Headliner Mindset

RIOT - Making The Jump From Support Act To Headliner

• Nik Cherwink

Share episode

Apply for coaching here: https://www.nikcherwink.com/apply

RIOT just dropped their new album The Machine on Slander and NGHTMRE’s label, Gud Vibrations, and are hitting the road for their first-ever national headlining tour.

In this episode, we talk about what it takes to build a sustainable career in bass music—while staying true to your vision and leveling up every step of the way.

We dive into:

  • The grind of moving from support slots to headlining shows
  • How they balanced singles, a full album, and tour prep all at once
  • The investment behind their visuals, branding, and comic book universe
  • The realities of touring life, burnout, and building healthy routines
  • Why up-and-coming artists need to slow down, stop chasing trends, and focus on quality music

If you’re serious about building a real career as an artist, this one’s packed with lessons on patience, strategy, and doing things the right way.

Follow RIOT here:
https://www.instagram.com/riotmusic
https://www.tiktok.com/@itsriotmusic

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

RIOT:

one of the most important advice. That we can give as well especially for like, you know, beginner artists and up and comer artists who haven't launched yet. Take your fucking time. Yeah

Nik Cherwink:

what's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset podcast. This week's guest is one of the hottest rising acts in bass music. They just released a full length album on slander and nightmares, good vibration record label, and are about to embark on their first ever national headlining tour playing shows all over the country. In this episode, we dive into the pros and cons of being in a duo. Their creative process behind creating a full length album while also staying consistent with releasing singles. The pressure that comes with jumping from being a support DJ to a headliner, and much, much more. This is riot. Tom

RIOT:

Daniel.

Nik Cherwink:

Riot.

RIOT:

Hello. Hello.

Nik Cherwink:

the show,

RIOT:

Hi there. Thank you for having us.

Nik Cherwink:

Yo, so stoked to see you again. I had the pleasure of getting to hang out with both of you at Lost Lands last year.

RIOT:

That was awesome.

Nik Cherwink:

shout out sippy. She invited me to, to come out as a, as her coach and get to go behind the scenes and backstage and meet all these incredible people and artists. And, um, yeah, you were two of the guys that I got to. Hang out with and bro out with a little bit out there.

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

I, I can vouch that we are talking to two of the coolest fucking dudes in the music industry right here.'cause I

RIOT:

Thank you, man. Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

So. Yeah, I had a blast with you guys out there.

RIOT:

Yeah. Awesome. No, it was a really good time. We did too. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

uh, I heard you

RIOT:

I heard you just

Nik Cherwink:

also

RIOT:

also played,

Nik Cherwink:

We were just

RIOT:

we were just talking about a second ago. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

That's the one I've always wanted to go to.

RIOT:

Crazy. Yeah. Very different than, uh, other festivals. We got to play in the, in the US right? Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, even the ride through, like, just getting there was kind of wild. Oh, that was, that was such a hustle. But it was worth every minute. Let me tell you, man, we flew from. From LA to Seattle, Leonard. Seattle. Two hours layover. Flew to Spokane, spent the night there, had a pickup from the festival. Drove three and a half hours to like into Canada, through the border, and then to our hotel. And then from there, it was another hour to get to the festival.

Nik Cherwink:

Damn.

RIOT:

was like quite a, quite a trip. But, um, first of all, all, all those drive were were amazing. Yeah. It's like the scenery beautiful up there. Like the, like how green it was. It's the wild. It's like literally in the wild. I was hoping to catch like a moose or something. He asked the driver. Yeah. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Dude,

RIOT:

But it didn't happen.

Nik Cherwink:

how, how, you know, blessed are you guys to be able to like, see the world, you know,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

your music, through your passion, through your art, through your creativity. I think that that is like so many people's dreams,

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

to tour, to play these shows, but also just to like see all these different parts of the world that must be so awesome.

RIOT:

It is, it is. Sometimes it's like easy also to get like caught up in the hustle and the work and the studio and the shows, but moments like just driving through Canada and like watching the nature and like it clicks for a sudden and you're like, wow, I can't believe this is my job. Yeah. And also like, you know, it's, it's a bit tricky because like all this like travel on one end like that, that's the goal, you know, that's what we always wanted to do. We wanted to do what we love, which is music. Yeah. And we wanted to be, um, like, you know, fortunate enough to be able to share it with the rest of the world and then see all those places. But reason why it's tricky is because. Travel is probably like the most exhausting parts of being a touring artist. Like, you know, all those like airports and drives and lack asleep in different time zones, which are, I think it's like stuff that most of the people don't really see. Yeah. Um, and they're like, oh my God, that's amazing. Get to travel the world. And you just see the, the photos highlights the set highlights, you know? Um, but it, it's definitely like travel is definitely like a, a big, a big part of like how exhausting it can also be and how important it is to keep your mind in the right states and you know, also work internally to be balanced. Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

So how

RIOT:

So how do you do that? I personally, like I, when I knew that this album is coming and this tour is coming, me personally, like I decided to, like, you know, focus on my diet, focus on exercising, uh, meditation, I do recovery, uh, also a couple times a month, like ice bats. Also seeing a therapist, because why not? You can always keep working on yourself and get better.

Nik Cherwink:

a

RIOT:

Um, so this is like, you know, stuff that, that, that I've been doing, creating some sort of routine. So when those really extreme lifestyle comes in, you're very much like, you know, you are grounded and, and like, you know, it doesn't overwhelm you and it doesn't overtake you in that sense. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. I

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

about that. You know, and it's something

RIOT:

Something that comes up all the time on this podcast where it's like, you guys are

Nik Cherwink:

kind of like

RIOT:

kind of like professional athletes. You know? Like it's a

Nik Cherwink:

Big toll on your body and on your mind and you know, that was something I used to always. know, tell Sippy when I was working with her, it was like, you're, you're like

RIOT:

like

Nik Cherwink:

car, right? You are

RIOT:

Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

like,

RIOT:

like

Nik Cherwink:

track of touring and

RIOT:

your favorite team?

Nik Cherwink:

shows. My favorite

RIOT:

Favorite one team. Yeah. I

Nik Cherwink:

I haven't

RIOT:

haven't been,

Nik Cherwink:

this last season, but I, I would

RIOT:

I would say

Nik Cherwink:

a, I'm a Red Bull fan. I just

RIOT:

I just love Red Bull in general because

Nik Cherwink:

caffeine

RIOT:

caffeine addict.

Nik Cherwink:

love their, their whole brand of what

RIOT:

of what? They do

Nik Cherwink:

all the

RIOT:

all

Nik Cherwink:

sports and, you know,

RIOT:

Oh yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

just

RIOT:

I'm just a big Red Bull fan in general.

Nik Cherwink:

so I

RIOT:

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

for

RIOT:

That's valid. That's valid. Yeah. Um,

Nik Cherwink:

but you know,

RIOT:

you know, it's just, it's cool to hear you guys talking about that.

Nik Cherwink:

of, uh, yeah, just having those healthy practices in place because like you said, I think it's something a lot of people don't realize is, you know, once you get there and you realize like, oh shit, this is harder than I thought.

RIOT:

Yeah, it's really easy to, to a, get caught up in it. And it's also very easy to get burned out without even noticing that you're burnt out. Mm-hmm. Like, by the time that you notice it, like it's, it's, it's almost too late. And you need to like, you know, reroute yourself. So instead of that also, especially after like, you know, we started riding in 2012. Yeah. We have a little bit of like, you know, experience of, uh, of touring under our belts. So like, that's why I was like, this time around I was like, let's do preemptive actions. Because I already know what's coming. Yeah. So I'm gonna prepare myself to the best of my personal ability to make sure that my mind is in the right place. That like, you know, I'm not getting to be burnt out because it's like, you know, it, it, it did happen in the past and it happens to artists all the time, whether they talk about it or not.

Nik Cherwink:

Totally. Yeah,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

that's why I'm

RIOT:

That's why I'm glad that we're.

Nik Cherwink:

about it. Something I talk to my clients a lot as well, as far as the clients that I work with, that are not yet touring. I'm always

RIOT:

I'm always encouraging them, like put those habits in place now. Even though you're, even though you're not touring, it's like start

Nik Cherwink:

know, exercising, getting that stuff dialed in,

RIOT:

having

Nik Cherwink:

foundation so that when your time comes and you get that call

RIOT:

call,

Nik Cherwink:

and you're going to go on tour, you're not starting from scratch. It's like

RIOT:

right? Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

are just like healthy lifestyle habits that everybody should be doing anyways, but it

RIOT:

absolutely.

Nik Cherwink:

it becomes like 10

RIOT:

10 times.

Nik Cherwink:

important when you start living that touring lifestyle.

RIOT:

Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, so

RIOT:

So

Nik Cherwink:

just

RIOT:

you just said that you guys started

Nik Cherwink:

in 2012. That's 13

RIOT:

years. Yeah. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

I'd

RIOT:

I'd love to hear

Nik Cherwink:

about your

RIOT:

about your story, you know,

Nik Cherwink:

how did

RIOT:

how did you guys meet? How did you guys.

Nik Cherwink:

duo? Give me a little bit of background on how you guys started this project in the first place.

RIOT:

Well, we both pursued music, in different capacities before we met, but we were, uh, connected, uh, by my cousin, which is Tom's like best friend from high school. Yeah. So he kind of made the link I was producing, Tom was already, uh, an very established DJ in Israel, so it kind of made sense'cause I wanted to play shows. He wanted to make original music. Yeah. So we kind of like the combo made a lot of sense. Also, we got along pretty well. Yeah. And that's like, you need that chemistry. Otherwise a duo I don't think would, would work. It's a full on marriage. Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

Yes. Yeah, I wanted to

RIOT:

yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

that, you know, as far as like

RIOT:

yeah. What are some of the.

Nik Cherwink:

the challenges

RIOT:

Challenges.

Nik Cherwink:

with being a duo?

RIOT:

Oh, it's like a marriage, like the, we, we, we've been through like, like you said, 13 years. So that's a lot of ups and downs and Yeah. You know, uh, bad times, good times.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

I'd say like today, the past two, three years, it's been the, the best. Really. Yeah. The, our relationship Also the project itself, I think like every relationship, even when you date someone, you know, so you start dating someone, you get to know them and there's like, you know, this honeymoon phase in the beginning and then like, uh, oh, shit, I didn't know this and I didn't know that. And like, and then how you communicate and overcome. Those hardships. Yeah. That's what make actually like, you know, like makes you stronger and more solid and like, you know, you overcome hardships together. Uh, which, you know, like, like every other up and comer artist, like we had dozen, dozens of them. There are benefits, like also to being two. Um, you can rely on each other and you go through shit together. So even like tough shit, like canceling a show or, you know, lose, losing a booking, whatever you can, it's not just you against the world in a sense. Yeah. You have a button, it's like you have you, you have each other's back, you know? Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

Uh, if, if, like, you know, so sometimes like, you know, we, we have, you know, those roles, like, I, so you are doing more of this and you're doing more of that, but hey, if you're lacking on the specific thing that you are doing, so I'm gonna step in and I'm gonna cover for you, I'm gonna like, you know mm-hmm. Fix that situation, uh, to the benefit of the both of us. Yeah. So it's essentially like. Two individuals coming together as one. Which yes. Have a lot of PRAs and a lot of cons in it as well. You know, you need to, you also, also, the money splits it half. Yeah. So that sucks. Um, yeah. Um, so that's a sucky part, but yeah, you need to be to, to know how to let go.'cause sometimes the reason we're both doing this together is because Tom's good at things that I'm not and vice versa. And vice versa. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

So, yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

Yeah. What are the

Nik Cherwink:

strengths and the roles, and how do you guys kind of divide things up? What does that look like between the two of you?

RIOT:

I think I can say for sure that like the business side and the social media, all of that. And Tom is, that's his like thing. He's very good at that. Yeah. And uh, as much as I, I could give my input and what I think, I know that he's very good at, uh, you know, yeah. Doing that, end of the business. Yeah, I'm also coming like my, my background, so in my bar mitzvah actually in Israel, so that's when like, you know, I took the money and I bought myself my first like DJ equipment, taught myself how to be a DJ and essentially like, you know, opened my first business when I was 13. So I'm very much coming from like, you know, the performer. side of things, like performer and businessmen side of things. And then, um, coming like, you know, when I was like back in, uh, 2011, I was like already one of like the biggest and most established digit in Israel. And I was like, okay, I want to take you to the next level. So I learned Ableton and I was talking to my best friend, uh, shout out Jordan. I was talking to him. About that. And he was like, dude, you gotta meet my cousin. Like all he does is like literally sit in his like parents' basement and writing the sickest beats.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

then he sent me some stuff of his, and I was like, yo, we gotta meet. Because I have like so much to learn. Like, you know, producing music is a completely different world from like being like a, a business owner or a DJ performer, right. Since this day, like I, I have learned a lot and I'm still learning every single day, but that's definitely like Daniel's forte, like, you know, what, what he's doing and the way that he's doing that. And the fact that we both acknowledge the strengths, uh, and the weaknesses of one another and how it completes to the whole, Is definitely like the key for ideally and like, you know, wishfully the success that we're looking for.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm. That's cool. Yeah, it

RIOT:

Yeah, it reminds me of, uh,

Nik Cherwink:

uh, slander and when they both went to

RIOT:

Mm-hmm. Right?

Nik Cherwink:

school where I used

RIOT:

I used to work.

Nik Cherwink:

Derek was always, he was more of the producer. He was like producing just for a longer time.

RIOT:

Yeah. Scott was a little bit

Nik Cherwink:

the business guy. He was the people

RIOT:

person.

Nik Cherwink:

that, you

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

of.

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

more the promoter. And

RIOT:

And really how

Nik Cherwink:

up,

RIOT:

it,

Nik Cherwink:

were like, all

RIOT:

alright.

Nik Cherwink:

gonna

RIOT:

Gonna.

Nik Cherwink:

first, and then,

RIOT:

You

Nik Cherwink:

know, that's gonna

RIOT:

that's gonna help us get our music

Nik Cherwink:

level. And then as we

RIOT:

and as we start playing shows,

Nik Cherwink:

use that money to send Scott to Icon. So they basically had this deal where he would

RIOT:

I didn't know that. That's cool. I didn't know that. They didn't go at the same time. Yeah. That's cool. We, we know them pretty well. We, we didn't know that. Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

basically like

RIOT:

like reinvested. They're like, let's

Nik Cherwink:

money

RIOT:

the money We're gonna

Nik Cherwink:

um, and reinvest

RIOT:

t

Nik Cherwink:

to

RIOT:

That's really cool.

Nik Cherwink:

there so he could get his skills up. So,

RIOT:

Yeah. Also, by the way, we, we, we love them. Yeah. We obviously, like, we have two songs with them. They're being honestly one of the first like, you know, big acts that supported our music from the get go to really put them their money where their mouth is. Yeah. It's not just like, oh, play out your music. We're gonna hook you up with shows and, you know, stuff like that. And this album is also like coming out on their label as well. Slander, nightmares, label, good vibration. We're very excited for it.

Nik Cherwink:

Totally. So

RIOT:

So yeah, shout out Scott and Derek. We love you guys.

Nik Cherwink:

great

RIOT:

Great.

Nik Cherwink:

into the

RIOT:

an album.

Nik Cherwink:

is coming out on,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

label. So tell me

RIOT:

Right. Tell about the album. uh,

Nik Cherwink:

know the story and the

RIOT:

and the message?

Nik Cherwink:

'cause there's a really cool. theme and story that's tied into all of this. So tell

RIOT:

Tell me about Well, the, it, it all comes, uh, off of the first album, dogma Resistance, the one up here.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

RIOT:

Oh, this one, right? Yeah. Woo woo. Um, that came out in 2019. Yeah. And basically the way we went about that album was a bit different than this one. We first had like four, I believe, singles out already. I think so, yeah. That we then kind of made and compiled into an album that we added more tracks into and yeah, kind of tied the story together. So the concept came after a few songs were all, yes. I think it was like, uh, disorder, IWA Jam. Fury, the Mob, and Overkill. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Five songs. So they were already out and then we were like, there was like something in common between them, you know? Yeah. Like our music in general, I would say is like, like, like a journey. It's like very cinematic, like, it like, you know, like takes you on your own journey, however you would like to interpret that. Right? So the first album, dug Resistance came out. The concept after, like, you know, pretty much after the album was already out. Yeah, it was done and I think we added like three songs or something like that. And some like an intro? Yeah. Like interludes, like a bonus track and stuff like that. It did very well. We love that album and like people bring it up all the time, but this time around we, we wanted to do it the way you're pretty much supposed to is just to hunker down and write

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

RIOT:

stuff from the get go. Yeah. Which, which was a process.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah. So when you,

RIOT:

So when you

Nik Cherwink:

did

RIOT:

guys did the first album,

Nik Cherwink:

what

RIOT:

what made you decide to do an album rather than just

Nik Cherwink:

leaving those four songs as they

RIOT:

those as they were.

Nik Cherwink:

kind of inspired that idea in the first place?

RIOT:

I think for me it was always, I grew up listening to albums. something like, I like to hear from an artist, from a band or whatever. To me it was always, album is like the peak, form of creativity as a musician, in my opinion, where you could bring a theme, you tie songs together. It's not just singles or even an EP where it could be like a mishmash of a few songs. With an album, you really, you can. Get out a message out there, like with a coherent sound and stuff. And uh, I know it's not very popular in EDM, probably today, even less with attention span and all that,

Nik Cherwink:

Totally.

RIOT:

but we still decide to decided to do it anyway. All in, yeah, all in,

Nik Cherwink:

it's, it's

RIOT:

it's really more of an artistic decision. Yeah, for sure.

Nik Cherwink:

we're existing as DJs usually in a singles driven business, right? Put out a

RIOT:

Exactly right.

Nik Cherwink:

every month, every six weeks, focus

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

one thing. And so to, I'm always curious

RIOT:

Curious what inspires to

Nik Cherwink:

put out an album these

RIOT:

these.

Nik Cherwink:

Right? And so it, it seems like it was more of a, just like an artistic decision that you guys

RIOT:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's also, it's something that is very intimate and personal I feel like, as well, you know? Mm-hmm. It's like more so in, in, in most like situations, if at least for us, it's like, it's, it's also a lot for ourselves and not necessarily like for fans.'cause as an artist, you know, you can play all those shows and do all this like, you know, viral TikTok trends and stuff like that, but like, which will go well and you will play shows. But I feel like that we almost forgot like the core. Of art, where it's coming from, what is the meaning of it? And we wanted to, present a piece of art that we feel. A thousand percent confident and fulfilled, and I can tell you do this. This album that we're working on right now is also the absolute opposite from dog. More resistance in a sense. Like we're working on years on this album right now. Mm-hmm. 2019 was Dog More Resistance. And there are songs on this album that is coming out that, that are from back in 2020. Yeah, so like it's during COVID some of these were written. Yeah. It's, it's been, it's been like very much a journey, like, and we decided like to pretty much go all in, like all of our life savings are into this album. Yeah. I think we knew even back then with dogma that. After the success of it, we were, like, we always talked about, oh, one day we're gonna continue the story. Right. And like, pick it up and do another album. So we just started stacking up songs like, during COVID and later. But yeah, the, the bulk of the work was the last two years. Two years. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah.

RIOT:

The two years It was like, you know, like from having like, you know, drafts and like whips and stuff like that to actually like, okay, let's sit down. Let's crack the code here. Yeah. Like the concept, like what we wanna do, where we wanna go, what do we need. And during all of that hard work on the album, we also had to make sure we have enough music to release, to release that time, that single every six weeks. Like you just said, Nick as well. So that was also like, uh, yeah. Last year for us, we had like a release pretty much every six weeks. How?

Nik Cherwink:

how do you decide what's going on the album versus what you're putting out as singles?

RIOT:

So the album, um, I think at least half of the songs are like vocal driven like song songs. Mm-hmm. And. So the, the goal with that was very, uh, you know, thought out. We were like, we want these songs to also speak through the music, but also to have lyrics to go with, which is something we didn't do with the first album. Right. And the others, like more bangers that we wrote during that year, we were like, okay, this could work well as a release or a remix or, yeah. Or how we can tie it into the album with narration. Stuff like that. But I would say that this creative process in general with this album, since we were like, you know, first of all, like we grew both personally and artistically,, and also the approach coming into this album was like, you know, was very, very cohesive. You know, so it was

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

like, I, I wouldn't say easy. Nothing was easy about this album, but it was like easier and very much more flowing. The process of like, oh, what goes on this album and what doesn't go on this album? Yeah. We weren't chasing our tails. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like very clear, like the vision was very sharp, very clear.

Nik Cherwink:

I love this because it's getting me to see.

RIOT:

It's

Nik Cherwink:

it's not one or the other. Sometimes I, I think about, and I talk

RIOT:

talk.

Nik Cherwink:

of the difference between being a DJ slash producer versus being an artist, and those are kind

RIOT:

Yeah, those are kind of two different things

Nik Cherwink:

there

RIOT:

completely,

Nik Cherwink:

you know,

RIOT:

you know, no pun intended, but there is this machine.

Nik Cherwink:

you kind of have to feed of like, all right, we gotta

RIOT:

Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

music out, we gotta stay relevant. There's kind of this. Pressure to always

RIOT:

Always be putting something to be

Nik Cherwink:

out every

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

be putting

RIOT:

Be putting tracks out. And it's almost like if you don't like that's kind of the

Nik Cherwink:

right?

RIOT:

Right, yeah. Then you're not relevant. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

And

RIOT:

And

Nik Cherwink:

not the

RIOT:

not the same as being an artist, which is where you

Nik Cherwink:

actually. You know,

RIOT:

you know,

Nik Cherwink:

expressing that deeper level of creativity. It's kind of like you're paying attention, not

RIOT:

not necessarily

Nik Cherwink:

in the scene, but you're paying attention to yourself and your own inspiration and, and your

RIOT:

Right.

Nik Cherwink:

self-expression. I feel like I've oftentimes separated those as being, you know, like while they are two different things. What's cool to hear is that you guys were able to actually do both at the same time. We are going to put tracks out and we're gonna, we're gonna play the game. We're gonna

RIOT:

Yeah, I will tell you that was nearly, nearly impossible. Yeah. Nearly impossible. Hard to do. Like I don't want people to think that it's easy.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Maybe do, do you think having two of you made that, made that possible and

RIOT:

It

Nik Cherwink:

that

RIOT:

definitely helped. It helps. Definitely helped, yeah. It helps

Nik Cherwink:

sure.

RIOT:

on the, on the planning of things. Because like Tom is way more of a think ahead kind of let's have a plan for the way we work on songs, the what needs to be done when, so we hit deadlines and stuff. And for me it's always like, let's say I need to finish this song this week. I go into the studio, I hear one sample off splice that throws me in a different direction. And I'm just chasing that now

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

I'm inspired. So it's good to have like the balance of, okay, I get it. That. We're creatives and we need the, like, you can't fight that urge to work on something that inspires you, but you also need to kind of hit the deadlines and, you know, make sure everything's ready on time. Right.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

RIOT:

that's also, yeah, that's something we struggled in the past. Yeah, for sure. Like with, uh, deadlines and'cause, you know. People like you don't just like submit a track a day before it comes out. Yeah. we're very lucky in the sense of like, uh, we have a really good reputation of like, you know, I like a, our production and, um. And like, you know, and be our streams. So we, we are very fortunate, like, um, to have like the flexibility of some record labels that we work with. Yeah. But in most cases, you need to submit a song and wait six to 12 months for it to be out.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm.

RIOT:

know, and even when you have like really good, um, relationships, like the ones that we have, we still need to submit it like six to four weeks out. Yeah. And sometimes they let us replace like the file or something. Yeah. Like two days before we lease. Oh, can we, we did a mistake. Can you replace the Buster?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

Um, It's something that you need to learn how to master. Like I don't think, like, you know, no one is perfect, obviously, and this is a creative outlet, but it's very important to learn the balance between the artistic side of the business and the business side of the business. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. Yeah, It really does seem like such a delicate balance to find and I'm curious to go a little bit deeper into that with you

RIOT:

yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

'cause I guess on, on the business side, what is your thought process when it comes to actually making music? You know, like,'cause it to a certain

RIOT:

Certain extent. It's not like,

Nik Cherwink:

it's just

RIOT:

just like you

Nik Cherwink:

just make whatever the fuck we want, right? Like you're kind of like, you have a

RIOT:

have a sound, you have a,

Nik Cherwink:

you

RIOT:

mm-hmm. What is that difference?

Nik Cherwink:

when you're making music maybe a little bit

RIOT:

a little.

Nik Cherwink:

the business DJ producer side versus when you're like really fully on the artist side?

RIOT:

I think we're not the greatest example of that because I think that in most cases, we actually do do what we want. Yeah. And, and we are lucky enough, like lucky, it's like coming from a lot of hard work, obviously, but we are lucky enough to, to like, you know, to have the belief and the support of those record labels that like, you know, if, if Riot sends something. Also when it comes to ars. Stuff like that. Usually like, you know, as an up and comer artist, if you're watching this, like you send your track and then there is an a and r that's like obviously like yes or no, but also like, hey, what do you think about doing this? And what do you think about doing that? Yeah. We never have those kind of things like you, like we send a track, like this is the track. And it's pretty much like take it or live it because that's coming from within. You know what I mean?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

our attitude always. That was a, yeah. I

Nik Cherwink:

love

RIOT:

love that. I fucking love that you guys said that. That's just,

Nik Cherwink:

just

RIOT:

that's just my belief, you know? Yeah, yeah. There

Nik Cherwink:

there are a lot of

RIOT:

are a lot of artists that are,

Nik Cherwink:

they're

RIOT:

they're taking so much advice. They're looking at, mm-hmm. This is the sound that this label's putting out, or this is what the popular DJs are playing, so

Nik Cherwink:

that

RIOT:

Yes. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

you know,

RIOT:

We were never like that. That's a catch 22. Like that mindset. We, we were guilty of that as well, because. By the time you, you're chasing a track, Zomm boy put out or whoever. By the time you finish the track, that sounds like that one he's already working on the next thing.

Nik Cherwink:

Totally.

RIOT:

it's, and by the time it out, it's not relevant. Yeah, yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah. It's

RIOT:

yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

it really is a kind of a paradox

RIOT:

where you

Nik Cherwink:

think

RIOT:

think that, well, I, in order to be successful, and I think this is what it boils down to, is everybody is in a rush to succeed

Nik Cherwink:

as

RIOT:

as possible.

Nik Cherwink:

So, let

RIOT:

rush, don't rush.

Nik Cherwink:

me chase the

RIOT:

The trend

Nik Cherwink:

you know, the sound, but. Thinking that that would be the

RIOT:

fastest

Nik Cherwink:

be

RIOT:

success.

Nik Cherwink:

but ultimately by the time you get there, like we said, it's already outdated.

RIOT:

Exactly.

Nik Cherwink:

you know, maybe not the faster way, but the real, more sustainable way. Like, you know, you guys have been doing this shit for 13 years, right?

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

to really be sustainable is follow your own inspiration,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Authentic, you know,

RIOT:

Sounds, it sounds like a cliche, but it's really true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And

Nik Cherwink:

I think that's

RIOT:

I think that's the difference between being an artist and being, you know,

Nik Cherwink:

a

RIOT:

a,

Nik Cherwink:

copycat dj, which

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

hate to

RIOT:

I hate to say it's a lot. Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

and if

RIOT:

If you're listening to podcast,

Nik Cherwink:

and this isn't your first time hearing it. By now, you should know. That's just not the game that we're playing. Right. We

RIOT:

yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

we are trying to

RIOT:

Good.

Nik Cherwink:

here. We don't need more regurgitated copycat shit, right? There's a hundred thousand songs being uploaded to

RIOT:

Spotify every day.

Nik Cherwink:

we need more art, we need

RIOT:

We need more authenticity and originality. So Exactly. That's, that's the game.

Nik Cherwink:

I love that.

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm. Well,

RIOT:

Well, uh, okay.

Nik Cherwink:

let's go

RIOT:

Let's go back to this album. Tell me about the Machine, this new album.

Nik Cherwink:

is

RIOT:

is the,

Nik Cherwink:

I

RIOT:

I love, I just wanna say I love the branding.

Nik Cherwink:

fucking

RIOT:

you. Branding. You guys have a comic book. It's all illustrated. Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

I saw

RIOT:

I saw you guys have this

Nik Cherwink:

incredible merch

RIOT:

drop that.

Nik Cherwink:

it as well. Like I'm so curious to just know more about the

RIOT:

The actual

Nik Cherwink:

and the

RIOT:

story.

Nik Cherwink:

and the message behind it.

RIOT:

Yeah, so with the first album, the story was, uh, dogma Resistance, which is the name of the resistance group on earth. That comes together, to fight the invading force that is the machine. Right? So with this album, we were like, okay, would it be a sequel or whatever we were, when we were, uh, brainstorming about the narrative of it. And then we came up with the idea of it being like a prequel instead, and telling the story from the viewpoint of the machine. The creation of the machine

Nik Cherwink:

got it.

RIOT:

and, and like the origins of the machine. Yeah. The origins of it. So yeah, basically the, the, the way this comic book ends is the opening note of the first album, right?

Nik Cherwink:

Oh,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

Okay. I

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

that.

RIOT:

And then we.

Nik Cherwink:

can, can they be played seamlessly? Then You could play like

RIOT:

Ah, don't go. You're going too far here. You're going too, too far here. That's impossible to do. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, no, it's, it's really exciting. We, we thought that it would be really cool to actually go back in time instead of going forward to tell like, you know, the origins of the machine. So we, we went in that route. You will hear, first of all, it's, uh, a significantly be like, bigger album than our first album. First album was 10 songs. This album is 15 songs. No collaborations. All original. So it's, it's really, really exciting for the people. Like, there are a lot of Easter eggs within this album that, you know, like, uh, from the first album for people that actually like notice those kind of things. There's a lot more. Attention to detail with this album and the way that it flows from one song to another, to the interludes that are in it, to the multi genre that you have on this album. We honestly, like, we, we couldn't be more excited about this project. Mm-hmm. We'll send you the, we'll send you the link once we are done here, so you can have like a listen to the album before it's out.

Nik Cherwink:

Oh, please. Yeah, please. Um, what

RIOT:

What.

Nik Cherwink:

machine? What is, is this a metaphor for something like what does the actual machine

RIOT:

Represent. I think the beauty of it, honestly, it's um, for, for per listener, it will be anything from your own life.

Nik Cherwink:

Hmm.

RIOT:

anybody could like, relate and find a thing that it. His or hers like machine.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah,

RIOT:

We like to keep it like open-ended. I, I don't, I don't believe artists should like, feed you the, you know, just translation of their art.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah,

RIOT:

But yeah, I think it's, uh, in general like, you know, like both through dog resistance and this one as well. Like we, we obviously we love fiction. Yeah, like, you know, we love movies, we like, we like video games, we love metal. So it's more for us about like creating. A world that like, also like if you listen both to dogma resistance and also this one, you have like two plus minutes of like intro in which like we're bringing you into the world of this album

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

it takes you, it takes you. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it like, and also. At the end of the album, which we did also with the first album, like there is a very kind of like a roll the credit kind of song. Yeah. Its kind of song that is very much like not in dm, like it was like in the first album. It was like. Eighties, like disco kind of funky vibe and sense wave kind of. And with this one is actually like a hip hop, hip hop track. It's cool, cool track. So it's like ease you out. So we capturing you in, you are with, you are with us for the next 55 minutes

Nik Cherwink:

let's go.

RIOT:

like let it take you wherever it takes you and then ease you back out Yeah. To to reality. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

love that. I, I, I think

RIOT:

Think.

Nik Cherwink:

artists. Have the vision and the desire to kind of create a world, create a universe around either, you know, their brand and their project or around, you know, doing an album. I think a lot of

RIOT:

A lot of people have that idea. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

but to

RIOT:

To actually execute.

Nik Cherwink:

seems pretty freaking hard.

RIOT:

It seems

Nik Cherwink:

beyond

RIOT:

beyond just making the music, obviously.

Nik Cherwink:

the. Artwork, like you

RIOT:

Like you guys

Nik Cherwink:

must have

RIOT:

have

Nik Cherwink:

a

RIOT:

invested a lot.

Nik Cherwink:

the

RIOT:

Oh,

Nik Cherwink:

branding.

RIOT:

of dollars. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

That's

RIOT:

Really. I'm

Nik Cherwink:

about.

RIOT:

about what does it actually.

Nik Cherwink:

to, you know, actually

RIOT:

Actually fund

Nik Cherwink:

know,'cause you know, in the, on the

RIOT:

the old days,

Nik Cherwink:

a record

RIOT:

a record label, and you get a million dollar contract and they're paying for mm-hmm. Everything. And then they, they make all the money after that too.

Nik Cherwink:

yeah. But

RIOT:

So for this one, for this one, it is actually like, it will be a good opportunity to shout out Matt Meny. He's been working with us, uh, he have been working with us, um, for quite a while now. He did the first album with us Dogma Resistance. The comic also came with the comic book. Yeah. So he's a creative director, uh, together with us, uh, for this album. So we sat down there is a full team. Of like, you know, writers that, that came on this project. By the way, the, the, let me just say this. Yeah. The writers, it means the comic book, not the music. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

yeah. You're like, we wrote that shit ourselves.

RIOT:

yeah. So that's, that, that, that's an important note. But yeah, there is anything from like, you know. Team of writers to the story, to the art, to the colors, to the letters, to the cover art, to like, it's, it's, it's like then bring it to visuals for shows as well. Yeah. We also did like a package of visuals. Like,

Nik Cherwink:

Is this an agency that you guys hired that,

RIOT:

uh, it's an individual, um, he's like, his name is Matt Meny. But I think that he's brand. Hero projects, that's his brand. Um, that's like, you know, that, that, that's what, that's what I do. That's a bread and butter essentially. So he actually works with like, uh, writers and uh, uh, animation people. He was a team. Yeah. He's like the, the, the, the, the chief, uh, like, you know, he's the project manager. And we're, we are in communication with them, like pretty much on a daily basis in more than a year time now. Like doing mood boards for every chapter and what is this chapter talking about and like which songs are going to come out before the album and what they represent. Yeah. Yeah, honestly, huge, huge, huge project.

Nik Cherwink:

That's so

RIOT:

That's so cool.

Nik Cherwink:

again, I think so many people like, you know, have that idea, maybe I have the vision, but then it's like, I don't know, you're trying to make

RIOT:

Make it yourself,

Nik Cherwink:

know,

RIOT:

know? Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

you know, it's

RIOT:

It's like how do you actually make it come to life? Like to make it

Nik Cherwink:

at

RIOT:

at that level. It's like, yeah, you gotta, you gotta work with the team.

Nik Cherwink:

know, you really

RIOT:

Right.

Nik Cherwink:

you

RIOT:

Absolutely.

Nik Cherwink:

and you gotta hire other people. And I think,

RIOT:

I think I

Nik Cherwink:

about that

RIOT:

about that a lot as being like headliner mindset. I,

Nik Cherwink:

There is the

RIOT:

the bedroom producer mindset,

Nik Cherwink:

is,

RIOT:

is

Nik Cherwink:

everything

RIOT:

everything by myself. Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

I do the mixing and mastering by

RIOT:

By myself

Nik Cherwink:

the artwork by myself. I, I

RIOT:

by, do you know It's

Nik Cherwink:

that you can't scale that way.

RIOT:

right? Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

this other level of, when you really are becoming a headliner, it's like, yo, we're talking about teams, creative teams,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

like management teams. It's like running a

RIOT:

a

Nik Cherwink:

that

RIOT:

business.

Nik Cherwink:

is, uh, about. Teamwork and partnership and investment and delegation.

RIOT:

Yeah, you can't do it all. But also it's like every other business, Nick, you know like when you have a business and the business is growing, like you need to invest more money into the business in order to grow it even more. you know what we invested in this album is probably five times more than what we invested in Dog resistance. Financially, I'm talking about, right? Yeah. So back then, but the five times more that we invested into this album. Was hard for us to do as much as it was hard for us to do, to invest a fifth back in the dogma resistance days. Yeah. You know, so it's like, yes, five times more than money, but like how important it is to actually like, you know, pour and invest into your a like art, like both financially, time, you know, uh, sweat, blood tears, you name it. Yeah. Like, it's, it, it's, it's hard. It's part of like, you know, being an artist and also being a business owner. Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, yeah. Because you know, right with the, the investment, there's a difference between an expense and an investment. An

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

is something that we're just spending is kind of going out the window, but

RIOT:

Window.

Nik Cherwink:

is like, all

RIOT:

Like we're gonna put,

Nik Cherwink:

but we're

RIOT:

we're also gonna hopefully,

Nik Cherwink:

back. Hopefully we're gonna make it back by 10. Right. You guys put in

RIOT:

yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

you

RIOT:

Hopefully, man, I, that I,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

gotta happen. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

you

RIOT:

But yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

are, you guys are also, um, doing a tour around this as well

RIOT:

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

is a big reason as an artist in the electronic music space, you know, as much as it is a singles driven business, and you can obviously just be, you know, touring by putting out singles when you put out an album, it gives you a really great opportunity to launch a specific tour around that album. That is something that you guys are doing and, um, would love to hear about that. Is, has that started yet? Or you guys are

RIOT:

You guys preparing.

Nik Cherwink:

the tour? When's

RIOT:

Um, so our first headline, uh, date is actually like this weekend, which is a day after the album release. Um mm-hmm. Which is very exciting. Um, Dallas. Uh, Dallas. Yes. So that's the, that's the, essentially that's the first time that we're doing something off this scale. This also something that strategically was. Through very, very well. Like as of like two years ago, like we started to have conversations about that. That actually lead to a strategy that, for example, like there are some cities that we decided, decided like we got offers. And also something to talk about for up and common artist. Like, you know, when you get. Like shows offer, like when you even secure an agency to begin with and then you get an offer, you get so excited and it's like obviously like a yes, but there's also an art that like is the art of saying no. Hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm.

RIOT:

And B, also more strategically about that. And I can tell you that in the past, like year and a half, or almost even two years, we strategically declined offers because we were building for this tour because we wanted to, when people see us, to actually like a, get the full vision. And get the maximum experience that we can provide to them as fans that are supporting buying tickets, buying merch, streaming our music. We wanted to give them something more than just like, oh yeah, we love your music, so just come to my city and I'll watch you play. We invested. Tens of thousand dollars on those visuals, tens of thousand dollars like on this like comic book and storyline behind this album. And honestly, like, I, I think I can talk for both of us that like we couldn't be more proud of this project and we couldn't be more excited to share that in real life with, with our fans.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah, let's go you guys. I'm fucking excited for you. That's so cool.

RIOT:

Thank you man. Thank you. And I love.

Nik Cherwink:

lesson of like, yeah, like saying no really building demand also like, and,

RIOT:

Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

it from a place of like, Hey, we, we want, I wanna give you the

RIOT:

the best.

Nik Cherwink:

it's

RIOT:

It's gonna take a little bit longer.

Nik Cherwink:

actually

RIOT:

It's the thing as an up and coming artist, also, it also hurt, uh, a little bit for us to say no to some festivals because we were like, okay, in a year from now, we're seeing ourselves in a way better spot. Like career wise. Yeah. And what we, what we're worth. So we're gonna say no to that festival today,

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

uh, knowing that by a year from now Yeah. We're gonna get a better offer. Only we're be now only few months ago. We don't need to name names and stuff. Yeah. But only few months from now, we got a, our first offer to play a main stage at a big festival. Big, big base festival. Yeah. So that, so that's the f like, you know, and as an artist, like that's your dream, that's what you dream of, right? Yeah. To get like a main stage offer. And that was the first time that we got that. And that's the first time we also said no to something of that like magnitude, you know what I mean? Wasn't easy. Uh, and that was like, we were like, like we were looking at each other like, are we insane for doing this? Yeah. Like that's what we've been waiting for. But at the same time, like yes, strategy and thinking like, you know, ahead, like, you know. Thinking about like 10, 10 steps from now. Not about like right here, right now, but actually building something sustainable that is gonna be long lasting. Because that's what's, that's what we wish for ourself, you know? And there is like, you know, a reason like if you go in this route, then yes, you can have success, but your success is going to be very short term. Or you build a foundation and you take your time and you create your own sound and your own voice, and it's definitely gonna take longer. Oh, absolutely. Like 13 years as in a short amount of time, you know? Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

I, I love

RIOT:

I love.

Nik Cherwink:

this so much though because you know. I'm coaching artists, I'm talking to artists every day. Artists are reaching out, wanting to work with me, and, and it's like

RIOT:

Like,

Nik Cherwink:

I see this common trend just back to that desire for success and wanting it to happen so quickly

RIOT:

Now,

Nik Cherwink:

now it's like, I wanna happen, I wanna happen now.

RIOT:

now

Nik Cherwink:

started producing.

RIOT:

doesn't work like that.

Nik Cherwink:

eight months.

RIOT:

Months.

Nik Cherwink:

ago. And I'm now, I'm putting out my music and I wanna blow up. And I'm like,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

you gotta, you know, everyone is focusing. I feel like there's this race

RIOT:

race to the bottom

Nik Cherwink:

everybody is

RIOT:

is focusing so much on

Nik Cherwink:

content and building their audience and I gotta post every day and it's all this anxious energy and I'm just kind of bringing it back to like. What are you

RIOT:

energy.

Nik Cherwink:

in the first place? What are you

RIOT:

Right.

Nik Cherwink:

to the table? I'm like, let's bring it back to the music. Just a lot of

RIOT:

Right.

Nik Cherwink:

is, is half baked because you're putting so much pressure on yourself to be like, I gotta be putting something out every single fucking month. And

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

you're not actually giving that the time that it deserves to really

RIOT:

Especially

Nik Cherwink:

your. craft, develop your artistry, develop your sound. Actually really make something that's gonna make a fucking difference, because

RIOT:

that's crucial.

Nik Cherwink:

better

RIOT:

true.

Nik Cherwink:

is, the easier everything else becomes.

RIOT:

That's so crucial.

Nik Cherwink:

in the first place, it's like you gotta be really good at marketing, but

RIOT:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

shit is, it's like it makes the rest of it

RIOT:

Going back, going back to 2012 like now looking back, we, we, we were exactly that. Exactly that. Yeah. We were like, we, we are ready. Let's go like tomorrow and main stage like we're waiting on, on, on the fucking phone call. Right? Yeah. Like, like we, we are ready. It's happening. But actually it's so crucial the point that you brought up because like, it doesn't work that way. If, and if there is like, honestly, like one of the most important advice. That we can give as well is like, especially for like, you know, beginner artists and up and comer artists who haven't launched yet. Take your fucking time. Yeah, take your time. Like, don't have like fucking five songs that you think that are going to change the industry. Have 25 of them before you even thinking about launching your project and because that way. Um, like, you know, since we pretty much feel like since we saw the project 13 years ago, like now we're not in that place, but for a decade, pretty much it felt like we're always chasing our tail. Yeah. Always chasing our tail. Finish one single. Right. Before. Before and, and if, and if we, and if we were more patient Yeah. Back in the day, like it, like we wouldn't, we would've like, you know, like we could have been in a completely different place right now. Mm-hmm. And have a completely different conversation, you know? Yeah. Just

Nik Cherwink:

can't be a great artist without

RIOT:

Without giving it the time that it actually takes to be Absolutely. Exactly, absolutely right.

Nik Cherwink:

Right. And, and not

RIOT:

And not to say like,

Nik Cherwink:

shouldn't

RIOT:

shouldn't put your music out. You know, like, yeah. But

Nik Cherwink:

is just

RIOT:

it's just like everybody is focusing 80% on like

Nik Cherwink:

and content and building their audience and 20% on the music, and it's like, it's gotta be the other way around. Like

RIOT:

Right.

Nik Cherwink:

90% of your time on the music, at least in the

RIOT:

I,

Nik Cherwink:

until

RIOT:

also.

Nik Cherwink:

the point that it's actually really going to be able to do

RIOT:

To do something. Yeah. Yeah. I also feel for, uh, like up and comers, uh, today it's, it's harder with, with like absolutely. The market, being oversaturated with artists that are doing the same kind of quarter note rhythm or whatever. We feel that as well. It's hard. Yeah. As an up and comer, like, as, as an like, I don't know, call, call us an established up and come Right. We, we, we still, we feel those things. Yeah. We still are, we still feel like up and come is Yeah. In our, in our own way too.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm. you

RIOT:

do you guys feel,

Nik Cherwink:

you know, as much as you are up and comers, you

RIOT:

you are, are successful and at a certain level.

Nik Cherwink:

you know, you're, you're, doing a

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

tour, you know,

RIOT:

So

Nik Cherwink:

would, I would

RIOT:

I would know,

Nik Cherwink:

still, you know.

RIOT:

you know,

Nik Cherwink:

level to get to, but you're definitely not up and

RIOT:

sure.

Nik Cherwink:

but, but

RIOT:

But at the level that at now

Nik Cherwink:

do you guys

RIOT:

you guys, uh,

Nik Cherwink:

like,

RIOT:

like,

Nik Cherwink:

I guess what

RIOT:

I guess what kind of pressure.

Nik Cherwink:

do you feel at

RIOT:

At that stage,

Nik Cherwink:

like,

RIOT:

like this is your livelihood.

Nik Cherwink:

are, a

RIOT:

at a certain stage of success,

Nik Cherwink:

kind

RIOT:

kind of

Nik Cherwink:

challenges and pressure do you notice come with that?

RIOT:

Well, definitely selling tickets in a headlight tour. I think, yeah, I think that the stage that we are right now is, um like, you know, you can't avoid that, but it is also like. The most stressful time in your artistic career, and I'll explain why. Because you know, when you're an up and comer or like a beginner like artist and you're playing shows, you mainly play like, you know, support shows for bigger artists and you're playing like, you know, you have festival slots, but you're playing very early, usually open the, the stage and stuff like that. But when you kind of like become. An established artist, like there's such a big jump that you need to go over in order to establish yourself as an established artist, and that jump is jumping from support and opening slots into a headliner. And this is like the craziest jump that you'll probably do in your career. Yeah. And the scariest one as well, because it changes everything now. Like when you play a support it's the craziest fun you can have. Yeah. Because you have zero responsibility. Yeah. And in most cases you're playing to like such big crowds because of the headliners. And you've taken your check, so it's like it's a win-win situation for you. Yeah. If the show doesn't do well, it's not on you. It's not on you. And like becoming a headliner. Which is a crucial moment in your career. It's also the scariest one because this is all the responsibilities on you.

Nik Cherwink:

Mm-hmm.

RIOT:

now it's the first time we're doing like, you know, a headline tour like we're doing right now. We have 14 support acts on this tour to even bring more value. Yeah, we did, like, we spent so much on like, you know, bringing like this comic book and visuals to life in order for people to like, you know, actually get the music, but also. Like get the full story on the screens as well. But at the end of the day, like if we did all of that and we cannot sell tickets, because at the end of the day, it's a business, like every other business. Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's supply and demand. Uh, as easy as that. So the pressure of selling tickets and, and how much is important to support like those up and come artists and on their headline tours is because there's so much that it's actually behind the scenes that people are not aware of. Right? Like we announced it to where like 30 plus headline dates tour all across North America, and we still have people be like, why do you hate us? Why are you not coming here? And I'm like, I, I want to. I, I really want to come there. You know, I really want, there's nothing more than we would love, than travel the world and play our music to people that loves our music, and we're a part of their day-to-day life, you know? But at the same time, like the, the, the, the general public needs to understand that it's a business and their is supply and demand. Do you want to see your artist at your hometown? Then interact with their social media, comment, share, tell your friends, tag your local promoters, and raise the demands in order for that to be enough for them to reach out to our agency and book a show. Yeah. And also like when you see festivals, for example, um, I don't think people know that, but like the time slot that you have in the festival, more than 90% of it is directly impacted by the amount of tickets that you sold on your headline tour. In that club in a, in, in the region that this club or festival. Festival is at festival. So if we're playing Seattle, for example, so that's have directly affected TacomaDome to Base Canyon, you know, like if you're playing like around Ohio for example, then that's direct effect to Los Lanes if playing, um, like Miami or Florida in general. So that's direct effect to ultra. So that's, that's what they look at. Yeah. That, that's, that's how those.

Nik Cherwink:

ticket

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

shows

RIOT:

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You know, and also like people, like, I've also mad like, why are you playing so early? I wa I wasn't even able to go through the doors. Yeah. And I'm like, I, I'm, trust me, I wanna play prime time. But are you willing to put the work as well in order to help us get there? Or you just want to complain? Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

What can headlining artists do to help increase the

RIOT:

Increase

Nik Cherwink:

and sell tickets to their

RIOT:

the shows. I, in a perfect world, I wanna tell you to speak through their music, but like, unfortunately, like, you know, we're in a day and age that social media, like pretty much took cover the world in every way, shape, or form. And it's a constant battle for us, even on a daily basis. You know, like I can tell you that we can't really relate with everything that is going on with social media. We're also not young. Both of us are 35, you know, so it's very unnatural for us, but we're still trying to find a way, to be relevant on those platforms. We, in the past year, like, you know, we grew from 70,000 followers on Instagram to almost 150. We grew from a thousand followers on TikTok to 77,000 followers on TikTok based on music post and based on music, which is the hardest thing to do. Yeah. Without doing all those, like, you know, cringy TikTok trends, TikTok dances, comments like, you know.

Nik Cherwink:

huge.

RIOT:

So that's,

Nik Cherwink:

I, I really love though that you pointed that out.'cause that's where a lot of

RIOT:

yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

with social media is they're like, I don't

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

on here and fucking do some cheesy shit. So

RIOT:

Mm-hmm.

Nik Cherwink:

able to do that really when you, you said

RIOT:

said

Nik Cherwink:

through music posts. So can you elaborate on

RIOT:

on that.

Nik Cherwink:

What helped you grow and, and also stay authentic to just really making it about the music?

RIOT:

I think for us it's uh, a lot of, uh, clips from shows or from the studios. Even the ones where you were filming, like behind my back. Yeah. Stuff like that. For example, one of those videos, I think it was Redemption, it blew up. Yeah. But we filmed like six of five, five other different songs and none of them did as well. So you can never really, oh my God. Pinpoint the formula. The guts of the algorithm are work in mysterious ways, but this is also the thing.

Nik Cherwink:

that's the thing though too,

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

not just the gods of the algorithm, but you made fucking six videos. You

RIOT:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

a

RIOT:

Of people

Nik Cherwink:

are maybe

RIOT:

are maybe,

Nik Cherwink:

one video and then wondering like, oh, it didn't work. Fuck the

RIOT:

and also the,

Nik Cherwink:

no, go do 10 more, you

RIOT:

it's a numbers game. The con, the constant war, the constant internal word that you have with yourself every time. Like, you know, I can tell you that most of the clips that went viral for us, because like we have. We have almost 300 million streams, uh, like on across like, you know, uh, music platforms and also like on social media, we have tens of like millions. Um, but I can tell you that in most cases, the stuff that we didn't think that will work blew the fuck up. Yeah. And stuff that we were certain that will go viral, completely flopped. Yeah. So like I, the best advice that I can give, it's like it's send and forgets. Try to not like, it's, it's easy to say and hard to do, but don't overanalyze and don't let it bring you down. Mm-hmm. Just like send and forget. Next, next, next. Always look at the bigger picture instead of right here, right now. Because at the end of the day, all those. Songs or tracks, or pieces of social media content or one piece of the puzzle. Look at the entire puzzle because it's like, it's a hundred thousand pieces puzzle. Yeah. Not just like a 10 piece puzzle, you know what I mean?

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

Um, so yeah, don't overstress and like, try as much as possible. Don't overthink, don't compare yourself to other people because that's, that's not even relevant. Yeah. Like, you know, we are all artists and we create our own music. There is no way that someone will do what I have inside my brain. What Daniel? Side his brain. So there is place for everybody. I don't look at it as competition. It's, if anything, it's, it's like I love to seeing people succeed, especially people that I know personally. And I root for them. Like there is genuinely place for like, it's not that someone come on my expense on, I come on someone else's expense. Yeah. You know,

Nik Cherwink:

I love that. I love that

RIOT:

I love that you that last part up because you know.

Nik Cherwink:

as an artist coach, and whether I'm working with someone who's

RIOT:

Who's

Nik Cherwink:

up or

RIOT:

up

Nik Cherwink:

I'm working with a, a touring headliner like

RIOT:

tour like yourself?

Nik Cherwink:

is one of the

RIOT:

One of the most common

Nik Cherwink:

things that

RIOT:

things that I see.

Nik Cherwink:

with is comparison. Right?

RIOT:

Yeah, right. Why is this person

Nik Cherwink:

up, or why is this person they got booked, you know, higher than we did? You

RIOT:

good for them? Fuck yeah. Exactly.

Nik Cherwink:

that's always what I bring it back to is celebrate them, man.

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

enough room to go around, there's a space for everyone. So that, that shift in that

RIOT:

Mindset is always one of the biggest one I'm offering, which is

Nik Cherwink:

to

RIOT:

to celebrate,

Nik Cherwink:

When you

RIOT:

When you're living in the energy of.

Nik Cherwink:

like you're

RIOT:

You're very different life and creating

Nik Cherwink:

results and when, when you're living in the

RIOT:

the energy of

Nik Cherwink:

me, I'm a victim, why are they

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

like

RIOT:

And and also let it inspire you. Yeah. Let it inspire you to, to get to that place. You, it should make

Nik Cherwink:

totally.

RIOT:

harder, basically. Work harder and become undeniable in your art. Like, that's the way I always looked at it when it comes to like, the music side of it is like, I'm just gonna get. To be the best at it. At, at what I do, try to, to be the best. And at some point it becomes undeniable. And I think that's true for business, sports, whatever analogy you wanna fill in the blank. Yeah, yeah. You work hard, you put in your money, your time, and you get very good at what you do at your craft, which is and don't give up, which is also a very, very, very important advice that I can give because there's obviously like there's. Like, I dunno, millions of like very, very talented young producers out there that like, you know, like you said, Nick, like they want it, like they want it and they want it now.

Nik Cherwink:

Yeah.

RIOT:

it doesn't work that, that like, that way. And the, the, and the thing that's, I think the frit between people that actually make it to the people that not is the self-belief that you have with yourself. Like take, be patient and create your own voice and sound. But also don't give up. Yeah, don't give up. Keep at it. Keep at it. Keep at it. Like, look at us like we're 13 years, like on this project alone. And I think like that's, that's, um, that's a point where people, most people will be like, fuck, it doesn't work. Like I quit. Yeah. Even earlier. Yeah, for sure. For

Nik Cherwink:

sure. Well, and I

RIOT:

I think

Nik Cherwink:

Part of

RIOT:

part of this also has to be, and correct me if I'm wrong, but

Nik Cherwink:

it's like, you gotta

RIOT:

you gotta love this shit.

Nik Cherwink:

too.

RIOT:

Yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

You real, it's like that's the only thing that's

RIOT:

That's really gonna keep you in is, it's like

Nik Cherwink:

I, I'm

RIOT:

I'm hearing obviously it's like,

Nik Cherwink:

consistent, Keep. Working

RIOT:

working at it. Don't give up. Also like,

Nik Cherwink:

really love that you said it's just

RIOT:

just like become

Nik Cherwink:

un undeniable.

RIOT:

Mm-hmm. There's

Nik Cherwink:

Stop looking for the quick fix. Focus on becoming the best you can possibly be, and that talent is gonna be undeniable. That

RIOT:

mm-hmm. Consistency,

Nik Cherwink:

be what gets you there. But

RIOT:

but also I think, you know,

Nik Cherwink:

gotta

RIOT:

gotta love this shit.

Nik Cherwink:

It's like

RIOT:

Yeah. Right.

Nik Cherwink:

if you

RIOT:

Don't love it.

Nik Cherwink:

just, you're in the

RIOT:

You're in the wrong game. If you lose the love for it, you're never gonna succeed.

Nik Cherwink:

You're not,

RIOT:

yeah.

Nik Cherwink:

You're not gonna stick

RIOT:

Yeah,

Nik Cherwink:

Well, I will

RIOT:

Well, I'll say

Nik Cherwink:

guys

RIOT:

guys are absolutely

Nik Cherwink:

unfucking deniable. I'm

RIOT:

Thank you.

Nik Cherwink:

for the new album that's dropping.

RIOT:

So excited.

Nik Cherwink:

tour.

RIOT:

You guys are listening. Go

Nik Cherwink:

check

RIOT:

check out the dates and you.

Nik Cherwink:

a bass music fan and you want to go get fucking crazy and you want to go ride the rail, or whatever you young kids are doing these days, uh. Raya is a group you are not gonna want to miss. So go check out their tour dates and make sure that you catch them. Make sure that you're engaging, you know, in social media. And, uh, just super excited

RIOT:

Excited for you

Nik Cherwink:

you

RIOT:

guys. Thank you. Taking the time to come on and I hope I get to see you again soon, so I know you're not coming to Austin, but

Nik Cherwink:

gonna, we're gonna see each other again at some point.

RIOT:

for sure. Thank you for having us, Nick. Always awesome.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Nik Cherwink

Host