Behind The DAW w/ Nik Cherwink (Podcast Replay)

This time, the mic's turned around.

I recently joined my friend Wyatt on the DAW Nation podcast for a deep dive into the mindset, spirituality, and authenticity that fuel a thriving music career. We explored what it truly means to succeed from the inside out—beyond the algorithms and into the heart of artistry.

If you're ready to ignite your inner fire and align your energy with your creative journey, this one's for you.

Follow DAW Nation here:
https://www.dawnation.net
https://www.instagram.com/daw_nation

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Transcript

riverside_nik_raw-video-cfr_behind_the daw_0010: 0:00

There's A difference between being a producer and being an artist. Being a producer is, you understand the math and science of how music production works. Being an artist is creating from the heart, creating from the soul, do I actually have some fire inside of me, inside of my chest, inside of my belly, inside of my fucking soul that I want to bring to the world?

Nik Cherwink: 0:27

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. This week's guest is a really special one because this week's guest is actually me. I recently got to sit down with the DA Nation podcast with my good buddy, Wyatt, and if you're not familiar with DA Nation, you gotta check these guys out. They have. Some of the absolute best music production courses in the game. So if you're looking to level up your music production from sound design or even vocal production, they recently put out an epic course on vocal production. You gotta check them out. But we really dug into some deep stuff. You know me, I like to get a little bit woo woo. So we really went down the rabbit hole talking about spirituality, talking about just being an authentic artist, how to really keep that. Inner flame and fire lit inside of you, so this is a really special one. I hope you guys enjoy.

1:17

I wanna welcome you back to another episode of Behind the Do This Week we have Nick Sherwin, who is near and dear to my heart. He was one of my mentors at Icon Collective, you know, like 50 years ago when we were both very young. Nick, thank you so much for coming on the show. How you doing today, man? Dude, I'm doing so well. I'm very excited, excited to be back because I did one of these with you a long time ago, if I'm not mistaken, right? Years ago, dude, that was one of my favorite episodes ever. In fact, since then, Nick has started his own podcast. You know, I explained more of that in the, the intro of this liner mindset. I went on there. It is an amazing podcast. If you're not, subscribe to it. Repent and change, and go and subscribe to it right now. But Nick, why are we have people here and we're, we're catching their interest. Could you be so kind as to mention. What is one of the worst decisions that you've made for your career inside of music? At one point I was working very closely with Pasquale, from Insomniac. I had about six months prior to that, uh, I was working at Capital Records, which was a really cool job to have. But I also had fallen in love with dance music and I was like, I want to get into that world that looks so fun. That's where my passion is. I'm going to raves every weekend. Somehow six months later, I'm literally working, you know, pretty closely with Pasqual and they were starting the Discovery Project. So I was very involved in helping get the Discovery project off the ground. I wasn't technically working for Insomniac around that time. I, I was working for the manager of the Black Eyed Peas, who was really good friends with him. They had grown up together pretty much, and like really good buddies and so, uh, we were managers that were helping them with this Discovery Project platform. To make a long story short, I guess he wanted to hire me. He was like, Hey, I really like Nick. This guy's cool. He's sharp. Like, I want to bring him onto the team. Uh, he didn't tell that to me directly. He told that to, um, the guy I was working for, and I, and I basically passed it up. I was like, no, no, I'm good. And I think I was kind of being like, I don't know, humble or whatever. And, and, uh, I was like, yeah, no, I'm cool. Like, let's, I'm happy with, with what we're doing here. And shortly after that, and he did a huge deal with Live Nation and like, they just like blew everything up massively. And so there's this, you know, there's that always that parallel reality of like, oh, if I had made that one decision differently, where would my life be? And I'm like, probably could have been like, pretty high up in the insomniac, you know, food chain throwing big festivals and stuff over there. So, uh, I would say. That was, uh, something I look back on sometimes and wonder what if so is, is the main, is the main concept with that is that you, you didn't feel like you were enough to take that opportunity. Is that, is that the moral to the story? Really what it was, was I had been talking to Icahn at the time and I was getting more excited about that. You know, I was like, icon was very small at the time. They were, they were just, you know, kind of still unknown and, but I just, I just, there was a vibe over there that I liked, that I resonated with and I was like, I think I want to, I think I want to, I just started to teaching like one hour a week I would come in to teach a music business class, and I was like. I didn't know what it was, but I think my intuition was just pulling me. I was like, yeah, you know what, I think I want to see what's happening over here. I wouldn't say I regret that decision.'cause it, it all, it all worked out just fine. But yeah, one of those fork in the road moments. I appreciate that man. And, and domination. Make sure to stay all the way to the end because at the end of this episode we're gonna ask Nick, what was the best decision that he made for his music career? You, sir, are one of the most intelligent people that I have come across. Like, I like to think that however many grams of protein you have per day, that's what your IQ is, right? So if you're doing 200 grams of protein today, you're 200 IQ individual, right? And so, um, you, you are very concerned with the, the higher thought. The higher emotion things. And I, I don't have a good term for that. I wish I did. But you know, we were talking about your five pillars to success inside of the music industry, right? And I'm gonna see if I can remember'em. It was mindset. Did I get it right? Am I good on number one? Mindset, music, branding, something else. Branding. Um. Something in the networking, what was the fourth one? Marketing. Marketing and the networking. Right. And so the very first one kind of ties into what we're talking about, like that, that higher mind, not so surface level, you know, kind of grindy stuff. Well, I guess the music could be in the, in the higher mind as well. But tell us, Nick, what, in your own words, what does mindset mean? What does that entail? I mean, that's in the title of your podcast, you know, what does, yeah, let's give us a hard definition for that. Mindset touches everything. What is your mindset when it comes to music? Right? Are you just chasing trends? Are you kind of doing it for the. Wrong reasons in the first place, making music.'cause you just want to get famous and impress people, right? Or you want to, you want to prove the bullies wrong. That, that you're, that you're valuable. Right. Or, or you know, what's your mindset when it comes to branding? Are you, do you, do you understand the music business in the first place? Where a lot of this is coming from is that I have worked with artists for, I think like 15 years now, and specifically electronic music producers from being a manager to launching the discovery project, working at Icon Collective for so long, I've worked with like hundreds, you know, with like literally just at Icon, like had over a thousand students during my time there and I saw a lot of people. Go on and succeed, like become really huge. We're talking main stage touring, headlining DJs, right? Making millions of dollars a year, crushing it. And I saw far more that didn't succeed. Right? And I think that everybody really is looking at, okay, well obviously yeah, you need to make great music, have a good brand, like get really good at marketing, build your audience, get good at social media, you know, networking. You need to know the right people. We're looking at all of this stuff that's kind of above the surface. And like I was always thinking about like, what is it really? Like why did these guys succeed in the other? Like in 90% either quit or they only made it so far, or they're still kind of struggling. And it's like, yeah, all of those above the surface, things matter. But below the surface is who are you as a person? Everybody's working on their career, but are you actually working on yourself? Right? Like, what is your mindset? Uh, and some of those qualities, I'm like, yo, a lot of these people, they, they were extremely hungry, extremely driven, extremely focused, um, but also just really believed in themselves. Uh, you have to have a high level of emotional intelligence to be able to navigate relationships. You know, you have to be a likable person. People don't wanna work with people that, that aren't likable. So there's a, there's a whole other realm of things to work on that a lot of people aren't thinking about and, and, and focusing on. And so that's where I realized, I'm like, Hey, this is, this is the stuff that people eventually started coming to me to, uh, ask to help them with. You know, uh, I said, kids started coming to me at Icon saying, Hey, will you be my mentor for the quarter? And I, and I was like, I technically can't be your mentor. I don't know how to produce music. I can't teach you how to produce music. And they're like, no, I want you to teach us the life stuff. Because they, they started recognizing like, oh yeah, there's, there's a lot more going on here than just. Making tracks and releasing records and building an audience on social media. You know what I mean? Like there's such a deeper, uh, area of work that needs to be done and, and focused on. And, and even artists that are already at, like, I have artists. I have clients, you know, I'm a, I'm a professionally certified life coach now and have been running a coaching business for seven years. I have clients that are full-time touring artists. They're actually my favorite clients to work with because I don't have to help them at all with their business, with their branding and their marketing. It's purely now that you're succeeding and you're getting on a plane every weekend and, and you're dealing with the pressures of the industry. How do you keep your head screwed on straight? There's a lot, uh, there's a rollercoaster of challenges that come with that. And they're not just external challenges, they're internal challenges. All of our, all of our success starts from the inside out. That's, that's really, it's playing the inner game. That's what I, I, I really choose, choose, you know, focus on. And so when I say mindset, yes, it's mindset, but it's also, it's also more reflective of. Everything on the inside, mentally, emotionally, um, even physically, like energetically, like do you physically have the energy to like put in every day? Uh, and you know, spiritually as well, I love to kind of get a little bit spiritual and go down the woowoo path. So, so mindset kind of represents all of that for me. That's the stuff that I really focus on with, with my clients and in my work. The work that you're doing and the concepts that you're talking on is something that I think about deeply all the time. Uh, not only from doing the podcast, but just like in my own life and, you know, trying to find that, that it, I guess it's like the inner fire because a lot of the things that we're talking about right now. The music, the brand. Well, again, music you can kind of argue kind of is some of that deeper stuff. Well, at least music creation, right? Ho. Hopefully it is. I hope so's what I hope for people. Yeah, exactly. But, but the, the marketing, the, the, you know, the branding, what the cover it's gonna look like, the logo, animations, like all that kind of stuff. I kind of see that as like, like we've said before, the tip of the iceberg or the smoke, and then what is the fire that's making the smoke. Right. Because unless you know if, unless you have like that roaring fire Yes. In the inner hearth. It just, it doesn't. Do, you're not gonna have a lot of smoke. Right. And Yeah, yeah, yeah. There it is. There. It's, that's, that's it. No, you're, you're, it's the best metaphor. You could, you could possibly, I I love that. And if you don't mind, I'm absolutely stealing that from you.'cause it is like, are you on fire? It's like, make the fire first. Like, okay. And then go market it and sell it and, and share it with the world. But a lot of people, you're not on fire. Right. We're just, we're we're creating from our mind and our ego, and especially with music production, I always, I make a clear distinction. There's a difference between being a producer and being an artist. I like to work with artists, right. Being a producer is, you understand the math and science of how music, music production works. It literally is math and science. Right? And, and now the best proof of that is I can go into fucking AI and. Uh, and give it a couple prompts and it will make a song, right? It, it, it can be made by computers because there's an algorithm and then there's a formula, and it's straight up math and science. That's, that's being a producer, being a dj, being a producer, being an artist is creating from the heart, creating from the soul, right? When you're like, am I, do I actually have some fire inside of me, inside of my chest, inside of my belly, inside of my fucking soul that I wanna bring to the world? And now it's not one or the other. You definitely should also understand the math and the science. Uh, this is a great example of duality. It's like the masculine and the feminine. You know, it's, it's, it's both. It's not one or the other. The symbol of the yin and yang. It's like, yeah, it's, it is. It's the symbol of both of them coming together, working together, cohesively. I think that there's a lot of people that are just being DJs and producers and you're just trying to learn the formula and we're downloading the sample packs and we're learning the techniques. But are you even, are you fucking lit up in the first place? Are you on fire? Do you have something to say in the first place? And this goes into your branding as well. A lot of this is where in my process, a lot of people are struggling with marketing because they're skipping over this really important step, which is branding, which is just like figuring out like, what are you actually all about? What is, you know, on a deeper level, what are you actually trying to say? You don't know how to, you don't, your marketing sucks.'cause you're not saying anything. All you're saying is like, oh, hey, I made a song. Check it out. Please listen to it. Like. Cool. There's a hundred thousand songs being uploaded to Spotify every single day. Right? You gotta have something else to bring to the table to, from a business perspective, just to bring to the marketplace, which is creating your brand. When I work on with people on branding, it's like we gotta go really deep and get to the core of like, who are you? What are you all about? What lights you up? What's your message? Right? What's what's, what's your own personal swag and flavor and tone that literally nobody else has? That's the shit to figure out. If you can figure that out, figure that out in the music, you can figure that that out in your brand. Okay, now you got something to talk about. Now let's go market that shit. But we're skipping over that really important step. This brings me back to our episode that we did on your podcast,'cause we did talk a lot about the marketing and you know, we did go deep into the, it's so sad that people don't. Know how to market because they, they, and I know we promised we weren't gonna talk about marketing, so bear with me for a second because this is important. But, you know, I, I feel so bad for people because they have such a nasty taste of marketing in their mouth. And from what you just said, that it's, from my understanding is that if you take marketing without that fire in the belly. It's sleazy and scammy and nasty. I mean, you think about, it's like what's, what's at the heart of the used car salesman that's just ripping you off? Nothing great. I mean, it's gross, right? It's just nasty. But then what's at the heart of someone that's trying to market their music that they poured their heart and soul into, and it's so uniquely them, and no one else could ever create something like, you know what I mean? It's, it's, it's that, it's that fire. If you don't have that fire, the marketing's just kind of nasty and icky and, but if you have that fire, it, it means so much more. So it really just comes back to that fire still. It, by the way, please do it. That foundational pillar of, of these kind of five pillars of success that I call them of as of mindset, well, it, it touches everything. It's everywhere. You know, your, your mindset is going to affect, you know, your mindset. Lately, I've been also calling it like your, your heart set. You know, your soul set. It's like, it's not just the, the mindset, but yeah, it influences everything. Something I've been talking about lately is like, what? What is the energy that all of it is coming from? Right? And I think there's only two different types of energy. There's the energy of fear and scarcity, and then there's the energy of faith and abundance, right? One of them is expansive, one of them is retractive. And I think for a lot of people, if you actually look at, where's the energy coming from? If you're feeling pressure to make music, you're feeling like, what I see a lot with artists is I'm running outta time. So I feel this pressure that I have to work really, really hard to make this happen. I'm like, okay, well is that, is that energy expansive? And coming from a place of faith of like, I trust the process, I trust the universe. I know that, you know, everything is gonna work out perfectly. Right? And I, and and, and I'm coming from faith. I'm coming from inspiration. I'm coming from love. Or is that energy coming from fear? Right. I'm scared that I'm gonna run outta time. So on the surface, it might look like, okay, I'm grinding really, really hard. Like, okay, well what's the energy like? A lot of people are succeeding that way. They're making it happen, but they're bringing that energy with them. So now you're winning, you're succeeding, and, and take it from me. I'm working with headlining artists that are touring, and it's like, okay, well cool. Now you're touring and now there's more pressure. Now you gotta keep making music and you gotta stay relevant, and you're comparing yourself to everybody else, right? That energy is just it. It's what the whole thing was built on in the first place. So it's not going anywhere. Right. So like on a very deep and basic level, like that's my big thing that I try to get people to shift into is like shift out of fear, shift out of scarcity, and start learning how to operate from abundance, right? That's, that's the inside out game. I gotta find that place inside of myself where I wake up every day and I feel like I am really, I'm, I'm, I'm in a safe place. I feel like my job and my duty is simply to create, to express myself, to share my gifts, to allow the creative energy of the universe to work through me. I trust the process. I'm not coming at this with stress and scarcity and concern and worry that's gonna pollute anything I ever make. I even noticed for it, noticed it with myself. If I have the stress of I need to make content so that I can get new clients, so that I can fill my program, so that I can make money, so that I can pay my rent, it's like, uh, it's all coming from a. Ugly place. And that's gonna be felt in the content that I make, that energy is gonna be felt. And so I have to catch myself sometimes, even if I'm on a call with a client of like, oh, do I, do I have the energy of desperation? Like, oh, I need, I need to sign this person. I, you know, I need to get something from this versus, oh no, like I'm completely unattached. I'm like, yo, if you want to, if you wanna get down and you wanna have some fun, then you want to grow and you want to expand and you want to play and like, cool. Like let's get it. Like my energy is so different when I'm unattached. And guess what? I signed 10 times the amount of clients when I'm coming from that place. And usually if you're creating from that place, creating from the place of, I'm unattached, I'm not chasing labels, I'm not comparing myself to other people. I'm not like trying to chase other people's success. I'm just like, no, I'm just, I'm just making music.'cause I love making music and I'm having a lot of fun doing it. Usually you're gonna see better results doing that, and definitely you're gonna enjoy the process a lot more. I am extremely interested in knowing more about this fear energy or this faith energy. So those are the two terms you used, right? If we, if we look at the totality of the people that you have, what do you say, life coached? Like mentored what? What do you Life coached? Yeah. If you look at the totality of those people, and this ranges like you were saying, everyone from, you know, just beginning to headlining, touring artists, what is probably the most common fear energy that is evoked that's like, oh, yep, there it is. We're in its ugly head. Again, there's, there's that one thing that always shows up, the big one is the fear of running out of time. That's a really big one. Like fear shows up in so many different ways, but that's a big one that I see of like, oh, the clock is ticking. I'm gonna run outta time. I'm getting older. Right, every and, and comparing yourself to other people, um, just generally there's just the fear of failure, right? Like, what if I don't make this happen? Um, or what if I put all of this time into this passion, this dream and this career and it, and, and then it doesn't happen? It's like the fear of, yeah, not only just failing at it, but then the fear of like, what do I do then? You know, I, I didn't pursue a normal path. I didn't pursue a, a normal career. Uh, there's the fear of not having money, right? The fear of, of putting all this time and this energy in and having nothing to show for it, like financially, right? And, and losing that time where you could have maybe been building a quote unquote normal career. So when that fear is there, it's, it's affecting, I. Every, you know, it's, it's leaking into the process and it's going to affect how you show up, right? It's gonna affect how you create. So, and, and again, it's like life isn't about being fearless. Also, like fear is a part of life. It's also scary to go for the, to go for it, you know? It's, and, and fear, I think is a, it's actually a beautiful thing. I think fear is the compass that's pointing you where to go rather than what to avoid. And fear is always gonna be there at every level. It's about having courage though, really. Fear is there and it's just what do you do with it? Do I let that fear stop me from pursuing my dreams and my goals? Or do I use that fear as a compass and I lean into it? And in which case, that just means my courage needs to be bigger than my fear. I just live a courageous life and I do the things that I'm, that I'm scared of. Right? So yeah, the fear might be there, but it's like, okay, we can't let that fear influence how we show up. Right? Like, okay, I see you, I recognize you. Yeah. This is, this is scary. Yeah. There's some fears of, you know, I have fear of rejection, I have fear of failure. I have fear of losing it all. Like, okay, cool. It's there and I'm not gonna let you get in my way though, uh, of, of sharing my gifts and, and being a creator and being an artist and, um, yeah, pursuing what lights me up. Quick side quest with this idea. Okay. And we'll get back to it. Um, I know you really wanted to talk about authenticity, which I'm very excited to hear about. I promise that's coming. Sure, patience. Um, but it's a quick side quest with this. I believe we even talked about this on the last episode that we did on my podcast years ago. I would love to know your thoughts about this, this concept. So we that speak English, have kind of painted ourself into a corner where there's these two overarching large concepts that we force into one word. And that word is fear. Because, for example, if I brought you to my house, Nick and I set a box of black widows in front of me and I said, Nick, I need you to put your hand in this box of black widows. You would feel what we'd call fear. And I'm assuming you wouldn't say, well, this, you need to lead into this. Of course you need to lead into it and put your hand in the box. Right. Um, you know, that's, that's ridiculous. Um, you know, so we have this thing that keeps us alive, this fear, if you, if we wanna call it that, they call it that, we call it alive. But then there's clearly the other thing. If, if we came to, if you came to my house. And you were, you know, you were terrified to go hiking with me. It's fine, Nick. I'll keep you safe. Don't worry. But you were terrified to go hiking with me. You know, that's clearly an appropriate time to lean into that fear. It's like, no, come on man. Like, we'll have a good time. It's good for you to get out and see stuff. So I, you know, we kind of have these two overarching categories that we kind of force into the same word. I just, I want to paint this clearly because. You know, I, I've heard people bring up that argument before, but it's like, well, does that mean I need to, you know, like live on the edge, you know, to, because I'm afraid to go live on Skid Road. Does that mean I need to lean into it and do it? And so that's why we, as English speakers kind of painted us, we should really have two different words. One that's like, you know, this thing that's keeping you alive and this thing that's keeping you from thriving. Right? But we both use fear to do that. Is that, you see what I'm saying? Am I, yeah. Am I just rambling? A thousand percent. You know, a lot of people say that our. You know that that self-protective part of ourself that has fear, that is, you know, also what we would also call our ego. Just like there's this part of our brain that is constantly analyzing and judging everything and basically determining is this dangerous or not? And people hypothesize that. This comes from thousands of years ago when we were like. Caveman, you know, like living out in the, in the wild where it's like, yo, there were saber tooth tigers and shit, and we had to be on alert. So we have this part of our brain, this primal, primitive part of our brain where we're looking out for danger and it's to ensure our survival. But now here we are years later, thousands of years later, we, we don't live in those same conditions, but we still have that same evolutionary biological part of ourselves. Like we're constantly looking out for danger. So it's not a saber-tooth tiger anymore, but now it's putting out a piece of content and having everybody laugh at you or putting out music and, uh, you know, having nothing happen, right? Or, or, or reaching out to a record label and, and being rejected. So it's not necessarily the fear of physical danger, but it's the fear of psychological and emotional danger. And so we have to be able to distinguish that. Right. And I love that you brought up, should we live on our edge? My answer is yes, but your edge is different. Everybody, everybody's edge is different. Going and living on skid row that might be edgy, really edgy. For some people that might be so far out of your edge that it would break you. It's not your edge. That's like be way beyond your edge. And for some people that wouldn't even be an edge at all. They're like, yeah, sure, I'll go do it. So for each of us, I think it is important that we, that we, uh, to live and, and I don't know, like you determine what kind of fucking life you wanna live. If you wanna live. A boring life where you never do anything that, that excites you or scares you. Okay, cool. I don't think that that's how we were designed though. I don't think that that's, that's what, you know, our creator, whatever that may be, you know, how we were designed, I think that we were designed to have this, uh, impulse inside of us that wants ex, it wants to expand, it wants expansion. And, and, and for us to expand, we have to keep finding out where our edge is. Right. So, you know, the things that are edgy for me right now, I was just sharing with you before, I'm excited.'cause in my business I just finally am doing a ma a free masterclass. And I like set up an email sequence where it does like automated emails that has terrified me before. I've been like so scared of like emails and technology, like I've claimed. I'm like, I'm not a. Uh, techno technological person, you know, that's been my thing. And, and, and, but you, you crush it at that. You're like, dude, like this is, this is my zone of genius. I'm so good at this. You know, so my edge isn't your edge. Right? And, and so I think it's important that we all kind of find out where that is. The problem is a lot of times where we have conditioned ourselves so much to let the fear take over that we're just playing a really small game. You know, one of the biggest examples I use all the time is like, artists just reaching out, like reaching out to record labels as what I call just shooting your shot. Like hit up your favorite artist, go hit up a, a, a stranger, you know, somebody in the industry ask to take'em to lunch, ask, you know, like, see, like put yourself out there. Uh, a lot of people are scared of that. And then you don't realize how many opportunities you're actually missing out on. Right? Or what might be an edge is, you know, like Miami Music Week is happening right now. Maybe your edge is like, go buy a plane ticket and fly to Miami Music Week by yourself and just go out and party and network with people that, that might be super edgy for people. But you know what? That might be the edge to step up to that allows your life to 10 x. You know what I mean? That, that, that not only on the external world, allows you to develop relationships and connections and helps move your career forward, but also helps you become a different kind of person. The amount of expansion in your internal world where you're like, I just pushed myself a little bit. I stepped into that edgy. You know what, I became a little bit more confident through that. I believe in myself a little bit more now. It's like I actually, I actually feel like I'm capable of, of even more. If we're not challenging ourself and stepping to our edge, we never know what we're actually capable of. That is great, and I'm really glad you, you went into describing the physiological response that happens, right? Because that's, this is so nerdy, Nick. This is so nerdy. Let's, let's get fucking nerdy, bro, with, uh, with all the, the. The therapy that I've went to and the, the psychologists that I've went to, they have explained the actual process and the part of the brain that lights up, it's called the amygdala, right? The amygdala is what is responsible for keeping you alive, right? That's if I gave you the box of the black widows and told you to stick your hand in it, it would be your amygdala. I actually have two, so it's amygdala I or amygdalas, I don't know. Anyways, so one of those, both of'em, some of them. Somewhere we'll light up and say, don't you do that, that's gonna kill you. And they are doing their job. They're doing their fan, they're doing fantastic. You know, the amygdala is the thing that stops you from going 180 down Main Street. It's don't touch the hot stove, you know? Yeah, exactly. And so you need that. But you're absolutely right that in our modern day and age, the amygdala, for lack of a better term, becomes restless, right? And it sees threats where threats are like threats of your life, where those threats who don't exist, like in public speaking, reaching out to, uh, the, the, the, the record label, reaching out to your favorite artists to see if they want to do something, whatever, right? Starting a podcast, whatever. You're releasing your music, the amygdala goes crazy. And those are the feelings of fear that most people are having. They feel like their life is threatening, even though they may not be able to put words to it, right? They feel that that internal stress, their heart starts to, to beat faster and, you know, anyways. And so I love that we can bring that up and be like, listen, there are real life threats. And the amygdala is doing their job, but probably most of the time it's probably just screwing up. And you have to be able to say, my life is not in in danger. It's okay. I can lean into this fear a thousand percent. Because you know, if I think about, think about every big artist that you see that's out there, that you look up to, they're living the dream. They're touring, they're doing all of it. There are. Probably a thousand other artists that could be doing that, but are sabotaging themself in some way because they have, you know, the, that internal fear, the, the stress, the anxiety, the whatever it may be is stopping them and blocking them from putting themselves out there in that way. And, and that's like, it's like, it's like the invisible parking break. That's what I'm always looking with people.'cause here's the thing, I believe that every single one of us comes to this planet with the same amount of potential. Right? Like the minute that you were born, like how much you, you, you, you're, you have five kids or about two, right? Like you have, you're, you're, you're creating a farm of children over there when they come on, like the minute that they come out. How much potential would you say that that. That human has with a, with a completely blank fresh slate and canvas ahead of them. I would say maybe it's cop out, but I would say infinite, you know, like there's, there's no cap on their potential that I'm aware of. And if there is, it's so large that it's basically infinite. Yeah. Yeah. And it's certainly, you know, there's different opportunity. You're b burn born into a certain country and a certain house, certain situation, certain resources. Yeah, for sure. But as like a, as a spirit, you know, the actual human potential.'cause we also hear stories of people that were born with nothing that go on to become, you know, like super successful, wildly huge leaders and world changers, right? So the potential of the human spirit, I would say, for all of us when we come here is like, yeah, it's infinite. Right. And then at some point, somewhere along the way, we start to get conditioned. We, we know, we learn how to, we start learning how to walk, how to talk, we, how to think, how to believe, right. Our, our, our family and school and religion and life opera life experiences, they, it just starts to conti condition us and we start to create a self-image of what we think actually is possible for ourselves. Right? And I think the artists that go on to, one of the big things that a lot of artists have that really are at that level is they, they just believe in their potential, right? Tony Robbins has this thing called the success Cycle, where, you know, basically looking at, you know. How much potential do you believe that you have? If you believe that you have an infinite amount of potential, then you will show up and you will take certain actions, right? You, you will, you will take different actions than somebody who thinks that they only have a small amount of potential, right? Because if you have a small amount of potential, well then, okay, well I'm a, I'm, I'm only gonna show up, you know, and kind of put in half the amount of like effort and energy, right? And, and then. When I put in half effort and energy, I get kind of half-ass results, and those half-ass results start to reinforce that. Like, see, I told you I, I, this is, this is all I'm capable of. But it also works the other way. If you really believe in yourself, you believe that you have infinite potential and you start, you just take massive action. And like you, you wake up and you make music and you grind and like you, and you do it from a place of belief, right? You go out and you shoot your shot and you build your bi like you, you act that way. You start to get different results and then those results, you start to get, you know, really great results. Those great results then reinforce your, your, your belief about yourself. I think I actually can do this. I actually do believe this is possible. All right. Um, and, and this is where I also bring up like who you sur who you surround yourself with is so important too. I think this is why Icon Collective was, was so successful in a lot of ways. Because you start, you start surrounding yourself with people that are really ambitious and they do believe in themselves and they do work really hard and they start getting results. It, it is possible. My friend is doing it. Look, if they did it, I think I could do it too. It's like a lot of this has to do with belief.'cause when you believe in yourself, you just show up in a different way. But if you're, if you're not seeing it, if you, if you're hanging out with like, nobody's really popping off, nobody's getting after it. Everybody's like, you know, you're, you, you start doubting and complaining. I mean, I see so much shit about people complaining about the music industry. It's not the music industry. It's you. It's you and your mindset and your attitude and your energy. Because the industry is the same for everybody. And there's a lot of people that are killing it. There's a lot of people that are succeeding and they're the ones that they believe in themselves and most likely, they also probably aren't sitting around complaining either, right? So. Clean it up, y'all. I'm, I'm starting to, to believe that, you know, the term mindset is synonymous with, with the therapeutic term, which we call mindfulness, right? Which is just being aware of what are you feeling? Why are you feeling, what triggered you to feel that way? What are you going to do with those feelings? I, I'm assuming the, the antithesis or the opposite of what we're talking about, the mortal enemy of what we're talking about is. Not taking account of what you are feeling and not taking account of the thoughts that you are thinking and just allowing them to run wild. You know, you feel something, you don't know where you felt it, you don't know what triggered that feeling. You don't know if you like it, if you don't like it, whatever you, you're, you're almost like just hopping into a lizard brain and you're just kind of like going with whatever electric impulse that is happening inside of your brain. Am I, am I on the right path with understanding what you're saying? Yeah. You know, I, what I talk about in, um, I have a group coaching program that I do, and one of the weeks we really get into what I call mental programming. Like your mind is, is the computer system of your body, right? It's just a, it's just a part of your body. You have your heart, you have your brain. I think you also have a spirit and a soul. You know, we have, we have all these different parts of ourselves and your, your, your mind is just one of them, but your mind is like the central computer operating system and now. Like I was saying, when we start our life, we have this blank slate of infinite potential. The program hasn't been written yet, but then it starts to get programmed. And we first things, first, we start to be programmed by our parents or whoever raised us. We start to be programmed by culture and society and our neighborhood and, and the education system. Let's talk about the education system that just tells you to sit there in a chair and raise your hand when you gotta pee. And it's like, it, it, it drills us to think a certain way. And now also, you know, even, even today though, we're being con, we're being programmed all the time. We're being programmed by social media. Uh, every time you're just doom scrolling or you're watching the news, you are being programmed. And so a big part of my process is to wake up, right? That's the mindless autopilot of, I've just been being programmed. I've been allowing my mind to be programmed. There's this moment where it's like. You know, Neo taking the, the, the red pill and the matrix, right? Where just like you wake up and like, and got to realize like, wait a minute, I can start taking control of that programming. I have been unconsciously programmed, my mind has been unconsciously programmed for probably most of my life, right? And so. Now, like when I kind of wake up to out of the matrix, right, or into the matrix and kind of start to, uh, recognize the power that I actually have, the potential that I actually have, I get to re, I get to start reprogramming this computer system. Is this thing working? Like to the, the best way that it could be. I mean, I've been, I've been studying and practicing, practicing this for years and I still have an inefficient operating system in a lot of areas. Taking control of that programming is so important. Back to one thing I was saying, like, who are you hanging out with? Are you, are you hanging out with people that are, that are negative and pessimistic and don't believe in themselves or that are complaining? I'm like, I have zero tolerance for any of that. That does not exist in my life.'cause I'm very intentional with what kind of programming I expose myself to. Right. And I, I was very lucky at, you know, 21, 22 years old to get introduced to like, personal development books. So I started programming my mind, you know, reading these books are really having an effect on me. Like, let me, I, and I just started devouring them. I would drive around town listening to Tony Robbins. I remember spending$300 and uh, which was a lot of money for me at that time. And I bought a Tony Robbins CD program and I was listening to. CDs driving around Hollywood, you know, in my early twenties. But I'm like, I was listening to that for hours, driving around that, that it completely reprogrammed my brain, right? And so now I just, I think differently and because I think differently, I act differently. And because I act differently, I get different results. And when I get those different results, it reinforces the belief of not only what I'm capable of, but also just like, yeah, what I'm all about and why I'm here. So we really get to take control of our programming, and I think especially in the sort of social media age, and especially as an artist where we're probably spending so much time creating content, putting stuff out, that's something I've been thinking about a lot as well. Just how consumed the whole artist world is in, I don't know, just making content and, and consuming content rather than actually just making art. You know? That's, I think it's putting, I think it's putting out a lot of people's fires. Has there been a concept that has been brought up in your coaching sessions? Where, you know, I'm assuming there are a lot of things that are brought up where it's more or less a variation of things that you've dealt with before. You're like, oh yeah, this is just, this is just the newest iteration of, you know, people being afraid of time running outta time, or this is the newest iteration of people being afraid of being judged or whatever. But is there been a fear or something that has been brought up where you're just like, oh, I've never thought about that. That is so interesting. That is, whoa, I don't even know how to address that fear. Like, is there, has there been something unique like that that's come up? Honestly, honestly, no, man, because I think like when you peel away the layers. It is, it is just the same thing, honestly. It's like it on like the most basic level. It's, it's back to that two, it's like the fork in the road of like, where's the energy coming from? Right. Whatever their problem is, it's it, whatever the challenge is, it's. It's rooted probably in some form of fear. You know, when when we pull the, the layers all the way back, like, I can't say, nothing comes to mind where I'm like,'cause also whether it's an artist and like, I haven't only worked with artists, you know, I've worked with, I used to work with just like everybody. And it's like, whether you're an artist, you know, chasing, chasing your dream, or you're a real estate agent, building your business, or you're a mom running the house, it's like on the surface there's what seems to be the challenge, the issue, the problem. But underneath it we're, we're just, we're all human. We're all human dealing with like thoughts and emotions. We have dreams, we have desires, we also have challenges and pain that we're trying to get out of. And that's all it boils down to. And it shows up in different ways, but it all ultimately boils down to like what's happening inside of us with our, our thoughts and our emotions and making sure that that's getting in alignment. Getting somebody from being in a place of fear and retraction to getting them into a place of, of love and expansion and faith. Then like, that's like the core of it. And on the surface it can look a thousand different ways. But yeah, there's nothing I've seen that's like really blown my mind. I'm just like, yeah, you're just another human trying to navigate through some human shit right now. Have you ever seen, um, it, it was probably one of the most enlightening mind blowing videos I've ever seen that that explains the concept that we're talking about. Have you, have you ever watched Minefield with a Vsso? Have you ever seen that? No. No. What's that? So it's, it's, it's a series that, um, have you ever watched Vsso, you know, like Michael from Vsso, right? You're gonna this get blow, I'll send you a link later. Is this like a YouTube channel? It's a YouTube channel. And there was this very highly produced, um, video that he did all about fear, the way that he frames it. Right is that there is what's called, if I remember this correctly, I apologize if I don't, but it's, it's called your Death web and you have your amygdala spider. And so anytime you are afraid of something, the spider will connect it back to this main core thing that you're afraid of that will let you die. So for example, uh, you say you're like running outta time. Right. Well, if you're running outta time, the amygdala spider sees that and it connects it to you, um, eventually dying or being alone or whatever, which ties back to obviously death or I am a, I'm afraid to speak in public. Well, that ties back to being isolated because if I screw up, people aren't gonna wanna talk to me, and if I'm isolated, I'm gonna die. And so basically it shows how everything ties back to dying, right? Yeah. To dying. And, and also the, the, the big ones is like, yeah, the, the fear of being alone and the fear of being not enough. Which I guess is also, yeah, the fear of being not enough might lead to you being alone. It's like, yeah, the fear, I think it's the fear, the fear of death and the fear of being alone. It's like those are the two, when you really, really break it down, there's all the, there's, he has like, I, I think there's like 10 or 12 different core things that always lead back to death. So like I being isolated, um, being sick, being, uh, I can't remember all of them. Right. But yeah, so that, that's why I asked that question of, oh, I wonder if there's ever been something that someone has said, and if we could tie that back in the, in the, in the death web. Anyways, I'll send it to you. It's super interesting. That may be very helpful for your work to be able to be like, oh yeah, it's just that person tying it back to whatever. You see what I'm saying? As I become a better coach and I'm able to take people deeper, you know, that I, I'm sure I will uncover some even more, you know, just deep mind blowing stuff that's in there for sure. So that's inspiring. Please send that to me. So we have went deep for the last however many 30 minutes about the mindset, why it's important. You know, we, we came up with the analogy of the roaring fire in the inner hearth, right? And the smoke that comes up from there. One of the biggest concepts, one of the biggest, uh, we'll say one of the biggest main ingredients to this mindset is this concept of authenticity. I don't know how you can even explore the mindset or the inner hear unless you. Understand the, the main ingredient of authenticity, and this is something that you really wanna dive into. It's something I really wanna dive into. So for those, I mean, there are several different definitions for authenticity. So what is the next Sherwin definition of authenticity in the context of what we've been talking about? Yeah. I think that you are one out of 8 billion people in the world, and there's only you, there is no other Wyatt Troy. Right? Like you are the only one, I'm the only Nick t Tru Wink, straight up, you know? And we get lost and out of alignment with ourselves by paying so much attention to what everybody else is doing, right? There's so many trends. There's certain, certain clicks and labels and sounds and lanes and, and ultimately, I. We all want to be successful. So we're looking at, well, who is successful that's out there and what did they do to get there? And so it's one thing to take, you know, inspiration and to learn from others. But the danger is that it oftentimes can pull us off course with actually really being in our own lane. It's like I am living my life, walking my path, and the more I pay attention to what others are doing, the easier it is for me to get off. Of course, of like. What's, what's my path, right? The What's, what's the Nick Tink path? The Nick Tink journey. And, and it's so funny, like being kind of in the, in the coaching space, in the education space where like we're teaching people like, well, this is how to do it. This is how to do something. And it's like, well, this is one way that some people have done it right. And it's not the only way to do it at all, especially in, in like climbing the ladder of success of the music industry and everyone wants to know how to, how to make it right. Well, I don't know, like, yeah, there's certain things that have been done, certain people have done it in, in certain ways, but also like you get to pave your own path. You know, and so I think there's the authenticity of just your, your journey as well, but also especially for music producers and creating art, it's like you get to create your own, you know, there's, there's, the way I describe it is it's almost like a, there's like a radio dial, right? Where, you know, like you are authentically tuned to a certain dial. Like your, your actual channel is 1 0 1 0.7. Uh, but a lot of times when I'm listening to something that I like and I'm like, oh, I really like what's happening on 95.3. And so I'm trying to make 95.3.'cause I really like it. I'm inspired by it, but my natural tuning is actually something else. So rather than looking at what everybody else is doing, following what, what other people are, even what you're inspired by, it's like. Figure out like what your thing is, you know, what actually lights you up? What feels, and I think, I think, I think the, the compass to follow is like, what do you have a lot of fun making? Maybe I like listening to this. Maybe I like this, this style or this scene, but like what actually lights me up when I'm in the creative process? Right. Um, I'm going through that right now where I'm looking at like, okay, with my coaching, I'm like, there's a lot of demand for people that want help with marketing and they want help with branding. They, they want help with the music business stuff. And, and I could chase that. I can make a lot of money doing that. I have paying attention to where's the energetic alignment within myself. I'm like, do I actually really love this? Does it light me up? Like what's the stuff that lights me? The. And rather than chasing, okay, here's, here's the money, here's the trends, here's the opportunity. Let me really start to figure out like, what, what lights me up the most, what feels the best? Like that's my, that's my authentic lane, you know? So I'm still even currently in the process of really figuring that, that out. Like, what's the stuff I really, the type of people I love working with, the type of work I really love to do, the type of gift that I feel like I can bring to the world, that I can bring to the marketplace that literally only Nick TRO can do. You know what I mean? Like that's like, that's the real artist's journey is like dead mouse was not like listening to everybody else and being like, how should I get on like a, a, a certain label, you know, what kind of label and how can I be the most successful? He's just like, this is what the, I like doing, you know, all these innovators that, that a lot of people look up to, you know, Skrillex for everybody in the bass music scene. Like always, you know, he loves Skrillex. Okay. Skrillex was not listening to anybody else and being like, oh, I should do that. Right? He was just in the studio doing what lit him up, and that's why he was so successful. And so that's, that's like the really hard, I think, kind of fork in the road, you know, is there's weird paradox of like, all right, I want to be successful and this is what people are doing to be successful. So let me kind of follow that. Um, while at the same time, what's probably gonna make you the most successful is to not do any of that and follow your own. Your own authentic lane and path to be at that, at that really like True, I think high level of, of leadership and innovation, if we continue your analogy of the, of the radio stations, right? Applying what we've been talking about with the mindset, that to me that looks like, you know, you said you were on what, 1 0 1 0.7 and you're listening over on 97.9 and not, you know, and you, you could be enjoying that. You could be, oh, this is great. I love listening to this. I even wanna make stuff like this, let's say. But I think where most people get, I. Lost in the weeds is then they be, they are 1 0 1 0.7 and they try to become 97.9, right? Where I think the mindset way would be what is working over on 97.9 and what resonates with me for me to bring back to 1 0 1 0.7 to, to integrate into what I am doing. And, and so you're not becoming them, you're not even copying them. You are seeing what works, and then you're bringing it back and putting it through your own. You know, throwing your own spice into it, creating your own version of what it, or, or applying. So am I on the right path? Am I, yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally. It's just, you know, just getting, getting inspired by what's being done. I also think like, like what's so important, especially as an artist, is go listen to a bunch of other stations, right? Don't just listen to that other one, and don't just listen to the one that like, you always like really like listening to, like there's so much flavor and color and sound and. Sensory fun things to play with. There's so much adventure. There's so much exploration. This is why people love traveling the world. But we usually are like so zeroed in on like this one thing. You know, I think even, even for myself, this is, this is what was coming up for me recently. I was sharing, like, I was having some, some breakthroughs, uh, around yeah, like I'm, I'm really zeroed in on like the EDM niche, uh, because that's really great business advice of like, niche down, you know, like really get super clear on like who your market is like, and as I get more tuned into like what I enjoy, I'm kind of like, man, there's a lot of other flavors out there. There's a lot of other artists I could be working with that aren't just EDM artists. You know, like maybe I, maybe I wanna sign some rappers. I'm actually working with a metal band right now. It's like, oh, let me go like. Play with some other flavors and see what's out there. See where the inspiration is.'cause I, I think for me, it all really boils down to, back to that question, what lights you up? You know, what, what gets you inspired? Um, but yeah, certainly it's like cool, like let's learn, let's learn some, some techniques and some stuff from what other people are doing. Cool. It's a big difference between borrowing stuff or getting inspired versus straight up just like emulating and copying, which, you know, there's just a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of that happening. So what do you feel like is a. Real life, tangible example of someone not being authentic. Like what is a classic example of these people that you're coaching where you're like, oh, yep, that's a classic, um, example of someone not living in authenticity. I think the easiest thing to recognize is just when you know, you hear music and you're like, yeah, I've heard this song a million times. You know, like there's nothing, you know, unique about it. Right. And, and, and it, and it's hard. It's like how do you kind of find your own, you know, your own unique sound. But, um, yeah, I mean, you hear a lot in music and I don't want to, you know, I, I, I'll be the last one to talk shit about anybody's music.'cause I'm, I'm not even making music, so who the fuck am I to say anything about that? Also, you know, you can just see it in people's marketing as well. Like, there's so many trends. You know, when you're, when you're like, that's, I think that's one of the biggest ones is you just see people hopping on trends of like, oh, this is, you know, what? Is going viral right now. So like, let me start dancing in my video, or let me do this or let me do that. And it's like the whole intention from where it's coming from is, I am, I'm chasing success, right? Like, oh, that worked for somebody else. Okay, let me jump on this trend. Let me try to do that. Uh, rather than coming from a place of actual, like just self-expression, right? Maybe like, maybe if the trend is really cool and you're like, I'm excited to try that. This feels really, really fun. And, and there's an energy of excitement that's very different than what I see a lot are people are like chasing trends and then they're like. They don't even care about it or they don't even want to, they're like, oh, like I have, I have to make content. I have to be doing this. And the energy behind it is like, well, you're not, it's not ent, it's not authentic to you. You know, if, if there's that feeling of incongruency, that feeling of resistance, then there's, then that's not authenticity. That's, you just like begrudgingly chasing trends.'cause you think you have to do that to be successful. You know, I think that's the biggest thing a lot of artists are really going through. Oh, I have to play the content game. It's like, well, what's actually authentic to you? You, I mean, yeah, you, you probably should because it's a great way to build a fan base. But if you feel like you have to, then there's some sort of misalignment there because you're not actually tapped into like, what's your authentic way to express yourself? You know? So social media is a really, really big one to unpack. Um, and just creating content as well. You brought up a memory that I haven't thought about for a while, but have you ever done much research into, or, or heard. About the concept of true community versus pseudo community. You ever done that? No. This is exactly with what you're talking about right now. So, pseudo community is actually very dangerous. And so we, we, as individuals, and actually going back to the death web that we were talking about, we want a community, we want a community for many different things. Not only just because we don't wanna be isolated, um, but we want, you know, friendship. We want, you know, fulfillment. We want to be able to have meaningful relationships, meaningful conversations, and do meaningful activities and so on and so forth. And so a real community is. There are people, whether it's you and me, just as friends, Nick, or it's, uh, us as a, a music production community or an EDM community or whatever. A real community is a community where people can be authentic, they can show up, they can disagree, they can agree, they can uh, they can bring up counter arguments. They can reinforce good arguments, they can do whatever. You know what I mean? It, you are not just. Um, you're not being a pseudo community and a pseudo community is the people in the community who absolutely disagree. They're absolutely hate certain things that are going on. They're not showing up as their real selves, but yet they kind of just nod their heads and go along with the status quo and pretend like everything's okay. And so I feel like a lot of what you're describing is a lot of the members of the music production community, uh, singer songwriter, community, EDM community, so on and so forth, showing up as the pseudo community, they see these trends. They're not showing up as their true selves. They see this thing and they don't wanna rock the boat. And so they're like, well, it's working and people are, you know, it's, people are getting blown up from that. So they kind of just nod their heads and they're like, okay, I'll do it. And, and they'll kind of move on. We're showing up as a true community would be, you know, like if you see a turn that you don't like, you can say it, you can make fun of it. You know, you can, you could create your own version of it. You could, you know, as long as you're showing up as yourself and as your real authentic self, then that's totally fine. Is that, do you agree with what I'm saying? You bring up a really good point. I think as an artist. Also part of the, you know, the five pillars to success, uh, from my perspective is also creating a brand. Authenticity may or may not be part of your brand, right? Like, there your brand is an extension of you. It's not necessarily who you are. So sometimes you might have a personal brand where, you know, I, I am the brand, right? Like my online brand is Nick Swin. Um, authenticity is one of my brand pillars. It's one of my brand values. So it goes in there. I think when you are being like a personal brand, there is a lot more space and, and even probably desire for authenticity, but also at the same time, your artist brand. Doesn't have to necessarily be you. It can be almost like a character. It's an extension of yourself. It's a story that's being told. So, um, so yes. I I like you're bringing up, actually, um, back to the definition of authenticity. You're reminding me of a definition that I was introduced to that I think is, is really what you're hitting on, which is, um, true authenticity would be to actually be real and show the whole thing, right? I'm not, if I only show you. The nice cool version of myself. I'm not actually really being authentic. This is something I had to embrace, uh, in my own personal journey where I was kind of like just a, a nice guy and I always got along with everybody and I, and I never rocked the boat. And I was like, but wait a minute. There's this whole other part of myself that's like, yeah, I get mad sometimes I get depressed, sometimes I get pissed off. Sometimes. There's this whole other almost shadow side of myself that I was disconnected from. That authenticity really means that I'm, I am the full spectrum. I'm in touch with the full, the, that, that full. Whole spectrum of who I am, and if I'm really being authentic, then it's kind of like, yo, if I'm in a bad mood someday and you encounter me when I'm in a in a bad mood and I'm being authentic, then I'm gonna like let you know I'm in a bad mood and I'm not gonna pretend. Right. I think if, you know, we, we, yeah, definitely in the, in the industry, we're oftentimes wearing masks where it's like, okay, cool, I'm just gotta be cool with everybody all the time, and I'm pretending that I'm, you know, a certain type of way. Uh, not everybody does, but there is a lot of that. There's a lot of ego, there's a lot of Ask Ussing, there's a lot of, you know, it's, it's in the entertainment industry, you know, like there's a lot of that there. Um, and at the same time, when it comes to having a brand, you know, there's a difference between your public facing artist brand and then who you are as an actual person and your personal relationships and how you show up. Hopefully on the personal side, you do show up authentically, but also at the same time as, as an artist with a brand, you don't have to show. Your fans all, everything, all the time and, and Rock the Boat or like your brand, you know, like Marshmallow is one of the biggest fucking EDM brands in the world. I wouldn't, you know, there's, there's piece, there's parts, you know, the, the brand fits in a box where it's like, you know, there's gonna be a lot of stuff. That, that that actual human behind the brand doesn't show, you know, I mean, literally it's a masked brand, but it's like the brand also stands for like community and connectedness and it's very positive and very joyful, you know, so it's like that's what goes in the brand and there's certain things that don't and, and that's okay. That's actually really great branding. So some, sometimes you don't want to, you don't want to be authentic with your artist brand, you know, if you're having a bad day, you don't need to go out there and, and share all your, all your personal dirty laundry with all of your fans all the time. It brings up a much bigger concept that frankly I don't even know how to begin to address. Right. Which is, we can agree that authenticity is a main ingredient into this, into this mindset that we've been talking about, and how much of a main ingredient is, you know. That, that is not only up for debate, but it's up for debate on a daily basis. It's up for debate depending on your brand. It depends on where you're at in your brand. It depends on where you're at personally. And it, there's so many variables and so it's so hard to quantify what true authenticity really is and what it should be and what it shouldn't be. And you see what I'm saying? Like this is a, this is such a much bigger brain conversation than, than I intended to, but it's not. Yeah, yeah. We're, we're, we're fucking deep down the rabbit hole right now. Yeah. It's not, it's not black and white. I mean, I think, you know, initially the conversation around authenticity was just like, for me, in a big way of just like boiling down to like, are you. Just kind of chasing trends and chasing sounds and chasing success versus are you actually, you know, as an artist really expressing what feels real and what feels true for you, you know, especially in the studio with your music. Um, you know, I, I think, uh, yeah, it's hard man. It's, it's, it's hard'cause it is a business and there is a truth about marketing. You know, I think what's true for a lot of artists is they also, you know, like making different styles of music, but also putting out a bunch of different styles of music might not be the best thing for your business. It might make more sense to just like only put out a certain style because that's what your brand is and, and that's who your specific market is, that your marketing. So yeah, again, there's there, there's no right or wrong way. Um, but I think, you know, back to. The fire as long as whatever the, whatever you're doing, you're doing it with, with some fire, and you're keeping that fire lit and you're, you're, you're staying passionate, you're staying excited. I think it is also part of a, an artist's job to push the boundaries a little bit. You know, it's like, okay, maybe, maybe this is a little outside of my brand, but let me not be scared of that. This is who I am, this is what I'm inspired by. This is what I'm, what I'm excited about. Artists sometimes are playing it maybe a little bit too safe, you know, where if there's something on your heart and your soul that you wanna share and you want to express, whether that's musically or whether that's through your, your brand and your content, I say, fucking go for it. We need more of that. Do you know the rapper, um, nf you ever listened to NF before? Oh, dude. Love him. Okay. He's sick. Okay. Yeah, he's so good. Amazing. Do you know the song Mansion? You listen to that song? Mm, I'm not sure off the top of my head. Okay. So, so it's one of his older ones. But this, this completely applies to what we are talking about. So in the song Mansion, NF talks about his mental mansion and how there are rooms that you know are absolutely destroyed inside of his mental mansion because of, you know, horrible, traumatic events that have happened. There's, there's rooms that he makes all pretty, and that's where he brings his guests in and so on and so forth. And where I'm going with this is authenticity. To me, if we're looking at this, the analogy of the, of the mental mansion is that you are being open and honest about what is in the mansion. You are not telling people, oh, hey, I have a basketball court in the basement, when really you hate basketball. Right? You are, you are just telling that to, to, to impress other people or whatever. Or you're saying, no, there's nothing wrong with my mansion, when really you have cockroach infested walls in one part of the house and so and so forth. Right? But it's also, so that's. The one end is you are lying about what's inside the mansion, which would be, you are absolutely not being authentic. You are, you are lying about it. You're just trying to, people please. You don't want people to judge about it. But then there's the other end of the spectrum, which is there are parts in your mansion that are so sacred that only a select amount of people can enter into those rooms. And you're honest about those rooms. You know, like, you're, like, those are, those are off limit rooms. Those are for, you know, those are for my, my people, or those are for very select individuals that I allow into those rooms. But. You see what I'm saying? Like, you, you, you acknowledge them, but that doesn't mean you need to let everyone in them. And that's a part of authenticity too. I think that's what you were saying, which we know that marshmallow is a real person. We know that he has insecurities and fears and regrets and so on and so forth, but is he airing those out? No, but we know it exists. You see what I'm saying? And, and, but it would be Una inauthentic, inauthentic, inauthentic. In inauthentic for marshmallow to say, there's no sacred room in my house. That doesn't exist. All the rooms are open. You know that, that'd be a lie. And that's, that's not true. Do you see where I'm, where I'm going with, with the, with the dimension that just made me think of, which is something that I see. A lot of touring artists get caught up in, and I think this is a really good, just sort of forewarning for artists that are pursuing that path, that are moving from making music where this is really fun and it's something that you're passionate about, and then at some point it becomes your career and it becomes your job. And you build a brand and you build an audience, and then they sort of expect there's this almost expectation from you about what you create. Uh, I've seen a lot of artists get caught up in it where, okay. Uh, when it, it started the journey started from a place of authenticity. I'm having so much fun making this shit. I love this. It's authentic, it's rad. And because of that energy, it catches on and everybody starts to really follow you. You're, you're, you're, there's a lot of just really great, passionate, authentic energy behind it, and artists starts to become successful. And now you start touring, and now you're playing those same songs all the time. And now there's this pressure to continue to produce music and specifically cater to that audience. And what happens for most artists is you start to, you start to evolve, you start to grow. What you were doing five years ago isn't necessarily, it's not, you're not the same person anymore. Right. But I see artists sometimes get caught up feeling the pressure of like, I have to keep kind of making this stuff even though it's not really authentic to me anymore. Like, I, I, I've, I've outgrown that suit that I was wearing. Right. I've outgrown maybe that style and that flavor. And so I've seen artists that have gotten stuck there. And these are the ones that kind of become miserable. And I get it.'cause it's like, well, you gotta pay the bills. This is your job now. So you have to keep touring. You have to keep putting out money. Right? So now back to the energy. The energy is coming from fear. The energy is coming from fear of like, I can't, I can't stop doing what I'm doing otherwise I'm not gonna be able to pay my rent. Right? I can't stop the momentum otherwise I'm gonna lose money. I can't take the, I can't do what I really wanna do and be authentic because I'm gonna lose fans if I do that. Right. And so now the whole thing is actually coming from fear and that, and I've worked with artists that have gotten stuck there because there's a misalignment with their authenticity, right? But then you have a lot of artists that you can look at. I think Porter Robinson is a great example of someone where, if you look at the journey of what he was making, who's like, he'd made some huge shifts of just like, all right, I'm like multiple just styles. You know? He started making like tro, you know, like when he was young and now he's like, his brand has shifted so much and he is just. Stayed to be authentic. Obviously Skrillex is a great example as well. Look at what he's making today versus dub, you know, the dubstep stuff he started with, he just continued to follow. Well, this is what's true. This is what's authentic to me, and either you can get on board or not. A lot of artists are, once something starts working and is successful, they cling onto it and, um, don't necessarily, uh, allow themselves. To continue to be authentic. Uh, one of the favorite examples I use all the time is Ellis Dream. He used to be brills. He had this great career and, and created this great project making money. Um, and then at some point he's just like, you know what? I just don't really love this anymore. This doesn't feel authentic anymore. This isn't really my, my, my scene, my, and, and, and rather than clinging onto it and operating from a place of fear and saying, look, I I gotta just keep milking this cash cow. He said, you know what? I'm gonna quit. I'm gonna let it go. I remember seeing him shortly after he had let it go, and I remember him telling me, he was like, yeah, bro. He is like, I just, I dropped the whole project. I'm, I'm back to being a broke artist. I'm not making any fucking money anymore'cause I'm not touring. But a year later he launched LS Dream, right? And he's doing what he, what is authentic to him. He has continued to follow that lane of authenticity. So that's really where I was coming from with like authenticity, right? Like continue to follow that. And, and I think it also back to fear and courage, like you gotta have a little courage to be authentic, especially in a, you know, in, in an industry where there's just, you know, there's so many trends, there's expectations, there's comparison, there's all this mental shit to get caught up in when your, when your North Star is. What's authentic to me? What lights me up? What excites me, what inspires me? And you can, and you can, you have the courage to keep following that. You have the faith to keep following that, and you choose that rather than choosing fear and, and, and, and unconsciously choosing fear. Allowing fear to make those creative decisions for you, that's gonna lead you in a really cool place. I got 18 different ways that I want to go with this, and they're all gonna take about three hours for us to go through. So, hey, should we do a nine hour podcast? Yeah, that's right. What are you doing the rest of the day? I'll, I'll come, I'll come back. We'll do a part, we'll do a part two. Well, I guess part three. Everyone go back and listen to where, what we talk. I don't. I gotta go and listen to our old one from, that was like five years ago or something, or no, man, that was eight years ago. Eight years ago. Eight years ago, dude. Oh, we're getting old, bro. In the light of authenticity, you know, something that you and I talked about. Before we started recording, is you wanted to be authentic about what's going on with your life, and you've definitely talked about that during this podcast. Now we're gonna go really deep into that. Um, but with, you know, like the headliner mindset, what you're doing with your business, with your creative endeavors, with all, all the juicy details of behind the scenes, can you, can you shine the little black light into the backstage of the headliner mindset and Nick Sherwin's all, all the, all the good stuff going on. Yeah. There, there's not too many juicy details to share about it, but what I will share, and I kind of implied to it earlier is, you know, I am definitely, I. Going through a self-reflective process of really questioning like, yeah, what is exciting to me right now? What does really feel authentic? Right? Like I was sharing that, you know, the, the Headliner Mindset podcast. We do talk all about a lot of business stuff. We do talk about a lot of, you know, how to make it in the industry and kind of the strategy, uh, which is great. And I, I love providing that value. I find, I mean, it's necessary. It's, it's, it's a, it's, we can't not talk about it. And I think just in terms of my own coaching and also just in terms of my own, you know, my content, which I really haven't been putting much out of. I'd really just repopulate clips. Yeah. I, I don't know. I had a, I had like a, I sat down with chat GPT the other night and we had like a date had like a three hour conversation back and forth, just really digging in. They're like, yo, like what, what really lights me up? Like where is my, where is my. Excitement, you know? And, um, that was one of the things that came up and what I was sharing earlier of just like, man, maybe it's not just in dance music. Like, I've been working in dance music for a long time, and, uh, I don't wanna say it's getting boring, but it's kind of like, maybe there's some other flavors out there to try out and to expand into, you know, so I'm, I think I'm feeling a bit of a desire to, I'm, I'm, I don't know where it's going, but I'm at least in the stage of exploration, right? It's like if you're a dubstep artist and you've just been making dubstep music for, for years, um, allow yourself to maybe spend a little bit of time playing with some other sounds, some other styles, some other genres, who knows. You know, also so many times, I can't tell you how many, just to kind of compare this to the artist journey, there've been so many times that I've seen artists, you know, have a project or maybe have a couple projects, and then it's like the second or third project where they, they, they, you know, drop what they're doing and say, Hey, you know what? This isn't really. Working anymore, or I'm not super lit up and excited about this, and they have a side project or, or they shift and then that thing blows up. And a lot of people are kind of grinding, trying to make that first project happen where it's like, maybe there's a misalignment there. Maybe it's not actually really, um, you know, again, maybe it's not really lighting you up. Maybe there's something else for you to try out. So I'm not saying I'm, I'm about to bail on what I've been building. Not, not, you know, not at all. But there might be a shift. You know, I might start interviewing different types of artists or different types of people that I find, you know, inspiring and just allowing myself to explore and widen and expand rather than being so, you know, kind of niched down to like, oh, like I, I only work with electronic music artists and DJs. It's like, again, it's, it's great. It's great for business, it's great business advice, but like. I am not guided by that. I'm guided. My North Star is like, what lights me up? Where's the juice? That's what I always say, where's the juice? And so I'm kind of just in the process of searching for that right now. Like what actually is really exciting. Every now and then I'll run a, I run a men's group every, whenever I kind of feel inspired or I meet the right people, that I think would be a good part of it. Nothing to do with electronic music. It's purely just like doing like men's work and, and helping dudes become better dudes. All right. So I, I think I'm just in that process of Yeah. Exploring, um, where I really want to go with it. And I think really what it, what's coming up is it's like I want to go deeper into the woo woo thing. Like, I'm a very spiritual person and, you know, I love talking about, uh, spirituality and creative energy and, and the muse. You know, I think a lot of people don't realize that literally the word music comes from. The muse, the muses, the muses were, I had no idea. Nine. The, the muses are the nine goddesses of inspiration from Greek mythology. They were, they were these, these goddesses that would visit the artists and the painters and the poets and the musicians. And, and, and you know, when you're, when you're in that flow state and you get that lightning bolt of inspiration in Greek mythology, they believe that that was the muse that was visiting you. It's literally where the word music comes from. Um, and so like, yeah, I, I love, it's like. I, I don't think I really love helping people create, like, content strategies and figure out how to get more, you know, chase trends and get more followers on Instagram. I'm just getting really clear that like, that's not my thing. You wanna have a deeper connection to the divine and the muse and, and learn how to channel some, uh, some inspirational ideas from the universe. Like, yeah, let's go, let's go play in that deep end. Like, that's, that's what's coming, coming through for me. It's been very, very fun for me while we've been talking, just to see this main ingredient of the mindset be interwoven into almost everything that we're talking about, because here you are, you've created this thing, you've created this podcast, you've created this business model, so on and so forth, and you've felt something, something was off. Maybe something wasn't so vibrant, or maybe something was a little bit getting a little bit boring, a little bit stagnant, and instead of pushing that off and just keep grinding and keep working, you took a three hour date with chat, GPT. And you said, let's lean into that. Why am I feeling that way? How can we fix it? What does that mean? You know, is it so, I think that's just so wonderful to see that in action, right? This, this entire ideology that we've been talking about is currently taking place in you, in you with, with what you got going on. You are not, you know, you're not this special case where you never have to apply this system. You apply this system all the time. I'm filling these feelings and now I need to explore it. Yeah. I have always been guided by my intuition from really like a really young age. I've just had a connection to. Feeling those little intuitive poles, just those little nudges, you know, it's like, like, like having a gut feeling or that kind of like whisper in the back of back of your mind and there's like the, you know, the logical brain that's trying to think everything, the computer's trying to process everything. But there's also just that, that deeper intuitive gut sensation that has a lot of wisdom. And I think from a young age, I've just always. Followed that. I've trusted it. I've also not followed it. Um, to be honest, you know, when I was young, like I knew I was supposed to be an artist, I wanted to be a rock star. I played the drums. I wanted to be in a band. Uh, even with music production, I started, I was producing music in high school, like 15, 16 years old. And intuitively, I, like, I knew that was the future. And, but I didn't listen to it. I didn't follow it. I didn't pursue it. And so when I, when you don't follow your intuition is also a great way to get really strong with it. So, um, I've also followed it, uh, you know, moving to LA right outta college and just like having this intuitive nudge of like, oh, I think I wanna work in the music business. Chasing that, taking those leaps of faith. Um, more recently, you know how this really aligns with being an artist and my philosophy around being an artist is that I, I believe that as, as an artist, you're just the vessel that, that creative energy, all of those ideas, they belong to the muses I. They belong to the universe and, and the more you have an energetic alignment with the divine, with the universe, and you allow yourself to simply be the vessel, you get to receive that creative energy. You get to receive those ideas. Your job is just to surrender to it, to open yourself up to it, and to allow those ideas to come through you. So while I may not be doing that as an artist with music, I'm definitely doing that in what I'm creating. I have a, a coaching group that I run right now, which started off just as this intuitive idea. There was just this whisper in the back of my mind that was like, Hey, launch a coaching group. And I was kind of like, what? Like, no, that's a lot of work. I don't want to do that. What are you talking about? You know, like my own sort of ego and internal resistance. And finally I was like, I just surrendered. I was like, all right, whatever. Like, I don't even know what this thing is about. I like, what do you want to create through me? And I allowed it. I spent two months just making this program and it's like, I don't even take any credit for, it's like I didn't create the program. The creative, the program was created through me. And I'm so glad that I surrendered and I obeyed and I also showed up and I did the work. But now I have, you know, 50 people in like this incredibly tight knit community of artists. And, uh, and it's so, it's so incredible and, and I, and I have these calls with them every week and I take a step back. I'm like, this, this thing created itself. You know, my job was just to like, hold space and kind of create the container to allow the magic to happen. And I think that that really is, you know what an artist does as well. It's just like, yo, those songs, it's like you, you hear when people accept Grammy awards oftentimes they're like, yo, I, this song just came through me one night. You know, this song just like, it, it, it, it, it, it just showed up. And it's like, yeah, that's, it's, I want to tap more into that and I want to help guide people to tap into that because the other option is to grind and create from a place of stress and pressure and chase algorithms and chase numbers. Be pretty fucking miserable in the process, and then actually maybe get some success and then be launched into a career where you're stressed out all the time. Having to keep up with that. It's like there's just a different way of doing things. And so I'm feeling very intuitively called to, to as much as maybe the podcast and the demand from the public wants, like strategy, you know, like I'm actually feeling very intuitively called to kind of go in a different direction. Not only can I feel this fear for myself, but I know the o the other listeners are gonna be feeling this fear too. Eventually, somehow, some way as you're leaning into that, as you're leaning into your integrity and your intuition, you're gonna get backlash somehow. Maybe this, the listeners of the podcast that you know that they expected one thing and now you're evolving into something else, or you know, people just don't agree with you or it's, you know, just your common, uh, Twitter trolls that just want to, you know. Take out their dirty laundry on you. What? What do you do, Nick? When you start leaning into that authentic self, when you start leaning into you following that, that inner voice, and there's backlash, and I'm not talking about just like basic level backlash where you kind of just like your eyes roll into the back of your head and you're like, okay, whatever. But like backlash that really hits you hard. Maybe it's backlash from someone you really trust or backlash from. You know, they, they, they really like twist the knife on an insecurity or something. Like, what, what do you do about that? If you are, if you are the one that's creating everything, then your self-worth is gonna be attached to the result. It's gonna be attached to, if people like it, it's gonna be attached to if people don't, and you're gonna really feel the effect of whatever the response is. If you just get out of the way and recognize that, like, I'm not even the one that's creating this. I'm the vessel. So regardless of what happens, then it's like, this is just something that came through me. The universe created this. My ego is not attached to it. My ego is not involved. If it does, well, cool. If not, whatever. Right? And so there's, there's. There's an un, there's like an un attachment that comes with doing that and being that, and again, easier said than done. We all have an ego and anybody that created anything that was worthwhile is also probably going to receive some backlash. So it's like maybe even seeing it as a good thing. You know, the, the example that I like to use is when a vichi rest in peace. My number one favorite artist when he created Wake Me Up and, Hey brother, uh, folk songs, right? He was like a house music, progressive house dj and then decided like, Hey, I am authentically inspired to collaborate with some of these folk artists and have acoustic guitars and banjos and mix, mix that with house music. Came out to Ultra Miami and premiered, uh, wake Me Up, which completely. Dr. Like the half the fucking crowd left'cause he came out with live singers and artists. I don't know if you guys have watched the recent documentary that came out. Yeah. Another documentary came out recently. The whole crowd, I'm talking about like, tens of thousands of people were like, what the fuck is this? And like, we're booing and walking away. Like he took a huge creative risk and like two weeks later, wake Me Up was like the most played song on Spotify ever. So the initial backlash, it was like being misunderstood, right? People didn't get it. Um, but he knew what he was doing. I think such a great example of a truly prolific artist of someone that was just like, Hey, well this, this is what wants to come through me. This is what's authentic to me. And maybe people are gonna misunderstand it, but you know, it, it, it. Eventually people caught on and he created something. Great. So there's a question here tied up into this, which is like, yeah, how do you deal with haters? Um, I would rather, I would rather be dealing with hate for, you know, me actually making shit that I'm proud of and, and that is actually like authentic to me than deal with haters. Hating on me for making some shit that as isn't actually even what I'm all about. You know? I don't know. I fortunately haven't had to deal with that that much. Um, I did at one point, I actually posted a threads, like I never used threads. Like it kind of went, it kind of blew up and, and created this huge, you know, conversation and had like, literally like big artists like chiming in. And a lot of people were like ripping into me calling me like, you know, like, who's this fucking bro, like talking to, you know, artists. I, and, and I noticed myself get really defensive. I was like, oh, that wasn't what I meant. I was trying to defend myself and, and one, there was a big lesson there and. Be okay with being misunderstood. I get dms and text messages literally every single day from people thanking me for either, whether, whether it's the content I put out the podcast I put out, or like also just from past clients, like literally a couple times a week. I have, you know, I've personally coached like hundreds of people, people that don't know me, that might misunderstand what I'm about and what I'm doing, and that's more of a reflection of like who they are and where they're at and, and on their journey, and then their mindset and you know, nothing but love to them, whatever. Um, but the thing that I think would get me through any of that and has in the past is I'm like, I'm like, I, I know what I've done. You know what I mean? Like, I got, I got a, I got a long, a long list of clients and, and, and to go all the way back, you know, even further, it's like I've, yeah. I've helped enough people at this point. I've, I, and I think this is what it boils, boils down to, you know, my heart is in the right place. You know what I mean? I'm never trying to manipulate. I've, I've, I've been committed to service, right? And I think if your heart is in the right place, you're coming from the right place. You're, you're committed to, you know, just sharing your gift and sharing your art. Like, okay, if mis, if people misunderstand it, whatever, that's on them. It's not your job to convince the world. Uh, of, of, of your art or your greatness. Um, but you just are here, you're here to just share your gift. You know, my gift is coaching. My gift is serving. My gift is helping. That's my gift. I'm committed to, to committed, to giving it. I feel like it's my purpose, it's my mission. You know, again, I'm a spiritual person. I, I truly feel that I've been, you know, chosen to do this work. And in the same way as an artist, I hope that, like you feel that you've been chosen to bring your gift and your art to, to the world as well. And so that's about you and your relationship to the divine, your relationship with just like your mission and your purpose. And, and if you're in alignment with that, then people disagreeing with it and misunderstanding you is, is not really gonna make a big difference.'cause you're gonna know what you're all about and you're gonna know where your heart's at. I don't have anything that I can add to that. That was a beautiful, you know, capstone to, is that even, how is that, am I using that term right? That's not, I'm not using that term. Is that right? Okay, we'll keep it, we'll keep it. Good job. So, but that was a beautiful ending to getting a behind the scenes look into what's actually going on with you, how you're applying the mindset theology, if we will. Probably just ideology or is it a theology? Stay tuned for part three, you'll find out. And so, so with that being said, Nick, let's move into some, uh, rapid fire questions that we can ask you and then we'll get to the big question of what is the best decision, one of the best decisions that you've made for your music career? This is a perfect question for you in regards to your coaching and, uh, the headline or mindset podcast. You know, what belief about yourself did you have to kill in order to grow in your career? Ooh, such a good question. Gimme gimme a second to actually really, that's not a quick fire question, bro. That's a key question. Sorry. Sorry. There was a moment of imposter syndrome of, uh, feeling that I, I am not, uh, validated. In coaching artists, because I'm not an artist myself, I got caught up, caught up in that belief for a little bit that I need to be an artist and I need, need to be walking the same path in order to really be a good coach and be in service to people that are, uh, that caught me up for a little bit. But, um, yeah, I've definitely broken through that path and I, and I really know that like this, this is my, my authentic radio frequency, my lane of my special gift, uh, that I get to give, you know, it's like not everybody, not everybody, not every Super Bowl coach, uh, that's coaching a football team to the Super Bowl has also played in the Super Bowl. It doesn't mean they're not a great. Coach that can win championships. You know, my, uh, medical doctor is not a podcaster and yet, uh, he's my medical doctor. I don't need a medical doctor that was a podcaster to know how to help me. I just need him to be a medical doctor. Right. And so it's the same concept, right? So I agree with you. I think that the imposter syndrome could have killed a really beautiful baby that you would've had, and you got over that. And now we have you, which is a true gto our to our community. Okay. The next, uh, rapid fire question, I'm starting to realize that most of these are not rapid fire questions. I'm just, I'm not good at having small conversations. And so rapid fire question is like, what's your favorite movie? Yeah, yeah. What color shirt are you currently wearing that's black. Oh, this shirt, this is the one, you know, what's an unpopular, controversial opinion that you have about the music industry? You have shared a lot, but what's one that you haven't mentioned that it's less about the music and more about the person. You know, we, we, we touched on it, but you know, everybody is focusing on. The music and the brand and the marketing and all of this stuff. A, a above the surface, the tip of the iceberg. But, uh, I think that if, if you become the right person, then you know, you, you, you need to work on yourself more than you need to work on your career. If you become the right person, then you can become successful. Right. And I, I think that that's the, maybe the unpopular opinion and, and we see it, you know, I think for artists that are really, um, yeah. That really are successful. There's sort of this, there's this X factor. I. That they have. Right? And, and, and that is, um, I think almost like that's at the foundation of all of it. I think that's potentially more important than any big like marketing strategy or campaign with the people that you've worked with and people that you've coached, what is one of the number one things that they absolutely waste money on? But you see this common denominator, they waste money on this thing. You're like, just stop, stop wasting money on that studio equipment. Right. You know, you always need the, the, the next plugin, the next big thing. And. I think that can limit you actually from just being creative. I think it's more about what you do with the tools that you have rather than just the tools. So that's one of the things I see people, yeah. Spending, you know, a ton on, on their equipment where it's like, it's more like you just need to sit down and like get to work and stop chasing the next shiny object. You don't need a jackhammer before you learn how to use a regular hammer. My guy. Like learn how to use that hammer to every little bit that you can before, before upgrading. Am I right? Alright, so our final rapid fire question is, what is a question I. That people never ask you, but you just wish they would usually like, come on, be like, this is the time they're gonna ask and then they never do and then you're all disappointed. What is that question, my guy? Dude, these questions are so deep. I'm so sorry. I try to be simple and it comes out deep. I'm so sorry. Nothing rapid fire about this. A question that lemme wrap my head around this. A question that I wish people asked me or just like even, even either more or they literally never ask and you're like, I really wish someone would ask me this question. I think a question that people don't ask, but I would love to hear is, how can I be a more loving and giving person? Because I believe that if you just become a more loving and giving person, that's like what you're putting out into the world. You're putting that energy out that. It's all gonna come back to you tenfold. Right? So rather than looking at like, Hey, how can I build my following and blow up my career? It's like you're kind of asking for like, how can I take rather than how can I give more? Right. I think if people start asking that, um, yeah, it would be a really big game changer because you, uh, brought up spirituality and theology a little bit before in saying how you're super interested in that. I have a comment about this and then we can get into the last question if that's okay. Do I have your permission? Is that right? So something about that being a more loving and giving person. I'm, I'm reading a book right now. It's called The God Who Weeps. You ever heard of that book by Terrell and Fiona Gibbs? It's. Oh, I would recommend everyone, even if you, even if you are hard atheists, there's no, there's no bigger power. There's no anything. It is, the concept of it is just beautiful to even imagine a God that weeps. Right? And the implication of that is it's a God that cares. It's a force that cares. It's a God that is invested in you, right? That that cares about you and your success and so on and so forth, right? But in it, it really examines the concept of what sin is. You know, depending on the religion and the belief, what is sin and the kind of the, the definition that they land on, which I feel like completely applies to what we've been talking about and what you just said. Sin is when you cause harm to yourself or someone else, right? You intentionally. Harm someone your yourself or someone else, right? Where the opposite of sin is love. You intentionally help someone else. You prevent, you intentionally prevent harm from someone else. So in, you know, in religious terms, by being more loving and giving, you are not only preventing sin in yourself, but you are helping prevent sin in other people, so on and so forth. And so anyways, it just completely reframed my entire ideology around sin and what sin actually is. You know, it's not these weird little like cultural rules that if you break, then that that displeases a god, a very, you know, punitive God in the sky. It is, it's all wrapped up in the concept of love. You are, you are, you are. Sin is just when you are hurting somebody, you know, unintentionally causing harm to somebody or, or sorry, intentionally causing harm to someone where love is the exact opposite. You are intentionally preventing harm for other people. So that was just beautiful little tie in to what you said. Do you have any comments on that before we move on? Yeah, I, I love it. It's, it's, I think it's just. Whatever you focus on is gonna grow. You know, if you want, um. More things in your life to be grateful for. Practice gratitude. If you wanna feel, feel more love in your life. Like give love, uh, if you want more abundance, you wanna receive more, give more. Uh, it's kinda like karma, you know? Like whatever you put out is what you're gonna get back. And um, yeah, a lot of us are just kind of putting out the wrong things, you know? So yeah, put out, put out more, put out more love and see what that does for your life. So with that being said, that brings us to the end. We're gonna fulfill our promise and the great mythological Nick Sherwin is going to share with us what is one of the greatest decisions that he has made for his career in music. So, Nick, take it away. What is it? My guy? You know, I gotta be a little cheeky with this and actually say that the best decision, um, is also the same as what I said before, as far as it being, you know, the worst decision. I don't actually really think it was the worst decision that I had made it actually, I. Really was the best decision that I, that I made, uh, because, um, I, you know, I, I, I passed up that opportunity to work at Icon Collective, which was just me teaching an hour of music business once a week. But that unlocked this thing inside of me that I didn't know that I had, which was being a teacher, worked at Icon for seven years. And it just absolutely changed my life, you know, so while I, you know, maybe didn't climb the ranks of, you know, throwing the biggest music festivals in the world and, and going deep into that part of the community, um, I trusted my intuition and followed this sort of. Trail of breadcrumbs out into the, the wilderness. And, uh, that path has like, led me to what I'm doing today, which I have like an incredible amount of fulfillment doing in terms of working with artists and the capacity that I do. So, you know, it's, it's, it's funny, it's, I think it's just a great lesson in here that it's, um, sometimes your, you know, those moments, maybe those moments, um, you know, the biggest challenges in our life can also become the, the, the best moments as well. You know, not that necessarily that was a challenge, but it was like it was a fork in the road. And, you know, you can look back on certain forks in the road and be like, that was the worst decision. But it's like, all right, well, how, how could it have also maybe actually been great? You know? So, um, that definitely worked out for me pretty well. That was an amazing trademark. Uh, Nick Sherwin answer. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Dude, this is awesome. I got two final things to go over with you. First off, if someone wants to get into your world, they're, they're absolutely convinced they've never been more sure in their entire life that they need Nick Sherwin as their life coach. How do they go about that? How do they learn more about you? What, what, what's their next steps? Yeah, the best way would really just to be, reach out directly, uh, through Instagram. So you can hit me up. It's Nick TruLink, N-I-K-C-H-E-R-W-I-N-K. Uh, should be pretty easy to find. But yeah, follow me, send me a dm. I'm, I'm very, uh, approachable and accessible there. We can chat about, uh, setting up a call. You also can just go to my website. You can learn a little bit more about me there, nick tink.com. And, uh, you can book a call through the website as well if you, if you wanna hop on and, um, yeah, so yeah, either Instagram or my, or my website would love to connect with you. Then the final, final question I have for you is I. Who is someone that you'd like to come on this show? You would love to learn from'em, and you'd love for them to go deep the way that we were just going in right now, you know, who's that guy for you? Or girl who, who's that person? Well, my, my number one pick for my podcast someday would be Rick Rubin. So I hope you can get Rick Rubin on, on to your podcast and then introduce me to him when you do. I, I, I think that we went deep today, but I think that he could go, you know, 10 times deeper as well. Well, Nick Sherwin, my guy, you are an amazing human being. You are my surrogate father that I, you know, look up to you. You're in my mind most of the time when I'm thinking about what would my dad think of me right now, I just picture you. And I'm like, he'd be proud of me. He's, you know, Nick, Nick's proud of me for what I'm doing with all my, you know. Dozens of children that run around my house. That sounds so bad. So proud man. I mean, it's, I, it's funny you say that. I'm, I'm looking up to you. And the time comes, you know, for me to have a kid, which is, you know, hopefully in the next few years, I feel like I'm ready, you know, getting ready for that. I'm like, all right, you're, you're the first guy I'm calling. This guy's been doing it. He knows what's up. So yeah, man. If you need me to, to fly out, to show you how to set up the stroller in the, in the crib. I got wish me how to swaddle a baby. No. Thank you so much, man. Any final words before we, uh, before we wrap up? Uh, just right back at you, brother. It's really great to. You know, still be connected after all of these years. It's been quite a journey. It's really been cool to see what you've created for yourself. And, uh, I also equally really just look up to you, everything that, you know, you've created with your business, the way that you're serving the community. Uh, it's, it's, I just have a ton of respect and it's just really cool to, yeah, to be back on the podcast. I can't believe it's been eight years, so thank you for having me on. And, um, yeah, man, can't, can't wait to to see you in person, hopefully, and, and stay connected.