DR. SUNNI LAMPASSO - DJ Mental Health: How to Stay Focused and Avoid Burnout

In a music industry that never stops moving, how do you stay grounded, intentional, and actually enjoy the journey?

This week I’m joined by Dr. Sunni, a licensed psychologist and coach for DJs and creatives, whose work sits at the intersection of mental health and the electronic music industry. We dive into the deep end of artist mindset — from burnout and comparison to self-worth, imposter syndrome, and the hustle culture that keeps so many artists stuck.

We get into:

• How to stay connected to your purpose when social media takes over
• The trap of chasing external validation (and how to break free from it)
• The common challenge of imposter syndrome 
• Simple tools to rewire your brain and create lasting mindset shifts
• Why mindfulness is the antidote to burnout — and how to actually practice it

Whether you’re trying to grow your brand, build momentum, or just keep your sanity intact, this one’s full of grounded wisdom and real talk.

🎧 Tune in, take notes, and share it with a friend who needs it.

Follow Dr. Sunni here:
https://www.instagram.com/shaping_success

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Transcript

Dr. Sunni: 0:00

You've gotta still be connected to the why of why you started doing this in the first place.'cause if you lose that, then, then what are you really doing?

riverside_nik_cherwink_raw-video-cfr_nik_cherwink's stud_0336: 0:17

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset podcast. This week's guest is a licensed psychologist and mindset coach that works specifically with electronic music artists and DJs. And as someone who first and foremost still considers myself a life coach, I was really, really excited to connect with her because she's one of the very few other people that I've seen that's out there doing the same kind of work that I do. So in this episode, we get into the mental game behind what it takes to succeed in the music industry. We talk about burnout and imposter syndrome, the pressure to stay relevant and how to stay connected to your purpose when everything seems to start revolving around social media and chasing numbers. So if you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or disconnected from your why, you're gonna love this episode. This is Dr. Sonny La Paso.

Nik: 1:09

Sonny, welcome to the show. I am so excited to be diving in with you because you are one of the very few other coaches that I have met that is really specifically in this zone of not only helping, you know, DJs and artists, but like really on the mindset side of things. You are a doctor, a psychologist. Like I got so excited when I connected with you online. I'm like, oh my God. There's another one, there's another coach out there that is helping with this very important mindset piece of being an artist and navigating the electronic music industry. So, uh, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to meet you and really looking forward to diving in with you.

Dr. Sunni: 1:55

Thanks for having me, Nick. So excited to meet you too. Um, we're. So aligned in so many ways. So really happy to be here and can't wait for this conversation. And you know, also talking about what we might do together as well.

Nik: 2:08

Yeah, totally. So I would love to just start off hearing your story. How the heck did you end up being a coach for DJs?'cause I asked myself that same question. I'm like, how did this happen? How did I end up here? This was not something that I wrote on my goals list someday. I just was like following the breadcrumbs of intuition and just like the universe brought me here. So I'm so curious about your story and how you ended up doing what you're doing today as well as what is it specifically that you are doing today?

Dr. Sunni: 2:36

Sure. Yeah, I think that's a great question and. It's really interesting how I ended up here really merging my passion and purpose together. It was never on my bingo card, you know, wasn't on the game plan. Um, but here I am and I guess, you know, really my whole career has been as a psychologist and even prior to that, all of my jobs have been, we're always helping people, um Right. Helping people in different ways and then becoming a psychologist. And interestingly like, so things kind of shifted over time. So I became a clinical psychologist, and then, you know, was thrown into a leadership position with no training in leadership and then thrown into starting my own business with no idea how to do that either. And, you know, over these experiences started to learn a lot from personal experience about. Um, failure right about, uh, learning by doing right. You have no idea what you're doing, you're just trying things, navigating that. And then also, you know, dealing with burnout myself. Um, so, you know, after becoming a psychologist, several years in, I started my own private practice where I really worked with two sorts of groups of people. And one of those groups was people struggling with issues related to work. Whether that was their boss, whether that was the work they were doing that wasn't fulfilling and they wanted to do something else, whether they were dealing with burnout, all sorts of things, because our work life affects us personally. Um, and then the other group that I was really working with were creatives. Whether they were actors, singers, or writers. Those were the three main groups and all of the struggles that they dealt with with writers, block facing rejection, performance. All of those types of things. And you know, after doing therapy for several years, um, somewhere along these lines, I got into dance music. My whole life has been music. I'm initially from the Bronx and was raised on hip hop. Like I was the biggest hip hop head. I, you have no idea. And, um, you know, never really was that into dance music, except when it was like mixed with hip hop. If it was, you know, jungle Brothers or, you know, de La Soul, where they were sort of bringing in some house elements, um, until really ACI and, um, you know, totally loved levels and started to get me to really cross over.

Nik: 5:08

I knew I liked you because a vichi is my number one all time favorite electronic music producer. Always will be rest in peace. But he's, he's my number one. So the fact that you just brought up aci, let's go. We are kindred spirits. Indeed.

Dr. Sunni: 5:23

We totally are. And, you know, achy le level, you know, levels. That was like the initial song and, you know, I had to use the word level in the title of my book, which I'll, you know, I'll talk about a little bit later. Anyway, so started while I'm doing this private practice, really getting into dance music. And about 10 years or so ago, attended my first festival and that was like, it, I, it was EDC, Puerto Rico. And, um, I probably, I knew like one artist that was playing and maybe like a few songs and I was just sort of completely blown away by the community, the sense of community, um. Just the whole vibe of it. Like, again, I didn't know any of the music. I had no idea, but I had the best time. It was like a changing experience for me. Like again, having grown up on hip hop, um, going to Summer Jam every year in New York or, you know, and being very familiar with the club scene and also, you know, knowing some people on the hip hop side of the industry. This was just a really different experience unlike anything ever before. So, um, I'm also a big foodie and traveler, so I was like, I need to go to more festivals. That's it. So I started traveling around festivals and going to festivals in different countries, and really sort of understanding the fan side of it, right, from how it is in different countries, how they respond to different artists, how the crowd changes based on the country you're in. And again, was just doing this. Out of my, like, love for it. Like I got so into it. Um, and started to get to know different DJs, you know, who were working in the industry, who were coming up and here's sort of their struggles. So at the same time, in this private practice, I kept thinking to myself, with all the people that struggled with work issues, it really sucks that things have to get so bad for people to come to therapy. Right? Like, why, why aren't things more proactive? Like, I wanna be on the other side of it because if work is better, right? If you're doing things that you enjoy that are aligned with your purpose and values, like it doesn't have to go there. So, um, that sort of led me five years ago to start a consulting business and, you know, getting training in executive coaching and leadership development and really doing work on the front end to make workplaces better, to help business owners be better leaders, right? Because it all starts with leadership, the CEO, um, you know, if they're doing better, if they have an idea of how they're managing themselves and leading themselves and how to lead people, things would be a lot better. So, at the same time as I'm working with these CEOs, I'm also, talking to different DJs because we're friends and I'm hearing some of their struggles and I'm like, this is not very different from what CEOs go through, right? You're, you're leading a team, you're building a business, most times you have no idea how to do it.

Nik: 8:29

Well, and you are the CEO of your own business. That's something I hammer home often is like when you are crossing over from just being an artist that's making music to, I want to be successful in the music business. You're not applying for a job somewhere to go be an employee. You are starting your own business. You are deciding that I'm going to be a self-employed entrepreneur, I'm gonna be running my own company. And that's a piece that really needs to get through to people's mind is like, you are running your own company. You are the CEO, like you're manager, you're agent, you're team like, yeah, you gotta run the team. So totally dead on. Like, I say that all the time as well. Like, yeah, you are a CEO. There is no

Dr. Sunni: 9:08

Come completely and like, you know, like you said, whether you're doing it all yourself or you get to the point where you can build a team to do that. There are so many different skills involved. In, you know, in figuring out how to do this and how to do it, you know, the right way. I mean, if there is a right way, but I mean with intentionally, I mean, and so I'm like, there is so much overlap, right? It's like the decision making under stress, the performance piece, the leading a team, the balancing everything, the, you know, the burnout component. So I'm like, why am I not doing this right? Like, I have an understanding, a deep understanding from the fan side. Um, you know, I'm starting to get to know and hear similarities in different stories of people I know who are DJs. Um, so that's sort of how it came to be. So really it was kind of a blending of like my work passion with my personal passion. And it's really been the most rewarding work I've done throughout my career.

Nik: 10:07

I love that. That's so cool. And, and then it's very similar for me as well, just blending the passions, right? It's like, I loved, for me, I loved music and then specifically got into the electronic music scene as well, you know, went to my first rave, had my life changed, discovered that world. And uh, and then also I always had a passion for personal development too. I was sitting there listening to Tony Robbins CDs and like diving into self-help books all the time. And it was like, wait a minute, these are the two things I love. And, you know, very naturally just found a way to kind of bring them all together. So, uh, I, I love that. I think, and I think that right there I think is so cool. And just for, you know. Artists to think about as well when it comes to like, even like building your brand, it's like, what's the stuff that you're into, what's the stuff that you're passionate about? Bring that into your world. You know, like bring, like, oh cool, you're into skateboarding. Like, great, bring the skateboarding into your brand. Talk about it. You know, I think just the ability to combine passions. Um, you know, for me, even just getting into the music business in general, it was like, I loved music and then I went to college and I had a business degree and I was like, oh, wait a minute. What if I combine those things and I worked in the music business, you know, there's so much opportunity out there when we, just think like, there's this cool, almost like middle of the Venn diagram where, where do all your passions kind of coexist and live, you know? So I love that.

Dr. Sunni: 11:25

I I completely agree. It's so funny, I have had this exact conversation with three different DJs this week already. Right? About how do you build your brand in an authentic way while, you know, bringing in things that you care about. Because I know when I connect with people, I wanna know what they care about. And that's, you know, when people are connecting with a dj, yes, they wanna like the music. But there's something more that keeps them there, right? Like, how do you bring in the things you care about? How do you also for yourself have other things that you care about? And then how does that help you build who you are and you know what your brand is actually

Nik: 12:01

yeah. So I'm very curious about what do you think are some of the biggest mental challenges? What are some of the biggest, like personal blocks and mindset challenges that you see DJs struggle with? You know, obviously there's a lot of the business challenges and they're all connected. Um, but you know, everyone's trying to figure out, how do I build a brand? How do I, you know, just build social media? And there's the business side of it, but more on like the personal side of it. What do you see artists really struggle with?

Dr. Sunni: 12:32

right. Well, you know, I think you bring up a great question because all of the personal, like mental roadblocks, they impact the business, right? For sure. So, I mean, I just think the, the hustle piece, right? That feeling like you can't take a break, that you can't stop, you'll be irrelevant. Um, you need to keep going. You need to grind 24 7. I think that can get in the way a lot. I mean, that's one big one. I think this constant comparison, sometimes it's comparison of yourself as an artist to others, but sometimes it's comparing yourself to yourself, right? And like feeling like this next track has to get the same numbers and streams. Um, and you know, that constant chase of trying to keep up. And then of course, the self-doubt, imposter syndrome, fear, those things I think they get in the way and cause us to start doing things that take us away from the goals.

Nik: 13:30

Yeah. So how do you help somebody balance or work through this constant grind? Because there's also something to be said for it is a grind. Like you do have to really work your ass off, you know, like, and so there's, there's like a reality to that. But also it can at some point become almost like self-destructive, right? Like, burnout is very, very real and you're not gonna get very far. So how do you help somebody that, uh, is struggling with that?

Dr. Sunni: 14:00

Yeah, I think that's, you know, it's, it is a struggle, right? Because you do have to be dedicated, you do have to be consistent. And like we were talking about in the beginning, you have to do it all. And then after that, when you're doing not doing it all, you have to manage the people doing it all and then still do everything else you're doing. So there is a lot, and you do have to be on a lot. But when I'm working with artists. I think it, what's really important is staying connected to values and purpose. And then, when I work with people, and I talk about this a lot in my book, I use a framework from a form of CBT, which is cognitive behavior therapy called act, um, which I won't get too much into here, but really what that does is a few things. One helps you stay connected to your purpose and values because once you lose that, bad things are happening. You know, self-destructive things can be happening, things that are not moving you toward your business goals are happening. So like it's important to keep those top of mind and stay connected to those and assess and reassess your values and purpose, which sometimes can change or become more important, less important, but also become more aware of those thoughts that are getting in your way. What are the thoughts that have you. Doom scrolling or you know, avoiding doing tasks you need to do. Recognizing those unhelpful thoughts, and feelings associated with those. And then from there, really developing techniques to, of mindfulness to like allow that stuff to be there while still staying focused on the purpose, your values, and then moving in that direction, like taking steps toward that, with an actual plan. Um, but I think the key is like understanding those thoughts are gonna be there. Like we have comparing thoughts, we have judgmental thoughts, we hard on ourselves, we feel like we can't do things. All those thoughts can be there. They probably will be there, but they don't have to like, take you away from moving towards your goal.

Nik: 16:08

Mm. So what specific techniques can someone use to be aware of those thoughts but not let them get the best of them? How do we actually really work through that?

Dr. Sunni: 16:21

Well, I think for different people, different things work, but I think visualization can be helpful. A lot of clients find it helpful. I also find it helpful, to really separate from those thoughts by using a visualization. One that I like is you are driving, you're driving the subway or the conductor and the thoughts. All of these thoughts.'cause sometimes they're coming so fast, right? All these negative thoughts and self-defeating thoughts. Um, they're passengers. It may be rush hour, they're all getting on and at some stops, certain people get off. Those thoughts get off. Sometimes they linger. But at the end of that shift. They're all leaving. Right? You're done. They're gone. But I think that sort of separation, that visualization of you are driving the subway, those thoughts are in the back. Um, you know, sometimes there's more, sometimes there's less, but you're still driving. Um, so that sort of helps to, you know, a, be more aware of them and b, not allow them to sort of take over.

Nik: 17:24

Yeah. I love that. You know, I came up with something similar myself at one point where, you know, every now and then you just get overwhelmed with just negative feelings. It's just the funk, I call it the quicksand. It's like you just wake up and you're in a shitty mood for no reason. And you know, it is like this energy kind of makes its way into, you know, not just your thoughts, but your emotions and your body, and you can feel that heaviness. And I remember one time I was like, you know what? Let me just. Invite this in. And it was like, I imagine, I'm like, all right, dude, you got, you wanna fucking say something? You're, you're, you're showing up on my doorstep. I'm gonna just open up the door. I'm gonna invite you in, and we're gonna sit down and we're gonna have a cup of tea. I'm gonna just be with you. Right? You want to complain about some shit? You got some, you got, you got a feeling. You need me to feel like, okay. But I,'cause I noticed usually where we're trying to make it go away, I don't want to think this thing, I don't wanna feel this thing. So let me, you know, force myself out of it rather than, okay, let me just be with it. Let me just accept it. Right. I like, okay, cool. All right. Do I need to just feel upset for a minute? Do I need a wine for a minute? I don't know what's there. What, what do you want me to hear? What do you want me to learn? So I just imagine like, like just having a, okay, come on in, have a cup of tea. Say your piece and then you can leave.

Dr. Sunni: 18:38

Exactly. 100%. I think it's like you have to be able to accept, right? Any of these thoughts that come and any of these associated feelings. Right? And I think that is a good strategy of allowing yourself to feel it. It's super helpful because again, we can't get rid of it. If we try to get rid of it, it gets worse.

Nik: 18:57

Yeah. What's that? What's that saying? What you resist persists,

Dr. Sunni: 19:00

That's it.

Nik: 19:01

Yeah. so we're talking about this is such a real thing, the constant grind, the constant struggle. You know, on the one hand you have declared and decided that like, I'm going to, be an entrepreneur. I'm going to really go for it and chase my dreams and establish myself as an artist and build a career doing this. And so., That does come with an extra level of just uncertainty and stress and pressure and, just hours that need to be put in. Right? Again, it's not a nine to five. There's not like a, there's not like an employee handbook that you get that, you know, like has it all laid out perfectly for you. So, with that does come that feeling of the constant grind, the constant pressure, I think anyone that's listening right now totally gets it right. Um, and you mentioned something that I think is really great about getting reconnected to your purpose, right? Really getting reconnected to your values and to your purpose because I think that so many artists that I see right now are. Often losing sight of that because it feels like so much of the game now is about how do I build my audience, I gotta get on social media. It's becoming so much more about creating content than it is about creating music. Right? I think for a lot of people, I got into this because I love music and I'm passionate about the art. And then at some point when you really start getting serious about the music business and building that business, then you have to be good at marketing. And so that means that most likely, you know, one of your best marketing tools is going to be on social media. Now a lot of artists are spending more time on social media than they are actually creating music. And that seems to have created a big gap between their actual purpose and their and the values that they have. Right? So what do you have to say around that? How do you help people like really close that gap and actually get reconnected to their purpose and why they started this whole thing in the first place?

Dr. Sunni: 21:07

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. Something that comes up all the time. I'm sure you help artists with this too. Um, that gap of feeling like, you know, now it's the social media grind. I have to do this, I have to do that. And people don't wanna do it, right? Like, I, I was one of those people actually with my own business. I'm like, I don't wanna put myself out there on social media. Like, no, this is not what I do. I do this, I help people in this way. I don't wanna do a video of myself. Right. Um, but I think for me, and you know, also for my clients, it's about how do you connect your purpose to what you're doing on social media? Right. Like, if you are feeling like you have to do this cringey post about something you don't care about, one, you're not gonna do it. Probably two, if you do it, you're gonna feel badly about it. So to those people, I say like, you should never do that. Like, if you, if this is not in line with who you are and what you're trying to do, don't do it.

Nik: 22:10

Yeah. It's draining.

Dr. Sunni: 22:11

What we, exactly what we talked about earlier, like bringing in other things you care about, showing people what you care about. That's easier, right? Because these are things you actually care about. Doing a post about, like somebody once asked me if they should do a post about, they said, a lot of their fans like, were vegan and, you know, should they be doing like, posts that relate to that? And I'm like, are you vegan? They were like, no. I'm okay. So like never, like you will never have a vegan post, please. It's like, this has to be aligned with who you are. And really like thinking about like, the purpose of social media is to bring people to your music and to you,

Nik: 22:52

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Sunni: 22:53

right? Like you've really gotta keep that in mind every time you're out there posting, when you're responding. Like, you know, a lot of times you are there to, you're there to connect with people, right? So how are you connecting? How are you showing up? Like, how do you show up for yourself and then, you know, how do you show up for social media? I think that mindset shift is really big. It really helped me get over like, oh, I don't wanna do a post about this or that. Where it's like, what is, what is the value you are bringing to your audience? Like for me, that changes it.

Nik: 23:25

Yeah. I think I've been leaning a little bit. I don't know if I've just been becoming more of a hardass these days, but I'm more leaning into, I'm finding myself lately just being like. Shut the fuck up and get over it. Like if you wanna build your business, you're gonna have to do things that aren't comfortable. Right? It's almost like, oh, I wanna just do the fun stuff and just be super successful and like, make a bunch of money and get to live my dream. Well, you know, I don't know if it really works that way anymore. There used to be a time where maybe you just get lucky and you post a song and it goes viral and everything comes to you. Cool. But, you know, realistically, it's 2025. Like, it's the different landscape now and it's kind of like. How badly do you want it? Like, are you willing to learn new skills? Are you learning to do things that aren't comfortable? Are you willing to like, roll up your sleeves? You know, it's, I think a lot of people are like, oh, I want this dream, but they're not willing to really do the work. And right now, like part of the work, it realistically it is that you gotta get out there and market yourself and, and you know, like I would love to just coach people all day. I would love to be like, oh my God, there's just a line of clients at my door and I don't have to do anything except the part of this that I love. But you know what, I gotta go make fucking clips from a podcast and like, put captions on it and, and you know what I mean? And send it out and, you know, or I also need to like hire a team to do that as well and, and start like really building it. But, I think for my, I think it's because for myself, I realized that as well, I somehow got lucky and was able to coach for years without really marketing. But I'm like, no, if you want to have a career, I don't care what business you're in, you know, we're, we're gonna have to, you know, do, do some marketing and that might not be the fun part, but it's kind of like, I think the artists that are willing to do the part that isn't fun, that are the ones that are gonna actually be able to build a career for themselves, you know?

Dr. Sunni: 25:19

Definitely, one thing that really resonated with me that you said was like, you have to get out of your comfort zone. And I completely agree with that, right? A lot of people don't, and artists or people in general don't really wanna show stuff on social media. But you have to sort of get over that. Like you said, marketing and social media is such a big component. It's a necessary component for success. I mean, you can't ignore it. You have to do it. You have to figure out how to do it. And I think for some people, like you said, you've been telling yourself or saying lately, like, shut the fuck up and just do it. Like, I think for some people that works like that, that say, that phrase may work, but for other people, I think it helps to say, okay, you have to do this in order to be successful. How are you gonna do it in a way that matters? Right? And you gotta push yourself out of your comfort zone if it's in line with your values and your purpose, right? Like your goals of success.

Nik: 26:15

yeah. And I, I think that's really where the gap is, is I think a lot of people are probably just like showing up and like, oh, I guess I need to like. Dance to my song, you know, I guess I need to like, you know, do this trend or whatever. And that's the part that's like, oh my God, this is so inauthentic and this is so cringey. And it's like, yeah, if we're trying to do it in a way that isn't aligned with our values and it, and it's not connected to like our purpose and it's, and it's inauthentic, then yeah, that's always gonna really suck. And so I think that really is the piece of like, okay, let's let you know, the softer approach is like, look, this, this is just, we gotta face this. This is something we gotta do. Um, and yeah, how can we do it in a way that feels good and, and explore that and, and play with that. But yeah, it's a, it's a big one for sure. You also mentioned comparison. That's a big one as well. I think a lot of people are looking at what other people are doing. And I see this as well with bigger artists where, okay, now you're touring and you're on the lineup, you're on the billing. And even artists that are, that are big, they're comparing themselves to the. Other artists that's getting billed above them. You know, once you get an agent, this is what booking agents are fighting for all the time, whose name is bigger on the flyer. And, you know, part of my French, it's a little bit of like a dick measuring contest, you know, like, okay, I got billed more. And, and, you know, also now getting paid more. So that's a hard thing to literally be sized up. Like the industry is literally sizing you up with other artists. Um, but also of course as you're coming up, you know, you're looking at like, oh this person is popping off or they're doing well and it's just so natural for us to compare. So how do you help somebody work through comparison and, you know, you mentioned imposter syndrome as well. Like that's another very common thing. How do you, how do you help someone work through that stuff?

Dr. Sunni: 28:03

Yeah. Well, I think, you know, again, those are so common and I think even when your name is in the bigger letters Right on that bill, it's still happening, right? Like again, it's like goes back to like, these thoughts are gonna be there. You're gonna have these thoughts. Right. But you can either let them stop you, right, and take you away from what's important. Or you can focus more on, the positive piece, right? Like, focus on comparing yourself to yourself, your own growth, right? Other people are doing what they're doing. And you know what, that's fine if you're, if you're into what they're doing, take inspiration from them. Also, you know, like I think we get into this thing where social media shows people that look like they're an overnight success, right? Like, it's never an overnight success. Social media is like 99% of the time showing you only the good stuff. Um, so like, that's not real. Like, it's not a fair comparison. You need to be tracking your own progress, measuring your own growth, and keeping a record of that. That's where you need to be focused. Like, again, those thoughts are gonna come. Of course, you're gonna compare yourself to. Other things you see, other people you see and what other people are doing, and that's okay. It's like a normal thing for your brain to do, but you know it becomes a problem when it starts keeping you from moving towards your own goal.

Nik: 29:27

Yeah, yeah, totally. And you know, you, it's funny, it's like it's so interesting because there is a natural part of our brain, I call it the ego. I don't know what we technically call it. Maybe in the world of, you know, psychology. I call it just the ego. Your ego is always judging and analyzing and it's looking out for danger. It's trying to protect itself. And you know, there's just this part of our brain that's wired to be, yeah. Looking at others and judging them and judging ourselves. Uh, and so. It's just, yeah. One, I think just to kind of normalize it and, and, and I think also it's like catching yourself in that moment when you do and you, you know, you fall into the comparison. There's like a moment where you can choose which direction you want to go. Right. It's like even when I see Dr. Sonny, there's another artist mindset coach out there, like my lower sort of ego self could be like, oh my God, there's like competition out there now. Right. And, and see it that way as opposed to seeing it like. Whoa, how cool that there's somebody else out there for me to connect with. You know, that now we can become friends, we can collaborate. Like this is, this can be a great thing. Right. So when you're looking at often, I mean, you're, you're comparing yourself to your peers, right? And so do you see your peers as competition or do you see your peers as people that you can collaborate and build with? You know, we're creating a podcast now. We're creating content together. We're inspiring people now with our words. But that was a decision that, you know, there's a fork in the road of, oh, is this person going to be, competition? Is this person gonna be a collaborator? So there's just like a little, there's like a moment there where you can catch yourself. And for me, what I,'cause this is so, so, so common, but for me, what I have my clients do is I have them celebrate. Everybody, like I have them celebrate, especially the people maybe they don't wanna celebrate of like, oh, that person got a bigger billing than you. Or that person got that gig that you wanted. When you fall into what I would just call like the low vibrational frequency of like jealousy and resentment, well now you're the one operating from jealousy and resentment, and you are not gonna create any kind of good results from that energy, right? So it's like paying attention to your energy. First off, your, your, your mindset comes first of what are you choosing to believe? Which fork in the road are you choosing to, you know, to look at and to go down. And then that's going to, um, that's going to influence the kind of energy that you feel you we're really good at making ourselves feel like shit. And a lot of that's'cause of just the perspective and the mindset that we have around things. So when you see somebody that, uh, maybe yeah, you notice yourself, your ego flare up, you notice yourself, compare yourself to like. Cool. Celebrate that person, choose to celebrate that person. It literally can be a choice. And it's easier said than done, maybe, but there's that automatic reaction that you have to start to override of like, hell yeah, cool. That person is winning. That means that I can win too. That means that I believe in abundance. That means that's opportunity out there. And then how do you actually feel energetically, when I'm celebrating somebody, I feel good. I'm living in the energy of celebration. Now I'm operating from that energy and I'm creating way different results for myself. So I've seen some, like miraculous shit happen with my clients where I've put them on this like, celebration, uh, protocol. You know, it really can change the game.

Dr. Sunni: 32:50

Celebration is important. Like you said, if you're looking at people as competition, it's hurting you. Like before you've even done anything or not done anything. Like that's really harmful. It's not helping you grow, right? Like, but if you are celebrating people, and I always encourage artists to celebrate other artists, support other artists too. Um, I'm always out there supporting artists at every level. You can find me at shows everywhere all the time because that's something that's really important to me, right? Like, I wanna discover new music and new artists and see what people are doing. But it's also so important to be out there cheering people on. And you know what? There are things to learn from people that are doing cool things. There's so much that can be learned. And having that mindset can help you grow. You know? And like you said, it leads to so many unexpected things. Like positive, all positive things, right? Like when you move away from that competition mindset, because I think that also gets in the way of artists networking and building relationships, and even doing collabs. Right. Like that mindset will just keep you in a box and also keep you lonely.

Nik: 34:00

Yeah.

Dr. Sunni: 34:01

Um, so like really being able to, celebrate others and be there to support them and say, Hey, I love what this person's doing, what can I learn from them? Like that open mindset, is the path that's going to lead you in the direction you wanna be going.

Nik: 34:18

Yeah, totally. I saw you make a post about writing down your wins, which I thought was really cool.'cause I was like, okay, this, for me, again, I always tell my clients like, celebration is a pillar of my process. I'm just like, we're celebrating each other. I'm having them celebrate themselves. I'm having them celebrate other people. Uh, it's like, whatever you focus on is going to grow. Right. So I loved seeing that you had, uh, you were suggesting people basically to write down their wins every day. Tell me a little bit about that, that exercise and, and how that plays a role in your process.

Dr. Sunni: 34:49

Sure. So I think that is such a game changer. So it comes from positive psychology. The research for Martin Seligman where he really developed this exercise and researched it. And what he did was for two weeks he had people do, was record, write down three things that went well every day. Didn't matter what they were, how big, how small. He would say, force yourself to think about your day at the end of every day and write down three things that went well because again, our minds, like you were saying, are wired for the threat. They're wired for the negative. But doing this exercise for just two weeks every day changed people's mindset. It changed their brain. Whereas then now they were going through the day looking for the positive. Noticing the positive things when they happened and then having an easier time of writing them down. And not only that, at the end of this two weeks, looking back, you had a list of all of these positive things. Because normally something happens, you know, something positive happens. Um, we have a great laugh with a friend. Um, you know, we did something, a fun activity, whatever it is, and then it's gone.

Nik: 36:06

Yeah.

Dr. Sunni: 36:07

like having this in writing, like it makes it concrete and it sort of retrains and starts to rewire your brain for the positive. So it's really a game changer.

Nik: 36:18

Yeah. I love that. I really love that you bring up this part around rewiring your brain, right? This is a big thing that I. Frame with my clients as well. In the same way that you would want to go to the gym and train your body. Like, the only way I can be strong is I gotta go and I gotta like lift weights and I gotta put in reps. I gotta, I gotta exercise. I need to condition my body to be strong and to be healthy. And your brain is the same way. It's like my body is naturally going to deteriorate. My body is like not naturally strong. Right? If we're not using it, if we're not training it, I'm like naturally just going to get really fat and outta shape. Right. That's where, that's where like the gravitational pull of life is going to take me. So in the same way that we're gonna train our body in the gym, we gotta be training our mind in, in the gym as well. Right? And so I have, you know, exercises that I put my clients on where it's like, look, we. We gotta rewire the way that we think because we're very naturally conditioned to be wired for fear, to be wired, for comparison, to be wired for worst case scenarios. Right. And, I love what you bring up is like with even just in two weeks doing some of these kind of basic exercises, like, yeah, let's start to focus intentionally and again, it's like I'm not naturally gonna go there. I have to take control and intentionally start to rewire the brain to start to focus on the wind, to start to focus on what I'm proud of, to start to focus on what's possible and doing that every day by writing it down and training yourself. What is cool is that like, wait a minute. I'm kind of going there, that becomes more of my default state, whereas maybe my default state before was to always get upset or to be, falling into the fear, falling into a victim mindset. It's all reprogrammable, but you gotta put in the work, you gotta put in the reps, right? Well, I'm not gonna get it without showing up and going to the gym. So going to that, to the gym of the mind and, and really exercising it. But it's really cool to see. It's like, I, naturally go to gratitude. Like my default state is that everything's gonna work out and I'm super blessed, you know, I fall out of that sometimes, but it's not a hard place for me to get back to.'cause I'm like, I trained that shit. Like I've trained my mind over years and, and not just my mind, but like my emotional state, my nervous system as well. Uh, so yeah, I really love the just the, the rewiring aspect of it. What are some other exercises that you have your clients do? I'd be very curious.

Dr. Sunni: 38:52

Um, well, you know, I think it really varies. I go into like a variety of exercises in my book, to like, help you again with this mindfulness piece, right? Because I think for mindfulness, you know, we don't have to call it that because I think that word even starts to get a negative connotation for people. People are like, oh, mindfulness, I don't wanna do that. Um, or I can't do that, right? Because a lot of people try it and it doesn't work. But I think really again, like being more aware of. What you're doing, right? Like the mindfulness aspects of what you're doing. I don't think everybody should meditate, right? It's not for everyone. You know, some people really love it. They get into it. Some people just can't do it and they never will do it and that's fine. But you know what, you can still do activities that are mindful. Like you can mindfully brush your teeth, right? Like you can, you brush your teeth every day, twice a day. And you can pay attention to all of the senses when you're doing it.'cause a lot of times you're brushing your teeth and your mind's out here, right? Like thinking of what you have to do during the day. Or maybe that post, you don't want to do that video editing, you're avoiding whatever it is. Like our mind's in a million places'cause we're doing a routine activity. But if you're actually focusing in on. What does the toothpaste look like? How does it smell? What does it taste like? How does a toothbrush feel on your teeth? Like, you're, you're engaging all of the senses so your mind's not two hours down the road or in last week, right? Like, it brings you to here and now. And exercises like that are super important. Um, also learning new things, right? I think it's really important for artists to have things outside of music, even if they're not necessarily passions to try new things, right? Like when we're learning something new. Like it or not, you're mindful, right? Like you have to be fully engaged in learning that new thing because you've never done it before. So like, I think things like that, again, helping bring our brain to the here and now, right? Because so many times we're ahead or we're in the past, or we're somewhere that's not here. So I think that's a big piece and these types of exercises can really help.

Nik: 41:10

Yeah. So I hear that mindfulness is really a big piece, as you said, it's, it's obviously very important. Why is mindfulness so important for artists specifically?

Dr. Sunni: 41:21

Well, I think it helps with a lot of things, right? It helps with performance, it helps with creativity for sure. But it also, like mindfulness helps you with awareness, right? And I know we like, are on the same page about the importance of self-awareness. I need to be aware of me, how my thoughts and feelings or impacting my behavior, right? Because if I'm not aware, I could be, again, if, let's just say I have anxiety before a show. If I'm not aware of what my purpose is, what are my goals here, right? Like I can do something that's gonna get in my way to try to manage that. I think it's really important to be more in the here and now, right? Like that's super important during performance.

Nik: 42:05

Yeah. It makes me think about what we were talking about earlier with just the feeling, the need to constantly be just grinding and moving. Uh, I think a lot of people feel like you're just on a hamster wheel, right? All right, I'm gonna just like grind and go, go, go, go, go. And it's kinda like, yeah, we're all just on this hamster wheel, but mindfulness gets you off of it. It's like, okay, no, I'm, my feet are firmly planted on the ground, and I'm solid and I know why I am here. I know who I am, I know what my purpose is. And, and I can do everything a bit more intentionally from that grounded, mindful place than when I'm just like, okay, we're just going and we're just making music, and we're making content, and we gotta make this thing happen. You know? Because I'm about to turn 30 and Oh my God, I'm getting old. I need to do, it's like that, that's the, that's the mind right there. Like, it's, it's almost like one of those, uh, one of those like, auctioneers, you know, and we're going like, that's our, that's our brain, right? And so, okay, let's get off the hamster wheel. Be mindful, start practicing, but like training the mind to be mindful. Right. And I think, yeah, when

Dr. Sunni: 43:08

Right. And like getting those breaks, that gives you a break, right? If you're constantly on the hamster wheel of 10,000 thoughts per minute, um, you know, it's exhausting. And again, you know, you're at risk for burnout. So like the whole idea is that mindfulness gives you a break from all that. And we, we need it

Nik: 43:27

yeah, yeah. Because I, you know, whether you're an artist or a coach, an entrepreneur, part of that is that there's always going to be a million things to do. There's no end, you know, to what can be done. There's always going to be more. And so you can run as fast as you want on the hamster wheel, but it's like you're not gonna get it. There's no destination. Right. You can be flying, but there's, yeah, there's nowhere to, to reach. So we have to be really like, aware of that. Right.

Dr. Sunni: 43:59

I agree with what you're saying. Like I think if you're not mindful and not in the here and now, you're just in that go, go, go. That's where people like lose themselves, right? That's where the burnout happens, right? Like, you're not here, you're not enjoying anything, right? You're just going and you're just doing, and you feel like it's never done. And you know, I think so that's why it is, it's like important for you all around, right? Like professionally, personally, to be able to stop and slow down. I mean, think about, you know, how many artists don't, don't even take breaks.

Nik: 44:33

yeah. Yeah. Well, I like what you said about not even enjoying any of it. Right. And that's because we have put our enjoyment off into some distant place in the future of like, I'll enjoy this once I get that show, or I'll start to enjoy this once I am doing it full time. I'll start to enjoy it once I'm at some future place. And. I can't tell you how many artists I've met that have all of the goals that you might want, that someone else might want, and they're still not enjoying it'cause they haven't gotten off the hamster wheel To like actually be present and recognize that there is no destination. Right? The journey is the destination. This is it. If you don't learn how to enjoy the journey now, you're probably not gonna learn, you're probably not gonna be enjoying it later. There's a lot of really big, miserable artists, right, that still are chasing the next thing. And so, but, but, and, and not just artists. All of us, you know, we see it all the time. There's so many people, it's like, cool, you have all the things right, but, but you're still, you're not happy and you're not enjoying any of it. It's like enjoying the journey is a, it's like a skill that we have to learn and, and I honestly think it's getting harder and harder to do, especially when we are. Living in the world of social media, it's like part of our business is to be on the phone a lot and to be, you know, using, you know, developing the fan base, developing the audience, making the content. And so we are predisposed to be on the phone a lot more, which really further perpetuates that, okay, there's this, yeah, there's this next step that I need to get to. As, you know, the, the lack of mindfulness of like, wait a minute, like, life is happening here right now. It's not happening on the phone, it's not happening. It's in some future place or some future achievement. Right? So I think it's a, yeah, I'm, I'm, thank you for sharing that.'cause I'm really seeing, I'm like, oh yeah, mindfulness is like, so, so important.

Dr. Sunni: 46:29

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree. Social media makes it harder than ever. I mean, you're not mindful if you're doing a post, if you're scrolling, if you're engaging, whatever you're doing, you're like glued to that phone or even, you know how artists are like checking their streams or checking where they are on the charts. You're, you're constantly away from where you are now and enjoying the now and like, you know, again, celebrating those wins, celebrating your progress, and enjoying enjoying what you're doing. And again, that ties into the purpose. You've gotta still be connected to the why of why you started doing this in the first place.'cause if you lose that, then what are you really doing?

Nik: 47:07

Yeah. Let's go a little bit deeper if you're open to it. Uh,'cause I think if we really peel back the layers for not all artists, but for some artists, and again, not just artists as well. I mean, I work with just a lot of men. I do a lot of like men's coaching and in men's groups as well. And it's like for a lot of us, we are trying to. Get to this certain level of achievement so that we can prove ourselves in some way. That like, well, once I become a successful artist, that will mean I'm enough. That will mean I am worthy. That will mean I'm special if I can get to this certain place. And on a deep level, it's like that will mean I, I can be loved. Right? Loved and adored, uh, respected. Right? Like what's the, like the actual deeper thing that a lot of people are chasing, usually unconsciously. But we think that, okay, if I can achieve this goal of being, you know, this headlining world touring artist. Right. Um, a lot of times if we actually really peel back the layers, it's like there's some sort of like validation I think, that people are chasing, which it's like, that's kind of like a hole in ourselves that we have to work on filling, you know?'cause again, we've seen countless celebrities that are, you know, multimillionaire celebrities and famous and then they kill themselves, right? It's like there's still a hole there, there's still a void there that the success and the achievement will never accomplish. So I think to, like, I. Really get clear and really just seek that out, you know? And I have to also, like, what part of myself still feels that once I make more money or I buy a house or I can, you know, provide for my family in a certain way or have a certain lifestyle, like, then I'll be enough as a man. Right. That's even just very deeply rooted in, in, in men as well. We're very socially programmed to base our worth off of how much, how successful we can be or how much we can provide, you know? So just to go like one layer deeper, I think it's a great space to look at within all of us of like, where are we? Where do we feel that like our success and accomplishments will fill some sort of void inside of us.

Dr. Sunni: 49:23

Right. Right. And I think with a lot of those thoughts, like you said, like if I achieve this, I think, like you said, we have to go deeper than that. Like if I achieve this than that, um, you really have to go deeper than that. Like why, what is that getting at for you? Like you said, sometimes it's like in the end, even though a person may not realize it, it is that they wanna be loved or be accepted, and then from there, okay, well let's take a look at that and how does that tie in with your value? Right, because that's probably deeply rooted in a value, right? The value is not to make a million dollars, like what is behind that? Why? And a lot of times, like you said, it may be like feeling loved or accepted and then looking at, okay, so where are you getting that? This doesn't necessarily have to come from this goal. Where do you have that Now, like you said, in terms of the gratitude, where do you have that now? How can you focus more in on that? More? I think a lot of times artists want to connect, right? Like they're really looking for that connection to be seen and okay, if that is what it's about for you, how are you connecting? Like how are you engaging with your audience? How are you connecting with other artists doing the same thing? How are you working together with them? Like how are you filling that in other ways? A lot of times, I think that's a big piece too.

Nik: 50:44

Yeah. And a lot of it is like, how are we looking to fill those needs outside of ourself, right? Like, I want to, I, I, I, there's this need for connection, this need for being seen, or maybe there's this need for love, right? Well, okay, how much are you loving yourself? How much am I connecting with myself? Am I taking time to really be with myself, to connect with myself? Am I taking time to see myself, right? Because I can also give myself those things, right? If I'm, you know, hoping to be worthy or validated, right? It's like, okay, can I validate myself? Can I find that worthiness within myself? Um, you know, I think that that's a, that's a lot of like the real deep, like personal self-worth of knowing that, like, or just self-work, you know, of just knowing that like, all right, whatever. I'm. You know, I'm oftentimes chasing things outside of myself to, you know, fill some void. Right. Or to get something. And a lot of times it's like, oh, I can, I mean, a lot of it, like, we do need to be loved by other people. We do need to connect with other people. We can't, you know, unless you wanna be a monk and sit in a, ASAM all day or whatever, and just, you know, be, become enlightened or something. But there's, you know, we can also still be loved by so many people, but not actually love ourselves. We can be seen by so many people, but not actually be seen by ourselves or be connected with ourself, which is another piece of it to really be aware of and work on.

Dr. Sunni: 52:01

Completely. And I think that really ties in with a values exercise that I do, because I think a lot of times people are not necessarily connected to their values on a daily basis in looking at how they line up with the things that you're doing. And people will say to me all the time, like, you know, well, I don't know off the top of my head what my values are. Like, you know, do you have a list? Right? And yeah, there are lists of values that you can Google, but like, the better way to say like, what are your values is who and what is important to you, right? And so many times when clients are giving me that list, when I have artists giving me that list, or other, you know, CEOs giving me that list, they will list off what is important, right? They have a whole list of things that who is important, right? You know, maybe their family, their friends, their partner, their children, or whatever. And so many times. People forget to include in this list themselves.

Nik: 52:55

Mm. Wow. Yeah. That's big. That's so big. Wow. Mm. Let that land for a minute. Everybody put yourself on the list,

Dr. Sunni: 53:08

Exactly. Self-awareness, self-care, like what are you doing for yourself on a daily basis? Checking in with yourself, seeing how you're feeling. Right. You,

Nik: 53:18

Yeah,

Dr. Sunni: 53:19

of times we don't have time to do that.

Nik: 53:21

yeah, yeah. And that's where. You know, we're oftentimes, I, I always say like, you know, we're trying to fill up our cup, right? Uh, or, or maybe we're coming from an empty cup. I'm hoping that if I get the success or the achievement or the love from somebody else or whatever, then my cup will be full and. You're coming from an empty cup as opposed to, okay, let me fill my own cup up first. Let me do the self-care. Let me, let me make sure that like, I'm good first, let me put myself on the list first. Let me prioritize myself and whatever I need to do. If I, you know, if I can come from a full cup, I'm overflowing. You know, especially when it comes to like relationships, I'm like, I'm not coming to a relationship'cause I need to take something from you. I'm coming to a relationship.'cause I wanna, I, I have something to give. I have something to offer. Right. And the same way, I think as a, yeah, even approaching your entire artist career is like, oh, you're, you're here to give, you're here to offer something. Not to, not to take. That will be a byproduct of whatever you show up and you give. Um, but just to be in that and you can only give really, like when you fill your own tank up first, you know, fill your own cup up first. Yeah. So you've mentioned this book. Tell me about the book, level Up, your Influence.

Dr. Sunni: 54:37

Yes. Yes. That's what it's called. So, the book is really interesting how it came about because I don't think I ever considered myself as someone who would write a book. Um, in order to get my doctorate, I did have to write a dissertation, and that was like more than enough writing for me because I don't consider myself to be a writer. Um, however, like over the years, I found that, you know, people were inspired by my story, sort of by my leadership lessons that I've learned along the way with starting, also with starting two different businesses and the challenges that came with that. And as I was really building my consulting practice and networking with tons of people, there were several different leaders that inspired me along the way. Um, and I wanted to share with more people, right, than just the people that I network with. Um, these stories, whether it's my own story, stories of people that have inspired me along with the framework that I use for working with people and helping people stay aligned with their values and purpose and, um, you know, developing goals based on those. And then also figuring out how to become more aware and mindful of the thoughts and feelings that get in the way and really changing their relationship with them. So that's really what the book is about. And um, you know, so it's my story and then it's leaders in all of these different industries. One who's a dj, and I, I do have to shout him out here because I'm so excited. Um, number 20 on Billboard dance today. GTO Feis. So he is featured in the book. Um, and, you know, these leaders are really sharing their stories of things that they've struggled with and as well as things that have helped them overcome the challenges or, get through these hard pieces. Um, so, the book was really like a labor of love. Again, I'm not a writer. Um, and currently now I'm like in the process of a book tour. So that's been fun. Um, doing lots of, doing several cities and about to go international and, I wanted to do something different that, you know, a lot of people do book signings, uh, you know, where you sit there, you sign the book, and then you maybe read from the book or talk about the book. But I don't know, for me, that's boring. Um, so I've done a few of those, but what's been important for me in the different cities that I'm going to is I'm making these more of parties, right? I'm bringing in different DJs from the cities where I'm having the events, um, helping them, helping them get, you know, promoting them and supporting them. And then also having it be networking, right? Because I think we all need more networking in this industry. So these events are combinations of, you know, DJs playing industry, networking. And then, yeah, I'll sign a book if you want. Happy to talk with you about the book. I, but I'm making them more fun events and, um, I'm actually planning a different one for the next one, which is even a little bit more exciting. It's gonna be a popup rave in Myorca book party. So these like level up parties are going around. I was in DC two weeks ago. Um, so this has been like an exciting journey.

Nik: 57:44

That is so, so awesome. I love the fun twist that you are bringing to the, uh, the book world. It's, it's super cool and just congratulations, congratulations on writing a book. You're the second guest I've had recently that's written a book and both have, uh, very much inspired me to follow in your footsteps. So there's some, uh, early ideas for the headline or mindset book starting to be downloaded from the universe. So, uh, when that time comes, I'm gonna hit you up for some, for some tips. Uh, but congratulations on, on yeah. Diving in and, and really doing that. I know that's a, that's a, it's like an artist putting out an album, you know, it's a lot of work to do and so congratulations on that. And yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to hop on today. Like what a really cool rabbit hole to go down. And I know we could have. Gone on for a few more hours. There's so many layers to everything that we talked about today, but, yeah, for everybody listening, I hope that you guys enjoyed this conversation. Make sure to follow Dr. Sonny. Make sure to follow the podcast. If you guys aren't subscribed, uh, please make sure that you've subscribed as well as go and give it a rating that really helps to, expose it to more people. So, uh, thank you all for the support. And Sunny, thank you so much for joining us on the Headline Mindset podcast.

Dr. Sunni: 58:57

Thanks for having me, Nick. It's been a great conversation and you're right, we could keep going

Nik: 59:02

Yeah, we'll do round two at some point for sure.

Dr. Sunni: 59:05

Sounds good.