Headliner Mindset

JIA (6AM Group) - Developing The Mindset & GRINDSET for Success As An Artist

• Nik Cherwink

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Sign up for the free Headliner Mindset Masterclass on 3/31 here:
https://www.nikcherwink.com/masterclass

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https://artistmapby6am.teachable.com/p/artistmapby6am-phase1

JIA is a DJ, promoter, educator, and founder of the 6AM Group and ArtistMap. In this episode, we explore what it really means to be a successful artist in today’s music industry—and it goes way beyond just making tracks and playing shows.

JIA shares the full story behind building his promotion company and brand from the ground up, the hard lessons he learned about burnout, ego, and leadership, and why mindset is the foundation of everything. We talk about redefining success, building a career with purpose, and the importance of personal growth in the artist journey.

This episode is for any artist who’s feeling stuck, burned out, or limited by the industry’s rules. If you’ve ever questioned your path or felt like there must be more to it all, this conversation will reignite your fire and remind you why you started in the first place.

JIA:

it should be about taking care of your life first, whether, you know, do you call it spirituality? I do just calling it just like, personal development Because Life is always gonna be on top of the artist journey. So if we don't take care of life, there is no artist journey.

Nik:

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. Now, I know so many of you that are listening are electronic music artists that are grinding and hustling and making music every day, making content every day, and chasing the dream, working hard towards becoming the headliner that you were born to be. And I fucking love that. And I have had the privilege of working with hundreds, if not maybe thousands of artists at this point during my 15 years of working with artists in the music industry, from major record labels, to helping launch Insomniacs discovery project, to being a manager to working at iCONN Collective. And I've seen it happen. I have seen people go from sleeping on their friend's couch to touring the world, making millions of dollars. It is possible. But I've also seen far more people not make it happen. So many people that have slipped through the cracks that have at some point got burned out, got exhausted, and just quit on their dream because the reality is yes, this is really difficult. It is a huge mountain to climb. And I've also come to realize that it's not just about strategy. It's not just about having great music. It's not just about being good at marketing and branding and being in the right place at the right time. All of that is true, but underneath that, there's a deeper layer, which is really about how's your mindset? How's your energy? Who are you as a person? How are you showing up for yourself? How much do you actually really believe in all of this? And what are you doing every day to make it happen? There's this conversation that a lot of people aren't having, and that's why I'm so passionate about what I do, and I'm also so passionate about what I'm about to share with you guys, which is my very first ever free masterclass. I really want to teach you guys what it actually takes because yes, it is about strategy, it is about the music business, but if you don't have your mindset and your energy dialed in, if you're not being the person that you need to be, it's not gonna happen. I. Straight up. So I wanna invite you guys to join me for this free masterclass where I'm going to teach you and show you what I work on with my clients. This is stuff that I've been doing for seven years, working with hundreds of artists now, just one-on-one through my coaching, and I'm gonna break it down. I'm gonna share it with you. So I would love to see you there. If you've been following the podcast and resonating with the content, this is gonna be an awesome opportunity to go even deeper and to get connected with me. We'll have a space to answer questions, so would love for you to join. It's happening on Monday, March 31st at five o'clock pst. You can go register at nick cher.com/masterclass. I'll put that link in the show notes, but I'd love to see you there. Now, speaking of mindset, I'm so excited to introduce my guest for this week because he is one of the only other. Coaches and mentors that I have seen in this space that's also having this conversation that also recognizes it's not just about the music and everything else, right? It is also about your mindset, your emotional intelligence, just who you are as a person, and we really dive into that on this episode. He has done some incredible things in the industry. He's launched a huge brand in the techno scene. Throwing parties from San Diego to la. He has a merch company, a website. He's built this incredible brand called 6:00 AM and I'm very excited for you guys to check out this episode. So please enjoy my conversation with Gia from 6:00 AM Group.

JIA:

All right.

Nik:

What's up brother? Welcome

JIA:

Hey, hey. What's up Nick? How's it going? Thank you so much for having me, um, through a recommendation from Michael

Nik:

Yes.

JIA:

know. So yeah, have to give him a shout out for that as well.

Nik:

bro. I I'm so glad you did that'cause I was literally gonna do the same thing. I always like to shout out and give a little bit of context to usually how I meet my guests and Michael Hilton. Shout out, melt.

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

Go look him up. His music is so fucking good. But not only that, he's one of my favorite people in the world. Like he, we've done one-on-one coaching together. I've had him in, uh, men's group together. He's been in other coaching groups that I've done, like, we've done a lot of work over the past couple years, and he's just one of the most solid, genuine fucking dudes. So when he looped us in, he was like, yo, you gotta meet Gia. He's the man. You guys are kind of kindred spirits,

JIA:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He mentions that.

Nik:

you.

JIA:

Right on. Yeah, no, I'm super excited about that. And I agree, uh, in terms of his musical talent and just who he is as a person, I always get a sense of peace and calmness when I hang out with him or like when I, you know, when you talk to him. So,

Nik:

dude.

JIA:

that's what he brings to a very chaotic industry or community that we are in.

Nik:

Yeah, we,

JIA:

Hmm.

Nik:

we all could use a little bit more zen and peace and groundedness, I think,

JIA:

Yeah,

Nik:

So,

JIA:

percent man.

Nik:

I love that man. Well, you know, I've known about 6:00 AM Group for a while back when I worked at Icon Collective, I would see some of our students, uh, playing those shows. I started seeing parties popping up. You guys were throwing shows and

JIA:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nik:

in LA in

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

So I've known about the brand for a while. I would love to hear a little bit about the story behind 6:00 AM

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

inspired you to start it and, and what is it exactly that you guys do over there?

JIA:

I launched 6:00 AM group as a hobby, um, in March of 2008 in San Diego. And my only reason to starting that collective with this brand was because I was trying to DJ in the local circuit and during the MySpace days. Or Friendster days. If you look at every flyer, like every DJ name has some sort of affiliation. That was the thing, like, like a DJ name and affiliation is almost like the standards of the, of the mid 2000 flyering. And I feel like because I wasn't part of one, you know, I did try to join other groups, you know, and I think perhaps my approach or the, or my energy of just being too excited, it didn't really resonate well. And plus. You know, networking, making friends in a new city is always hard. So I really was like, you know what, since no one's taking me in, I'm just gonna start this thing called 6:00 AM. At the time I was, you know, um, working at a financial district in San Diego, had to be at work at 6:00 AM but then on the weekends I would literally be at a liquor store waiting for them to open because we're still after partying. So like

Nik:

Yes.

JIA:

like the origin of 6:00 AM where like how it got started. But then it's funny because it's been 17 years now. It's gonna be 17 years next month,

Nik:

Wow.

JIA:

6:00 AM means a whole different meeting. I mean, I was up that time, I was at the gym this morning. It, it seems like you're also a gym guy as well too, I imagine. Uh, yeah.

Nik:

guy too.

JIA:

There you go.

Nik:

spot. You know,

JIA:

There you go.

Nik:

always, I'm not always dialed in, but like, when I'm dialed in, I'm a 6:00 AM guy.

JIA:

For sure, for sure. So that's kind of like the backstory behind it, but then ultimately, like what we were, you know, it's like it. Our identity was created through the journey because back then, you know, I, I didn't know what I was, it was just this brand and I just started like writing about music. I just had a block spot account, and, um, MySpace account and was just promoting shows and raves around the area because there wasn't a lot of information at the time. Um, and so that was kind of the beginning of my promoter journey, if you will. I just started doing it and in August of 2008 I moved to Los Angeles and that was, that's, you know, a lot of people think 6:00 AM is an LA brand and it is, but it started in San Diego and I always wanna start from there. And then it was, when I moved up to LA during that time, that's when, you know, uh, the whole scene opened up and I was, um, promoting for a lot of Hollywood clubs at the time. So Vanguard used to be the old Create Avalon's still there. Um, there was a club night every night. During that time, from Monday to Monday, there was Monday Social focus, Tuesdays melodic Wednesdays, a random Thursday, and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So we were promoting, you know, pretty much, uh, a sub promoters

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

all these parties. And, you know, during that era, I collected a lot of emails and that was the beginning journey of how I eventually launched my own party. I've always wanted to DJ and also throw parties. That was kind of like why I got into it. Like the party was fun. DJing looks, you know, was even more fun than the actual partying. And so, you know, being 22, 23, that was the sole intention. And I would have to say that, you know, it's been one of the craziest journeys because not only was there a lot of self-discovery of like, me as a human being like, what do I want? Like, why am I doing this? Like, this thing is so crazy. It's, it's kind of toxic at times. And, um, to save, you know, everyone to some more breath. I mean, like the journey went from self-promoter and then eventually in 2015, we did our own first warehouse parties. But before that, have to give you the story. So I'm originally from Guam, which is a US territory based in Asia. Lots of World War II history stuff.

Nik:

Mm-hmm.

JIA:

and I launched a music festival in 2013. So it was just always just like. Events collective. And then through the events journey, it kind of just opened up more doors. And I have to give a shout out to my past mentor Steve Pryor, who told me one thing that kind of changed the path of 6:00 AM and my journey forever. Um, eventually I did, uh, start to DJ a lot. Like every Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Avalon, Joseph. Vanguard side patio, all that stuff. And I was getting burnt out

Nik:

Hmm.

JIA:

I'm like, wait, I got what I wanted, uh, through 6:00 AM and this is 2010, but why am I feeling like miserable and sad? And he said these few very simple words that changed forever. Hey, why don't just be more than a dj? I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do just that.

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

I went back and I had this like personal journey of like, you know what? I think I should try to do more than a. Do more than what is on the surface. And so then that's when I launched the 6:00 AM group.com website and we started writing blogs, newsletters, media started covering more grounds and being more of a global company because up up until then, we were just more like local promoters, if you will. So that was kind of like what led into that early 2010 era. And then in 2015, after collecting emails for seven, eight years, we had a. Um, a list for us to start throwing our own DIY parties because here's what happened next. So after I stopped self-promoting, I started working with the clubs directly, and the deals are always shit. Excuse my language. It's either like, all right, they have a bar guarantee the DJs make their money and you don't get any of the bar, you only get the tickets, but all your friends want to come party for free,

Nik:

Explain real quick, what a, what a I, I'd love to just break down what that actually and looks like. as far as a bar guarantee, just for people that don't understand what that is, people that might be interested in throwing their own

JIA:

Uh,

Nik:

are

JIA:

yeah,

Nik:

about how does that work with a venue? If I want to throw a party, you know, do I have to pay for it? Like you said, a bar guarantee. Can you

JIA:

yeah,

Nik:

of what

JIA:

yeah. So, um, if you work with a normal nightclub or a bar, uh, you can throw your party for free. In the beginning, like you can throw it for free, but what a bar guarantee is, is essentially a contract saying, look, we'll give you the venue, my staff, like everything for free, our facilities, but you have to make sure the bar guarantees$5,000, 8,000, 9,000, 10, 15, 20, 30. We've heard all sorts of numbers before,

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

and your job as a promoter is to cover that guarantee. If you want to have a, if you wanna walk away without losing any money. Make sure you sell enough door tickets to cover your expenses, and then also make sure you bring enough drinkers to cover that bar guarantee, because you could,

Nik:

And

JIA:

yeah,

Nik:

in the, you know, electronic music space. Like not everybody's drinking. People might be doing drugs. Like, let's be straight up, you know. So sometimes it's like you get a$5,000 bar guarantee, but maybe everybody there are. Taking other party supplements,

JIA:

yeah, ex, exactly. So that's the challenge.

Nik:

a lot at the bar. So then you only sell$2,000 worth of alcohol at the bar. Now you gotta pay$3,000 to

JIA:

right, right. We or nine do look,$8 bottles of waters exist for that reason. So if any of you're wondering like, what the fuck's wrong with this club charging$7 a bot, dude, it's because they have a bar guarantee. They're making the margins on a bottle of water is really, really hot as well. Um, but yeah, look, my first party that I had a bar guarantee was an after hours at a, at a legit club, meaning I couldn't even sell alcohol. It was just water and Red Bull for like five hours. And we, we, we, we almost hit the bar guarantee, but

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

it is what it is. And, uh, yeah, that is essentially what a bar guarantee is and it could make or break you ultimately as a promoter, especially if you're starting out without a lot to lose. Um.

Nik:

into not just being the sub promoter, you had collected enough email addresses over all of these years, and you stepped into actually throwing your own shows,

JIA:

Correct.

Nik:

directly with the bars and the venues and stuff, and throwing your own parties.

JIA:

Yeah. Correct. And then through that experience, w working, uh, with regular venues and nightclubs, it just wasn't worth it in terms of like, well, if you're not taking the whole night. You know, it is just really not worth the squeeze unless you're booking a big act. But if you're a new promoter, you're not gonna book your favorite headliners because they belong to the live nation world, right? Insomniac, et cetera. Like

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

a pecking order in terms of how you grow as a promoter, even if you have the money. But like it's your first party. The agent's not gonna be like, oh, okay, great. You can pay for it. Here's our best artists for you to do this show. Yeah.

Nik:

is gonna have loyalty to the Yeah. The insomniacs, the live nations, there's a political, like you said, pecking

JIA:

Yeah,

Nik:

it of like, if you wanna play EDC, you better be playing insomniac clubs and not going and playing some

JIA:

yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. But however, there are ways to navigate that. Like if you do establish yourself as a legit promoter and, and insomniac for whatever reason, can't take the gig or like it's EDC, you know, there are opportunities where like if you establish yourself as a promoter, you can get those bookings, but it does. Take some time to grow into that. You know, like you gotta make sure you can just pull people without a headliner. That should be your, your basis foundation as a promoter is like, what is your real pull?

Nik:

Hmm.

JIA:

Yeah. So,

Nik:

who's playing, are people still gonna come just because it's a 6:00 AM party? Not necessarily because it's, you know, whoever's headlining.

JIA:

exactly. Although, you know, that is a, it's a tough battle still, but, but, but yeah, it's'cause headliners drive ticket sales, man. That's, that's the reality.

Nik:

What I really love about your story, and this is a conversation I've been finding myself having a lot lately, is that you didn't limit your creativity and your creative energy. I know part of that was kind like you, you said you were burning out and you're like, okay, I'm just burning out on DJing. So. There are these other avenues that I can put my energy into that might be more rewarding. And like I said, I've been having this conversation a lot with people recently

JIA:

Mm-hmm.

Nik:

I think a lot of artists in a similar way, uh, are limiting their creativity as a producer. If all you're doing is like, okay,

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

an electronic music producer, this is who I am, and so my creativity belongs in the studio, and this is like the one thing that I'm working on. I think a lot of times your creative energy actually wants

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

go in different directions, but you're trying to force it in a particular direction,

JIA:

Exactly. And.

Nik:

like there might be, and when I say creative energy, I mean that there is this like I. Spiritual energy life force. That is like the muses are trying to visit us with ideas that we are all creative beings we're meant to create. It's why we're here. And sometimes we are trying to control where it goes rather than allowing that energy go where it wants to go. Right? Like you might be trying to be like, oh, I, I, I want to be a techno producer so bad, and so I'm grinding

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

you're grinding and you're burning out. You are trying to force your energy

JIA:

Yeah,

Nik:

into a, a corner. Whereas when you open yourself up and say like, wait a minute. Yeah. What else is possible? Where else might this energy want to go? What actually feels exciting? That's the question I've been asking

JIA:

exactly.

Nik:

if this is feeling really hard and you're feeling burnt out, it's probably not the thing to be putting your energy into maybe right now. Like what actually is exciting for

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

the website was exciting. Throwing parties was exciting. Cool.

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah,

Nik:

that.

JIA:

yeah,

Nik:

don't, limit your creative energy to just be in this one thing.'cause that can be exhausting

JIA:

I mean, I love that you said that. Yeah. Because a lot of artists, they see their entire journey as linear, make music, dj, send out demos, meet promoters. Yay, I am here. And it's like, no. Like it is not linear. It is,

Nik:

doesn't have to look like that.

JIA:

it's, and it's, most of the time it's not. It's their own perspective that that is how it goes. But it's. I always say it's, it's make music, DJ something else, and then it will take you to it. Right. And I think the more that you allow yourself to experience more of this industry. Right. And to give you more context, I mean, on top of being a DJ promoter, you know, label owner, an agent as well now a, a mentor, were also, uh, the releasing and dropping merch. So really, you know, all encompassing. At one point we were dealing with artist visas. You know, so it's just like everything encompassing related to it. I kind of just dabbled my head into to kind of see if I like it or not. And, and through that journey, you know, it kind of just gave me this more holistic view in terms of how to approach it. Right? So a lot of the pushbacks that I get from artists that you know is like wadi. You're not an actual touring dj. It's like, yeah, one that is true. But through this whole holistic view, right, of like being in every position, you kind of see how it all works together towards the artists. And number two, you know, I don't know if you ever get this pushback, but it's like, dude, the best basketball coaches aren't the best basketball players. So like, you can't compare so directly.'cause that's what people do. And, and even the comparisons, it's all a very linear way of, you know, to comparing. And it's like, no, I think if you're able to see this. A little bit wider and, and a little bit deeper in terms of perspective and know that there are no rules into this. Right. And then ultimately, like you said, what excites you? But I like to reverse that. It's like, what makes you fulfilled?'cause happiness, you know, it's whatever, but what makes you feel like, hmm,

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

I feel good about where I'm, what I'm currently doing? And you don't have to be touring just yet, but it's like where you're on the journey. Do you feel like whole fulfilled.

Nik:

yeah, yeah. It's a great, it's a great to ask. It's a great. Introspective journey to take of like, yeah, what actually fulfills me? What about this world and about this scene fulfills me as well, right? there's so many great examples of, of artists that I've talked to on this podcast. When you hear about their journey and their

JIA:

Mm-hmm.

Nik:

you know, bear Grills is one of my favorite, favorite ones where he's someone I've, I've knew for

JIA:

was just in Guam, by the way. Yeah,

Nik:

the world. Yeah. He's

JIA:

yeah, yeah,

Nik:

literally playing, you know, all over the world, internationally, touring

JIA:

yeah.

Nik:

started off very similarly. He started off with a blog into the am It was a blog,

JIA:

Oh, into the air.

Nik:

it was a, he had a merch, well, I think maybe then he was throwing shows. He was a promoter. And then that turned into a merch company, which now is a really big merch company. You know, he sold it off. But it was like three or four things. Oh. And he's a manager. I mean, he still is a manager

JIA:

Yeah, yeah,

Nik:

you know, runs a management company with like eight artists and is a dj and it's just like, don't limit to yourself to, uh, yeah. To one thing. And, and you know, again. There's no one right, or right or wrong way to do any of this. Uh, I I gotta, I gotta that

JIA:

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nik:

for some people

JIA:

yeah,

Nik:

like a fucking straight line. It's just like,

JIA:

yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

it. And they know that, and like, and cool. But what I, what I just want to encourage is like, yeah, if it's feeling like you said, if you're burning out, if it's feeling heavy, if it's feeling like you're pushing a boulder up the hill, like allow yourself to explore a little bit. See what else is out there. See, you know, and even just like. Even musically as an artist too, it's like maybe fuck around with some other genres, go to some other parties. Get out of that one scene that

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

a part of too, and, and see what else is out there. It's a, it's a big world and I think especially as an artist, like a real true artist, and, and I do make the distinction between DJ slash producer versus actually being an

JIA:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nik:

is going to really be in tune and be curious about life and all of the different flavors and all of the different types of things that they can taste and touch and play with and experiment. It's not about figuring out the formula, it's about continuous reinvention and exploration. And there's just

JIA:

yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

much to life for us to you know, fuck around with and

JIA:

Yeah,

Nik:

there and

JIA:

a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Look, um, an artist, they're not linear. They're more curious than anything else. A DJ producer is not very curious, like, dude, this is the music that I'm trying to DJ and produce, and so therefore this is it. So I definitely do

Nik:

that.

JIA:

nothing wrong with that. But here's the thing, you know, I feel like everyone who is kind of make you know. Labeling themselves who they are. I mean, at the end of the day, everyone is, is ultimately an artist and creator. So are you, I mean, you're a creator of this platform, creator of,

Nik:

I.

JIA:

of, of spreading this message, getting more people and, and, and this is art in a way. It's called art through communication. Right. As an event organizer, promoter, like the, we're the artists of tonight's event. We're curating the production, the, the operation, the artists, you know, all that stuff. And like in our way, that's in our own art. And so I don't. For anybody that's watching this, just'cause you're not a DJ producer or, or, or a producer, like, it doesn't mean that you're not an artist as well, because that's ultimately we're all creating,

Nik:

Let's

JIA:

all creating something. If you're creating opportunities, I mean, you're the artist of opportunities

Nik:

it's really cool. I'm actually going through, I have it right here. I'm going through this book again right now. The artist, the Artist's

JIA:

Okay, nice.

Nik:

it.

JIA:

I have not, but I, okay. But I'm gonna dive into, I'm into bucks too,

Nik:

It's, it's a, this is a course, this is like a 12 week, um,

JIA:

oh, sh.

Nik:

really dope. I'm running a group through it right now, but it's bringing me back in touch with my roots of how and why I started what I do in the first place as far as becoming an artist coach. Um, and, and I, and I think it's good. I'm, first time I'm really like distinguishing this and saying this out loud, and I think it's good

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

that. I'm not. I'm not a DJ coach, I'm not a producer coach, but, but really being an artist coach and helping people get deeper in touch with their inner artist, and one of the really basic, almost like philosophies that I like to look at and to point out is the fact. That literally all of us are creations. Like we were created. You were created by

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

All of us are all living, breathing, walking, talking manifestations of creative energy. And the truth is, we are creating all the time. Everybody is creating all the time, right? It's

JIA:

Mm-hmm.

Nik:

it consciously or unconsciously, right? We're creating our

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

your body, you're creating your relationship, you're creating your financial situation. We're creating this stuff that we call. Art. But at the end of the day, the biggest piece of art that everybody is creating is,

JIA:

Is you?

Nik:

of their life.

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah. Is you,

Nik:

you're creating your

JIA:

you are the art.

Nik:

artists, and I know that's some deep meta shit, but it's kind of cool when you see yourself of like, wait a minute, like everything I do is art. Everything I do is creativity. And it's like, yeah, let's not limit it as just this, this five minute song is art. It's like, well, what about the rest of it, man? Like my,

JIA:

Yeah, exactly.

Nik:

You know the, the culinary arts, they call that,

JIA:

Exactly, man. A hundred percent.

Nik:

when you approach it that way. Yeah,

JIA:

Absolutely, dude. And just, yeah, this is endless in terms of. How you chop it down. And I love how you also just mentioned, you know, that you have to give a disclaimer that, that, um, it can go either way. I mean, every advice that you have given out it, you know, it's, it can go either way. And I recently came in with a conclusion. I literally came up with a lecture. I'm like, you know what?'cause there's just so many questions, just so many questions. And I've answered so many of them that in the end as I do, we're, we're all right and wrong at the same time. And I want to use an example. Of this, just a very basic example, because an advice is only, it can only be given to a person that is going through a certain context. So for example, like here's the question, Nick, should I start a music label? Well, the answer could be yes and no. It just depends on your context of it. I mean, if you just started making music three months ago and you're still in that journey, the answer is probably no. But if you've been making music for four or five years and you are actually putting music out, et cetera, and like you feel like you've defined your son and you're ready to take that next level, then the answer is yes. You should create that platform to give opportunities for yourself and for others. Again, right? One question, but it could be yes and no. And so like I'm literally sitting there like, oh my God, having my own meta moment. Like, dude, everything is right and everything is wrong. And, and the answer that everyone's looking for. You have to do the work. You have to take the step to meet the answer. you, as the creative soul needs to unveil or, or weed through all that in order to find your answer, because only your obstacle is unique to you. Kind of like how we're all our own DNAs, your own journey, your own luck. And the biggest problem that I. Freaking, oh, I, I'm just getting frustrated, is a lot of these artists, they want this answer of when, well, when Nick, if I work this hard and I put three years in and I do all this, will I make it in three and a half years? It's like, dude, if you, if you know a program that can tell you the exact when, let me know.'cause I wanna sign up for that.

Nik:

Yeah. Man, I, I remember when I was younger, probably high or something, had this realization. I was

JIA:

Hey.

Nik:

We all live on the same planet. like 8 billion people living on the same planet, living in 8 billion different worlds. I don't live in the same world as you. I live in the world of Nick Swin. Right. And so the, any advice that's given to anybody, like you said, it might work for some people and it might work for, it might not work for, for, for others. Right. And and

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

like. I ultimately am living in my own world and my path is my path, and it's my journey and my own set of rules that I get to make up. You know what I mean? So it's

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

the only way to really figure it out is to, I think it's one really important to listen to yourself. It's great to take all the advice, and this is coming from two coaches, two teachers and educators and coaches, and

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

yeah, listen to listen to everything I have to say and fucking listen to nothing

JIA:

Thing I have to say.

Nik:

to any of it. And like. Listen to yourself and figure out your

JIA:

Yeah,

Nik:

you know, and,

JIA:

yeah,

Nik:

you know, you gotta try shit out and see what works for you. But yeah, there's no one size fits all for anything in life because everyone is living their own life, their

JIA:

yeah, yeah, exactly. That's why it's gonna even be harder for me to do Q and As moving forward. I literally had this epiphany like a week and a half ago. I was like, I'm done with Q and As.'cause whatever I say, it's either right or wrong. I mean, yes, that there's people that agree on it, but it's like, okay, but then. That's just for you. I feel like we need to add that context moving forward. Like, look, it just works for you. Now, if you guys all agree, it means you're on the same context. For those of you that don't agree, let's have a side chat about this anyways. Yeah.

Nik:

I love it, man. Well, look, let's talk about, what else you have going on.'cause you have as, as a fellow coach, a fellow mentor, a fellow educator. You have Artist Map, which is the program that you offer for,

JIA:

Correct. For electronic music artists. Yeah.

Nik:

tell me about Artist Map. What is it, what are you offering over there? What does that look like?

JIA:

uh, first, if you don't mind me just sharing a little bit of the story, because a lot of people do ask me, uh, one of the doubts that people have is like, why are you doing this, GIA? Like, are you really desperate for like money and all? Or like all these things like, well first and foremost there's, there's some, but there's not a, a lot of money just yet to be made and stuff. And, and I was taken aback'cause it was after one of a really good session that I had with this. With an artist. And I was like, do you have any other questions? They're like, yeah, why are you doing this?'cause you're, you're busy as shit. Just throwing events, everything that we see on stuff, and like, now that you're making 30 minutes, 40 minutes a day or an hour, you know, however many you'd like to talk to me. And I, and, and I'm just an up and coming aspiring artist. And I have to share the story because, um, artist map actually saved my journey and 6:00 AM so this is in 2017, 18. I've done 6:00 AM for 10 years now. My approach. During that period, it was very selfish, Nick, right? Me, me, me, my, my brand, my gigs, my team, me, me, me, me, me. And when everything crashed and burned. And when you have the mentality, no one is there for you. Everyone fucking laugh.

Nik:

totally.

JIA:

and then, and then you're there with the build, you're there with, you know, the debt, and then you're there with the reality of like, dude, I just spent 10 years here. Why am I still doing this? Everyone left. I feel toxic as shit. I'm burnt out. I'm, you know, I'm borderline of substance abuse. You, you know what I mean? Like, like everything all encompassing, but it's like, no, I love this. I, I've dedicated to this. And so in order for me to kind of. Go through a spiritual journey, or whatever you want to call it, like in terms of my own, like finding discovery to not quit. I learned the concept of giving value to people and, and really doing it genuinely. And, and when I realized that concept, like, oh my God, I did everything wrong the last 10 years, I was not giving value to anyone besides me, and I was this toxic leader, like my way or the highway. I,

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

you know, dude, I've gone through a hundred plus people on the team. I'm not proud of that either. Her

Nik:

Mm.

JIA:

right. But ultimately, I realized instead of quitting, I need to turn all this knowledge and help this community. And the biggest community that make up the scene outside of ravers and consumers of the scene, uh, they're artists. So that's why I started Artist Map with that intent. Now, I'm not a. A producer, producer per se. Um, I wouldn't say I could teach people how to dj, like I know how, but then the teaching the DJing, that's not really my thing. So I, I was like, you know what, well, how can I come into this education online course space in this niche and, and still provide value? Well, you know what? There's a billion answers to be figured out after they learn how to make music and DJ. Right. So, ultimately, the way I explain artist map is, you know, we're a basketball camp that don't teach you how to dribble, shoot and, and rebound. We teach you how to go to the NBA. We have all the tools now that you learn how to dribble, shoot and, and rebound pass, which now that you know how to DJ and make music, and it's, it's good enough. All right, cool. This is how you approach promoters, labels. This is how you start your own label. This is how you throw your own parties. This is how you be more empowered. This is how you negotiate with it. With venues. This is how you deal with interpersonal relationships with other people. This is how you deal with, dude. It's crazy, right? DJ Duos. A DJ Collective, or promoter Collective, come on. We all know what happens after four or five years or after their first major setback. Bridges are burned'cause nobody knows how to communicate.

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

even teach that like dude.

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

know, don't be like me burning a hundred some people, right? Because you couldn't communicate your thoughts or vision and all that. Or like you didn't have the courage to go through the difficult conversations to save that instead of burning it. So with that in mind, I was like, dude, I have something highly valuable to offer that is unique to me because I've also been in every position that this industry has to offer. I mean. Really, like I've worn all the hats and I've realized, dude, through all the hats, all of them, all play a part in helping artists. And, and every artist just needs to understand how these positions are also being placed. So that's ultimately it. But here's the thing. I went through my own imposter syndrome journey. I went through my own artist journey as well, of who am I to teach. I'm not a touring artist. And I had to like. Get out of that mentality as well. And at the same time it's like, wait, I need to create a lot of content. And that's super scary. I mean, it's like, the internet is the internet. Like once you throw yourself out there, like you're not hiding behind a 6:00 AM brand. Like it is your,

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

it is your faith, your, you're facing your mouth out there. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's so, so I went through just like this crazy journey and it wasn't only until the last like year and a half that I was like, you know what? Like, I need to stop being a little bitch.

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

to actually start doing the things that I preach. Others like, you gotta go for it. And so that's kind of where I am right now. You know, I have mindset courses, I have time management, I have communication. I'm also teaching artists how to be better, how to throw their own parties.'cause everyone's like, no, no one's booking me. Well throw your own parties and guess what? After you throw your own party, that promoter's gonna be like, oh wait, let's book this artist because, et cetera. So I really, you know, that's my whole ethos. And a lot of mindset. A lot of mindset that I feel like this is where we also connect as well. And I feel like, you know, I think this is where Michael felt the connection as well. He's like, you and Nick really have this holistic approach that like, you know, it should be about taking care of your life first, whether, you know, do you call it spirituality? Um, you know, I do just calling it just like, dude, personal development as well, right? Because the artist's journey is this, but then there's life. Life is always gonna be on top of the artist journey. So if we don't take care of life, there is no artist journey.

Nik:

A thousand percent man. that was what got me really excited to connect with you because I was like, after looking at some of your content and looking at the artist map stuff, I was like, you're like the only other person that I've seen out there. That is teaching the mindset stuff in this niche, in this industry to this demographic. There's a lot of marketing courses out there. There's branding courses, there's so many fucking production courses, teaching all these really important parts of what it takes to succeed as an artist. But that was the big thing that I learned. Working at at Icon Collective for seven years and years before that, we've been working at Capital Records, working as a manager. You know, literally worked with thousands of artists and specifically in this niche, you know, I had, yeah, over a thousand students that I worked with during my seven years at Icon and. a lot of them, I, I should say I saw some of them go on to blow up and

JIA:

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nik:

them go on to have successful careers, but a lot of them that didn't. Right. A lot of

JIA:

Majority didn't. Majority didn't.

Nik:

sure. For sure. And it's like, okay, what was it? Was it the music? Was it, you know, the branding? Was it the marketing? And the thing is, underneath that, underneath all of it is are you as a person, right? Do you have the hunger? Do you have the drive? Do you believe in yourself? Are you taking care of yourself? Where's your mindset? Where's your energy? You know what I mean? Like there's this whole other conversation that just. Nobody was having. And, and that's how I kind of got pulled into literally becoming a life coach. Like I, I had this calling to just do life coaching and it just so happened to be that everybody in front of me, everybody that I knew were all artists. And so I just kind of fell into that. But I. I'm just really happy to see other people starting to have that conversation

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

it's like, if your head's not in a good place, if your energy's not in a good place, if, if you don't have the energy to make music, you're not gonna be able to.

JIA:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nik:

and you're like, you know, I know a lot of your

JIA:

Yep.

Nik:

dig in a little deeper, is that time management and that discipline, and it's like some of that basic personal development. How to structure your life stuff if, if that's not there, it's the foundation of everything and the rest of it is gonna be really

JIA:

Yeah, exactly.

Nik:

a boulder up the hill.

JIA:

I mean, look, I always say what good is your peace of gear? If you don't have your peace of mind, what good is your peace of gear? Like, come on, nothing great. You know, marketing, but you're like having imposter syndrome. Mentally you have depression, anxiety. It doesn't matter what information knowledge you have, if you don't have that grit. I also call it grit, which is a book by Angela Duckworth. She like, kind of scientifically coined that word. It's, relentlessness, I guess. But it's also just like this never ending. Like you're never gonna give up. And like, you know, and I know this, this is a touchy subject because I have been told like Gia, like the. You and your Gary V style, like bullish shit, like dude, just grind, just hustle, just grind, just hustle. It's like you're up. You are actually hurting people, but it's like, yeah, dude, that's true. But ask anyone who's ever succeeded and be like, yeah, they did it super easy. Nine to eight, nine to five 30 hours and burnout. What's a burnout? It's like, come on. Like dude, that is the journey. So it's like, I don't encourage a burnout, but I will say that a burnout is inevitable if you really have that hunger. Like if you're really going after something that you care about, that's difficult. That's not so organized as in like, oh, this. Is how you become an accountant. Right? And that was supposed to be my journey. Like you do, you do this, you take a CPA, you intern at Ernst and Young and you become through not this journey.

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

is is something else.

Nik:

It's entrepreneurship and it's a totally different, uh, it's a totally different

JIA:

I know. I know. But Nick, I'm an artist. I'm not an entrepreneur. It goes back to what you just mentioned while your linear approach of thinking that you are just an artist. It's like, dude, you gotta be more fluid. You gotta open up your mind like, yes, you're an artist, but you gotta have.

Nik:

You don't have to be both. You can be just an artist, you know what I mean? I, I'm getting back into making music this year'cause I like to play the guitar and I wanna record some metal riffs. I'm not trying to start a fucking band and tour the world, though. I'm not trying to turn that into a business and have that become my full-time job and my full-time career. I already have that. The. Big thing that I learned within the first couple episodes of, of starting this podcast and I had this huge light bulb go off where I realized that really is the missing link for a lot of artists is seeing themselves not just as an artist, but making the decision to say, Hey, I'm also going to step into this world of entrepreneurship and I'm

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

going to start a business.

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

that does come a lot of long hours. And a lot of like learning, a lot of education, a lot of trial and error. Just, you know, like any other person, starting any other kind of business in any industry, it's a fucking, it's, it's a grind.

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

no way around it, you know? But I think there also are, you know, don't know. I'm still learning. I'm still learning on my journey. I mean, you've been doing it for, for, you

JIA:

I am still learning too.

Nik:

as well. It's

JIA:

I'm still learning too. Yeah.

Nik:

I, I think that there are. What's cool is there are becoming a lot of resources out there to help people do it better, do it more efficiently. Just like building teams, not trying to do it all by yourself, right? Like, building in rest to make sure that you don't

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

I work on a lot with my clients. I'm like, make sure like, yeah, you, you do take a day off and go to the fucking

JIA:

Yeah, yeah.

Nik:

And that's part of the, the sustainability.

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

you know, Again, there's no right. Way to do any of it. You gotta figure out

JIA:

there really isn't.

Nik:

gonna work for you.

JIA:

Yeah. Look, um, for any artist that's watching this, that's struggling of like, well, I'm an artist, not an entrepreneur, not a business, look, I'm just gonna set this straight. Your music is a product and your performance is a service. Uh, every business sells a product or a service, so I'm sorry. By that default, you are in business for yourself. And if you understand that, if you are in business for yourself, why would you not? Be the best you can be, but I guess there are shitty pizza shops and shitty coffee shops, so that's why shitty artists also exists as well. Um, I also want to

Nik:

so tell me a little bit more about what are the courses that you offer with Artist Map specifically?

JIA:

Yeah, so we have a free course, which is the mindset and discipline and approach as well. Approach is important as well, right? So I mean, you meet the promoter that you're finally meeting or you're like, oh my God, nice to meet you. Here's my USB book. Me, dude. You know, I've done that before. I've seen other people do that to me. So approach is also like a big part of it is like what is your acumen? What is your temperance in order to deal with that? So that is the foundation of that is like, hey, do you have the mindset? Do you have the discipline and approach? And this is how it is and this is what I'm gonna say. I created Artist Map to also help people save time and to just make them realize like, Hey, if you're gonna quit at 33, I might as well make you realize that at 24. So we're saving nine years of your time. Just like you don't have to go through this nine years, 10 years, 11 years. Be like, oh, this wasn't for me. We could have told you that. We could have told you that, that this is how it's gonna go down. So ultimately, I give everyone a very honest, blueprint and it's essentially, um, broken down into four phases with bonus courses in between. So phase one is mindset and development and approach. And in there it's a homework. It's a homework assignment that could last four to eight years. And it's just a one sentence homework assignment. Produce music, 80% as good as your favorite producer. And send that over to me. And I have a team of engineers that could validate that for you and dude, to get your music. 80, 90% as good as your favorite producer. That's a four to eight year grind depending how, how long you're doing it. And guess what, I don't see a lot of people in phase two'cause they have to pass phase one

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

get to phase two. So a thousand people, 1200 and then like, like only like 90 gets through because everyone's like, well I'm not gonna do this homework. So then, then there's phase two. It's actually the real artist journey, right? Then you make music and DJ to make sure you hold that foundation because you gotta learn how to pass, dribble, and shoot or else the fuck you doing, right?

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

phase two is all about social media, marketing, branding, and that self identity. What is your artist's identity? Now that you know how to make music, you know how to make techno house hip hop dubstep great. What is it that you really want? How are you gonna showcase the world, et cetera. And that's own phase, phase three, which is about to be launched. It's about building your own community. And what this means is either launching a label or launching a collective. Because look, it's true. Adam Bayer, drum code, Jamie Jones Paradise, tell of us afterlife, da da da da da

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

Like it's inevitable. So you might as well start to do that, right? Like. And the only reason why it's in phase three is because, look, this journey is crazy. It's like phase one, you're the artist, phase two, you're still the artist. Now, phase three, you gotta be the artist and now create a label or a collective

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

still take care of your artistry, take care of that. Phase four is where I call Turning Pro. And actually there's only been two artists that's made it that far into their journey. And actually I represent them now as an agent. I know. So a lot of them don't even know that. What's phase four? I go, congratulations. I'm your agent. They're like, oh shit. And then we go through this crazy journey.'cause now they're going through this crazy journey of like, dude, I thought I, you're, I'm like, it's so hard to get you gigs. I know. Welcome to the first part of phase four. It's called a reality check. Just'cause you have an agent, just'cause you have an agent or a manager. It doesn't mean jack shit.

Nik:

Yeah.

JIA:

it doesn't, you know, you still have to put in the work

Nik:

you need to

JIA:

you, you need the man. You need a lot of demand and all of that. So ultimately that covers it. And then, you know, it's under a program called the Game Changer Pro. So there's a lot of information that. Will help you get through phase one, phase two, phase three, and eventually phase four as well. And then I have a time management mastery, and then a communication mastery, which is coming out later this summer. The communication one, it's more about team communication, obviously there's relationship communication, communication with your spouse. That's a, that's one I I, I need to read up on,

Nik:

that course.

JIA:

but it's more about team communication. How do you, you know, build a team? How do you manage a team? How do you manage egos as well? How do you decipher. Ulterior motives within it, right? Because look, six hand used to be a DJ collective, and at at the peak of that DJ Collective brother, I was their booking agent. They would come in and be like, all right, G, where am I playing this weekend? I'm like, dude, uh, you're playing Avalon. You're playing this after hours, all that, and it can get toxic. And it's like they won't do the work unless there's a gig. So like that whole thing just completely like crashed and burned and stuff. So there's a lot of. I'm telling you, there's a lot, and it's, and it's because we're dealing with people the the whole way. The whole way. And then you're dealing with yourself and other people, egos. Nobody knows how to communicate. Nobody knows how to do business the right way,

Nik:

It's so important, man. And, and again, I think it is the, it's

JIA:

a beer.

Nik:

a big piece of the puzzle that a lot of people are not talking about. It's so cool to see you talking about it, um, because. Those lessons that took you, yeah. 10 years to learn, 15 years to learn. Same thing with me. I mean, I've been in the industry for Yeah. 15 years as

JIA:

Fuck. Yeah.

Nik:

I was a, a manager, a big, a huge part of my job as a manager. It's all relationships. It's all communication and negotiation and, and do people like you and are you developing, you know, healthy relationships and alliances and it's so, it's like, so. Much less about business strategy than it is about emotional intelligence is really what we're talking

JIA:

Yeah. 100%, man.

Nik:

I'm like, fuck, if somebody could have taught me this stuff when I was in my early twenties and I was trying to navigate the music business, even just as a manager, you know, I kind of had to learn all those lessons,

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

way. So to have someone that's gonna break it down and like you said, kind of save people time, it is so huge, right? Because in the music industry, to a large extent, it is about who you know, but it's really about who you know that actually likes you and fucks with

JIA:

Fuck. It's crazy, right?

Nik:

people are gonna do favors for their friends, and this is where you have a lot of like fake bullshit ass kissing kind of ego type of stuff. But like when you can. Really be a solid person. Also have really healthy boundaries and, and not be a people pleaser or a pushover, but really be like genuine and authentic. Be humble, but also again, be strong and have those boundaries. It's like there's so much character development that you have to have to be able to like, especially the deeper you go and you really start fucking with like. Big people in the industry, you gotta have a really rock solid internal character and, there's a lot of work that you actually can do on that. Like a lot of it is like, you have to just kind of get in the game and you develop that along the way. But

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

you study the shit and you work on it and you learn it, it's like there's, there's a lot that you can learn. I've been, studying personal development since I was, yeah. 21, 22, like right outta college

JIA:

Damn crazy.

Nik:

really fucking well, you know?

JIA:

Yeah, dude, I only got into personal development like a little bit in my early thirties, going into mid thirties.'cause I was just so entrenched in this. I mean, and that's why I was a piece of shit asshole. Like, I mean, I'm just gonna say it, say it that way. I mean, I wasn't the nicest, I wasn't the nicest in terms of how I approached it, uh, in my twenties, but, but I got a lot of things done. But

Nik:

Yeah,

JIA:

it was very, uh, yeah.

Nik:

Yeah. Yeah.

JIA:

Absolutely, and, and look, uh, to unpack what you just said right here, because a lot of people are like, look,'cause I get it, like we're in the question economy now. So all the artists like, dude, that sounds great Nick. How do I do that? How do I become that? So I want to just be able to give someone who's watching this some just very basic guidance. Number one, always ask, how can I give value to others without expecting anything in return? Because here's the reality, right? If you're really genuine about this, it will test you. It will really fucking test your character, because by giving, and then just like, yeah, I don't need anything. I don't want nothing. I don't want to gigs, I don't want money. I, I'm, I'm just here to give and provide value that will test you, and that will reveal who you really are. Because, you know, I just posted a video today in terms of like. Don't be a this for that. Networking is about relationships, not transactions, right? But then I ended it with, look, do it genuinely and not because some asshole, not because some person on Instagram told you to do so. Because, because here's the thing, Nick, this is one thing a lot of artists are good at, artists are smart and be like, that's a great idea. Now I'm gonna take advantage of that mentality and like, I'll do it genuinely, but in my soul and my heart.

Nik:

Yes.

JIA:

Ooh, Nick and Gia said that if I, if I act this way, if I act this way, be like, oh yeah, here's, but then dude, I'm, I'm here to tell you if, if in your heart, if it still has that the universe, God, whatever you want to call it, this thing, it's just gonna push you further away from it. And then you're gonna be even more pissed off. Be like, Nick Gia, it didn't work.

Nik:

Yeah, bro.

JIA:

It,

Nik:

This is it, bro. This is, this is, this is the shit I really work on with people in, in

JIA:

go.

Nik:

one-on-one coaching stuff.'cause it is, it's like, yes, this is the Headliner Mindset podcast, but I love that you're actually pointing at your heart if it's not in your heart. It's not just the mindset, it's also the heart set where your heart, where's your soul, you know what I

JIA:

Yeah. I call it grind set. Yeah.

Nik:

set.

JIA:

Your mindset grind. Set. Yeah.

Nik:

that, that lesson right there, you know, you were saying that. IIII love that you're bringing it up again, this idea of, uh, give unconditionally. Right. Give first before you take, I was so lucky. To learn that lesson. Pretty early on in my career, I'd worked at Capital Records for the first three years of my career, and then was a manager for like a, like a year or two. And so during those first experiences, it was straight up music business like, what do we have to do to promote our artists to get our, you know, to get our bag, to

JIA:

Or, yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

it was this. Total kind of cutthroat music business

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

a

JIA:

Yeah,

Nik:

wasn't until I started working at Icon Collective that, shout out David Alexander. I actually have an episode with him. Highly recommend all of you

JIA:

Nice.

Nik:

the episode with David Alexander, one of the co-owners of Icon Collective. But

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

me down and he was like, he's like, Hey man. He was like, if you're gonna be the one out there, like really being the face of our company and, and representing the collective, I want you to approach every relationship from the perspective. What can I do for you?

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

And he completely fucking flipped my world upside down in that one conversation. But I immediately, I started practicing it. And it was, it was purely about like, Hey, how can I help? What are you trying to accomplish? How can I serve you? How can I benefit you

JIA:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik:

take it from me? Go do that for five years. Go do that for seven years and watch the universe deliver everything you've ever wanted back to

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

always gonna come back to you, maybe from that person that you help out directly, but you just become that kind of person, which means you just start attracting that kind of energy back into your life. And maybe it sounds like some woo woo shit, but like, just go and fucking try it

JIA:

Yeah. No, a

Nik:

see

JIA:

hundred percent. Exactly. Exactly. A hundred percent. Thank you for sharing that. It's funny that you were working at Capital Records during that time. I was probably, uh, we probably crossed paths'cause I was hanging out in a Hollywood and Avalon area so much

Nik:

Yeah,

JIA:

those years. But, um, but yeah, dude.

Nik:

yeah. I I got my

JIA:

yeah,

Nik:

Avalon, like in the electronics scene really, uh, on the Friday night parties, uh, for control with

JIA:

dude.

Nik:

Jaso. Those are the guys that like got me into the

JIA:

Dude, I think, I think we connected,

Nik:

should check out

JIA:

we, we definitely did connect because we were the ones who did the Friday Bardot frenzy after hours upstairs every Friday night. It was us. Holy shit. That was you guys, the control.

Nik:

fucked up at two in the morning after getting free drinks at control and be

JIA:

go.

Nik:

let's keep it going. Let's go upstairs.

JIA:

Yeah. And then, yeah, I mean, if you ever saw a bunch of Asian DJs playing there, man, it's, it was me and the collect,

Nik:

Yeah,

JIA:

but, but it's amazing to see how then, like, we didn't connect them, but now we're connecting here through this whole different, uh, narrative that we're trying to push. So look, to give everyone that's watching an example in terms of the value that you provide, I mean, it's a voice, it's a platform. It's, it's to help us promote whatever it is that we're trying to promote. And obviously. Share many, many insights, right? Because every podcast, every episode, you know, people will walk away with something that they can take action on. And that's one thing, you know at Artist Map is what I really emphasize. Don't just be a knower. Don't just like, yeah, I know, I know. Now I know it's, I know you gotta go do it. Don't watch all the courses. Watch the courses that matter, and you have to go apply. So. I feel like you and I could probably chat for even longer. I do the, our hours up almost than that.

Nik:

Well, as far as action items, you said you have that that first part of your course is free, you said, right?

JIA:

Yes, it is.

Nik:

start the, the, the first part of artist Map. I'll put

JIA:

Yes.

Nik:

a link for it in the show notes for you guys to go and check out. But if any of this is resonating with you, if you want to dive further into some of this mindset stuff that we've been talking about, GIA is the fucking man and you guys should totally go check his stuff out.

JIA:

Yeah, well in reverse, uh, you're the man as well, Nick, and I've always enjoyed your content and I, you know, I, I reached out to you even before Michael connected us even to, just to quickly, I, yeah, I think I just quickly reached out like, Hey, Nick. Awesome content. I love what you're doing.

Nik:

It was only a matter of time. Bro, I'm glad that

JIA:

Yeah.

Nik:

and thanks so much for taking the time to hop

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Nik Cherwink

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