Headliner Mindset

PHASEONE – Building a Legacy in Bass Music

• Nik Cherwink

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PhaseOne is a undeniable heavy-hitter in the bass music scene, fusing metal and dubstep to carve out a sound that’s as aggressive as it is intentional. In this episode, we talk about what it really means to stay relevant in an industry that moves fast — and why, after 15 years in the game, he’s choosing to slow down and make an album, not just chase singles.

We get into:

  • The pressure artists feel to constantly stay visible
  • Choosing creative fulfillment over algorithmic success
  • How his sound and brand have evolved over time
  • The freedom that comes with knowing who you are as an artist

Whether you’re just starting out or deep in your career, this conversation is a reminder to trust your gut, play the long game, and make art that actually matters.

—
📲 Follow PhaseOne:
Instagram: @phaseonemusic

🎧 Ready to take your artist career to the next level?
Book a free call to see if coaching is a good fit:
https://www.nikcherwink.com


Graeme:

everyone's a dj, everyone's a producer now, it's like, how do you actually stand out? I think you just need, really need to like, find your sound said than done. Right. But

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

that's kind of it, like, you know, like, how else will you stand out?

Nik Cherwink:

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. This week's guest is a heavy hitter in the bass music scene and one of the badass artists that has been bringing heavy metal to electronic music. In this episode, we talk about the pressure of staying relevant as an established artist. The difference between dropping an album versus dropping singles, essential DJ hacks for life on the road, and much, much more. This is phase one. What's up brother? Welcome to the show, man. So stoked to have you here.

Graeme:

Thanks for having me, sir. It's good. Glad to be here.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, and I was just saying, uh, congratulations on the album. By the time this comes out, the album will be out, but, but right now it's coming out in about a day or two. So congratulations man. Crossing the finish line.

Graeme:

Yeah, we we're finally here. You know, it's, uh, it's been year in the making and, you know, a bunch of months planning the release and everything.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

it feels, it feels very surreal that it's like, oh, it's just, it comes out in like a day or two. It's like,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

like,

Nik Cherwink:

So my, my.

Graeme:

crazy, but, um, yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

My question is, what are you gonna do to celebrate? I'm huge on celebration. I think it's, I, I'm, I'm always, uh, I'm always encouraging my clients to celebrate everything that they do. So what are you doing to celebrate a year's worth of work?

Graeme:

I hadn't even got that far ahead, honestly. Like I've just been so fo focused. I literally haven't thought of

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

it is funny'cause like this, this, this is like, this is like, I, I, I'm doing nothing this weekend, like purposely.'cause like, like the week after tour starts, I'm kind of like trying to enjoy like my

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

free man, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

but um, yeah, I, I hadn't even thought that far ahead. I've been so like, focused on like the rollout and like, everything like, but maybe, uh, yeah, it comes out Friday, so I guess I'll, I don't know, have a beer or something at

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. See, okay, here's the thing. I gotta point this out. We all suck at celebrating. Like we're so good at, you know, we're focused on our goals, we're focused on working, what's the next thing, right? But it's such an important part of the process that we also have to like. Acknowledge ourselves and celebrate the wins along the way. Otherwise, it's like, okay, what's, what's next? Right? We're just back to work on Monday, chasing the next thing. So yes, get that beer. Do something fun. Super important that you celebrate.

Graeme:

Yeah. I, I'll, I'll, I'll definitely, uh, yeah. Thanks, thanks for planning that.'cause I, I wouldn't have done anything

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, it's wild. No, you and you're not the only one man. You're, it's wild. Like, I, I do, you know, I, I am a life coach for artists and DJs. I help a lot of people out with the music business side of it. But like the mindset, life coaching side of it is so important as well. And this is like a pillar of my process is like we have to celebrate every little milestone along the way, otherwise we just get fucking burned out. And all we're doing is, you know, working and grinding. And that catches up with us after a while. So. Yes. Celebrate big time.

Graeme:

think, I think my mentality. it was like, because tour starts next week. Like I, um, like I, I kind of treat tours like my social times, like

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Graeme:

like I'm

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

like I'm meet, I'm meeting so many people, meeting so many fans and like traveling and like, like I was kind of, of treat that as like the, uh, the time to like celebrate in a way where it's like I get

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

like, like besides all the travel, like, you know, I, I get to hang out with people and like, you know. Like it, it kind of feels like a party, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

but like that does feel like,

Nik Cherwink:

I,

Graeme:

a bit of a thing. So I was kind of like gonna use that as

Nik Cherwink:

yeah.

Graeme:

celebratory part, but like, yeah. It's a

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. I was,

Graeme:

isn't it?

Nik Cherwink:

I, I was, I was gonna ask, does tour feel like a celebration when you go out there?

Graeme:

Sometimes. Sometimes it feels very exhausting,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

you know, as I'm sure like many of your clients will tell you it's,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

be a lot.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah, yeah. Combination of both.

Graeme:

every weekend, like, like this, this tour I'm about to start is like literally every weekend until the end of the year, like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. So I imagine the beginning, like you're gonna get out, you're kind of fresh, beginning a tour album just dropped. There's probably a lot of like excited celebratory energy in the beginning, and then I imagine there's a point where you're like, shit, I've been on the road for a while. It's probably gotta be like. Uh, like a dip in the excitement after you've done so many shows in a row? Like what's, what's that like? Is there a certain amount of time that you, you know, when you've been on the row that you're like, okay, now it, now it's starting to feel like work.

Graeme:

Um, a little bit, but like, I've also basic been doing this for so long that it, it, it all just kind of just like I'm, I'm used to it. I guess.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

I think, I think, I think it's the weekends when you have like shows, like the first show's grand, uh, second show's, like feel, feel it. If you have like three shows in one weekend, like the third show, you're just like.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Like,

Nik Cherwink:

yeah,

Graeme:

Um, it's, especially with all, all the travel, like always try and like get the like direct flights to make the, um, to make it easier on myself, easier on my body. Like I'm just like, just, just get me there.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah.

Graeme:

I don't wanna, like, I don't wanna mess around with

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

and shit

Nik Cherwink:

Pay the extra a hundred bucks to avoid the layover and, and catch up, you know, get a little bit more sleep. What are some other tips that you have for, you know, maybe there's some younger artists out there that they're, they're just starting to get their first shows, they're just starting to tour as a touring veteran at this point. What are some tips that you have to help people survive life on the road?

Graeme:

Um, I think like an important one if, if you are like flying a lot, is to try and stick to like one airline.'cause you wanna like up those miles and get, gain like a status with an airline because. Because when, when, when it comes to time, when you're like traveling a lot, it's like you want that experience to be as, as pleasant as possible. Right? So

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

like for me it's like I've, I'm like, like top two with like, like, um, Delta and Americans. So it's like whenever I catch those airlines, like pretty much like nine times outta 10 flights I'll get upgraded to first, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Oh, nice.

Graeme:

like, like having that and like having access to like the lounge, like,'cause like that's kinda your time to like get lunch and shit like that. And it's like. If you can save like money by having to not buy lunch and that you just go to the airport lounge and get your food there,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

that makes it, that, that, that, that, that makes a big difference in like, you know, when you add it all up.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Cool.

Graeme:

that's a huge one for me. I think I

Nik Cherwink:

DJ hacks.

Graeme:

did

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Love that man. Well, I want to hear a bit about your, we can call it your origin story. So anyone that's been listening to the podcast for a while, you guys know. I'm a fucking metalhead and I'm sitting here with a, a, a fellow metalhead who has also brought that into the electronic world. I think it's so cool to kind of just see how those worlds have, have been joining forces more and more. Um, I'm curious about your background as an artist, as a musician. Did you start off playing in bands? I've seen that, that happen with a lot of artists. So tell me a bit about how you started, in music.

Graeme:

Yeah, I feel like, a lot of dubstep producers used to play in

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

metal

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Almost all of'em, for sure.

Graeme:

a lot. A lot. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, God, I, I, uh, I started playing guitar when I was like a kid. didn't really take it seriously until like, maybe I was a, a teenager when, when I, you know, started getting into like Metallica and shit like that, you know, when I was like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

13, 13, 14 kind of thing. And then, yeah, in high school we started our, like high school band. We would just like, we would do like covers of like Lamb of God and

Nik Cherwink:

Hell yeah, dude.

Graeme:

Um, yeah. And then that kind of like, yeah. Then we like graduated and then we kind of kept that band for a couple years. Then we started just doing like local gigs just around like Sydney, basically where I'm from. And then I, then after that I kind of started bouncing around just between other bands.'cause that at that point, like. We, we knew everyone, like kind of in the, the local like metal scene, um, like the underground, local metal scene, whatever. And then at that point I was like playing in like three different bands at once, kind of like, we would, we would always kind of bounce around each other's bands and stuff like that.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Yeah, so that was kind like my introduction to like, I don't say tour, it wasn't like touring, but like, you know, we would, we would be doing shows and stuff like that and, and like we did a few like national runs in like a van, you know, like down to like Melbourne or like. Brisbane or Canberra and stuff like that. Like, it wasn't like touring, but like, it kind of was though.'cause like it's like five dudes like crammed in like this van with like drum kits and like amplifiers and gear. Like, it was so uncomfortable.

Nik Cherwink:

a little different than going to the Delta Lounge, by yourself, uh, as a DJ for lunch, right?

Graeme:

I'm saying, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's a, it's a very different experience. But like, that was, that was kinda my first taste of like, you know, doing shows and touring and stuff like that. Uh, this is like, this is before I even knew what like EDM was

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

then, like this, this is like 2000 and like six, seven. Like, you know, like EDM wasn't really a thing. I mean, it was, but like wasn't really like, to me it was just like,

Nik Cherwink:

It was, yeah, it was all techno music.

Graeme:

yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it kind of was to an extent, like, you know, I, I know, I know dubstep was only just kind of being invented like around then, like. 2006, 7, 8, 9, like super underground, like, and just in the uk like nowhere else even knew what it was.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah. So when did you make that transition into music production?

Graeme:

yeah, I mean, like, I, I, I was always doing production like, uh, like with my bands, I was always the producer, I was the engineer. I, I, I went to school for sound engineering. so like, I was already, I, I already had like a, like a producer that had on, so I was like. like the, predominantly like the songwriter in the bands. So I was like songwriting and engineering basically the songs. And then it was, it was, it was more of like, it was almost like a matter of me being like teaching the band member how to play the songs that, that I wrote and recorded

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

And then, and then we, we could like record both and stuff like that. So I, I already had that, like enough knowledge or like basic knowledge on, you know, how to, you know, record and, you know, do some basic engineering. And then I went to school for it. And then in 2010, me and my buddies, I used to travel like to Europe a lot, um, just for fun. that's kind of where like, I kind of like really started like we would, like, would attend like festivals and stuff like that. And that was kind of like, uh, my first introduction to, um, like, I guess like the, what, like the new world of EDM and stuff like that, you know,

Nik Cherwink:

Right. Yeah.

Graeme:

it was, it was around that time where Riri was coming up and stuff like that. And Mouse was a big thing. So that was like, kind of inspiring to me. And then like when dubstep really kind of like took a, took a turn. And like, you know, 20 10, 20 11. just remember, I remember sitting at my computer,'cause I remember being on Facebook and like people would always like, um, post like the UK F videos

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Graeme:

I, I'd always see the, the logo come up and

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

whatever. What is this technical shit? Whatever. Kept, kept, keep scrolling past whatever. And then I saw it, like I saw it pop up so many times. I'm like, what is this? So I clicked on it and like that changed my life.

Nik Cherwink:

Oh yeah.

Graeme:

day I clicked on that was like, it changed, changed the trajectory of like everything.

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Graeme:

like it was, it wasn't, it wasn't even like a heavy dubstep song. It was like a, um, it was like a melodic, like dubstep song, but like the vocal, I'm just like, I dunno. Something about it just like sent me into like this aura.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

on a deep dive and found all like, the, the heavier stuff and discovered like, you know, like SK did a fucking, um, like a collab album with Korn and stuff like that.

Nik Cherwink:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

like, you know, it's like. And, and to me it was just like, like is just like electronic metal. It's like they're both just aggressive styles of music,

Nik Cherwink:

Totally.

Graeme:

you know what I mean? So,

Nik Cherwink:

So, yeah.

Graeme:

that, that was kinda like the introduction, I guess.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. So that was always there for you from the beginning though, was the, the metal roots and kind of background. Were you playing guitar on your, on your early stuff? Like were you actually bringing in like the metal sounds?

Graeme:

Not at that stage, like the ear, the early stuff, I was just basically trying to make the upset with

Nik Cherwink:

Okay.

Graeme:

without the idea of

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

Um, I,'cause at,'cause then I, I started doing that for a bit, then I ended up quitting the band I was in at the time to just kind of focus on that.'cause by then I, I was like, just like making shitty, like remixes or like, um, uh, ideas and just putting'em on SoundCloud. And then off that people were trying to book me and I was like, fuck. Like, I dunno how to

Nik Cherwink:

Mm

Graeme:

So I'm

Nik Cherwink:

mm.

Graeme:

I guess I should teach myself at a DJ if I wanted to get booked or whatever.

Nik Cherwink:

I wanna, I wanna ask about that real quick. Um, what's, because there was an era where you could just upload a track on SoundCloud and do like a cool remix and it would get like 10 million plays, and then you just start getting calls from like, bookers and agents and stuff. So I, I want, I want to hear about like, when you started getting success, were you going as phase one at this point already? Was that your, your brand or did you have a previous uh, brand?

Graeme:

yeah, yeah. I, I pretty much just like, uh, like I had to, I had to make a sound without account, so I was like, just kind of picked a random name, like to,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

it was like. Um, like phase one just comes from like, um, like fa like phase is like, you know, in, in audio, like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

phasing in and out.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah.

Graeme:

that and slap slapped one on the end. Like I, I, I basically just had to think of a name to like make the account. So that

Nik Cherwink:

Okay. and then you started seeing success pretty quickly, just, just from putting your music out there.

Graeme:

uh, I would say success. Like I got some rec recognition, I guess because like, I guess like having previous, um, I. Previous experience as a musician in general, kind of like, you know, had the, the, you know, the, the building blocks to, you know, make a songs like a

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

a new, um, you know, music theory and I could play several instruments and all this sort of stuff. So that definitely helps. and then after, yeah, maybe after like. A year or something of uploading songs, like, and, and just also kind of going out and getting to know like local DJs and local promoters and stuff like that. Like I, yeah, I definitely started getting booked a few times, just like locally,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

um, just like opening like doors for like, whoever, you know,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

um,

Nik Cherwink:

And were, were you pretty set on becoming a DJ at, at that point? Like you made the transition from like, I'm in a band. What was that moment where you, like you, it sounds like you probably closed the door on the band thing and started going for the DJ thing. Like what was that moment?

Graeme:

Um, yeah, I mean, like, I never thought it was gonna take off. Like, I never, like, that was never my intention. Like, like if, if you had to said to me like 15 years ago, like, oh, you're gonna be doing this full time,

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Graeme:

in a few years. Like, I would just been like, no, this is, this is just for funsies. Like,

Nik Cherwink:

Okay. Yeah.

Graeme:

I had, I had my day, I had my day job and all that. And the s doing music just'cause that's, that's all I ever knew, you know, like, it was just, it's just what I do, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Yeah, so it was probably like, maybe like three, three years into it, maybe like 2013, that I started missing doing the medal stuff. And that was when I was kind of like, why not try and do both, I guess. Like, um, so, so like, yeah, I kind of started just like doing the metal stuff as well, but then trying to incorporate like,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

E-D-M-E-D-M into it.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

And then little did I know that was about to spark my like next 10 years of like journey of like trying to master that sound or

Nik Cherwink:

Totally. And I, I wanna acknowledge you for that, bro, because I've seen and heard a lot of people try and it, it, it, it's hard. It seems like it's hard to make it work. I had a good chat with, um, with Nitty about this on the podcast, and I actually used to manage Sullivan King early on in his career. So was was with him when he started picking up his guitar and, and bringing it all together. But it's like, it's a sonically kind of hard thing to do and you might hear a lot of like, maybe like a metal verse. And then just into a dubstep drop. But to actually really bring it all together to sit on top of each other, it, it's, it's, uh, there's only a few people out there that I think are actually really doing it well. And so you've been, you, you're one of them, man. You've been doing a good job of actually like bringing it together. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And, and, and the one point I want to, I want to highlight as well of what you just said was like you said you were doing it like just for funsies, you know, like you were, you were just following.'cause right now, you know, I think so many people are. Focusing on success of like, okay, what I want to be a successful artist. How do I become a successful artist? What do I need to make to become a successful artist? And I always love hearing, hearing these stories where it's kind of like. It's like I wasn't really chasing it. I wasn't really trying, I was just following like, I really love making music and let's follow the stuff that's actually fun and interesting. And especially for you, you know, like metal and electronic music wasn't a thing, but that was what was inside of you. That was something that you loved, something you were interested in and passionate about, and you followed that and that's what ultimately led to your success.

Graeme:

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's, it's definitely been an interesting journey for sure,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

the least.

Nik Cherwink:

What would you say have been some of the, the biggest challenges on your journey so far?

Graeme:

Um, I think like in more recent days, like post COVID, you know, like, I guess like,'cause I've been around, like, I'm considered like an old head now. Being an older artist, it's like just as hard to like stay on

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Graeme:

as it is to like, come on these days I feel

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Graeme:

was like, I feel like with the way people consume music, they're, they're, they're, they're spoiled for choice, you know, like there's all these new things coming out, blah, blah, blah. it's almost like, oh, shiny diamond, ooh, shiny thing over here. It's like, you know,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

are so attracted to just new fancy things, whatever, but it's like, you know, trying to, trying to stay, stay on. It's like, uh, a an older artist is like, definitely a tough one. Especially like, now it's like a whole, whole new, new generation, you know? So it's like.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Trying to stay, you know, connected to these fans that are like, grew up in like the two thousands, like with their phones and stuff like that. And like the

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

generation. Like that's my struggle is trying to like, you know. Essentially shift my focus, not focus, but like add the focus of, um, being like a content creator on top of trying to do like what I aimed to try and do originally. You know,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

it, it's almost like you're adding another job on top of it basically,

Nik Cherwink:

Totally. Yeah. Back to back to what we were saying before where it's like, yeah, you kind of came up in the era where it was more about the music. It was like if you just made really cool shit, there was just less of it out there, so a lot more people kind of would've gravitated to it, and now there's so many more people doing it. And being an artist is about so much more than just the music. It's like, it's about the whole, the whole world that you're creating now. And social media is obviously a big part of that, so very different. are you?

Graeme:

a,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

weird time to be alive,

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How do you feel about creating content and kind of playing the, the TikTok generation game, you know?

Graeme:

I don't love it. I don't love it. Like I, uh, I'm definitely not great in front of a camera. I, you know, I, uh, it's definitely a downfall of mine. Definitely, like, introverted naturally, and,

Nik Cherwink:

Mm.

Graeme:

just like camera shy, like, it, it is very different, like, on stage and it's just like, it's someone's feeling you, like DJ or whatever like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

different. But

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

it's you and then Cameron talking and stuff like that, that's where it's kind of like, ugh. Like, It just, it like. I feel like it can very easily feel forced, you

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like this, this, this really is the million dollar question for a lot of artists is that it's like, okay, I, I. Love making art. I love making my music. I'm, I'm happy to, you know, promote my songs and obviously play shows and we can film, film cool content around that. But it kind of seems like, it's almost like it's not enough now. You know, like there is like a demand for people want more from you in a way, right? Like, I want more of the artist. I want you to show me what you're having for lunch and talk to me and, you know, tell me stories and stuff. So if we look at it from that perspective, I guess like. What else do you, and could you, and are you talking to your fans about? Besides just like, Hey, I have a new song coming out and here's me playing a show.

Graeme:

Um, I mean that, that's, that's a lot of it. This is definitely a lot of that.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

I mean, like, I, I, I mean, I post my dogs sometimes. I got, I got two dogs. Like, it's a bit of that, like I, I don't know. It's like I've always had the mentality of like having my, my private life, like separate to like my profess professional life, but those like lines are getting blurred now. So it's

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

to bring a little, trying to bring a little bit more of that into it. But like, I know like sometimes they'll post like food or or something like that, or. Yeah, I don't know.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

a weird one for

Nik Cherwink:

It's a hard, it's a hard question, man. What would you say the phase one brand is all about?

Graeme:

the, um, like the EDM metal stuff, um, I. I feel like that's kind of the, that's kind of the main stick, I guess.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

um, but like, I dunno, like, um, I feel like, I feel like there's like definitely an emphasis on like, like solid engineering as well, like in the, in the songs specifically. That's like something I strive for is like, like, um, making like this cool composition, like compositionally cool songs

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Graeme:

just like. Just like a, a, a DJ friendly song. It's like, you know, uh, intro or that's like build drop, build drop kind of

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

if, if you hear the album, like there's like, it's like actual songs, I guess.

Nik Cherwink:

Totally.

Graeme:

Like there's like verses choruses and like bridges and like other sections that like aren't like traditionally like in like an EDM structure, I guess.

Nik Cherwink:

Well, let's talk, let's talk about the album Terra Nova. There seems to be a theme and a story around this. Tell me about what's the album about?

Graeme:

Yeah, so Terranova, um, it essentially translates from Latin, uh, it means new earth. It took us a while to kind of like figure out like the, uh, the whole theme around the album. Like,'cause at first when I was writing, like when I first started writing the album, it was more just trying to think of ideas and all that sort of stuff. Um, but then after we, after I'd written like enough content, me and my manager kind of sat down and was like. We need to figure out a name for the album, first of all. And also we wanna figure out some like themes and stuff.'cause like we want it to be like a full album project. Like we don't want us to be, want it to be just a bunch of tunes like slapped together, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

so yeah, we came with the idea of Terra Nova, um, and with like a lot of cool like activations around that. So there's a lot of like environmental, um. Like themes, essentially, um, like if you've seen the artworks, like, um, like there's three singles and like the main, um, the main album artwork.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

single is, the first single artwork is essentially, um, like, uh, like, um, Genesis, it's like the earth brand new as it was intended kind of thing. Then you move on to single two, uh, which is basically that bush, like that tree burning,

Nik Cherwink:

Mm

Graeme:

it, it basically symbolizes like, um, humanity's like destruction on the planet

Nik Cherwink:

mm.

Graeme:

and like what, what we're doing to the, to the planet.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

single three, uh, it's like a, a desolate tree with no leaves, like crows and stuff like that. And it's kinda like, that's kind of like the aftermath of like, uh, humanity's like reign of terror on the planet. And then it leads to the final, the final artwork, which is like the, the Terranova, um, album artwork. And that's essentially the new Earth post-human, essentially. Like, it's almost like mother nature will always prevail

Nik Cherwink:

Mm.

Graeme:

of thing.

Nik Cherwink:

Cool. Cool.

Graeme:

that's that, that's, that's that. And that we've done like a lot of, um, environmental themes around it. Like we're doing, uh, uh, actually this weekend we're doing an album listening party. so we basically, uh, selected like 2020 like, uh, like top fans to come join us and we're gonna be like planting trees and

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

kind of thing. So there is a lot of cool, like, um, like, uh, stories to tell,

Nik Cherwink:

This is so cool. I, I, I saw your, I saw your Instagram post about that. That's in partnership with Space Yacht, right?

Graeme:

space yacht and,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Trees. Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

Super cool.

Graeme:

LA like, um. Environment group that they do like a lot of cool stuff like that.

Nik Cherwink:

Awesome. And I have a really, a really fun and hilarious episode out with the Space Yacht. Guys, if you guys haven't heard that episode, go check that one out. Rami and Henry are fucking hilarious. So shout out Space Yacht. Um, but that's so cool. So there's this theme of in environmentalism here. Um, why is this important to you? Why did you choose this as the, as the theme for, for the album?

Graeme:

I think like it kind of just ties in with the whole turnover thing and like the new earth and everything. So it, it kind of like was trying to make, make it relate. You know, it's, it is definitely something I've, I've learned a lot about in the last year as well. Um, uh, the, the, the guy that used to own, uh, U-N-F-D-A record label I used to release with in Australia, it's like a, a metal label. He has now started a com. He, he's now a part of a company called, uh, green Australia. And, um, they're, they're doing like a lot of, um, activations for like, um, it's essentially just music, um, like touring music and how to make it greener, With like, um, like carbon offsetting and stuff like that. And like, um.

Nik Cherwink:

Cool.

Graeme:

Just like, like materials that they use in, in terms of like, like building stuff

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

so we had, we had, we had a really good, um, we had a really good chat with him, um, uh, like maybe like a year ago or something,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

of once we, um, figured out like were trying to do with the album. so that was really inspiring. Um, like I'm, I'm a huge advocate for like recycling in general.

Nik Cherwink:

There we go.

Graeme:

Um, with, with the album, we're also gonna be offsetting ev every single like plane and stuff like that, offsetting the carbon every single, like I do as

Nik Cherwink:

How do you do that?

Graeme:

Um, so you, you can basically just, you can basically pay companies to like plant trees for you and like,

Nik Cherwink:

Oh, okay.

Graeme:

um, o often you can do it through like the airlines. So like, there's usually an option for like carbon, carbon offsetting

Nik Cherwink:

Oh, wow.

Graeme:

pay it and like, then they. People, people with the group plant trees and shit.

Nik Cherwink:

So however much carbon monoxide or whatever. Is that what It's carbon. Carbon monoxide, right?

Graeme:

uh, C carbon. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Carbon

Graeme:

like

Nik Cherwink:

is what the Yeah, that's what the emissions that these, yeah. Planes are giving out. So basically planting a tree to compensate for however much is going that, that's really cool.

Graeme:

yeah, I mean there's, there's, you know, there's not whole that you can do. Like, like it's it's best efforts, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

every little bit counts. Um, we're, we're, we're also doing like vinyls. This is the first time I've ever done vinyl and we've, uh, we're going through, um, this company in Brisbane, Australia called, um, what are they called? Su Suitcase records.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

And they're, they're one of two places in the world that do, like recycled, uh. Recycled, um, vinyl

Nik Cherwink:

Oh, wow.

Graeme:

it's just, they use it making like, like, like recycled materials rather than, um, the other stuff, which is like super poisonous.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool.

Graeme:

that's a, that's a really exciting thing to do.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

it's also my first time doing vinyl, so that's

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

and ter and terrifying.

Nik Cherwink:

Well there's your content. Right there is the, the environmentalism, planting trees, like all of that, like that's your outside of the music stuff that I think is really cool. That will, will definitely resonate with the audience. I love that. And, and just to get that message out and, and even letting, I didn't even know that that's possible, that you could like offset. Carbon emissions through planes, you know, so that's a really cool, cool message to spread. Now when it comes to dropping an album, what inspired you to do an album rather than just do a single every month for a year? You know, there's always this argument of like, singles are, singles are an album, right? Like, why would, why would somebody really go through dropping an album?'cause I've also heard from big artists as well where they're like, damn, album is a lot of work. We kind of dropped all our music at one time and it didn't necessarily get as much like love as they wanted. So what was the, the mindset behind making that decision?

Graeme:

I think, uh, like my first album album came out six years ago, so I think one, it had been enough time where we're like, you know. We need to do another one. I think like a bigger project, you know? So like, when, when it actually comes to releasing it, like you can put so many more resources into it. And like, like, it's almost like singles, like there's, there's almost like incentive to like be spending like big ad budgets and stuff like that on,

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Graeme:

when with the album project, there's like, like. There's a huge team effort, like our, our distributors like fully involved in it, like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

our whole team's like hands on deck. and it's just like, you know, there's, just more to talk about. And because it's, it's, there's, it's more of a story

Nik Cherwink:

yeah,

Graeme:

here's a new song, here's a new song kind of

Nik Cherwink:

yeah, yeah. There's no story behind those really.

Graeme:

yeah. And, and the cool thing about doing an album is you can do singles as well,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

know,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Do like the waterfall release.

Graeme:

Essentially, yeah. So like, you know, like we, we, a 10 song album. We've done like three singles, kind of like, like spaced apart by like a month each. And then, um, and then yeah, the full album drops. Um, so people are getting, you know, seven new songs

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

essentially. Um, and yeah, like the, there's some stuff on there that's, um, people would've heard before, like, especially if, you know, if you came to a, came to shows or whatever, like you would've

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

me play them. Um,

Nik Cherwink:

I saw you got some, some familiar faces and homies on the album. Micah Martin I saw is on there. My girl, Hades, Savannah's on there. Awesome, awesome people. I haven't had Micah on yet, but I got a awesome episode with Hades as well. One of my first like. Five episodes or something, and she's a badass. So definitely check that one out as well. Um, now you said, you know, when you're putting out an album, there's kind of justification for, spending a little bit more money to actually like, promote it. Where and what do you actually spend money on when you're promoting? Are you, is this like running Facebook ads? Like where, where's, where does the budget actually go?

Graeme:

Yeah, a a lot of it is ads. So like, Spotify has marquee so that there's like Spotify ads essentially. then there's like, uh, TikTok and meta ads. Um, there, there, there's, there's an argument to do Google ads, but like, I feel like they're

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

'cause

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah.

Graeme:

wanna target like more specific audiences. Um, but then there's like, you know, budget behind like, um, uh. Like, for this kind of project, it's like I have to pay, um, like the, the, the feature vocalist, like, you know, tons of money and stuff like that. So it's like,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

single, it's like, would you wanna spend like thousands, thousands of dollars? Like, on like making, like, like on like a, on paying a vocalist, you know? It's

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

it's hard to justify, it's hard to, harder to justify if it's just like a one off thing, like one off song.

Nik Cherwink:

for sure.

Graeme:

project, like, it, it, it all falls back into like the, the pot, like the budget. so there, this, it's more, it's more incentive to, um, yeah. Like go out there and get like, like pay for like the bigger feature or whatever, you know

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, totally. And, and then, because that's also gonna be like. You might not tour off of a single, you know, to just like be promoting a single, but I imagine dropping an album, there's, you could kind of then really leverage that into doing a whole tour, supporting the album as well, and really make the money back there on the touring.

Graeme:

E. Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's kind of like, I guess that's kind of like arguably the biggest part, I guess it's

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

the, the touring aspect because like, you know, that's kinda how it works. Like album tour, you know, it's kind of,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

kind of like, that's kind of the model that we've, in the music industry we've kind of been doing for, you know, decades, you

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, for sure.

Graeme:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

So you have a, you have a tour, that you're launching, relatively soon as well around this.

Graeme:

Yeah, so album comes out like this week, and then tour starts next week,

Nik Cherwink:

Okay. Boom.

Graeme:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

go

Graeme:

straight in, straight into it and

Nik Cherwink:

diving straight in. Great.

Graeme:

it. Yeah. I think we've announced like 35 dates or something, but there's, there's, there's

Nik Cherwink:

Awesome.

Graeme:

to be

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What tips would you have for somebody that's considering writing an album? It sounds like a, sounds like a lot of work.

Graeme:

It is definitely daunting. Definitely daunting. Um, I don't know. Like, I think,'cause like I, I, I've heard a lot of albums, especially in like the EDM world and, and like sometimes it does just feel like just a bunch of songs that they've, they've had sitting there for ages that they've just kind of slapped together.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Uh, that's fine. That's fine. Whatever. You know, there's, there's no, there's no rules. There's no wrong or right. But like for me, an album should feel like cohesive and like, it should have like a lot of like, it, it, it's your one time, it's your one time to experiment and like do

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Graeme:

you know? cause like you wouldn't normally do, like, experiment with a different genre and release it if you were just doing like, like one offs, one-off

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Graeme:

Right.

Nik Cherwink:

Why wouldn't you do that?

Graeme:

and. Well, I'm not, I'm not saying you couldn't, but like I feel like, um, we don't see it. I

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

see it. I feel like people kind of stick to like what sells and what's gonna get them the next booking kind of thing,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

but

Nik Cherwink:

how do you feel about that actually, because that's a, that's a common thing I, I hear a lot of people asking is like, you know, should I just find my sound and make the same sound so that there's some consistency and I'm kind of hitting the same market? Versus, a lot of people are kinda like, well, I like making kind, maybe a couple different sounds. Maybe I like. Dubstep. And I also like drum and bass and I also even maybe like house music. I don't know, what are, what are, what are your thoughts on that as an artist?'cause I, I can see how from a business perspective it makes sense to be consistent, but also as an artist you kinda wanna have freedom too. So what's your perspective on that?

Graeme:

Yeah. I mean, for me, for me personally, I just get bored really quickly. Like,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

I, I need variation.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah.

Graeme:

would, like, if I was just making the same old thing over and over again, I would just be like, this,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Like,

Nik Cherwink:

Sounds boring.

Graeme:

that's my perspective. I can totally see why people do it and why it works. I totally get that. um, yeah, I, I just need variation, like constantly,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

like, yeah. And, um, yeah, I, I also just love experimenting with other, oth other genres and stuff like that.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. How much are you paying attention to? The industry and the music business, when it comes to actually like creating music.

Graeme:

like a lot because like I also run a record label. So I need to kind of keep on top of what's cool as well. So it, it, it's almost like but like, like research for like, for self knowledge and for the label, but also for like my project as well. So like, like I feel like me keeping on top of what's relevant and cool helps me know what not to do when I'm writing my songs, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Mm.

Graeme:

or, or, or what to do.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Graeme:

So that definitely is like a, a huge factor. Um, but also just like, you know, like touring and stuff like that. You, you hear what people play. You hear what's, what's, what's cool. Like you hear what everyone's, you know about.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Um, that's, that's definitely a huge part of it, I think.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And so with this album, you, you feel like you had a little more room to kind of expand or just, uh, experiment and explore? Um, yeah. What, what was inspiring you with the creation of this album, and what directions were you kind of exploring here?

Graeme:

Um, I definitely tried a few different other genres that I hadn't done before. Like, I made a, I made a brake tune, I'd never done before. Um, and it turned out really, really cool. Um. Yeah, we couldn't expect it. Like I, I had no idea what I was doing, but like, um, essentially just going off like, like I, I'm, I'm huge fans of like, um, like, uh, night Punk and Imani and stuff like that.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Graeme:

And like, I essentially kind of wanted to like, make, uh, an track inspired by them, but like, but also make it metal.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

I don't know. It it, yeah, it was a weird one. And, and it turned out super good. Like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

like a, it got the vocalist of, um, uh, banks arcade from New Zealand

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

on it.

Nik Cherwink:

And, and you feel like if you had just dropped like a brake tune as a single outta nowhere, like it'd be kind of a weird, it'd be kind of a weird move to make'cause people wouldn't really be expecting that.

Graeme:

Yeah, I mean, like there'd be, there'd be nothing wrong with it. I just don't think it would've, I just don't think it would get as much traction as if it was like part of something greater, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah.

Graeme:

Um, yeah. And like there, there's like, there's other songs down there, like there's a drawing bass on there, like. Like I am known to make drum bass occasionally. I kind of do it like, maybe like every blue moon, but like, um, but, but being, being from Australia as well, like, we have such a huge, like, drum bass, like, um, like the, the fandom there is crazy. Like Australian, Australian New Zealand is like for drum bass as, as well as Europe. But like New Zealand, dude, it's like drum bass mecca.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah,

Graeme:

Like

Nik Cherwink:

yeah,

Graeme:

they play it on the ra, they, they play it on the radio. Like, it's like, like, it's like pop music.

Nik Cherwink:

for sure.

Graeme:

Um, yeah, so it's like I, I, I feel like they've got a good ear for drum bass.'cause like a lot of people, like a lot of, uh, people hate when dubstep producers make drum bass'cause like, they don't know, like, it, it, it always sounds like it was made by a dubstep producer, you

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

Graeme:

it's got like, it's got dubstep drums in it and like dubstep bass noise. It's like, no, this

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, but that's, but that's the stuff that actually I, I had a good, good chat with Joe Wiseman, who's the head of, uh, insomniac Records and I was asking him like, what's, what's the shit that's like really coming up? You know, like, what's the next wave? And he was really advocating about drum and bass. And it's funny'cause I've, I've. I have recently, well, not so recently, maybe the last two years, like really got into, into drum and bass, but it is the more dub steppy production sounding drum and bass because as Americans we're a little bit more familiar with that sound, you know? And so it's like, it's like hitting over here in a different way, which is yeah, really interesting, but makes sense.

Graeme:

Yeah, I mean, drone base had a great, great like lot the last like, like, know, year and a half has been really strong

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

for drone

Nik Cherwink:

huge.

Graeme:

is, which is great to see, you know, it's like, and like, like literally like since I moved here like eight years ago, everyone, it's always been like next year's, the year for drum bass, next year's,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

And we've always, we've said it year in year in year again. But then like, it's kind of finally happened a little bit

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah, totally. This, this is, this is the year maybe, or maybe next year will be even bigger.

Graeme:

maybe. Hopefully,

Nik Cherwink:

yeah. As an Australian, uh, I've worked with a lot of Australians before. Were you anxious to leave Australia to, to move out? To the states to be kind of in a, a bigger playing field.

Graeme:

Yeah. I kind of like outgrew Australia'cause like, you know, I, I, I love my country, but like, there's only so much you can do there. There's only, you know, there's like five cities you can really play

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

you can, you can only do those like once or twice a year, you know, so it's like. There's just not much there. So I, I definitely like reached the ceiling of that,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

pretty quickly,

Nik Cherwink:

When,

Graeme:

Zealand as well, and,

Nik Cherwink:

When were you able to make that move?

Graeme:

I got my first US Visa in 2016 and then did a tour then. And that was my first introduction to Amer America in general. Like I'd never been before. Never really had much interest in going actually as

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

So I, I did that and then I was like, holy shit. Like, um, like I could, uh, you know, sustain myself just doing this and like quit my day job or whatever, you know.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

So yeah, it, it was pretty, it was pretty daunting at first.'cause then like six months later I did that. I, I moved. so it was, it was definitely scary going from being like, I guess, you know, being like a big fish in a small sea in Australia to then going to America and being like a small fish again.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

was kind, that was, that was kinda like a weird like, um, a weird mentality thing to go through.

Nik Cherwink:

Also just like fit in and like, you know, like, um, find my place and like, you know. Yeah.

Graeme:

just, just go, go through all the motions of moving to another country. You know, like getting a social security, getting a, like redoing my driver's license in, in America, like doing all the, you know, stuff

Nik Cherwink:

yeah, yeah, because I, I think, I think there's a lot of people, there's like Canadian people that I know as well, Australians, you know, people that are. Wanting to, to move here, but that's, it's a hard thing to do when it comes to visas, just also just the reality of picking all your stuff up and moving to the other side of the world. But for you, you, you already had a tour going on. You were already starting to get booked and play shows, and that's when you knew basically that there was demand for you to be able to make that move.

Graeme:

That's kind of how you get the visa. Like you basically need to show the government that there's a demand for you.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

Graeme:

like you essentially need to. got a booking agent that are essentially booking you, like shows They need to write a whole list of the shows that you've got coming up and you need to send that to the government and be like, this is what's going on. Like, he's, he's needed here. And they'd

Nik Cherwink:

yeah,

Graeme:

then

Nik Cherwink:

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Graeme:

the fee and all that. Um, but like, yeah, it's, it's getting harder and harder to, um, get the visa these days. Like

Nik Cherwink:

Really?

Graeme:

did it was, yeah, it's already, it's already more than doubled in price since, since, since I'd got my first one.

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

Graeme:

And like, you know, with the, with the new, um, um, president and all that, it's Got it, it's all these new laws. Like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

they just, I think they

Nik Cherwink:

they're just more strict.

Graeme:

I think they just blocked like 40 plus countries from even being able to apply,

Nik Cherwink:

Wow.

Graeme:

know?

Nik Cherwink:

Crazy.

Graeme:

Crazy. Um, so the one, the expense is like, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's becoming. Almost not even worth it'cause of the expense.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

And then like, just comes down to like, who, like what office do you get the day of like this selection? Like they might, you might just get someone that's having a bad day and it's like, no, no, no. You know, even, even though you're like, even though you're fully like, you know, credentialed up,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Oh wow.

Graeme:

but

Nik Cherwink:

Damn.

Graeme:

like. Luckily for me, I, I got my green card last year, so like I don't have to worry about that visa stuff anymore. But like I've, I've been through it and I, and I feel for everyone that's going through it, like

Nik Cherwink:

It. Yeah.

Graeme:

rough one.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Now, coming from Australia specifically, do you suffer from what they call tall poppy syndrome? Have you noticed that in transitioning from Australia to to America?

Graeme:

I've heard the expression, can, can you remind me what it means again?

Nik Cherwink:

So, so basically what they say is like, tall poppy syndrome is something that Australians have where you basically don't let each other be too proud. It's like, like you kind of get cocky, you know, like, don't be like a, a tall poppy in the field. Like, you need to basically really be humble. And so a lot of Australians kind of struggle with, with. Dare I say, maybe celebrating themselves. Or like, like allowing themselves to be like really proud of themselves where they like actually have to kind of tone it down. Whereas a lot of Americans are like too cocky. They think they're the shit, you know?

Graeme:

Sure. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Yeah. I, I, yeah, I guess so. Like, I can, I, I can kind of see it like I don I definitely see some Aussies that like get ego and all that, but it's like, it kind of, you know, it's, it's inevitable in this industry, like, you know, whatever. Like, if, if you wanna be proud of yourself, that's fine, but I feel like. I feel like when, when ego steps into it, it's kinda like you're just overcompensating for something there. I

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's an interesting balance though too.'cause it can kind of go the other way or it can, the pendulum can swing the other way too, where it's like, obviously if you're, if you're being cocky, your ego's too big. You know, then you think you're better than other people. Right?

Graeme:

totally,

Nik Cherwink:

at the same time, sometimes we don't allow ourselves. To actually own how great we truly are. Right? Like, like, I wanna own the fact that like, no, I'm, I'm awesome. I'm a badass. Like I'm great. Normally we have the other voice in our head saying like, no, you suck. You're a piece of shit. Everybody's better than you. Right? So it can kind of go the other way where there's a, there's, it's, it's also, I think, good to own and own our greatness, and to be proud and to celebrate ourselves as well.

Graeme:

I feel like I should, I should definitely do that more.'cause I, I, I always just feel like I'm not doing enough,

Nik Cherwink:

Uh, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and that's, that's just such a real, it's such a real thing I think for a lot of us, anyone that is, you know, ambitious and chasing dreams and goals, and especially in. In an industry or just owning your own business in general. There's always a million more things to do. Like there's never, it is never enough. There's always the next level. There's always 500 tasks I haven't completed yet, right? So when does it actually ever end? And when are we ever actually there? You know, like when, what, what is the destination where you can finally be happy and be proud of yourself? Right? There's, it's always, there's always another level. There's always like the horse chasing a carrot on the stick. So if we don't learn how to be. Happy and proud now. And feel successful now. There's the, the, the destination is imaginary. We're never gonna get there.

Graeme:

Well, I mean, like what, what is a destination? You know? Like just keep, keep, keep making cool art.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. I dunno. What is, what is it,

Graeme:

really like.

Nik Cherwink:

is it for you? Yeah. Just make, just keep making cool art.

Graeme:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I guess so like, as, as long as I can sustain myself, just make an art. Like that's, I, I guess that's already the goal, you

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. You've, you've already arrived, man. You're there.

Graeme:

but like, I don't know. It's like, like, what else is there two

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. But do you, do you feel like you've, you're there, do you feel like you've arrived or do you feel like there's still

Graeme:

feel like I'm there.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, exactly. I.

Graeme:

But like e even, even though like, you know. I should, I should be very content where I'm at, but like, I'm not, like, you know, it's weird.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, it's wild, man. It's a weird, it's a weird, weird paradox, right? It's like, if, if success is making music every day, being able to live off of it, right? Oh, you're there. You're already doing it. Yeah, there's still a part, you know, I think for all of us to, to a certain degree, there's also still a part of us that feels like, well, we're not there. There's somewhere else we're supposed to be. I think that's the trap. you know, It's what I call playing the inside out game rather than the outside in game. The outside in game is, well, let me, I. Drop the album and do the tour and, you know, get to that next level. And then I will feel like I'm there, but we're chasing it forever versus the inside out game is like learning how to be like, wait a minute, no. Like, I'm, I've already arrived. I can, whatever feeling I'm chasing the feeling of joy, the feeling of fulfillment, the feeling of, of contentment. It's like, that's actually available to me now. I gotta learn how to like,

Graeme:

Hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

be in that energy and in that feeling now and, and come from that place.

Graeme:

It's kinda going back to what you said at the beginning with like celebrating the, like the wins or whatever, you know.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

Um, but also I, I feel like a huge part of that kind of plays into like, comparison. Like you, like you're always gonna like look at your peers. Who are, you know, doing, doing this and that, and you're like, oh, like God. Like, maybe that's the level I could strive to, kind of thing. So like, is that their next goal kind of thing? Or you know, is that their next destination? It's hard not to compare, you know?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. It's a big one. You know, I had a big. A big perspective shift around, around comparison. Um, and if we, if we get a little woowoo, a little like law of attraction woowoo real quick. It's like when we compare ourselves to somebody else and if we feel. Any kind of jealousy or resentment around it, like, damn, they're, they're killing it. They have this thing, and, and I don't. And well then we bring ourselves into the energetic vibration and frequency of jealousy and resentment and basically like lower level. Vibration. And so basically I'm seeing success and I'm having like a, a, a low vibration reaction to it. So the universe is like, all right, well you obviously don't like what you see happening over here, so I'm not gonna give any of it to you, as opposed to when I see somebody, somebody, I compare myself to somebody and I see somebody killing it, and then I celebrate them. What that does is that brings me in the energy of celebration, and now I'm at a high vibrational frequency, and now the universe is like, oh, okay, you're like an energetic match to what's happening over here. Let's give you some of that also, and I know it sounds a little bit woo woo, but I always just say like, fucking play with try it out for 30 days, man. Like when you see anyone, you, anyone, you catch yourself comparing yourself to just like celebrate the fuck outta them. Be like hell yeah.'cause if they can have it, so can I. Right? But, but it's, it's, it's such a real thing, man. Especially. Yeah. You're, you're getting billed on a certain. Layer of the lineup and this guy's getting billed there and why, you know, it's, it's a whole, it's a whole head game, but when you are come playing the inside out game, it's like, yo, I'm, I've already there. I'm already arrived, I'm already celebrating everything and everyone. And that ultimately has a result that opens up so many more doors. And I know it sounds a little woowoo man, but try it out.

Graeme:

I like it. I, I like it. Yeah. I, I feel like I probably definitely need more of that in my life, like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. I, I, um. I worked with, uh, with Sippy for a little while, and that was her actually, we're still technically working together, but speaking of, uh, fellow Australians, she was one that we, we worked through the, the tall poppy syndrome. I was like, sippy, you gotta, you can fucking be proud of yourself. All right.

Graeme:

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

Uh, but that was a big one. You know, when she came in it was just like getting caught up in comparison. But like, once I introduced her to that, I was like, yo, you just start celebrating everybody. And it was like. She would hit me up and be like, you'll never guess what happened. I just got like the highest offer I've ever had before, and we just got booked. All these more shows and like, all this shit started changing in her life simply from her, just changing her energy and her mindset. So it's powerful stuff.

Graeme:

I like it. I like it.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. All right, let's wrap it up with this man. You know, there's a lot of artists listening right now that are, that are coming up in the game, that are chasing their goals, chasing their dreams. Open-ended question. What advice would you have for any artists out there that are, coming up and, and pursuing this path right now?

Graeme:

There's two sides to it. I think like, um, same, same kind of answer I've always kinda given forever Is that, is like, like be present in your local scene. Whatever that, I think that that's, that's very important. Make friends with all the locals, get to know the promoters. Like that's, that's a huge one that's kind of always mattered. but these days with the, um, with the saturation of like, everyone's a dj, everyone's a producer now, it's like, how do you actually stand out? I think you just need, really need to like, find your sound and like find something that just hasn't been done or like slightly different. Just like you just, or just have like a unique sound design like. With all the tools accessible these days, like, it's so easy to become Like just download a whole

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

Graeme:

of that someone else has made and be like, learn from that kind

Nik Cherwink:

yeah. Or get on AI now and have it make a song for you. Right. It's getting crazy.

Graeme:

like never, we never had any of that when we were like starting, like we, we, we were just guessing, you know? But these, but these days, like all, like all the groundwork's done, like you can download anything and make it sound good, like super easy. so like how do you stand out if everyone's good and doing that, you know? so it's, yeah, like obviously time and, you know, skill and all that like. gonna come huge into it, but like, just finding something that someone hasn't done is like said than done. Right. But

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

that's kind of it, like, you know, like, how else will you stand out? Like

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

Graeme:

really?

Nik Cherwink:

Just, yeah, make a lot of really cool TikTok videos and be shitty at music. That's the other path.

Graeme:

Well, yeah. There's also that. There's also that. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

No. Yeah, man. No, I love that. I think that is really so important. It all does really, at least from my perspective. There's an argument maybe against, you know, the importance of content, which that's the marketing vehicle, but like, you gotta have good music in the first place. You gotta be bringing something unique and interesting and, and something that's gonna land. So always stay focused on that.

Graeme:

that is the reason why most of us got into this in the first place is like, purely, purely for the music, you know? So it's like. If the lines get blurred between that, it's like, uh, like where do we stand? You know?

Nik Cherwink:

yeah, yeah. What's the point? Right. Well, speaking of music, congratulations on dropping your album Terra Nova. Everybody go out there and listen to it. It is out and um, and it is fire. So excited to hear the rest of it. I've only heard the first few songs that are, that are released right now, but I'll be checking it out this weekend and I hope the rest of you guys do as well. And, uh, Graham, thank you so much for jumping on today, man.

Graeme:

Thanks for having me, man.

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