to this place and let's jump in. As opposed to fighting it tooth and nail. It's like, oh, I don't want to be a fucking, I don't want to be an influencer. I don't want to, have to be, I don't want to have to do this stuff. That's, the big, that's the big kind of limiting belief that I see a lot of people get caught up in. It's like, I don't want to have to do this

Sam:

Sure. Yeah I feel like to be fair, it was a little bit of a different time too then. Because, this was before. Social media over the last, you know, a couple of years has become so, rewarding, it's become so focused on sharing content that people will just sort of virally just share with each other as, it's harder to maybe get community driven authenticity going. It's not impossible at all. But I think back then when this all happened, it was easier for me to be like, because I was leaning on the authenticity side too. So it was like, yeah, it was like, Oh, cool. I'll just start Twitch streaming. And people were like flocking to Twitch. People were flocking to Discord. And now it is challenging.

Nik:

at that time that was the pandemic, so everyone was just stuck inside and like looking for cool shit do. So yeah that makes

Sam:

Now we're in a spot where like, a lot of artists are struggling with, the type of thing that works, the authenticity isn't getting as much, unless you find like a really clever spin, and it's been a struggle point for me as well, you know, putting out an album and watching as things don't get the clicks they would have before, because, it's not. Something that the algorithm recognizes as something that a bunch of people are sharing with strangers, you know, it's like, well, I'm not necessarily trying to do that right here. I'm trying to show my fans that I'm putting out an album. I don't want to hide that messaging in some sort of code behind some viral clip, you know? So it is challenging but to your point, yeah, man, like it is a game that we do have to play and we all do have to kind of, I guess, discover our own voice for that. And I brought a team on myself to help with exactly what you're talking about, help sort of come up with. Ideas for social media that can at least, keep things churning because you're right you can't really fight it right now as challenging as it can be.

Nik:

Yeah. Yeah, It does bring up a good point, though, as well. I know there's like a generation of artists where Things were different. You put a fucking remix up on SoundCloud and just pop off. It really has only been the last couple of years that huge shift towards social media has become, It's always been prevalent, but now it's feeling a little bit more, There were just easier ways to kind of and blow up before. So

Sam:

Sure.

Nik:

And that's the truth is like, it's always going to change though. It's like the landscape is always going to change five years before that it was different. Five years that it was different too. So like keeping up with where things are at is important, I think.

Sam:

Isn't that the challenge because we started this conversation talking about? You had mentioned how important it was what I said about keeping your eye on the ball as far as your own intuition But when you're focused so deep within your side yourself, it's hard to do exactly what you're saying, which is such an important thing to do, which is keep an eye on sort of how things are moving. At the same time, it requires you to look at a million things at one time to make it in this industry.

Nik:

Yeah. it's wild. I kind of use duality as a real foundation of my coaching. It's just the duality of, whether that's like the energetic spectrum of like masculine and feminine energy, or just the duality of, being, an artist, but also being a producer. I look at being artist as the, that's the intuitive Rick Ruby flow and flowy side, but the, or that's the taste side, right? But then also being a producer is having that technical skillset or be at being an artist, but also being a business owner. It's, it really is the integration of both and of all of it. I, you know, it's, it's interesting cause you do have a team. I think in a perfect world, it would be set up so that an artist can really just focus on their zone of genius and your manager who's really gonna like run the business for you. It seems though that still that even with a manager and you got a team, it's still like you can't just be in the studio,

Sam:

No, it, dude, you couldn't be more on point.,as going back to Jake, kill the noise he once said that you are the sort of central nervous system of your whole project and every decision. Every idea, it all stems from you. It all comes from you. And nobody's going to care about your project nearly the way you do. I wish it were so like what you were just saying, like that ideal world where like you could just focus on the creative but if that were the case, every creative would just be like, all right, I'm just going to be super creative and this fly. My agent Max, he told me early on when I started working with him, he's like, dude, you gotta remember your CEO. He's like you're an artist, but you're also a CEO. You're a CEO of Tribecta music., my photographer slash tour manager has me in his phone as a CEO, Sam, and this stuff reminds me, I got to wake up and every day, I got to be the one who, who thinks like, Hey, Where are we here with this? What are we doing with this? What are we doing with that? Because otherwise, somebody else will do that, you know?

Nik:

Yeah. I really love that though. That is just that CEO mindset. Like, yeah, you gotta wake up and really like run the business

Sam:

Yeah, you do.

Nik:

And your life. What is your day to day look that?

Sam:

Depends on what I'm doing at the time. I can tell you it starts when I wake up and ends when I go to sleep. That's the constant. Today was actually the first time in so long where I woke up and was like, Oh my God, I don't have something immediate that I need to be like. I had to get a post up for the weekend and sort of start talking social media plan for the week for all the stuff we did this weekend and to continue pushing album songs. But, I did the whole album. I mean, the album I woke up every day for a year and a half if I wasn't on the road and I would. I would just work. I would just go to studio. I would, go to the gym and come back to the studio, work more. I would work on the social media stuff. I would work on the business stuff. I would take notes. I would do blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera. Then when I had the album in, like I said earlier I got in a full sort of almost all marketing business mode kind of side of things. And then, but I'm doing all that while playing shows every week, almost every weekend, The zoomed out is usually weekends or shows and weekdays or wake up and drink out of a firehose just like here's everything I'm supposed to be doing here's everything I need to be doing let me just you know, and then and do it all it's crazy because once I, you know finished the album. And once I was in that marketing space, then I was like, okay, shit. Now I got to focus on rolling out the album. And now I got to focus on the tour, and building my live show, you know, because I only had a couple weeks to get that together because a whole new album to get out and into the set. Plus a live show. All the other music I've done over the years. that kind of goes back to doing all that has to have your fingerprints on it. Like you said, if you have a whole team doing all that stuff for you, it's not going to have your fingerprints on it. It's all going to be generic, whatever. some guys decided to do it. Then as soon as the tour started last weekend. It's like, Oh my God, just finished time to get on the road. And then I get back from tour and it's like, Oh my God, first festival since the album is up. So now I need to shorten my tour set by 35 minutes and come up with a festival version. So I just spent all week on that and working on that with my VJ. So she would be ready for that. And that was every single day last week. And I just got home late last night and I woke up this morning. I was like, Oh my God, I have no shows this weekend. The set is done. The festival set is done. The album's out. We just got to promote and I'm kind of okay.

Nik:

Yeah.

Sam:

So the day to day is always changing.

Nik:

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like music is pretty 24 7 for you Do you have stuff outside of music that you're creating space for in your

Sam:

I need to do a better job of that. The gym is a good one and my gym schedule isn't as good as it was right now. Sometimes I'm only doing once or twice a week But that helps a lot. And I'm always better. I can tell you know that I can see I guess I see that physique to the screen.

Nik:

my mental health. It's my therapy, bro. It's up. I haven't gone to the gym. I guess I went Saturday, but even just not going today, I didn't go today. And I've just been in a funky ass fucking mood all day.

Sam:

it's not same.

Nik:

no, I need it for my mental clarity.

Sam:

It's huge.

Nik:

yeah, it's important

Sam:

huge. You're right. Cooking was a big one for a while, but I kind of got out of that. Now, I sort of fell out of rhythm with that. I was posting online. I was posting stories, cooking. That was like a really big one for me. I maybe we should get back into that. but dude, I honestly, man, I got to do a better job of finding more about these days.

Nik:

Yeah. I had West End on here a little while ago and we conversation about that. Just about, the importance of having, I don't know, just non-music stuff, like real, like just real life stuff.

Sam:

Do you see, are there any common kind of things you're seeing other artists do that seem to be good balancing activities for them?

Nik:

Yeah, just getting outside, as a music producer that, yeah, if I, I call you guys the production gremlins,

Sam:

bro, I got a little cretin yeah, dude, yup, yup,

Nik:

in the, studio all day, like never seeing sunshine at all. So, actually, right before, we got on before we were going to connect, I did what I call a hot boy walk. And I, so I just go outside. I'll do like a 15, 20 minute walk, take your shirt off, get some sunshine. I just put on some of your tracks just to listen like I told you, I did an exercise today, so I was in a little. I can't, I was like, I can't be bringing funky energy into this fucking

Sam:

yeah, no way.

Nik:

going to go do a hot boy walk and shift the energy. And so that's just one simple little thing, but I think any kind of, outdoor activities are always going to be good. I think Weston was saying he just plays Pickleball or tennis or some shit like that, But just something to get out and do that I think the other big one is is also like having non producer friends. That's a big one you know, a lot of my friends and clients have talked about it just like, you know It's so rad to have all the producer homies But it's also you know We just end up just still talking about music all the time still just nerding out so to have You Like a place and a community or a group of friends that you can go to where you actually really shut that part of your brain off for a

Sam:

Huge. Yeah.

Nik:

think it's important.

Sam:

Yeah. I think if I did the hot boy walk, I would have people be calling the cops on me. I got to get rid of a little more stubborn belly fat Um, I,

Nik:

That's a big part of it. That's a big part of it is like actually having no fucking shame or like regardless where you're at, you seeing the same thing. seeing this one girl, she's like, can girls do it too? I was like, dude, she had her fucking sports bra and it was like a week of her preparing herself. And she like sent me a video. She's like, I finally fucking did it She's like, I don't care. It was breakthrough for her.

Sam:

Yeah, sure.

Nik:

over the fear of, judgment. So it's

Sam:

I want to get back where I used to love playing basketball. I want to get back into that, that to the pickleball point, that would be great. And, as far as the friends thing, I'm so blessed in that my, I have a great network of artists, buddies that I talk to, every day. interestingly enough, you'd be surprised how little music we talk about sometimes, and it's funny because it's all, most of us really think about most of the time, but, but when we're all growing out, we're like very rarely, you know, we just catch up a little bit about it, but then it's just like a lot of other shit.

Nik:

Jason Ross one of the dudes in

Sam:

One of my, one of my best friends and he's right in Yup.

Nik:

the homie also.

Sam:

Oh yeah.

Nik:

He mentioned that as well. I he mentioned

Sam:

That's chat. That's

Nik:

with like, yeah,

Sam:

you. Did you, did you have Mon recently? Really?

Nik:

He was on, just a while back. Yeah, but we had known each other from L. A. from like, probably like literally 10 years

Sam:

Oh, sick, dude., I could see that. I could see, I could see this in your energy. You guys could get along Yeah, the best.

Nik:

So let's, bring it back to anyone out there that's listening, that is an artist that's on this journey, that's coming up in the game, like what kind of advice would you give them?

Sam:

Man, um, persistence is a big one. I mean, the thing I was saying earlier, but I think we touched on that already about keeping your eye on your own influences, and, creating your own sort of sound and remembering, that, it has to all come from you at the end of the day, creatively, but I think aside from that persistence, and consistency are really key, I've definitely done well over my 10, 000 hours on this, it's like, you know, just doing and doing and doing and doing And you can do all the right things and not have, you can check all the boxes, you can make great music, make great social posts, make good friends in the industry, get an agent. You can do all this and still not get results you're happy with. Sometimes it takes just doing all of those things over and over and over and over again. So I think consistency is a huge one. And also to some extent. You know, maintaining some sort of semblance of stoicism, not getting too high. I don't know if I used the right word there, but like not too high, not too low. Trying to, you know, celebrate your highs. Don't get too down when you're in the pits. And when you do, talk to some buddies about it. Try to make sure you can have a cruising altitude.

Nik:

Oh, bro. Yeah, I think you just nailed that. Especially that talking to people when things get low

Sam:

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Nik:

literally like Just such a huge part of my life is getting to be the person that people

Sam:

That's cool. That's awesome,

Nik:

you know, I'm on the,

Sam:

But you probably need that too,

Nik:

That's the thing, dude, is I just, I'm finally learning that lesson. I'm like, I've always been the rock and I'm been the support, but now I'm finally learning that. How to, just reach out when things aren't going good. and it takes vulnerability and it takes honesty, but fuck, it's a superpower. And also seeing the consequences of if you don't, and you're just white knuckling fucking life, holding onto the steering wheel as hard as you can, trying to push, push, push. And you're just carrying all of this heavy baggage with you. Like it's going to catch up with you and

Sam:

man. It

Nik:

and you're going to spiral out, you know?

Sam:

Yeah, dude, it'll weigh you down. And I can't tell you how many times my group of buddies, the same group that Jason was talking about, that same group has just talked me out of being just in such like a crappy headspace about everything, and I can tell when it's happening and I'll jump in and I'll just send a whole novel to the group chat, you know, and, And some, somebody will start poking and asking questions and start saying the right things and just talking through. And, yeah, I can't tell you how many times that, that's really just helped to turn my mindset around.

Nik:

yeah, it's having those buddies, having that circle, having that community, and then also having the courage to be real and be vulnerable

Sam:

Not being afraid to ruin the vibe

Nik:

Yeah. When someone asks you like how you're doing, you're like, Oh, I'm good. I'm fine. It's like, no

Sam:

just or or you just hit the unsolicited, all right, boys, I got a vent, boom, know?

Nik:

Yeah, I need that, man. That's, great. Now, I mean, I guess we're kind of answering that question here, leaning on other people for support. but we were talking about how consistency and persistence is important, and like you said, it's when you're going and you're working and sometimes still not seeing the results needing to just keep going and dig even deeper. How do you push yourself through those moments

Sam:

sometimes you almost don't. Sometimes, you just have enough things on the books that just simply putting one foot in front of the other and trudging through things will just eventually kind of happen to put you in a little bit of a better space. You know, sometimes it's about just marching forward even if you don't know how to dig yourself out. You know, you just gotta if you're not happy with how things are going, you just got to kind of just keep going, and other times, the other times, you got to figure out when a story when it's a situation that you want And whether that means, telling people about things that you aren't happy about and seeing what you can do to figure it out. Sometimes it takes venting to people. I can't tell you how many times I've vented at my team to my team, you know, and said, Hey, like, I feel like we need to be doing a better job of this. I'm not happy with how we're looking with this, you know, if your team is good and if they're there for you, they'll listen and they'll, Hear you out, but it's hard to do that by yourself. Sometimes it's, you know, you got to, like we were saying earlier, talk to other people about it. But yeah, sometimes, like I said, it's about, it's a, it's about half. It's about pushing when you don't even want to push, not waiting for motivation, you know, just being like, hey, things aren't going the way I want right now, but I'm just going to keep going anyway, you know, and even if you don't have the motivation, sometimes you got to have those days where it's like, you know what, actually. Right. I don't have it. I don't have it today. And as long as you avoid getting in too much of a rut for too long, it's good to take a zero day and be like, You know what? I'm gonna sit on my ass today. You know, sometimes you have to do it

Nik:

Oh, for sure, dude. I had a couple of those days like a week ago. I

Sam:

Big, right?

Nik:

was more like a week. I was like, you know, this week, I don't think I'm going to do that much. I just going to fucking chill.

Sam:

Dude. it's like that, it's like that movie Office Space when he like stops just giving a shit. You, sometimes you gotta do that. You really do.

Nik:

yeah, yeah, yeah. we're not machines, man. We that, you know, it's like even just hearing this, like there's, it is a pretty 24 seven kind of nonstop grind, you know, especially like when things are happening and you're like, I, now I'm touring and I got a fucking album coming out. It's like we're creating almost a lifestyle that requires us to be a machine, when no matter what we do, we're never going to be machines. We're always still going to be human, and it's important that we take care of our, you know, little human selves

Sam:

you do. It is, man. There are periods when I was finishing the album, as well as playing shows, as well as like everything that comes with all that, and I was also like going out doing photo shoots for the album, filming content for the album, and at the same time, I was so in my head about the album, I had spent so long on it, and it was, my biggest focus in the world, but nobody had heard it. And I believed in it, but that weird disconnect you get when you believe in it, but you're so sick of it because you've heard it so much. And then your brain convinces you it sucks, but you know, it doesn't because we learned how to sort of negotiate that mind field. But still It's only in your head, and it's all you live with every day, and then you're also going out filming content for it. And you're like, oh my god, are people even gonna like it? And then you go out for a couple days, and you do a few shows, and then a day of content shooting is tacked to the end of that show run. And you get back for two days, and then they're like, hang on, this song is due. And it's like, oh my god. God, the kick drum sucks. And it's like, what am I going to do? Am I going to switch the kick drum at the end? And then you do it and it sounds worse. And then it's due. And then you have a show the next day. And then there's 11 more songs to finish. And that goes on for a year straight. And it's just like every day. And it's like any day that you lose, you're like, hang on. I'm just, I know that at the end I don't have as much time as I need to do all this by the deadline. So it's like, all right, well, every day that I lose is, you know, like, I'm just going to be further from where I want to be when this all thing has to turn in. so you just in this space, it's like you become a machine. And to your point, you got to remember, like, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I can't do this all the time. You need to find a way. To kind of chill out a little bit.

Nik:

Yeah, man. So when's your, when's, when are you planning your vacation for yourself

Sam:

it's so funny. Um,

Nik:

coming?

Sam:

yeah, Max Freeman, who is a absolute goat of an agent. Out in L. A. to, he's a super, he's a super agent. He not only,

Nik:

he's the man.

Sam:

you know, you know, right?

Nik:

I would not, I mean, definitely know of him. We're like homies, but I tell him I want to get him on the podcast.

Sam:

Yeah. Oh, I.

Nik:

I'll get him on.

Sam:

I will. He's great talking about this stuff. I will actually. he's not only a great agent as far as, getting shows and the things that an agent does, but he believes in the project and makes me feel believed in despite the fact he has like, you know, 20 some clients or whatever. And I always have the time of day from him. he hit me up the other day and he goes, Sam, this period of time after the tour is over, he goes, you know, I'm not booking shows for a few weeks because unless we get something really good that we really, really want to do, he goes, I'm, and I literally, and I refresh the, touring grid and our little, you know, calendar and it's just a couple of weeks of red, you know, and he's just like, Sam, he's like, you need an end date. You need something, you know, and once this thing is over, and he said, make no mistake, you know, you're going to get driven into the ground. I'm driving into the ground before that, but. He's like, you're not going to do it yourself. So I need you to do it for me. He's like, I'm going to force you to do it

Nik:

Yeah.

Sam:

to answer your question. Probably like March, March, mid to late March, early April. We'll probably, yeah, the

Nik:

That's the nature of the game. So how do you stay balanced in the meantime?

Sam:

Uh, I didn't, I haven't been, That's not the pretty answer. this week I will, this week I, I'll do a better job because like I said, this, is the first week where I don't have like an immediate pressing thing.

Nik:

alright. Hot boy walk. Here's my, here's my thing, man. 20 minute boy walk at least once a day. That, keep it simple. day. Put your headphones on. Put some happy music. Walk around. I don't know if it's sunny out where you are. If it's sunny, you gotta pop the top. Get some sunshine. Get some vitamin D.

Sam:

Yeah. Okay. I live in a beautiful spot for that here in channel side Tampa. So, okay. I'll take you up on that.

Nik:

Do it, bro.

Sam:

Yeah, yeah, I will. It's gonna be, folk metal, viking metal. It's not gonna be very happy music, but that's, but, yeah, yeah, we'll be, we'll be going.

Nik:

that was the other question I was going to ask earlier. Was I did see you and Seven Lions, playing this, this, like, Viking metal drinking song. and, and and it, and you were involved in that song in some way. I need to story behind this, because fucking

Sam:

this will be perhaps the most polarizing song I've put out. It will be one of the most polarizing songs I know Jeff's put out in a while. Jeff put me on early in the pandemic, to a band called Ensoferum. They are a, I think, probably the world's biggest folk metal band. They're out of Finland, and it's all, I mean, their last song, their previous album was all Songs of the Sea. You know, they have a, A song called Run Women Victory. it's like, you know, very much stuff that makes you want to, and I love, obviously, you know, I love like folk influence anything and their stuff is all folklore driven, Norse mythology kind of stuff, and so, it's very immersive. Jeff put me on to them in the beginning of the pandemic and I, they have been my most listened to act since that day, I'm upset. I wish, no, I wish them. All the time. We've always, Jeff and I have wanted to, for years make a drinking song. We both share a similar love for a lot of that stuff. A lot of like similar love for, you know, they get a Irish pub. You're not gonna drink, you know, mug with a handle beer. Slashing thinking, oh no, no, hey,

Nik:

Yeah Yeah.

Sam:

So, I'm always trying to make stuff like that, and we've always talked about making stuff like that, and it's always a little too cheesy, it's never quite right, and one day I made a demo, and I sent it to him, and I was like, dawg, what do you think of this? Should we, like, try to do this? And he goes, yeah, like, let's run it, and I forget which one of us was like, do we try Ensoferum? Do we, like, see if they could maybe start and these guys, if you look these guys up, they are, these guys are legit Vikings. I mean, they are full on fucking, you know, they're the real deal. And, Man, they hit us back and they're like, yo, we love the song. We'd love to, we'd love to, I was like, Oh, shit. So, so they sang on the song and, you know, drink, drink, drink till the dawn arise. and, this song is a really good, it's a really good artistic exercise that I would say that anybody listening to the podcast could probably take something from. Cause I've learned a lot from it is, you have to keep your eye on the ball. I. Love the song so much Jeff loves the song so much and when we play the song a lot of the crowd Loves the song so much But there are always people and you can't see them because they're in between the people jumping up and down But I'll read comments online and I'll see things. I remember somebody said something online I forget where I saw it but somebody else I was like tagged in like a thread and somebody said like I saw Shardek to jumping up and down doing this pirate song. I think he referred to it as the cringiest thing he'd ever seen in his life. And I was like and at first that like stung. then I remember, I was like, Hang on, this is like the greatest lesson in following the Muse, because somebody has to be brave enough to do it. And there are so many fans who are like, I need this song every day of my life. Where is it? Give it to me. And it's very polarizing. There aren't a lot of people who are like, it's all right. There are people who are like, this is incredible. When there are people who are like, this sucks, but I believe in it and I can't make the song and play it if I don't believe in it. Same with Jeff. And, I think it's a really good exercise in just being artistically brave and like the Rick Rubin mindset, in some places maybe the audience does come last and if you're just following your gut, doing what you like, people who like that as well will find you. And, you know, it won't be for everybody. And if, when I play it in the set, if you don't like it, you just, that's your piss break for three minutes, you know, and then you come back.

Nik:

I love that. I mean, first off, I will say I'm a big metal head I'm on a Marth. I fucking

Sam:

Great. Great.

Nik:

good old, some good old Viking metal.

Sam:

Yep. Yep.

Nik:

I will, I will be one of those people jumping up and down in the crowd to that song, but me of Avicii, who is forever will be my number one favorite artist Came out to ultra in whatever, 2017 or something

Sam:

Yeah, it was earlier than that. Oh

Nik:

earlier. Yeah. With 2013, maybe then, with a fucking

Sam:

With the country band. Yep.

Nik:

like a banjos and singers and half of, you know, probably more than half of the audience, like literally like left, they just like, what the fuck is this? And then. You know, a month later, wake me up is like the number one most played song on Spotify

Sam:

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Nik:

is, I think an artist role to take risks and to push the boundaries, and if you're never polarizing anybody ever, you're probably, just painting within the lines way too much, you know? So I love to see you doing that. And, Sullivan King's a great example of that as well. I used to teach at icon collective. He was a student of mine. I him very, very early on in his career as well. And like, he was, it was cool. It was like. He was trying to be like Swedish house mafia in the making like big room house and shit. then one day we dude, like you've been playing the guitar, like your whole life, like, why don't you fucking bring your guitar into it? he just like kind of took that chance of like, what if I just fucked the fuck around and found out, you know, what if I just like started playing some metal on top of this, you know, bass music shit. And it was like, cool. And he just completely like up the doors. Yeah. So

Sam:

It's huge, huge,

Nik:

gotta take those risks, man.

Sam:

man. It's such, such an important way of thinking. And and in a similar lane,, I come from a jam band background and, that couldn't be much further from melodic music.

Nik:

yeah. Yeah.

Sam:

but once I started working the guitar into the live set I realized most of my strengths playing in the jam band were from moments where it wasn't just a quick rockstar guitar solo, like I do in the trivecta sets, but really kind of. These songs that the band would do would be these extended improvisational sections. I mean, it might be 15 minutes where before the song came back for air for lyrics again, and it wasn't check Sam out playing the guitar. It was. The guitar is the lead instrument. That's almost your tour guide taking you through the journey that the music is going on, you know? And there are artists, I know Pretty Lights has dabbled with that when he returned and whatnot, but there are not many artists in the, I don't know, I guess bigger standard EDM space, that I think are playing a live instrument and taking the crowd on a extended solo journey kind of thing like that. Because again, I think it's another place where. Like you said earlier, taste and skill set, combined and for me, the big point of the skill set is knowing how to use the guitar to sort of just tell a story that doesn't rush to the peak. But when you get there, you're like, holy shit, how did we get here? This is so cool. And, and so I started doing it and so this tour, I've started to work that in. This was another, it was like a, like you're just talking about with Keaton. It was like a scary but bold, let's see what happens. And I had like a three plus minute solo towards the end of my set. And it starts way down. It takes it. All the way down like energetically and I'm I have the volume knob on one and I'm doing very gentle And I knew I was like, you know I believe in this and I'm gonna keep the energy down For like two minutes and it's gonna be a whole thing before it even gets up there and then bringing it back home think this is gonna work and and it's right now. It's three shows in it's my favorite moment of the night. So like To your point. Yeah, it's about Doing that being like, you know, take risks, but same with the Encephalum song, you know, it's just, but believe.

Nik:

I keep adding to this little, what's becoming almost like a little checklist of these, like what I'm calling these kind of like. Headliner mindset qualities, you know

Sam:

Yeah. What do you got?

Nik:

I think that that one just came up Recently as well where it's like just being an innovator, you

Sam:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

I think being a headliner and what this sort of definition that I'm coming up with is, is it's like, being at the forefront of the way of being the person that is an innovator, that's trying new things that put that's pushing boundaries. Cause if not your other option is like, well, I'm just going to do what's already being done. Maybe I'm going to do it a little bit differently, but I'm just going to kind of like fit myself into the box that already exists. In which case, like, well, you're never really going to be at the forefront. At the top, you know, you're always going to be one or two steps behind. And so I think that that is just a quality and a characteristic of this true kind of headliner definition is just being an innovator and being courageous to try new things and see what happens and see what works.

Sam:

And I think there probably is a space for, it's not the space I would recommend and it's not the space I ever want to be, but I think there is a small lane for people who do want to be headliners and don't want to innovate or think like that. I think it's hard to do, but I think it's more reserved for the type who's like, we're just going to schmooze our way up, have a big financial backing maybe. And just make big collabs with other relevant artists and know the talent buyers and stuff like that. And we have, I won't say names, but you'll see them at festivals, you know, and they're always there and, it's always the same kind of show they're doing each time and it's never taken risks, but it goes well for them. It's just, you have to be really lucky and you have to, a lot of them aren't even artists that are probably not listening to the podcast, you know, they're they're they're, probably like, They're probably more worried about like their portfolio and whatnot, you know,

Nik:

yeah, no, it's true. I mean, I had a good, episode with, with MacJay a little while know, he was saying, Yeah, he's I, I produced for a bunch of these fucking dudes,

Sam:

Yeah. Oh, yes.

Nik:

just the real they're just the reality it's a product that's being brought to the marketplace. Some people aren't even making their own shit and that's, it's always been that way, you but Rick Rubin is like my dream guest. I want I'm

Sam:

dude, sick.

Nik:

really wanting to just preach the message of tapping into your, Heart and soul and your highest frequency of authenticity and like bring that fucking Gift that only you can bring out of the eight billion people in the world like you are the only Sam trivecta can make what you can make so like why do Go chase what everybody else is doing. You know, like take that inward journey and pull from the fucking depths of your soul, whatever's in there, and share that shit with the world. And don't worry about if people like it or not, you know, really make it more about like your actual expression and almost like your duty to yourself bring that art forward, you

Sam:

Oh, my God. For sure. You keep your eye on that and people and that's how you'll make something that people will be drawn to. I, I even remember it. The best sort of microcosm of that was playing in the jam band and we would get really locked in. And when I tuned out the crowd and I was just listening to the guys around me and we're having a conversation with the instruments, we would get what we would call it, where you would just all be locked in and it would only last for a for a matter of seconds, you know, but, and, and you'd have it and, and, and there's nothing like it. I don't quite get it anymore now that I'm not playing in an improvisational band, but I remember what it felt like, and I remember how it goes And the moment I'd look up and like see the crowd and be like, uh, is that working? You want some more of that? Suddenly the mindset totally changes. Yeah.

Nik:

Yeah.

Sam:

Yes. So, and it's just, you're saying like, that's it. Right. Like, um, yeah.

Nik:

I'm so glad you bring that up because I was in a band and in high school many years ago and had that's how we would warm up is we would just jam. I play the and we would just like I just throw a beat down someone fucking bass player would throw the guitar player the bass player would start fucking around then it's like that. And then there would be that moment where it would just, some shit would click. It was like the muse would visit. And and I remember even having almost like an out of body experience I'm like, I'm like watching us do this from like the corner of the room. And spiritual experience of, of, Four people's energies coming together. Yeah, so I can imagine, you know, you don't really, as a producer, just on your laptop, you know, you can tap into flow, but it's different when you're tapping into other people an improvised kind of, kind of vibe. And I, just the other night. I just got that a little taste of that with like I just went to my buddy's house and we were playing the guitar and it was like he was playing a riff and then I was just kind of matching it until eventually the little Tetris pieces fit together and it just click and like we found that riff and I was just like yo like just hold that like let's just play that for 10 minutes straight because it feels so fucking

Sam:

Oh, there's nothing like

Nik:

got finally got to taste a little bit of that

Sam:

Oh, there's nothing

Nik:

I wish every, you know, artist and, and, and producer could really tap into that. Cause he has like, you don't get it when you're just like dragging samples into Ableton, you know, it's not the same.

Sam:

You don't, man. You don't.

Nik:

Yeah,

Sam:

I'm glad you got that, man. I'm glad. That's that's

Nik:

me too. Me Yeah, definitely, definitely inspired me, but, man, it's so great to connect with you. You're so I really appreciate you coming on and glad we were able to make this happen. but dude, yeah, you are killing it. I think, are you coming to Austin on your, on your tour?

Sam:

Is it concourse project? Is that is that a venue in Austin

Nik:

Concourse, that's the spot. Alright, I'm gonna have to come out and catch I wanna this three minute guitar solo.

Sam:

Hey, come on, man. Yeah, it's on me. Come on through. We got you.

Nik:

Fuck yeah. yeah, brother. Well, thanks for making the time to come through, bro.

Sam:

Thank you. Appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me.

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Nik Cherwink

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