Headliner Mindset
The Headliner Mindset podcast explores what it truly takes to succeed as an artist in the EDM industry. Through interviews with some of the biggest DJs, artists and professionals in the game, we dig into not only the business strategies for success but also how to navigate the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of the artist journey. For more info, go to www.nikcherwink.com.
Headliner Mindset
AREN GOLDBERG - What a Tour Manager Actually Does & Why Artists Need One
Aren Goldberg is a tour manager for some of the biggest artists in the dance music industry including NGHTMRE, Peekaboo, Dimension and more. In this episode we dive into the realities of life on the road, the biggest mistakes artists make when booking their first tours, and how to actually make money while touring—without blowing your budget on things you don’t need.
If you’re an artist, DJ, or producer who wants to tour one day—or if you’re already playing shows and want to level up—this episode is packed with insights that will save you time, money, and stress.
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https://www.nikcherwink.com
it's my job leading up to the show to make sure that everything that we're spending on the show, when it comes to personnel, when it comes to production, when it comes to transportation, flights, hotels, everything that's baked in, I have to make sure that those numbers. Fall within a healthy range for my artists to be profitable. If that's the goal, you know, not every time though, is a show profitable or is it meant to be,
Nik:What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. I'm so excited to share this week's episode with you because it is with not only one of the dopest tour managers. In the electronic music industry, but just one of the dopest people in the music industry in general. This is hands down, one of my favorite humans. Now, he's the tour manager for huge artists like Nightmare, peekaboo Dimension. He's been in the game for a long time, working with a lot of incredible artists, and you know, we've all been to these shows that just have these huge, insane productions. It's probably why we fell in love with electronic music in the first place, but. What does it actually take to pull that off? Who are the people that are behind the scenes that are actually making these shows happen? That's what we really dig into. It's gonna be an incredible look behind the curtain to see what does it actually take to pull these shows off. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with my good friend Aaron Goldberg. Aaron, welcome to the show, bro. I am so, so, so, so, so, so pumped to catch up with you because you are literally one of my favorite people in the fucking music industry. You're just such a, a rock solid human. And it's been a while since we've really caught up. Uh, and you have just been. Just doing such great things. I mean, I've known you for like probably a fucking decade and to just
Aren Goldberg:I think so, man.
Nik:and what you're doing now. Like we got a lot to catch up on and a lot of cool stuff to share with everybody. So thank you so much for being here, bro.
Aren Goldberg:Thank you so much for having me. It's so good to properly catch up. You know, I, I'm really stoked to be, be a part of this. I've always really appreciated our friendship and all the cool things we've done over the, as you said, the past decade. It's wild to think that it's been a full decade now.
Nik:I mean, probably, it's probably been about that long. I mean, we knew each other from back in the day when I was working at icon collective music production school in LA, you were working with the, the white rabbit group crew that was throwing parties in orange County.
Aren Goldberg:Yep.
Nik:And now you're out like touring the world as a tour manager with some of the biggest artists in the fucking world. So, that's pretty rad. I'd love to hear like just a little bit about your story. You know, you came from being a promoter working on like throwing shows. How did you end up actually going out on the road with artists and becoming a tour manager? How did that happen?
Aren Goldberg:Man, it's crazy. It's kind of two pronged. So granted, you know, we did meet through the ghost and white rabbit group, you know, back in the day I in tandem also was in school, I was going to, I was, I went to Cal state Fullerton. Uh, I had a full load of classes, but also on top of that, it was, it was nuts. I don't know how I did it. And I guess that kind of, it kind of trickles down into what I'm doing now. It's like, I've always got my hands in so many things. It never changed. It's, it was always that way. But on top of those two things. I had a really incredible, internship slash, it, it, it kind of evolved into a bigger role, with this, record label and clothing brand called Twonk that I was a part of through, um, with Brills, yeah, Brills, uh, who is now Ellis Dream, uh, and is also an incredible, incredible project in that self, but, uh, Thanks to Sammy Brills and another incredible mentor that I've had over many, many years named Oz, you know, us three, we, built something very special and I was very, very thankful to be a part of it from a young age, pretty much right out of high school. I threw, threw myself out there. I, I took a shot in the dark and. Didn't really know what I was asking for, so to speak, but they kind of taught me the ropes of how the music business was like really early on. So I got my kind of kick with, with merchandise really, really early on. And that's actually how I got connected really close with White Rabbit and the Yost just from my involvement through that. a lot of the artists they were booking. I actually happened to go to Icon and a lot of the people who went to Icon ended up playing at the Yoast through White Rabbit Group. And then it was just kind of this big web of connection and sure enough the pieces connected and eventually I wanted to branch out from merch. And I, I kind of just let, let the wind take me to where I needed to go. I didn't really know what the job tour manager was at first. I'd say my first real opportunity came around 2014. Uh, doing some local stuff. I had a, really another, I had another amazing mentor named Corey Enomy, who was, part of the TWONK group for quite some time, but, Corey gave me some of my very first opportunities, back then, and I, I can't thank him enough for that, and the floodgates opened from there. So, it's been, it's been quite a stint.
Nik:Yeah, yeah. I wanna pick one piece out of that story where you said you just threw yourself out there in terms of getting connected. Because I'm, I'm a big fan of shooting your shot, and
Aren Goldberg:Me too.
Nik:it sounds, it sounds like that was one of those moments of just fucking shooting your shot and, and getting the opportunity. Tell me a little bit more about, like, about that moment, because I think it's so important and such a big part of, like, most people's stories that I talk to. Um,
Aren Goldberg:what I did. It was complete accident. Most of my life I was gearing towards playing some sort of semi professional ice hockey. That was pretty much I didn't. I had no shot of making it to the NHL. My chance was lost. Well into my journey into the project or, or into my, into my process of wanting to play professionally. But it's all right. I, I wanted to still go off. I, I, I was, uh, into the world and try to play to some high level or make my way into sports to some degree. but pretty much my senior year of high school, I was in the process of talking to some team in Ontario, Canada, and playing right after high school, but I actually got injured in my. In, in one of my games that I was playing and I lost my opportunity to go to the scout combine for, for that team to make the team. So pretty much everything I had been building myself up towards was like lost. At that point, I kind of felt like a lost cause. Didn't really know what else to do. I went into kind of a depression for, for probably three or four months, I would say. And then I had to really think I had to look inward and really think about it and just be like, all right, what else do I like in life? What else do I like doing? Something I always have loved doing is making mixtapes for people. Like, listening to music, finding new music, that's always been a really big part of my identity and who I am. You know, someone called a love language, so to speak. You know, if I really care about someone, I'm gonna make them a mixtape, you know? so I was like, okay, wait, music's kind of cool. Let me think about this. And, sure enough, what, uh, Brills was doing and, and when Twonk kind of formulated into what it was, the mission statement behind it really resonated with me. Uh, so a lightbulb went off in my head literally in the middle of the night one night, and I literally just sent a message and was like, Hey, I'm this kid from Cupertino, California. Uh, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I like what you're doing. Uh, if you ever need help with anything, I don't know what to ask for, but let me know. And sure enough, a couple weeks later, I heard back and, literally two weeks after, after high school, after I graduated, I moved down to Southern California. And. The rest is history. I got really lucky.
Nik:Dude, it's, it's, I just want to highlight that part of the story, because it's so fucking important. It's like, Just shooting your shot, creating your own opportunities, putting yourself out there. It's like you never know. And I truly think that the universe rewards you when it sees you being courageous. You know, a lot of times we're kind of like waiting for things to happen and it's
Aren Goldberg:Yep.
Nik:you gotta, you gotta put yourself out there. You got to put yourself, you know, go out on a limb and take those chances sometimes. Because, you know, a big part of my story, I mean, literally like how I got hired at Capitol Records in the first place, but how I got specifically into the like EDM industry, was, you know, when I was working at Capitol Records and I was looking at what was happening across the street at Avalon and the whole, like, Dance music wave was just coming. It's like 2009, 2010 before shit was like what it was. And I knew three managers of DJs. It was, I think, um, shit. Who was it? Uh, one of them, well, one of them was David Guetta's manager. And I think it was Morgan Page's manager and then this trance DJ, uh, Christopher, what the fuck's his last name? Christopher something. Um, but anyways, I, I was like, okay, I know three people in the industry and I want to, I knew, I was like, I want to get into this world. This world is exciting. Like I want to like, I want to be a part of this like dance music thing that's happening and I know three people. So I just sent three emails and it was the same thing. I was like, Hey, like, I just, I just want to get involved. Like I just want to fucking get in, you know, and. David Guetta's manager was the one that hit me back. She's like, Hey, I think I might have something for you. And that just opened up, you know, the doors for me. But you know, how many, how many times are we not sending that fucking email? Like that one message, that one DM. And I, and I, and I'm preaching this to my clients all the time where it's, you know, it's like, you just need that one artist to start playing your fucking song. a lot of you all are too scared to send the fucking DM.
Aren Goldberg:Oh man.
Nik:if I, I don't want to seem annoying or like, you know, what if they, you know, like, it's like, there's all this, this fear of what people are going to think about you if you reach out. And it's like, if that fear, that fear might be holding you back from the one life changing opportunity,
Aren Goldberg:A hundred percent.
Nik:launch your fucking career, dude.
Aren Goldberg:A hundred percent.
Nik:Yeah. So just to, I'll get off my soapbox, but like, if you're, if you're waiting to see. Whether that's like, talking to the hot girl across the bar, or that's sending a DM to your favorite, you know, that might be your future wife. Like,
Aren Goldberg:Could be. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, I have so many of my closest friends and colleagues who, are so afraid to take those chances and those leaps, but And admittedly for me too, I was a bit timid, when I was younger, I actually this was a huge step outside of my comfort zone doing something like that. I thought I was gonna get rejected. I mean, I, you know, everyone fears, you shoot your shot like that, like you don't do it because you're worried about the negative, but You won't know unless you try. My favorite quote of all time, as cheesy as it is, but it's not at all. I live by it every day. Wayne Gretzky, you miss a hundred percent of it. You miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. And I live by that very strongly. Ever since that happened, my life has changed for the better ever since I took that leap. I mean, I met you because of it, you know, I met amazing people like yourself.
Nik:people. Hundreds
Aren Goldberg:of other people. Yeah. Literally, if I didn't make that shot wouldn't have happened,
Nik:It's crazy, man.
Aren Goldberg:So
Nik:love it. So anyone, anyone that's sitting there, anyone that's, that's teetering, you know, like, just, just, just do it. Just to, just to steal another, another famous quote, just do it.
Aren Goldberg:just do it.
Nik:now, alright, I want to really get into tour, being a tour manager. What do you actually do? Let's break that down. This is an important member of the team that at some point people are probably going to want to have, but like, let's clarify what it, what is it exactly that you do as a tour manager?
Aren Goldberg:It depends on there. There's a number of variables. If we're talking, just in my concentration within electronic music, the term tour manager kind of stretches a bit, and I'll get into that a bit further down the line, but the general sense of what a tour manager is in summary is. This is the person who is responsible for an artist's shows, like performances, performances, appearances, anywhere in the world. They're in charge of all logistics. to the show and the team that surrounds that artist. So let's say for example, I have a show at the Hollywood Palladium in Los Angeles. I am in charge of building the schedule for the show. I'm in charge of coordinating the team that comes to execute the show for the artist. Like I have to manage a team of five different people, all the different positions that run the lights, the video, the sound, If there's any SFX managing those types of people, this is on top of managing the artists and managing all the extra people that come alongside the artists that aren't necessarily part of the core tour core touring crew. So, you know, what could be five people that are actually running the show. I could end up looking after 15, you know, whether that extends out to the photographers, the videographers, the managers that come alongside the partners, the family, I look after all those people when it comes pertains to this one show. You know, um, If, if we're bringing in a production manager. You know, to, to run the show. Generally speaking, tour managers don't really oversee the production side of things, all the non technical things that the tour manager looks after, like making sure the dressing rooms are stocked with the correct items, food, drinks, miscellaneous items. I look after that. I'm also overseeing the budgets for the show. When there are bigger tours, if you're going on a bigger tour, sometimes you have what's called a tour accountant and that person will look over the numbers, uh, and, and it kind of, uh, shifts the duty a bit onto another person dedicated specifically for that. But on smaller tours where you don't necessarily have an accountant, that responsibility falls generally on the tour manager to look over that kind of thing.
Nik:What's that budget consist of?
Aren Goldberg:When an artist gets booked, basically, they're given a guaranteed amount of money. They're given a certain dollar amount, and maybe in the contract, it's considered what's called a flat deal. Like you don't get any additional provisions on the show. Like, and what I mean by additional provisions, sometimes when, when an artist is booked, a promoter can agree with the artist agent, the booking agent that books the show, they can say, okay, we'll give you, throwing out a random number, we'll give you 10, 000 to play this show, but if you are able to sell tickets worth 90 percent of the show's capacity, so like, if you can sell 90 percent of your tickets, after that point, we'll give you an additional 5, 000, so if you can sell Almost if you can get almost to a sellout, we'll give you 5, 000 extra or sometimes they're like, Hey, if you sell the show, we're going to give you double the amount of money or something like that, you know? So I have to then take that max amount of number, calculate that, versus the amount of expenses that the tour incurs paying for the crew salaries, paying whatever the additional production elements would come into the show. Like if we want to bring in, like, let's say like, for example, at the Palladium, they have a bunch of lights already in house. A lot of the times they'll also have a video wall that's already in there. But hey, let's say that my guy wants to bring in 10 to 20 more lights for whatever reason. The promoter's not paying for that. It's going to come out of our pocket. Right. Because we want to do something extra. So whatever the cost of that is, I now have to put that into a line and subtract that from the total amount. And then that calculates how much we're earning for the show. So I have to kind of see what the gross income looks like, what the net income looks like. And of course, managers, agents. They all take a commission off of the show. So there's, there's percentages that you have to calculate also. So it's my job leading up to the show to make sure that everything that we're spending on the show, when it comes to personnel, when it comes to production, when it comes to transportation, flights, hotels, everything that's baked in, I have to make sure that those numbers. Fall within a healthy range for my artists to be profitable. If that's the goal, you know, not every time though, is a show profitable or is it meant to be,
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aren Goldberg:but these, these are, these are things I have to consider.
Nik:I like that you just said, if it's meant to be, you know, cause that was a really good conversation I had with Ben Hogan, really, honestly, it's the number one performing podcast episode that I've put out so far. Ben Hogan is a, is a booking agent for UTA. Has worked with some of the biggest artists in the dance music industry from Marshmello jaws Probably a lot of guys that you've worked with i'm sure you've tm'd for some, you know Some good guys on on their roster, but that's the point that he made, specifically talking about excision was one of the examples or even sudden death, but it's like They know going into the tour that they're like, yo, we're gonna, that 10, 000 or that 20, 000, we're basically going to spend the whole thing on all this really cool, extra shit. Um, you know, slanders talk to me about this as well, where it's like, yo, we're going to spend that on making the show so fucking dope. Right? And maybe this year, we're We're not really making money off of that tour, but we're building such a massive fan base because of how sick our shows are that the year after and the year after that where we're really starting to make some real money or we're now we're starting to make a lot of money off of merch. We're starting to make money in these other areas because we're invest, we're investing so much in our shows, whereas other artists aren't necessarily doing that. They're trying to be like, Hey, how can we come away with the most money from this tour? And they're just not, they're not bringing in those extra lasers and all that extra shit. Right.
Aren Goldberg:Exactly. So yeah, I mean, looking over the financials is honestly such a very critical, it's a very critical part of my job. Aside from that too, some other small things that kind of come together. Anytime there's a meet and greet involved or any sort of V. A. P. program that comes along with the show, I'm in charge of coordinating that whole thing. along with our promoters and management team, but I help oversee to make sure that falls within the proper schedule of our show. so yeah, in essence, anything non technical, anything non production related to the show. Generally falls under my shoulders, but I oversee in a nutshell every aspect of a live performance for an artist and that's from start to finish I mean i'm not i'm honestly not done working on a show sometimes even for a week past the show's completion date all while still doing whatever show I'm actively on. So, it, it can, it, it can be pretty hefty.
Nik:Yeah. When you say you're not done, like, what do you find yourself still working on? The show's over, but you say you're still even working on that show afterwards. What are you working on exactly?
Aren Goldberg:Most of the time it's settlement for the show. And again, that kind of falls back onto the financial side of things. Making sure that we're going to earn exactly the amount of money that we're supposed to. Cause, in, in essence, if, we're making less money for some reason,, on the show than we were estimating, then I need to make an adjustment on, Sometimes even who I can bring to a future show or production elements that I work on with a production manager. If I am working with one, if I can even bring some of these things into the fold for future shows. So
Nik:Yeah.
Aren Goldberg:generally speaking, it takes time to look at all the pieces that were invested into a show. And you could work on things all the way up to a week after.
Nik:I say, yeah. So even in the middle of the tour, you might be looking at like, Hey, we, maybe we didn't make as much money on that last show. We thought we were going to now, maybe we need to be cutting something from this future show or maybe not bring in all the lasers that we were going to. I don't know why I'm just, I'm feeling very infatuated with the lasers right now. I'm curious about if somebody wants to bring in extra production. are they. Renting that like let's say you have that ten thousand dollar budget and you're like, hey, you know what? I want to bring in an extra, you know Some extra production here Would you source that from the city that you're going to or would that potentially be something that you bring? You like bring with you all on the tour I guess that would probably wouldn't make sense if you're doing fly ins that would only make sense on like a bus tour But like how does that work with like bringing an extra production?
Aren Goldberg:It's a great question. Uh, there's multiple ways to go about it. You know, again, this kind of job does generally fall under a production manager's purview look to source this kind of thing, but not every tour in electronic music anyway, is, uh, you know, they're not, they're not profiting enough, or sometimes the shows don't make it enough sense to bring on a formal production manager. So in a lot of the times, there is a kind of a gray area where the tour manager sometimes does have production manager responsibilities. Now, when it comes to bringing in the gear, a lot of the time you want to find local production. You want to find the gear that's based in that city. Cause a lot of the time you have to worry about trucking costs, flying them in from other places that adds to the pile, what could be, a 2, 000 rental then becomes 2, 900 because. You had to ship them from somewhere else versus having them delivered locally. The promoters generally are not responsible for providing them unless it's written, unless it's agreed upon and written in the contract. That's how that's, drafted well in advance to you even getting to the show. So generally speaking, you should know when you're advancing the show, in the timeframe that you should be. to do that, you should already know at that point who's responsible for bringing those in if it's contracted to do so.
Nik:yeah.
Aren Goldberg:but generally speaking, if even if you're on a fly day, it's totally normal to bring in lasers. most major markets will have some sort of vendor that has inventory. It just all really depends on the time of the year. It depends on how many you're trying to get. What there's so many things that go into it, you know,
Nik:Mm.
Aren Goldberg:come with them? Do you just want the units? Like, do you want them to be 10 Watts versus 30 Watts? Like there's so many different types of things that go, go into it. Generally speaking though, laser vendors, I try, at least for me, my own personal opinion is I try to stick with, the people that I care about the most. Relationships are everything to me in this business. even if I'm in New York, for example, I might still want to work with my vendor that's based in, based on the West coast, because they'll always give me a good deal for what I'm looking for. sometimes prices are inflated per city. They're not going to always cost the same anywhere you go. So you, there's so many different factors that go into it. Uh, but. You know, if you get, if you get the lucky instance of having the promoter cover it, fantastic. You just show up, flash and smash, you're out. Otherwise, you kind of have to do a little bit of digging and research to find the best, uh, best price for, for your situation.
Nik:Yeah, cool. Yeah, it is such an elevated level, I think, from a lot, what a lot of Younger music producers and DJs think the game is about is like, Oh, I'm just, I just hop on a flight and I fly to the show and I show up and I plug my USB in and I play and then I'm, and I don't. And at a certain level that is true, like
Aren Goldberg:Yeah.
Nik:in the beginning, but like once you start getting to that, that real next level, you know, real like headliner level, it's like, okay, cool. No, we're, we're throwing fucking shows
Aren Goldberg:Yeah,
Nik:right. It's a
Aren Goldberg:that's right.
Nik:it's a different, it's just a different tier to reach. Right. Um,
Aren Goldberg:Yes.
Nik:are you? Who are you dialoguing with on a regular basis? Is it the manager and the booking agent? Is the artist pretty involved? Like who are you actually like really in a conversation with on, on a daily basis to pull all of this off?
Aren Goldberg:I'd say it's about the way that I am structured. Everyone's situation, again, is very unique to their, to their own situation. But for me, the way that it's. That it's done just to make sure I'm being a good partner across everything. Generally speaking, it's about, 60 percent with the management team, 40 percent with the artist, or I should say, sorry, let me, let me rephrase 60 percent with the management team, 30 percent with the artist, 10 percent with the agent.
Nik:Okay.
Aren Goldberg:That's about my spread of how I communicate. I find myself. On a daily basis, always in touch with the management team. the artists, if I need something specifically approved at the end of the day, it's their decision. It's their project. They're the boss, you know, both, both the management company and myself, even though I'm separate, I'm a separate entity from the management companies that work with those artists, but we work together to deliver the same product.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah.
Aren Goldberg:uh, generally speaking, I'm finding myself talking to the management team more because we're in the, we're in the trenches getting a lot of the hard work and all the hard pieces of the shows put together daily. And then the artists, you know, that we give them the space to go create and, you know, continue evolving, the music, the art direction, the, just the general overall brand, you know, they're, they're the ones ideating a lot of that stuff. So. I don't want to always, bug them with, you know, the minute details of the shows, unless they want it. Unless they want it, then I'll give it to them.
Nik:With the Excel spreadsheets of 30 watt lasers.
Aren Goldberg:They don't need to see that all the time, you know? Yeah, exactly.
Nik:who are you working with these days?
Aren Goldberg:It's kind of, it's exciting. I mean, I've had quite a wide range of clients over the past, 12 years. It's pretty, pretty crazy to think about now at this point. But right now I have, I think I have six active right now is the way, the way it's looking, which is great. I started my own little touring collective a few years ago. So it's me and I have, three other fantastic partners, that I've found and collaborated with over the years. And now we have our own little pocket of, of a little touring community that we now, we were a one stop shop in service to Many different artists all around the world right now. My main clients are Nightmare who is you mentioned Ben Hogan? He's a Ben Hogan client right there But nightmares my primary client. I've been with him now for three years, which is amazing I do peekaboo and again that three years with him, which is amazing, too North America only. I am doing Dimension, Subfocus, and Wilkinson. It's a new one as of recent. But I'm only doing North America, Logistics and Touring for those three. And then I am what's, I am the tour director for side piece house music at project. what that entails is I don't normally go out on the road with them. I have other people that go out for him, but I handle all the logistics overall. So there is another tour manager that goes out for me, but I still oversee and handle all the logistics and I make the playbook. I, I,
Nik:you have minions now that you just send out to do your work for you while you get to kick back at the office and, have a nice little, you know, not a little night in. I see.
Aren Goldberg:I, I, I would never want to call them minions, you know, they're, they're, but, but, um, they, no, no,
Nik:badass fucking road warriors.
Aren Goldberg:they're, they're incredible road warriors themselves too, but I'm very thankful to have them in the mix. but yeah, that, that's the spread right now it's incredible and surprisingly enough. Uh, it does sound like a lot. It is a lot, but I still have a life. I still find a way to make it all work.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's, let's talk about that because, just before we were getting on, were talking about how you just came off of, a run of shows and are just catching up energetically, from life on the road and from, from the physical demands of that. and I think that's a very, uh, Just a very real thing. You know, we've talked about that a lot on the shows, especially with like the heavier touring artists. How, how do you maintain your physical health and energy when you're, you know, on this like wild touring schedule?
Aren Goldberg:I will tell you it's very difficult. I mean, everyone's different. Again, I keep saying that, but, you know, that, that is the reality of it. It is a work in progress for me, and I'm, I'll be the first to admit that I'm trying very hard to find a balance. It's been one of my biggest things that I've been working towards over the past year. as of right now, you know, I'm just trying to prioritize getting rest at home. When you're home during the week, You know, that's the time where you're not having to leave a show at two or three in the morning and then have to get to the airport by like 6 30 to catch an 8 a. m. flight. You know, I'm, I'm not, this is the time where I'm not running myself absolutely just to the, to the bone. I'm not running myself dry here, you know, and I'm, this, this is time where I actually can regulate my bedtime and I can regulate what I'm eating. It's very hard to eat on the road because a lot of times you're in, you're in transit, you don't have time to think about it. you could have situations pop up left and right, you know, but the second you have a moment to breathe, something else pops up, you gotta go run away, and then you blink, and it's two hours later, and you've missed your window to eat, you know, I think the biggest thing for myself during, during, uh, this time is, Monday through Thursday, I have to stick to a routine. And if I don't, I'm going to burn out and I've done it. I've run into situations over the past five years where, especially after COVID happened, you have to the pandemic, the landscape changed of like, just really taking care of yourself. You know, if you don't, if you don't take the time to, really like, strengthen your immune system and your physical health, then you're not doing things that just. Generally promote a healthy lifestyle and a healthy regimen ahead of time. You're just not going to be strong enough to go out on the road. You know, if you get sick on the road and you can't go do these shows you're not getting money You can't get paid if you don't get paid. You can't live, you know, you gotta you gotta give yourself that insurance During the week and you just have to stick to the schedule. It's pretty much black and white at this point. You know, if you're not doing what you need to do during the week to take care of yourself, you're just in for a bad time.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. That was a big thing that I worked with Sippy on. She was the first, client that I had that was like mid headlining tour and had me in her corner, you know, just specifically as a life coach mindset coach. And that was the big thing that I remember telling her in the beginning. I was like, yo, like you're, you're fucking F one car, right? Or like you get to decide what kind of car you are. Like you're, you're in the race, right? Right. Do you want to be a Honda Civic and do you want to treat yourself like that? Are you going to like get no sleep and just be putting fucking junk in your body and not only physical energy, but like your mental energy, emotional energy, spiritual energy. You know, we are, we have to take care of the vessel and it's like, Treat yourself like an F1 car. That was the theme that we really ran with. And it was like, all right, how do I keep my, my mindset really fucking sharp? She's coming back and doing, you know, red light therapy and hitting the gym and being like, okay, cool. We're, we're going to take care of the body really good. Because we're back on the road on Thursday and we're going to be out till four in the morning, every night. And, and when I come back, I also have to be creative, right? I also got to come back and now I got, now I'd still need to make music Monday through Wednesday and have some fucking energy for that. So like so much of our work was just like, get fucking dialed in because that lifestyle is fast and you're running a fucking F1 race, you know?
Aren Goldberg:Yeah, no kidding
Nik:you want to, not only, not only if you want to survive, but if you want a fucking podium and you want to win, you got to treat yourself like that. All right.
Aren Goldberg:100%. I mean, it's it is just at this point as you get older doesn't get easier either. You know, I'm 30 right now. I'm turning 31 this year. I'm very, very fortunate to have the position that I do at this age. I have colleagues that are tour managers, you know, younger than me, older than me, but a lot of the people I learned from are older than me, you know, and they've all told me the same thing. It's pretty much just take care of yourself. The older you get, the harder it is to recover, you know, but if you're in good shape and you can, and you can really do what you can to mitigate those long nights, during the week, you know, and not have to feel like you're playing catch up for two to three days. It's all the work you do right now,
Nik:Yeah.
Aren Goldberg:you know,
Nik:Yeah. And I share that same sentiment for artists that aren't even touring yet. It's like, don't wait till you start touring to put the habit, the healthy habits in place. Get those healthy habits dialed in now, right? start really taking care of your vessel, right? Your mind, your body, and your spirit. Start like really priming that now so that when you do go on the road, like you're ready for it. Right.
Aren Goldberg:a hundred percent,
Nik:if you're, you're about to blow the fuck up and be the biggest internationally touring DJ in the, in the world. Right.
Aren Goldberg:a hundred percent.
Nik:and, and when that time comes, you're going to be ready for it because we do see it sometimes too, where it's like, people aren't ready for it. and it's a real bitch slap to the face with like, Oh, wow. Like this is actually hard. And, you know, we see it all the time with artists. That's like, yeah, you can. Kind of party your way through it for a little while and be like, all right, let's just, let's just kind of, you know, use that social lubricant and all of that, but it's going to catch up with you. It doesn't last very long for anybody.
Aren Goldberg:No, it does not. It does not. The other best way to mitigate, you know, even when you're on the road on the weekends, it doesn't have to just stop during the week on the weekends. You know, if you get to a point where you're able to ask for a hospitality writer, that's substantial, you know, opting out of, sweets or, unhealthy food and, and adding in like a veggie tray or a fruit tray, or cold press juice, you know, like thankfully I'm working with people now that care About their well being so it doesn't have to just end during the week, you know Like I said, it's so hard to eat when you're on the road So if you can request healthy snacks or meals when you're at the venues absolutely take advantage of that.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. Now I can, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes of. Managing so much stuff. It sounds honestly stressful as fuck. I don't think I would be cut out for it. I am not the most like organized logistical person. You have to have the energetic capacity to hold a lot, not only with all the, you know, the logistics and the spreadsheets and the finances, but also all of the people and the relationships. And you know, I've, I've been on the road. I was a manager. I did a little, you know, a little, we'd go out with the artists every now and then a little bit of tour managing. Yeah, there's a lot of personality. There can be a lot of ego. There can be a lot of unforeseen things that just pop up fires to put out. Right. it can be fucking stressful. How do you handle the stress?
Aren Goldberg:It's a great question I think the best way To do it The stress is always have a plan always have a backup plan always think about Like, and, and something, I don't think everyone's built the same way when it comes with knowing how to manage expectations or managing personalities or figuring that out, because at the end of the day to another unwritten job title that does come up with tour managers is you're kind of almost in a sense, you're kind of like an adult babysitter in some way, at least with least, at least in electronic music, I can say that other genres, not so much, you know, it's pretty black and white with, with responsibility. And there's less tolerance for a lot of this stuff, but at least in our industry. How it's evolved over time, you know, like within the electronic space, I find myself having to manage, uh, people's, you know, feelings a lot of the time too, because ultimately someone doesn't feel good, they're just going to quit and then I have to go find someone else and in these days too, it's hard to find good people to do a lot of these jobs. There is a, there are a lot of very qualified operators and technicians all across the U S all across the world. But. To get someone so specific for your specific artist and team, you know, you gotta really be lucky to find that one person. I'm very fortunate to find those people. But what comes with it though, um, you know, for me, managing stress specifically, I just have very specific timelines for managing my own expectation. Like, I can only withstand something for so long before I have to keep moving. On a certain thing. And I have to, I I'm always faced with split second decisions. it is very situational, but a lot of the time, if something's not moving quick enough, I have to know how to pivot or make the best decision. Even if it's not a good one, I have to know how to make the best decision to minimize the impact to the artist
Nik:Yeah.
Aren Goldberg:team as a whole, or in general, at the end, like for, for me. when I need to just like to have an escape from all the shit that's happening, I usually bring a second monitor with me. most venues will have this too. Uh, they'll have like a production office or a touring or, or tour office that's separate from the green room. I'll usually set myself up in one of these quiet rooms. So if I need a place to just escape from the madness, I have a place to go and I'll set up my second monitor and I'll watch some hockey and that's what I do, you know, and, and even if I can't sit and watch it for too long, I'll sit down, I'll take 10, 15 minutes, open up my laptop, I'll have my work on my main computer and then off to the side on my other monitor, I have a hockey game and it just brings me down and that's how I manage mine and once I get like a little bit of a, an escape from, from what I'm dealing with. Cause it's such high intensity, sensory overload at a lot of these events. You know, I need something that is familiar and calming to me. So that is what I do in those instances, especially again, when it comes to dealing with, let's say the crew's tired and everyone's, everyone's tired and feeling beat up and you know, tensions are high. It doesn't happen all the time. Thankfully with the teams I'm on, I work with some pretty incredible people. I'm very fortunate. But, you know, if you need a little escape, it's good to have a backup plan or a place you can go retreat to for a few just to reset. But I try really hard to not let myself get too reactive to a situation. I like to take a, take a moment, take a deep breath, take a step back, look at everything from the top down and make a decision from there. But it took a long time for me to get to that point. I've trudged through the mud. I've been in situations early on in my career where I can't necessarily do that right then and there, but, I'm very fortunate that I, I learned some pretty good stress management techniques from a very young age, and I just applied it to where I'm at now.
Nik:Yeah, you've put, you've put some miles in, you've put some miles in. It definitely sounds like something that, that comes with just time and experience, but yeah, I love that suggestion of having kind of a safe space that you can turn to just to get, get out of the madness. I mean, that's actually something I even worked with Sipion as well, where as an artist. You're in the green room and everybody's in there and it's a big party, but sometimes that's not the best headspace for an artist to be in.
Aren Goldberg:Oh,
Nik:that was something that like I had her start doing, it's like, Hey, step outside and like, you know, like go out and find a little corner to just like get calm and get
Aren Goldberg:exactly.
Nik:so that when you go on stage, you're not just going from like one second, you know, having a conversation with somebody who's like, have a little, a little five minute window to like, Prepare yourself for delivering the best set possible. so, you know, we, we started creating that for her as well. which, you know, was really, really effective for sure.
Aren Goldberg:I think having that breathing room is so critical, you know, taking 5 to 10 minutes for yourself. It's not going to change the show. If you're not there for 5 to 10 minutes, you know. Yeah,
Nik:You know, we were just talking about this before we started recording, but there is that very, very true reality about the heightened dopamine serotonin release, the wild show, you know, the, the explosion of energy that you experience playing the show, and then for a lot of people, it's like, okay, well now you're either back at, The hotel by yourself that night and you just went from playing in front of thousands of people to now being completely alone or the weekend's over and now, you know, one minute you're the fucking king of the world on stage or the queen of the world on stage and everybody is chanting your name. And now you're back in your apartment on Tuesday, taking out the fucking trash by yourself. And it can be a bit of a head fuck right that that roller coaster. What's that experience like for you, and how do you find yourself, navigating the highs and the lows of being on the road and, and being off? Yeah,
Aren Goldberg:know, I mean you said it perfectly you could be in this incredible environment come off an amazing show. You just worked 18 to 20 hours putting this spectacle together. Energy's high, artists are happy, everyone's cheering, screaming, the sound of the crowd, the team coming together at the end of the show, be like, that was amazing, I can't wait for it, like, just the, just the thrill of traveling, you know, and all the pieces that come together with that, it brings you to such a heightened sense of, self, you know, when you're, when you're doing that. And so to come back after being in such a high energy environment to just a baseline, It's just quiet and there's nothing happening around you and it's just you and you can just hear the wind or whatnot. Going from 100 to 0 is very jarring sometimes, thankfully for me from such a young age, you know, I've been able to adapt to any environment just from what I'm used to. But for me, I usually take Monday to be by myself to come down from everything. Tuesday I'll go out and try to see someone or like go out to dinner with somebody to let a little bit out of my, of my energy level again from what I, what I've had written over from the weekend. And then Wednesday and Thursday I'll usually lock back into the work and prep for the weekend again. But having something to look forward to and like some sort of hobby. You know, this is such a general, recommendation that I'm sure a lot of people have, like, you know, having something at home to look forward to kind of just helps you keep the momentum of the energy that you're experiencing. And it helps you just place it into something a little bit more tangible and easy to digest. Because I think constantly being on the road and constantly touring can definitely mess with you. But coming off such a high energy activity and then bringing it into a different vertical or whole different activity, I think is extremely healthy, I think that that's what keeps you from, you know, getting too depressed or feeling like you're missing out on a big dopamine hit. You know, you can take that energy and put into something else. That's also exciting in your life.
Nik:totally. Yeah. It sounds like you kind of have your weekends on Monday and Tuesday. So still having a little bit of a weekend for yourself, right? Like you're working, you're in full work mode during the kind of normal person's weekend. So you get to have a little bit of space, a little bit of recovery for you, like most people do. And, and I think that piece of having, some real life, Hobby or just something to, put your time and your energy into that. I'd say for artists also, isn't music production, isn't just getting back in the DAW and working on music. And, you know, maybe some people are just obsessed with it and addicted to it. And, and that's great if that's what they want to do. But I really, really advocate that for people as well, you know, artists specifically. It's like, yeah, I got to, you know, go play fucking pickleball or go skateboarding and just do something that's going to actually get you, you know, just to go be a normal person for even one day out of the week. Cause you're
Aren Goldberg:Exactly.
Nik:the other fucking six days, you know, you're not
Aren Goldberg:No,
Nik:life,
Aren Goldberg:no.
Nik:bit of like normalcy in there, I think can go a long way.
Aren Goldberg:I think so too. I mean, literally sense of community and friends or everything. I mean, for me, like, I'm just a naturally extroverted person. You know, I think over time I've digressed a bit on that just because I'm always around people constantly. I do value my alone time, but I also do, I kind of teeter, I teeter the line these days, some people might just want to be alone for a whole week before going back out and that's fine for me, paying mind to your friendships and, and your family. Or loved ones, finding time to balance that and having those things to look forward to will only, help strengthen your mind to be sharper when you're going out on a show, when those things are also intact. Because it's very, very easy when the further you get down to the space and the more you do, progress in your career in music or entertainment as a whole, it's really easy for your personal life to kind of take the back burner. Speaking from experience, I've lost many friends, relationships. I've tarnished relationships with my own family, just from doing this job and, you know, making sure that you, pay attention to the, to those things as well. And you're, you're putting as much energy. Into that side of your life on top of your professional life is extremely important and something honestly I wish I did more of as I was growing in this space, but, uh, I don't regret anything. I, I'm very happy with where I'm at now. It took a long time to get, To where I'm at now, but I think more than ever, the balance is just so, so important now that I feel like I'm at a place where, I'm sustaining a living because of it, you know,
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. I was literally just talking to my girlfriend about this earlier today where like, you can't pour from an empty cup and you really have to make sure that your own cup is full. You really have to make sure that you're good, especially when you are the artist, you are the entire business. You're the one that's creating the music. You're the one that's getting on the plane and flying. It's like you really have to prioritize your own fulfillment, your own happiness, your own health. If you're pouring so much out at some point, you're going to become tapped and it is those things like having a healthy relationship with your family, having a good relationship with your friends, taking care of your body, having some activities that just bring you joy that aren't just work. That's the stuff that fills our cup. and it's so easy to lose sight of that though. It's so easy to, you know, just be so focused on the goal. but yeah, at some point, you know, at some point the, the well is going to run dry and there's not going to be a lot to, to really pull from, you know? So yeah, really, really, really good advice.
Aren Goldberg:Again, it kind of plays back into the whole thing of like, as you keep getting older too, it's harder to maintain. Everyone in your personal life gets busy, you know, making friends can also sometimes be a harder thing for some people, you know, as you get older, especially if you travel so much, you know, people aren't going to know when you're available or free, so you kind of have to go take the extra step to really go foster those relationships when you're back home in the short amount of time you have, you know, and I know sometimes a lot of people are really tired after they've just traveled for two to three days, you know, you're coming back from an international trip or you're coming back from two days of no sleep and all you want to do is just relax and you know, it's good to, it's important to do that, but you know, Also make sure, again, that plays into the part of, if you take care of yourself during the week, those recovery times, you know, are going to be minimized so you can go back out and, uh, really nurture and, foster those relationships that are important to you as well.
Nik:yeah, for sure. You know, so you, you've been in the industry for a long time. I've been in the industry for a long time. I'll speak for myself. I definitely, I think after going to so many shows and being at so many festivals and it's like for sure in the beginning of the, of my career, it was like, Oh my God, this is so rad. Like getting to go to backstage at all these shows and all of it. at some point for me, it was also kind of like, damn, like, all right, I've kind of seen this and I've done this for a minute and it doesn't definitely like lost the allure and became work, you know, like the, the, the dream and the thing that was like the fucking passion. It does, it does become work after a while. I think certain, you know, I think artists run into this too. It's like, that's the dream is the tour. And at some point it's like that it's kind of the day job, you know, do you feel like you've hit those phases as well, where it's like, all right, this is. more work than, play, I guess. What's your experience been with that?
Aren Goldberg:Yes, the short answer is yes, it has for me, but there's a way for me to keep my spark. I honestly think that, At the end of the day, everyone loves this, Loves what they're doing. You know, if they do to some degree and if they don't admit it to you, they're lying to you. Because if they don't want, if they don't like what they're doing, they wouldn't be here and they'd think they'd go pursue something else at this point. You know?
Nik:Mm
Aren Goldberg:The veils lifted per se at some point, what was once a very exciting opportunity to be backstage or see everything from the front, looking out, at one point that was super exciting and literally filled my cup more than anything else could, you know, and now it is, it is a job to me. It is that, however, with electronic music specifically, I. I love it. Flat out. I mean, I've been involved in this community from a very young age. I was pirating music when I was in elementary school. I was sneaking into raves when I was in middle school and high school. I mean, it has been such an integral part of my life. I've honestly, I feel like the soundtrack to my life, I could pick any electronic music song and I'd have something for every instance. For me, it takes a very specific kind of artist or show for me to get excited these days, admittedly. However, I seek those out. In my spare time, there's very specific shows that I will go to. And I'll go in the crowd and I will have just as much of a fun time as I did as if I was 16, 17, 18 years old again, you know, I mean, it just, there's very specific kinds of shows that will make me feel excited again. And I think those get me invigorated. And that in turn allows me to not feel jaded doing my job.
Nik:yeah, dude. That, that right there, that was when I had my first moment of, you know, I guess kind of getting over it, you know? Where I was like, damn, like, I've been to, you know, Control so many fucking times, you know, it's like
Aren Goldberg:Yeah,
Nik:been to the club so many times or the shows but What I realized that was exactly, it was like, Oh, I need to get back in the fucking crowd. It was like, that's why I fell in love with this in the first place. It was like, okay, I'm going to have a night out where like, I'm going to literally leave my phone in the car and I'm going to get on the dance floor. I'm going to shake my goddamn ass. Like nobody's watching and just lose myself and have fun and really go see an artist that I really, really love. You know, like we have Eric prids coming to town in a couple of weeks. I'm like, I'm going to fucking prids and I'm, I'm going ham. You know what I mean? Like I'm going to be just GA like. getting down, having fun, and we need those. I think artists need those as well. I think every artist had that experience of being at a festival and having their mind blown and you know, like, yeah, you got to remember why you started this shit in the first place. And as you said, like really keep that, keep that spark alive. Yeah,
Aren Goldberg:wasn't doing that, I think it'd be much harder for me to find a job. Enjoyment, I think at this point, I mean, but everyone, you know, everyone has a different goal. Like some people are in this just because it is just a job to them and that's fine. You know, those people can exist too. But for me, I can speak for myself. Like, I mean, I, I think it's incredible that, we have the opportunity to even be in this space, it's a very grueling, demanding space to work in entertainment as a whole, specifically electronic music. It's such a niche. Field, you know, to, to land it, to land a, an exciting career in, in this environment. But I think for what it's worth, you know, the fact that I can even have time to go find these kinds of shows in between the madness of what I have, like, I'm very fortunate and blessed to be able to do it. And sometimes even, you know, what I'll do to maintain my level of excitement as well as. You know, a lot of the clients that I'm on or that I work with now, thankfully, you know, we tour all over the world collectively. Uh, and you know, when I get a chance to go to a festival, I always, my first thing is to always look at the lineup of who's playing and I will try, if I have the ability to, I will always try to go early and I will always try to go into the crowd and watch at least one set. And even if I'm just standing there, just enjoying it, even if I'm just standing there, just taking it in, if I move, it's not like my favorite thing in the world. It does give me energy, you know, I just like seeing what's going on. I like seeing people innovate. I like seeing what other people are doing because it also gives me inspiration to keep finding new, unique ways to elevate my own career and my own clients careers. So
Nik:yeah.
Aren Goldberg:I, I like getting myself out in the field and I like walking around. I like getting the energy. I like feeling the energy of all the patrons. I like seeing all the activations at the shows. It just, I like learning. I like, I'm, I'm always learning while doing this job and I feel like being able to travel and experience these kinds of shows and go into all these things just keeps me excited and always learning to reapply into what I'm doing now.
Nik:Yeah, yeah, well that's the thing that I've always loved about you is that you have a spark and You have an infectious personality. That's really really nice to be around, you know yeah, I think that That is such a huge superpower and, you know, I'm sure it's played a huge role in helping you get as far into this industry as you have. There really is something to be said for that. And, um, yeah, man, it's like keeping your own sparklet, you know, just like being a positive person that is excited about what they're doing and, and is grounded also in gratitude, you know, recognizing how lucky we are to be able to do this, to have had careers in this industry. Like I said in the beginning of the call, like you're one of my favorite people in the music industry. You know, there are a lot of people out there that, have really big egos and it's not necessarily the funnest people to be around.
Aren Goldberg:No.
Nik:you're one of those people that are just like, dude, this guy's fucking rock solid, total. Amazing badass and, just super honored, honestly, that, you were down to come on the podcast today and, and share some, some wisdom with
Aren Goldberg:Oh, the feeling is mutual, man. I mean, I really appreciate the words. I, I mean, I've always valued, you know, the insight and like excitement that you also have for the space too. I mean, you've been a part of this community for like, I mean, you told me just now you've been a part of it longer than I've even been around doing it. Before I even knew that I wanted to be a part of it, you were already involved with it, you know, and the fact that you've met so many people across the time doing this and, and have watched people come and go in this business. And you can still say that for me, that means a lot. So I really appreciate that.
Nik:Hell yeah, man. well, dude, thanks again for taking the time to hop on really, really excited to share this with everybody. And, I'm sure I will catch you soon as you are traveling around.
Aren Goldberg:Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait for that moment, man. Thank you so much for having me.
