Headliner Mindset

GRAHAME FARMER - How DJs Can Grow a Real Fanbase in 2025

• Nik Cherwink

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If you’re a DJ or producer trying to build a real fanbase, this episode is essential listening.

Grahame Farmer — founder of Data Transmission, YouTube educator, and creator of The Artist Blueprint — breaks down exactly how artists are growing in 2025.

From social media strategy to automation tools, Grahame shares the real tactics that are helping artists get signed, grow on SoundCloud and Instagram, and actually build community — not just followers.

🎯 In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why most DJs fail to grow on social media (and what to do instead)
  • How to pick one platform and master it
  • How SoundCloud became a powerful social tool again
  • DM hacks, Instagram bio tips, and audience-building strategies
  • Tools like ManyChat and ChatGPT that are changing the game for artist marketing
  • Why YouTube might be the best platform for DJs right now
  • The mindset shift from “content creator” to business owner

We also dive into Grahame’s new book, Gather, Give & Grow, and how he used AI to write it — plus the launch strategy that got it to #1 on Amazon.

Whether you’re just starting out or looking to take your project to the next level, this is a deep, practical conversation full of gems.

🎧 Follow Grahame:
https://www.instagram.com/grahamefarmer
https://www.youtube.com/@grahamefarmerdt
https://www.grahamefarmer.com/the-artist-accelerator
 
Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com


Grahame Farmer:

there's so much money to be made in streaming. There's so much money to be made in, in Spotify and SoundCloud and YouTube, and. The only people that say that there's no money to be made in it are the people that dunno how to do it,

Nik Cherwink:

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast, and this week's episode, we dive into the nitty gritty of how to grow your audience as a DJ and producer, my guest, Graham Farmer, has literally written the book on Instagram growth and has a YouTube channel with over 50,000 subscribers where he breaks down the best strategies for marketing yourself as an artist. So grab your notepads and let's dive in. Graham, what's up brother? Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here today.

Grahame Farmer:

Hey, thank you for having me. I love your podcast. So thank you so much for having, it was such an honor to be on this podcast. I've been listening to it so much. so thank you so much for having me on. It's, I'm really excited.

Nik Cherwink:

Dude, the honor is all mine, you know? Thank you for shouting me out. That was how we originally got connected. I did an episode in the past with Joe Wiseman, who runs Insomniac Records. I. Awesome episode For anyone that's looking, wanting to get signed into the insomniac world, did a great episode with that. And then Graham, you have this incredible YouTube channel and it was really cool to see like, I'm like, oh, there's like other people kind of talking about my stuff out there too. It was like repurposing content and I think that was kind of the first time that it happened. I was like, hell yeah. So

Grahame Farmer:

nice.

Nik Cherwink:

for the shout out and you know, introducing my stuff to your people as well. Um, I would really love to start off. By just digging into what is it exactly that you do, because you are a coach as well, in a sense, you're helping artists with marketing. I know there's a lot of different things to do, but tell me it is what it is exactly that you're helping artists with these days.

Grahame Farmer:

so basically I started a website called Data Transmission 17 years ago. and Data Transmission is now this ma it, it started as a blog and a music website, and it's now kind of as music blogs that all music blogs have done. They've expanded and now they're kind of. Channels on SoundCloud and Spotify playlists and YouTube channels and, and this massive media kind of space that that is, you know, that is everything that our blog is these days. so I started that and I grew that and one of the first things we did with data transmission was started SoundCloud, and I really love SoundCloud. I grew a SoundCloud. The biggest one I've got now is 190,000 followers and we've done like 150 million streams on it. One of the tracks uploaded is a nearly, it's just about to break 10 million plays.

Nik Cherwink:

Wow.

Grahame Farmer:

Um, from that, we've grown other SoundClouds that are. Is one of them is our data transmission radio. So the other part of the data transmission is it's a radio station and we have like 180 people hosting shows. I've been people, it's DJs, producers, record labels, event promotions. They all host their own show on our online radio station. and then the final part of data transmission is we have five record labels. So data transmission is its own record label itself. That's the kind of main label. And then we have a. DT weapons, which is kind of like new talent. They kind of start on DT weapons. We release a few on there and then if they, if they start growing as well, then we kind of hope that they'll progress onto the main, onto the main label. Then we have a drum base label, uh, DT DMB,'cause we have a whole drum base side. Which Shelly, my partner runs. So I do house, tech house. She does drum based jungle and I do disco and techno as well. Then we have a label called 63 B, which is like a deep tech minimal label. Basically, I used to work at a nightclub called Terminals Nightclub in London, and 63 B was. Basically it was 63 B Clark Andwell Road. So I kind of bought, I kind of pulled in the old from, that's where date transmission started in the, in the club.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

so I kind of pulled that and that's a deep tech minimal label. I really like it, really groovy, kind of really great music. and we have a completely different strategy for that label, which is so fun. And then we have a disco label called Disco Infiltrators, uh, which we just launched. Two weeks ago with a track from myself. Uh,'cause sometimes I DJ under an alias called Ron Mexico. Uh, he's kind of in the fancy dress box and we tuck him away in the fancy dress box, uh, over Christmas. And he only comes out for the festivals and we open the fancy dress box and he comes out with the Rackers and a, and a trumpet and, you know, he's just, he's just sort, we just kind of put him away for the moment. But we have this label called Disco Infiltrators and for anyone that knows LCD soundness and will recognize disco infiltrator as one of the tracks,'cause I've absolutely love them. So that's data transmission. And then from data transmission, like 2017 or 20. What you in now? 20? No, 2015 I started working with a young artist called Ben Sterling and another one called Archie B. And basically they used to, I used to help them kind of get track signed and like I just did it on like as a, as we were mates and we're hanging out loads. And Ben was lives from where I live in Milton Keynes. And literally would just meet up, listen to his tracks, I'd, I'd kind of connect him. We went out when he got, when he got old enough'cause he used to come with his dad'cause he wasn't, he was still really young then. And him and his dad used to come around our house. Then when we got older, we took him out to clubs and took him networking and helped him get loads of tracks on. And then some point 2017, he, Jamie Jones started playing five of his track, which I'd sent to Jamie.'cause I met Jamie at Snow Bombing in 2011, I think, or 2010. So I've been kind of working with Hot Creations from a DT point of view for all that time, and then helped him get those tracks signed and then they basically took off and he exploded. So basically after that happened, there was this, like, I had this like mad aha moment. Well if Ben's struggling with all this stuff. So many other DJs must start with it. And that's when I started my Instagram account

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Grahame Farmer:

uh, I changed the DT YouTube channel into my own YouTube channel'cause it wasn't really doing much. My YouTube channel then is I. Is literally artist development education and like I look at things like Instagram. I look at how to grow on Spotify and the importance of Spotify. I look at how to get demos signed and that's why I kind of looked, I was, we'd done a kind of series where we've been looking at how to get signed to tour room and how to get signed to effected, and I was like, it had been on my list of things like I have a lot and a list of YouTube. Titles that I wanted to do and how to get designed to insomnia and then, and then your video coming along, I was like, this is perfect. It's like basically all the information is in that video and I just need to kind of chop it up and put my, put my two pennyworth in. And what I think from the kind of bits that were said,'cause there was a lot that was said, but there was a lot that was

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

not said in, in, in the gaps. And you kind of, if you understand the bits in the gaps,'cause you know the space then yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

I have an idea. You show me your list of what are, what are the other labels, what are the other videos that you wanna make? You give me a hit list. I'm gonna go get all those dudes on the podcast. We'll interview them and then, and then we'll send all that over and we'll make YouTube videos out of it. We'll get a, we'll get a little ecosystem going on over here. We'll tag, we'll tag teeing'em from different angles, so you just let me know.

Grahame Farmer:

That sounds sick. Yeah. So, um, so that was my, and YouTube and Instagram started, started 2017 and then I literally didn't do anything with it for a year. And then the end of the year I was like, well, I'm gonna start coaching artists and I'm gonna do one-to-ones. And I basically put it out there that I was gonna do one-to-ones. And I thought I put out, I had 10 spaces for 10 DJs. This was after like a year of basically just giving loads of information, loads of stuff, and just. Really not asking for anything, just giving everything like, and we had 250 sign up

Nik Cherwink:

Wow.

Grahame Farmer:

I was like, and I was like, whoa,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

is, this is mental. And we took basically 20 on. And then we did that for like three years. And then from that, then I built my course, the Artist Blueprint. Uh, I've written a book. Uh, I have a, I have a mini course on Instagram. I have a big, I have a Medium course, the Arts Blueprint. Then I'm just about to release some bigger courses as well.

Nik Cherwink:

Love

Grahame Farmer:

that's kind of my course ecosystem.

Nik Cherwink:

it's so cool to hear what you're doing.'cause there's obviously, there's a lot of alignment, you know, with what I'm

Grahame Farmer:

Mm.

Nik Cherwink:

I'm just a little bit more, I've kind of been a bit more behind the scenes, uh, kind of working through just more so word of mouth. Like I, I, I post on Instagram and I'm just stepping into the like, wait a minute, let me actually like, put more content out. And the podcast is obviously, you know, kind of. Put me more out as like a public facing figure and stepping into, you know, kind of the course game over this last year as well have, have a course too. So it's an exciting space to be in and, and really what I think you hit on, a huge point, which is that there is a lot of people out there trying to figure out. How to do this right. And a lot more than we can ever actually really, take on ourselves, you know? So it's just great to see other people kind of in that space with the same mission of helping artists and specifically helping electronic music artists, you know, make a career out of their art and out of their passion and figure out how to navigate this game. So I'm really excited to dive into that with you. Uh, I also love that you just. You come from a long history of being in the game, you know? how long did you say it's been since you started Data Transmission? You said that was like

Grahame Farmer:

17 years. And then before that I worked for a nightclub. I've been in the industry for like 22, 23 years now. I worked for a nightclub. I worked for Terminal Mills, which is a nightclub in London for like five years, and learned so much in that space. So yeah, I've been in it a long time now.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. So you've seen the evolution. You've seen it all change. You've seen it all shift. You know, I, I started getting into the electronic music scene in LA around 2009, so it was like, uh, yeah, 15 years. But just seeing, especially in the United States of seeing how it really exploded over here. It went from being underground to being, you know, so incredibly mainstream and, Just the constant evolution of the industry, right?

Grahame Farmer:

Hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

that's always changing, especially in terms of how do we market ourselves. So, I'd love to really just dig right in and get into, I think the question that everybody is asking and trying to figure out is like, what's the best way to promote myself as an artist? And we can take that in a couple different directions, but let's start on the, on the content side. You know, everybody wants to grow their audience, right? your perspective right now in 2025, what's the best way to do that?

Grahame Farmer:

Do you know what I tell my students is, do one platform really well. there's a big. Thing that you have to be on everything. You have to be on everywhere and everything,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

and you have to be on that all at once. And I spoke about that for a little bit for a while, and then I was like, this is draining. Like I do two platforms, for myself, Instagram and YouTube. I have help doing them. I have an editor that edits my videos. And so if it was just me, I would do one platform really well, with doing one platform really well, you literally spend all your time on it. from a social media point of view, like you learn like all of the trends and all the little things that work and little bits of content that work and you learn. Like if you think Instagram for instance, it's got six or seven surfaces that you can put on and I, when I mean surfaces, it's got reels live. Posts stories,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

notes, broadcast channels, you know, each one of them's a surface. And you've gotta have a strategy for each, each little part. And if you are doing everything else, then you can't have a really good strategy for that platform. And the, each of those surfacers on that platform,'cause each one, each one of those little surfaces will have a different strategy. So just do one really, really well and then work out kind of which one's gonna be your. The one you talk on and the one that's gonna be, you know, your output. So whether it's Instagram, whether it's TikTok or, or sometimes whether it's just, you don't wanna be facing you. It could be, you know, X or threads or something. You're just gonna type, that could be your output. Like, then the next point is, where's your music gonna live? Like when you start, where's it gonna live? Like for me, SoundCloud is such a good platform. Like so many people poo pooh SoundCloud. But the last five years there's been such a shift when TikTok and short form content came out, SoundCloud had this massive rebirth and you know that it's like SoundCloud dance, which is actually a, a, a genre now within SoundCloud, it's only little genre is massive and the kind of audience within SoundCloud is now 18 to 24. Like we've had seen records get. Signed from SoundCloud, just from a few social media videos and they're pointing to a track on SoundCloud and, and the SoundCloud algorithm is so fun. Like it acts like a social media, so it's like it's gotta have likes and it's gotta have comments and it's gotta have reposts and you've gotta, again, you can message people indirect, you know, in the back end of SoundCloud now there's a whole fan section and you can literally. Message your top engaged fans and say, Hey, I've just finished this new, this new thing. Have a listen.

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Grahame Farmer:

really just be in the weeds with, with just your SoundCloud following.

Nik Cherwink:

I like that a lot of just seeing SoundCloud as a social media platform, that's a big perspective shift rather than just like, oh, my song just sits here. You know, it's just a distribution platform. But actually seeing it as like, oh, this is a way for me to engage with my fans, and just seeing it from that perspective is, I think very different than a lot of how most

Grahame Farmer:

Oh,

Nik Cherwink:

it.

Grahame Farmer:

totally. Well, if you think about, if you think about any social media, it's got. Comments, it's got likes, it's got shares, it's got messaging. That's pretty much the kind of standard template of a social media platform. SoundCloud has all those, like you can, like I said, in in, in SoundCloud for artists, the backend, you can literally go and see, right? These are my two most engaged fans, but also these are my least engaged fans, like, and you can actually now pull them down within. These are my most engaged fans in the United States or the United Kingdom, and I'm gonna see who those are. Imagine you are playing a tour and you are going to the United States, and you go, right, I'm gonna go to the who's message my top fans on SoundCloud, and go, I see you're in my country, or I see you're in the uk, want to come and hang out. You can be my plus one. And imagine that person getting that message and that that kind of fan engagement, which is so killer, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

You point to a really good, perspective as well, which I like to always point out that like social media is about being social. A lot of times when we think about content, everyone's so focused on content. How do I make content and upload it and hope that people notice me? It's very, very different than how do I use this platform to be social, to be a

Grahame Farmer:

A hundred percent.

Nik Cherwink:

and a connection point, a way to connect and actually socialize. With my fans and like send them dms and say thank you, and say what's up? And comment back and engage in conversations, ask them questions. Right. Obviously it, it takes a little bit of time and energy, but that is gonna build a really strong, connection between your fans. Ideally you don't want just a bunch of vanity metrics and a bunch of likes and, and a bunch of numbers. It's like, I want actual fans that I have a connection to, that they're gonna come to my show, they're gonna support me. Like I would rather have a thousand of those than 10,000 people that just happen to like a silly post that I made. Right.

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah, a hundred percent agree. Like the biggest reason people fail on social media is because they post and ghost and they just literally think that's it. They stick it up and they're gone and they miss the, like you're saying. It's a social network. You need to be social on this platform. You need that connection.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

and that's what goes back to my point before, like if you are only doing one really, really well, then you've got that little bit extra time to, to build that community. And that's essentially what the, the whole point of the thing is. You're building your community

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Grahame Farmer:

building a people that like what you do, but also in the same mindset and the same space as you. I was watching this thread on Facebook the other day and it was someone moaning about social media and they literally had this massive load of comments. All of people moaning and I, and I was gonna go in and go, well, you. But then I thought, well, you found your community. You found a community of essentially other moaning fuckers that the moaners that is your community. Why don't you get them into a WhatsApp community? Or what, where you can actually talk to each other and you.

Nik Cherwink:

and complain about your lives together. Build a community around it. Great

Grahame Farmer:

But you, but you, but you could. That's your community. And if you're all into the same music, then you are just the Mona community. But they all buy each other's records and you found your, found your little community, you know, like,

Nik Cherwink:

let's go. That's so funny. That's so funny. But this, this is also a great point too. you and I are sitting here creating more content together. Helping people, inspiring people, sharing our message, sharing this conversation because we connected on social media at some point, you know, you dmd me or you tagged me in something and we started having a message together, it wasn't just observing from the sidelines. Now there's a relationship here. Now we're collaborating. That's another part of social media that I think is so important for people to remember too, is like, yes, it is about building your audience and your fan base, but also building your network. You know, there might be fans that you could be collaborating with as well. You know, so just have more conversations is really what I'm getting at,

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah, a hundred percent. Like once you start knowing your fans and knowing your audience, like they'll start putting little comments in, and then you turn that into content, like you're saying, like you can turn that into content that becomes, and then they become deeper into your community, and you are just, you're just building this community of people out, and you just have to start one by one. But I, I always think like, if you. If you built one fan a day and you just really like the person that someone followed you today and it was one person and you literally messaged them and said, Hey, welcome in. Or you sent'em a little voice note, how long does that take you? No time at all. But if you did that every single day for a year, you'd be, you know, 400 people bigger than you were at the start, but you'd have such a deeper connection with all 400'cause you were messaging'em back and forward And then like the other side of that is, say for instance Instagram. Once you start DMing people, Instagram goes, oh, your friends, like it's the algorithm. Algorithm goes, your friends, I'll show each other your content. So you're actually gonna get more views on all your other content because you're using all the features. IE using one platform at a time.

Nik Cherwink:

great point. That is such a good technical hack right there. Instagram is going to recognize you as being important to that person, and they're gonna

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

putting your stuff in their feed and your stories are gonna show up at the, at the top of their list. So it's, and and what I'm, it's really funny we're bringing this up'cause literally just before. We got on, I was checked my Instagram real quick and I had like two new followers, right? Two new artists, two new, you know, potential collaborators, potential clients, potential homies. Right? And there was a thing in my head where I thought about that, I was like, oh.'cause I used to do that i've had my moments where somebody would follow me and I'm like, oh, cool. Let me just send them a message and say, Hey, thanks for the follow. Here's a link to the podcast. Check it out, hope you enjoy the content. Just having a little two second engagement, and I don't do that anymore. Right? But they popped into my head this morning where I was like, oh, I should just like shoot these. Shoot these guys a quick message, and really what it boil boils down to is just. Not being fucking lazy. It, that

Grahame Farmer:

I

Nik Cherwink:

me

Grahame Farmer:

know.

Nik Cherwink:

seconds to do. Right. Just like, Hey, yo, what's up? Thanks for the follow, here's a link to the podcast. Or even engaging in a deeper conversation. So, uh, I think that's what a, that's what a lot of this boils down to is just not being lazy

Grahame Farmer:

honest to God. I tell myself, Graham, stop being lazy. Go and do that thing. Or Graham, go make that thing. I like, I literally, Graham go make that piece of content. Stop being lazy.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

are, I don't care how tired you are. Just go and make that piece of content. you'll thank yourself for it in like, probably, probably 10 minutes after you've put it out. Just go and get it done. Stop being lazy. I tell myself so much to stop being lazy. It's mental.

Nik Cherwink:

So just to recap, so far what I'm hearing is one, just really choose. One platform really go in on it, really master that. Don't worry about being on five platforms and spreading

Grahame Farmer:

Oh, fuck that.

Nik Cherwink:

you know, too thin in different places. I can see how that would be too overwhelming. then I also really love this piece about like, even yeah, looking at SoundCloud as a, social media platform in, in a sense really emphasizing this importance around connection. let's talk specifically about Instagram, because I feel like that's the one platform that pretty much every artist is on, I think should be, obviously a lot of people are on TikTok as well. What are some tips that you have for really growing on Instagram right now?

Grahame Farmer:

With the calls I have for my course, I literally, I'd say 98% of people, I ask them, what's your main channel? And their main channel is Instagram. So I agree with you, like, um, tips for going on Instagram is firstly, literally like, you've just gotta understand. who you are posting for. And you kind of like, if I, I, I did a video the other day where if I'm starting from, if you're starting from zero and you're thinking, right, I'm gonna start my Instagram today, where do I start? So first and foremost, it's kinda like that little gather, like just kind of gather a PA few people that the same sound, same music, same labels. And it's not a follow for follow thing, it's just you go and follow them and start kind of being part of their community, being part of someone else's community. Like I, I just started doing this old table football game that I used to play a long time in the back of the past and I started, I started that back in August and I started doing their social media forum.'cause I I started playing it and Shelly goes, I bet you end up doing the social media in about, in about six months time. And I, and I am.'cause I was, I was like, I was like, and then basically I started a channel and then I didn't post anything, but I just really did the bio really well. Like, I'm doing this, we do this and we are looking for people that are in Milton Keynes that play the, that just, and we are, we are being really specific. So for like, from a DJ. I make house music. I live in so and so. This is one of my latest DJ mixes, or this is my latest release. And really just use that bio space to really tell people who you are, what you do, where you are, and, and also if you're looking for bookings, I'm bookable from here. And then start just being part of that community. And start gathering people into your community that are in the same place, the same space, the same part of the world. And then once you've kind of get that, got that, then you can kind of work out, well, what do they want to see? So many people post on social media with, I want to tell you, I. And it's not, I want to tell you, it's, you want to see this'cause everyone's on social media just to be, just'cause they're either bored or they're just watching stuff or they're just swiping and they don't care about, you know, the show that you are gonna play unless they're in your community. They care about how they're gonna be entertained, what's, what's funny, what's entertaining. And a lot of the time like. DJ content still kicks, like still. These are my top five tracks. These are my top six records. These are three hacks that I've done and it's gotta be around DJing and producing.'cause the new recommendations with Instagram where they're changed the algorithm lit, like I've been watching my stats and the last like so many, your posts now are only gonna go to 40, 50% of your current followers. So that means the other 50% don't have a clue who you are. So that means you need to make content thinking. This person doesn't, potentially 50 people, people that people watch this don't have a clue who I am. So you need to think about what's gonna. Kind of gather them into your audience as well. Like, what content's gonna work for them? So it's like DJ content, it's like, you know, producer content. It's like studio content. It's something that's gonna be interesting to this world to dance music and DJs. And maybe it's like maybe you do a live stream or you. Or you make a video and you cut it up, or maybe you like, like I see some really great ones where it's like, they'll play, they'll do a long form YouTube video mix, and then they'll chop it onto little bits. That works really well. or maybe they'll, you know, record a mix of SoundCloud and then chop it into little bits to promote the mix on SoundCloud. or just some of the, some of our ones they'll just like, these are the top five tracks that I I'm into this week and this is the top five music I'm into this week. And these artists are the top five. I'm into. a couple of things happen when you do that sort of content, you are tagging all the people. So then again, it's like the how we met. Like, you're tagging people in the comments, in the caption, sorry. And then they're gonna find you. So they're gonna be kind of gathered into your community. You are giving to your audience, like you are just kind of giving them the content they wanna watch. and then the final bit is like you're trying to, if you wanna grow, then it's like. Then it's about amplifying that content. Can you get people to share it? Can you use things like, I use this thing called mancha, which is absolutely killer. Like,

Nik Cherwink:

Oh, you

Grahame Farmer:

like.

Nik Cherwink:

that? I've seen that before. ManyChat.

Grahame Farmer:

So good. Like I like if you are giving away a free download, for instance, you just put comment free, download and the Mancha bot will reply to everybody and say, here's the link. And they'll put the link into your, into their dms. And what really happens now, if you've got a Spotify link, If you are saying, right, my new, this is a part of my new track, like you're in the studio and you do a production clip and you go, this is me making my new track. If you want to hear it, comment the word disco ball, and then my new track will be in your dms. And what happens with Manny Chat and Instagram and Spotify. Now the track's playable. From the dms, like you don't have to, you don't even have to from Spotify, you don't have to leave DMS or Instagram. You can play the track on Spotify in the dms, which means they can listen to it in your dms and you can message back and go, that was cool. Or you can then, but also you can set with man chat and automation. That happens 24 hours later. What did you think? So they get another message going, what do they think? And then they'll go, oh yeah, I'm into it. And then that starts the DM conversation, which we were speaking about earlier, which then shows them more of your content, which helps you grow.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. So basically you can start automating a lot of this, right?

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

and at least on a basic level, right? Comment this word, and we've all seen that before. Comment this

Grahame Farmer:

Yep.

Nik Cherwink:

want the, you know, the free download or the, or the link, right? And then you can schedule it to have them follow up the next day. Hey, what'd you think of the song? Or, or maybe when they play it or something like that. I love that. And really. You know what we're talking about. This is, this is, you know, AI technology. You know, there's so many new AI tools that are coming out that, that we can use for our businesses. And so this is cool, man. I, I, um, I saw this one a while ago and I, I never, I never downloaded, I never tried it out, but it's really cool to see how this could be applicable for an artist. So many chat, MANY chat.

Grahame Farmer:

Yep.

Nik Cherwink:

out. That sounds like a great tool to use. Are there other AI tools that are coming out that you're using and recommending clients to use? Is there anything else out there that you find useful?

Grahame Farmer:

So I just, I use chat, GPT. Like every day. I wouldn't just go write me a, write me something, because it just gives the base. I literally treat my, chat GBT as a virtual assistant. So I'll ask it. What do you think about this? What do your thoughts on this? I, I'll, so I'll start like when my YouTube scripts, I'm like, right. Today we're gonna write a YouTube script. I, this is the title, these are a load of ideas I've had about it. Let's just brainstorm that. Ask me some more questions so that you can get some more information. From my brain about what's gonna, what we're gonna, what we're gonna include in this script before we even think about the script. Then I'll go line by line and go, Nope, don't like that line, let's change that. No, I don't like that. And really just go back and forth as a kind of, as, it's like my ghost writer on my virtual assistant.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Grahame Farmer:

Um.

Nik Cherwink:

I have a client who recently just had a huge breakthrough around his brand we've been talking about, just getting to the bottom of Yeah. His brand and what it's all about. And, I just kind of sent him off with a, with a few ideas, and then he just went in on chat GPT and came back next week and was like, dude, like I just went down the rabbit hole. And now he like, has. This whole vision and all this stuff and, and it really helped unlock a lot of ideas. So, especially for branding, I think that that is a great tool and resource just to like, have some conversations. Like it will really ask you the right questions if you,

Grahame Farmer:

I think. I think, I think don't just use it surface level. Don't just like write me my Instagram strategy. I'm a dj'cause it's just gonna spit out generic. It's just.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. And it's so obvious too, like that's the thing I don't like about it. Like I, I've tried that where I'm like, oh, back to me being fucking lazy. And I'm like, oh, write my newsletter for me. And then I'm like, this is kind pretty garbage. It sounds like you're a fucking bot. It doesn't sound like me at all. I'll

Grahame Farmer:

Yep.

Nik Cherwink:

do it myself. So.

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah, yeah. Uh, I, I've tried out the, there's an, actually an AI in meta in Instagram itself. If you go into the search, there's a meta ai, and again, that works a little, that's on the LAMA four. And you can use that the same way as a chat GBT, but it actually works within Instagram. Again, you really have to, like, you can't just do surface level with it. I did a video on it and like the, the results were really surface level and I think you've just gotta treat it, like you've really gotta go in and into it with it. but the Man Chat thing, I. I absolutely can't sing enough of that. Like when you do free download, it can literally, like, you can have the track, maybe you get a clip and they comment and then the track is the free download is sent into their dms. Like so many cool things,

Nik Cherwink:

cool about that too is you can start tracking the metrics from it. You know, similar to how you were talking about SoundCloud is like pull up the backend and see where are your fans

Grahame Farmer:

I.

Nik Cherwink:

you know? That's kind of the next level of I. just being a business owner and starting to understand metrics and marketing. And if you, you know, I come from, my original first job was working at a major record label. It's like major labels are like deep in that, you know, like they're

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

every single number. What are the sales? Where's our budget going? Like, you know, who's downloading

Grahame Farmer:

sick.

Nik Cherwink:

from where? Like they're. Analyzing that. And if we're not signed to a label and we don't have a management team, you know, like a good manager, a good team, they're gonna be studying that shit. And it's important for you. Who is the business owner at the end of the day? That is like, start getting familiar with that stuff. Like pull up the backend and look at like who's listening and where are they from and okay, I put out this song and you know, not just looking at how many downloads did it get? But like, you know, let's, let's even say you're maybe running some ads, like, okay, you did a boost. Like, well study. Did that actually work? How many new followers did you get? Like, crunch the numbers around it. And I think a lot of people are kind of scared of the numbers and kind of scared to open up the backend stuff. Which I'm, I'm only barely, you know, just starting to do that where I'm like, oh, I can. I can actually open up emails and, you know, when I send an email out, I can actually look at like who opened it and like, there's all this information on

Grahame Farmer:

Nice.

Nik Cherwink:

let's start, you know, studying that stuff. So,

Grahame Farmer:

a hundred percent.

Nik Cherwink:

about.

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah, a hundred percent. And then the, the other one, like, the other thing for growing is like, like you're saying with when you're running ads, like that's such a big one. If you and I do it, like if a post goes mental and I get, I usually do it like seven days after the post has gone up. So I leave it for seven days, get a load of organic and see what the organic growth is. If it's. Doing much bigger than it's an outlier and it's getting much bigger than kind of the other, my other content. Then I definitely will go into, business Facebook and run this. Like, there's a campaign called Video Views and it basically just pushes the views up so more people can see it and more potentially people can see it. And I really target it to certain areas I don't use that. I would suggest don't use that boost button. literally do it from an ad manager, and get your head round ad manager, which sounds super scary. And it is. It's like going into a cockpit of a plane

Nik Cherwink:

It's another, it's another language. Yeah. It's a

Grahame Farmer:

A hundred percent. But what I can tell you about that boost button is, you know, do you know when you, you know, when you're a kid, you used to go to the, the arcade and you go to the arcade and you play some games, and then it spit out those little tickets. Do you have that in the states? Like, and then you take those little tickets and basically go and get a toy from behind or something from behind the counter, right? Now once you're a parent, you go, they spit their little tickets out and you go, well, I just spent 40 pounds or$40, and that toy is worth about seven.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah,

Grahame Farmer:

Right?

Nik Cherwink:

yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

It's the, the ROI is not adding up, right? So I could have just taken that 40 pounds and gone bought my child a toy because they would've got much more for their money, right? And that's how I see the Boost button and running promote ads. The Boost button is getting those little tickets because the ROI is not as good as if you took the money and put it into the promote fund,

Nik Cherwink:

And you hit on a really important point that I think some. Some people don't know yet, which is, which I, I remember early on when I first was working at Icon Collective and was helping with the marketing department, and we'd be like,

Grahame Farmer:

Nice.

Nik Cherwink:

this post isn't doing that well, so let's, let's boost it. Let's push it. We want people to see this post. And it's not doing that well, so let's put some money into it so more people see it, which is the complete backwards way of thinking, right? Which it's

Grahame Farmer:

Yep.

Nik Cherwink:

wanna see if there's a reason, there's a reason it's not doing well, it's not doing well.'cause it's a bad post and it's not performing. The creative sucks, the copy sucks, like people don't care about it. And

Grahame Farmer:

Yep,

Nik Cherwink:

you can only. Polish it turd so much. Just shoving it in front of somebody's face is, is not the, the right move. So exactly like you said, let me see. Like, oh wow, this posted really well. People like it, people resonated with it. That's a good sign. We want more people to see that one. That's the one to throw some money into and, and

Grahame Farmer:

a hundred percent.

Nik Cherwink:

like you said, you gave it seven days. Like, I wanna see how this thing performs. I wanna see how it takes off. Sometimes we can shoot ourselves in the foot, boosting too early. Like it hasn't really run its course yet, so you gotta give it that, that couple day window. And then once the traffic dies off, like, okay, cool. Like, now we know people like it. Now go throw a hundred bucks into it and, you know, push it out to more people. The other point I'll make about that as well, um, is like, yes, one. ads can be a little bit scary. I'm still in that stage of my business where I don't do any advertisement really. Like I just went and did my taxes and, and was like looking at like ad spend. It was like I just spent like$200 on ads like Boo

Grahame Farmer:

Oh my God.

Nik Cherwink:

doing like Facebook boosting, you know, here and there. And so I understand one, it's intimidating. I also understand too, if I learn this shit, I will five x my business this year.

Grahame Farmer:

I agree with you, like I agree with you like that, that is the wrong way. Like if you are just making the ads and if you're making, if you're gonna run ads on track, on content that's not doing very well, you are right. That is completely the wrong, wrong method. And, and so that's the whole kind of, the algorithm doesn't like me, The content hasn't done very well, and it's not like I made this killer piece. I think it's a killer piece of content, but the algorithm hates me. No, no. People just didn't like it. Your content was shit. And you are right. People will run ads on the, on the piece of content that's urd and you can, like, you can roll a turd in glitter, but it, it's just not like, it's just not, it's still not the same. Is it like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Also, the other thing I really like to point out to people as we're talking about spending money on ads is, you know, every time I is, is just to be conscious about where you're spending your money on a day-to-day basis anyways. Like if you're going. You know, to the bar and on a Friday night and you're dropping a hundred bucks. That's a hundred bucks that you could be putting into advertising your next song if you knew how to advertise, if you knew how to use it. Right. I just think about all the like dumb shit that I spend money on and then like in my head I'm like calculating. I'm like, oh damn, that's like, there's like a thousand dollars of like ads, like I could be running to, you know, to reinvesting in into my business. And it's not just in ads, obviously, there's a lot of things that we could be spending money on. There's new creative and, and artwork or, you know, new, new equipment or whatever, which I don't think y'all need. Thousands of dollars of equipment you can work with what you have, but specifically, you know, with advertising, you could probably be pushing your project forward a lot more. And just to be conscious of, all right, where could I be saving some money every month and have a little bit of an ad budget? Nobody in the music industry that's like really operating at a high level is. Running purely on organic, right? Everybody is spending some kind of money. There's some, kind of push behind it. And especially as you go higher up in the industry, I mean, we're talking like tens of thousands of dollars going into advertising, every month and every release to really get it to like those highest levels. So just something to be conscious of that I always like to put out.

Grahame Farmer:

Agreed. Do you wanna know? Another platform that I really like for DJs? there's a platform that I think so many DJs miss and it is YouTube and like I can tell you some, a story about YouTube. Like so many people that just want to be DJs and. I've had this theory for a while and it's, and it's been playing out across a couple of YouTube channels that I've been watching for a while and. If you are not into the production and you don't wanna produce, but you just wanna be a dj, then there is a such a home for you. Your one platform could be YouTube,

Nik Cherwink:

totally.

Grahame Farmer:

there, there's a channel called Flavor Trip. Go and check'em out. They're absolutely banging. They started maybe 30 months ago, I think this is their three year on in Dec in the November and. They've done, they do two videos a month, one every one, every two weeks. And they're up to like 600,000 subscribers just doing DJ mixes. Some of their mixes have had four, 5 million streams. They've built this MAD community in Patreon All their community posts on YouTube, get mad comments, mad engagement. They've built a merch brand off the back of it, and. No production, they're just playing really cool music. they're filming on an on a couple of iPhones, a light, maybe they started on a controller. they're kind of, they're touring around Europe. They were touring around Europe in the vans. They were living this nomad life and it's really sick. so if you are trying to think like, right, what channel do I pick and what channel do I wanna be? But I don't, I'm not into the short form content thing. I don't wanna be, you know, doing this. I don't wanna be doing that. My God, just, just start making a YouTube video and then, but again, like learn the platform like titles, thumbnails, descriptions, all are absolutely must be the absolute killer. That's the thing you need to learn, you know.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, if you can crack that code, man, it's, it's wild how fast you can grow. My, um, my friend and, and previous business partner, Chris White, he runs a branding agency called The Cult Creatives. And it's funny, he actually is the one that gave me the name. Headliner mindset. He's like a branding genius. And so we were

Grahame Farmer:

Nice.

Nik Cherwink:

and, and it popped into his head. He was like, headliner mindset, like, that's what you do. And I was like, oh shit. And so he kind of created the brand, you know, for me. But then he went and created his own podcast, uh, relatively recently and just. Already has like 20, I dunno, 15,000 followers on his, on his YouTube channel.'cause it's like one, he's got really good quality stuff, really good cameras and everything. But he just sat there and he is like, all right, I'm gonna figure out, I'm gonna figure out this YouTube thing. I'm gonna figure out, what are the right, titles to use, what are the right thumbnails? And, you know, there's a science behind it. But yeah, he just sat, he sat down and figured it out and really cracked the code on it. So I,

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

agree. And, and, and the other part about that is like. You know, DJing and the DJ life as far as getting on airplanes every week, you know, a lot of people think they want that, but I think it's important to really get clear if that is something that you want. You know, a lot of people really love making music, and that's awesome, and a lot of people think that that's the only way that they can really make money from it. As I, as I, I have to do this DJ thing, and so that is not always the best lifestyle. You have to have the right kind of mindset, the right kind of like road warrior personality. Like you gotta love that shit. Otherwise it's like,

Grahame Farmer:

A hundred percent.

Nik Cherwink:

exhausting, physically, mentally, emotionally. So you know, if that's not for you, like, I know for me, I would, I would not want to be, gone all the time. Like I'm a bit more of a homebody. I like to be in my, in my own bed and go to the gym in the morning and that kind of shit. It's like, you gotta get. Real about what kind of lifestyle you wanna live. Also, I've seen, you know, duos where it's like maybe there's one guy that tours and then you're more of the producer for that project and you're not really the face of it, but you're making music for it. And there's a lot of those situations out there as well. So it's just good to get really clear on like. If that really is the path that you want to go down. Great episode to shout out was one with Laid Back Luke, where, he really talked about just the reality of what it's like to be on the road and, and you know, how, how tough that can be. So definitely go check that episode out. Uh, total legend of a dj. but

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah, I agree. There's, that's the thing, like, that's so mental, like you have to be so like, this is what I want to do, like. There are, so like you're saying, some people just wanna be producers and there are monies to make money. It's like you can, you know, you could produce and you could put stuff on Bandcamp and your output could be SoundCloud and maybe you put it on the streaming platform for the discoverability, but your kind of real focus is those that space or maybe your production is. I get really good at producing. I release some labels, but then I'm just gonna teach, or I'm gonna do something else. I'm gonna have a, a Discord where I do feedbacks, and it's about finding that little space that's yours. And maybe you are a dj, like I said, YouTube and understanding that side, or just find your platform and your space that's gonna work for you and, and then you can go, you know, go forward.

Nik Cherwink:

I had a client who was making 20 grand a month off YouTube.

Grahame Farmer:

Amazing.

Nik Cherwink:

that was, and you know, he had an artist brand and he would tour like a little bit, but he was like, dude, he's like, I don't, I don't have to. I'm making 20 grand a month off YouTube, because he just cracked the code. It was like SoundCloud and YouTube, but just streaming. A lot of people think there's no money from streaming. Whatever he was doing was working and he was getting like millions of plays on, on both platforms. And he is like, this is more than enough to, to live on and he is doing okay with it. So there, there is money there to be made. If you're making, really good shit and you, you figure out the platforms.

Grahame Farmer:

there's so much money to be made in streaming. There's so much money to be made in, in Spotify and, and SoundCloud and YouTube, and. The only people that say that there's no money to be made in it are the people that dunno how to do it, and they're in the wrong, like they're talking about mindset. They're in the wrong mindset. They're just, instead of moaning that they dunno, they're not making any money, then

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Grahame Farmer:

go and work out how to do it. There is money to be made. If you look at some of the biggest late record labels, they locally say, you know, 40% of their revenue is from music and streaming and royalties. So

Nik Cherwink:

totally.

Grahame Farmer:

a hundred percent is money's been made in it.

Nik Cherwink:

so before we got on the call, we were celebrating. This new book that you put out, congratulations. First of all, like

Grahame Farmer:

one here.

Nik Cherwink:

you have it right here, physically holding the actual book. It's so

Grahame Farmer:

Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

to see that for you. Like I've always, in the back of my mind, I've had that idea of like writing a book someday. It seems like such a daunting task to sit there and get all the ideas out of your head and actually. Put them in a way that makes sense and finding the right word. So first off, just kudos to you for sitting down, doing the

Grahame Farmer:

Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

you know, making it come to life. Uh, I would love to hear about the book. Tell us about what this book is.

Grahame Farmer:

So basically the book's called Gather, give and Grow. Uh, it's a basically the social media blueprint for, for Instagram, for DJs and producers. And I started this process last summer. like you say, I've wanted to write a book for a long time, and I've seen, I've bought so many books from creators on YouTube and that. Have turned things into books, and I've kind of, I've always, I always think like a book, like an album. Like you don't just kind of drop an album. You have loads of singles and you build an audience and that, and you build a community. And then when you drop the book, people actually want a book from you. And not just, not just, they're not just, it's just not gonna go out there and not do anything, you know? So I started it last summer. I, I was sitting there thinking, I've got all these YouTube scripts, like for every, for every video I write. A really long, probably 20 page script.

Nik Cherwink:

Wow.

Grahame Farmer:

go, I spend, I spend probably two days researching and research and looking for data and looking at like case studies that work and spend. So, and I'm spending more and more time now on, on scripts for YouTube. And I was like, well, I've got all these scripts. What if I just upload them all to chat GBT and see what it can do with them?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Grahame Farmer:

then it's got all of my conscious thought from, from all of my scripts, and maybe it can then maybe it could then turn it into a book. So I did that and it kind of went. I dunno what to do with all this. And it started, it started doing it and it took a while. And then I

Nik Cherwink:

Overload.

Grahame Farmer:

fucking Mel, I nearly melted it, uh, because if you think it's like, probably, probably four or 500 scripts. And it took me ages to upload them all.'cause you can only upload'em in like 10. So I literally sat there for days. And then I started thinking, right, well that was a, that took a bit of time and that, so then I started just doing the Instagram ones.'cause I, and then I was like, well if I just do Instagram, that's a lot less scripts. I'll just copy all that in and let's see what it spits out. And then I basically started, it started spitting me out a kind of like. Structure. Do you happy with this structure? And I was like, Hmm, that's quite cool. And then, do you know LA a bit later in the year, I saw this Instagram post and it was like the three E's of growing on Instagram. And I was like, well that's quite cool. but my name begins with a G and I wonder, I wonder if there's three Gs. And so that's where we get, then we get our gather, give and grow basically. And then. So then I started working out like, what are these three Gs and if they can be, you know, if they, if it's even possible. And then that sort of worked out and then that kind of thing molded into this, like the three sections of the book. And then we could kind of like work out what each section's gonna be and start then turning into. This finished product and then, and then you start getting the, then you start, they can, I did it with Amazon Print on demand. It was super easy, so you should definitely do it, dude. You can basically get the transcriptions now for all these YouTube videos. So I got, there's a, there's an AI that basically pulls all the transcriptions and put, and you put that at that transcription into chat gt and it gives you like all the, all of the chat and who said what, and basically gives you more stuff you can put into a book.

Nik Cherwink:

Okay. Here's, here's what I'll say is if at least five of you send me a DM or comment that you want me to write the Headliner Mindset book, I'm gonna fucking do it. All right? But y'all, I,

Grahame Farmer:

You should all comment. Definitely go and comment. Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

Let me know. Let me know if we should do it or if I get to continue being lazy and not do it.

Grahame Farmer:

I might go and get all my team, there's at least five of them. They can go and comment.

Nik Cherwink:

So, so what, what does this book cover, walk us through what, what this is, uh, what are some of the big points that you're making here in the book?

Grahame Farmer:

start.

Nik Cherwink:

give, and grow mean? Let's

Grahame Farmer:

So, yes, like as we spoke about with the Instagram, you may have noticed I weaved in there in the Instagram section. So we're kind of gathering an audience that like we've, the, the into what you're doing. Like it's about finding that little tribe that starts off with, and then you're kind of give them the, the content they wanna watch. And then we're gonna talk about growing and we're gonna talk about ads, and we're gonna talk about influencers and trying to really push that, that content that's really working to the, to the, to the wider sphere, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Got it.

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah, it's really fun. Like you do it with Amazon, you upload it, they, you upload the cover and then you start. I've got some, like, so we've got the, we've got early proof. They start some new early proof, so you can see like there's a, there's a kind, there's a kind of difference between on the YouTube videos, so

Nik Cherwink:

Oh,

Grahame Farmer:

it evolved over time.

Nik Cherwink:

you, man. I'm, I'm gonna have to

Grahame Farmer:

Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

I think that's so cool. You know, it's

Grahame Farmer:

Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

in this digital content era. We, we kind of lose, you know, we've lost the art of books. I think, you know, like, I, I, that's. For me, I've always grew up just like you can see behind me. I'm like, I'm, I'm a, I'm a bookworm, so,

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

I I

Grahame Farmer:

Love it.

Nik Cherwink:

we get to put some of this stuff into physical, tangible, readable books now. That's really cool.

Grahame Farmer:

then the fun bit started, I finished writing it. I writing the fun bit and I've written the book and then it's like, right, let's start working the social media strategy out and let's start making the content and let's start planning the I. The only thing you couldn't do with Amazon was like, you couldn't get a pre-order link. So I had to build this like broadcast channel in man chat that basically everyone signed up to pre and then I could basically blast them on on release day, which worked so well.

Nik Cherwink:

Cool.

Grahame Farmer:

because essentially once we blast them, had loads of purchase on day one, and we went to, we got an Amazon, we had two, Amazon category, bestsellers, number ones, uh, for two of the, two of the book ca two book categories on Amazon, which is absolutely buzzing. Yeah, really cool.

Nik Cherwink:

Congratulations. Well, everybody go to Amazon. Order a copy of the book. Make sure you are following Gram on

Grahame Farmer:

Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

uh, and your YouTube channel as well. That's is, it's under your, your personal

Grahame Farmer:

Yeah, Graham? Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Farmer. Cool. I'll make sure to include the links for all of those in the show

Grahame Farmer:

Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

And um, and I know you're also running. The Artist Blueprint. It's called The Artist Blueprint, right? The Artist

Grahame Farmer:

Yes, yes.

Nik Cherwink:

go, go follow him. Check out all of the, all the courses, all of the books. If you're trying to grow your brand and your career as an artist, this is obviously somebody that you wanna be following. So Graham, thank you so much for taking the time to come through and uh, yeah, I'm excited to collaborate with you more, man. I have a feeling that there's some

Grahame Farmer:

Let's do it.

Nik Cherwink:

we get to build together. So, uh,

Grahame Farmer:

do it.

Nik Cherwink:

the seed planted today.

Grahame Farmer:

Let's do this. I'm so, thank you so much again for having me. This has been so fun. Like, um, yeah, everyone will go, everyone going comment liner for sure. And make, make him write a book. Let's make this happen.

Nik Cherwink:

It is

Grahame Farmer:

I wanna read that book.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Thank you for the inspiration.

Grahame Farmer:

Wicked. Thank you for having me. I.

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