Headliner Mindset

NIMDA: Tearout, Burnout & How To Survive The Madness

• Nik Cherwink

Share episode

In this episode of the Headliner Mindset Podcast, I sit down with one of my coaching clients NIMDA for a raw, honest conversation about the realities of building a career in heavy music.

We talk about touring burnout, creative pressure, comparison, and what it actually takes to stay mentally healthy while flying nonstop, staying up all night making music, and performing at a high level.

NMDA opens up about:

  • Burnout from touring and constant travel
  • The pressure of making new music for every set
  • Staying disciplined without burning out
  • Letting go of comparison and worst-case thinking
  • Why great music and a strong brand matter more than going viral

This episode is for artists who love what they do — but are feeling the weight of it.

If you’re chasing the dream and trying not to lose yourself in the process, this conversation will hit home.

Follow NIMDA here:
www.instagram.com/nimda_uk

And follow Nik Cherwink here:
www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

Speaker 2:

if your whole brand looks good and your music sounds good, it's going to turn heads. That's gonna do more for you than any viral reel. anyone who goes viral, it usually doesn't last.

Speaker 3:

​what's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. Now, as many of you know, this is gonna be one of my final episodes. That's right. I am moving on to greener pastures, and by greener, I literally mean greener. I'm gonna be moving to Denver pretty soon to start a new job and a whole new chapter in life. So more on that to come in my final episode. But In the meantime, I've got a really special interview to share with you with one of my coaching clients, nmda, who was here in Austin, all the way from the uk. Playing with Sudden Death at his summoning fest, which was absolutely insane. These guys are total mad men on stage. If you haven't seen them, you've gotta see them. They're wild. So in this episode we talk about why he came to me for coaching, how he was struggling with burnout from touring and getting caught up in comparison, and how we navigated through some of the mental challenges that he was dealing with on his artist journey, as well as taking a peek into his creative process, which is absolutely insane because this guy makes new music for almost every single show that he plays. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with nmda.

Speaker:

All right. We are just gonna raw dog this motherfucker.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker:

No prep whatsoever. Last minute. Rent a studio. Ninda is in town. Let's go baby.

Speaker 2:

We have zero notes.

Speaker:

Well, welcome. Let's give everybody a little bit of context about how we're here. You're in Austin all the way from the other side of the world.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker:

Where do you live?

Speaker 2:

I'm from, uh, Surrey in the uk. And we're here for Summoning Fest.

Speaker:

Summoning Fest. Wicked Oaks. Wicked Oaks. Austin, Texas with Sudden Death.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Bunch of other people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. Which

Speaker 2:

is, uh, currently. Yeah. Pretty complicated.

Speaker:

Yeah. We were supposed to hang out last night. Yeah. Um, first time I've been, I've seen a festival at this location here in Austin. It took, uh, it took two hours to get in.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

It's a one way street. I don't know how many thousands of people. Yeah. About a hour to get the guest list sorted. Boring rain got in for about 15 minutes and then, uh, it was evacuated'cause of lightning. So,

Speaker 2:

yeah, it was, uh, that

Speaker:

was fun.

Speaker 2:

Yep. And now it's very muddy. And my shoes look like this.

Speaker:

Yeah. My car's covered in mud. Yeah. Shoes. Yeah. I wore white shoes last night also. Not the move.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, but I think it's pretty fucking cool that you are here on the other side of the world, living your dream. Touring, playing your music in front of thousands of people. So, things have been really kind of taken off for you. You just got signed with Ben Hogan? Yep. At UTA, one of the biggest talent bookers. One of the biggest booking agents. In the scene. Uh, check out my episode with Ben Hogan. If you wanna learn about what a booking agent is, how it works, that's like one of the best episodes I have. But you're getting your, your team built and things are really happening for you. So what's been working, you're at that point in your career where it's like, it's that next level where, yeah, you're getting to play shows, you're flying around, like what really has helped you get there?

Speaker 2:

Uh, re relentless stressed. Um, no, it, I mean, I like to think that I. I've done everything I've done just purely through dropping music. Like I'm not like that good at like networking and stuff. I have a lot of good friends that I'm lucky to have that, you know, have helped me a lot. But,, I like to think that I made those friends through them finding my music and yeah, I'm just very, uh, I spend a lot of time making music and making sure it's. What I wanted to be.

Speaker:

So it hasn't been from making, tiktoks and dancing?

Speaker 2:

No, the opposite. I've never made a TikTok other than like posting show footage.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That I've just basically posted on my Instagram already.

Speaker:

Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, no, I've never done a dance.

Speaker:

So you've just been grinding and putting out a shit ton of music?

Speaker 2:

Pretty much. I mean every year I try and, make music that's. More aggressive than every single person ever. Yeah. And that's it.

Speaker:

Yeah. And I think that's a, an interesting space to look at, uh, because you definitely are making a style of music that is incredibly aggressive. I don't know if it's metal or electronic music. It's like a pretty solid combination of both. It's like, it would, you know, be probably considered a very niche genre. Right? Yeah. You're not chasing trends by any means. What has been driving you and what have you been following in this pursuit of making music?

Speaker 2:

Um, well, I'd definitely say at this point, especially like the stuff I'm releasing soon, it's definitely a hybrid now of like, the most aggressive, side of metal and the most aggressive side of dubstep. I hate calling it hybrid metal because. I don't know. It kind of cringes me out, but I guess that's what it is at this point. I've always loved to just, try and make the threshold of like heaviness. I'm definitely not the heaviest producer ever. There's probably people I could name that are way heavier, but I try and be that

Speaker:

that's the north star,

Speaker 2:

that that's my goal is to always try and. Hit that threshold

Speaker:

is to be as heavy and as as aggressive as possible. Mm-hmm. Do you think you're gonna become unaggressive someday?

Speaker 2:

No.

Speaker:

Are are you gonna just be like, you know, I'm kind of fucking,

Speaker 2:

I mean, me as a person, I'm not aggressive, but what I create is always,

Speaker:

yeah. Yeah. Do you ever just make like some, you know, I don't know, lo-fi beats or something on, you know, for fun on the side? Yeah. You ever make anything Not aggressive.

Speaker 2:

I mean, whenever I get like writer's block, yeah. Or I'm just burnt out. I tend to just make random, like, ambient songs.

Speaker:

Yeah. We would love to hear the, nim the, uh, ambient album.

Speaker 2:

Well, actually the set we're playing today, the changeover music is, uh, like an ambient song I made.

Speaker:

I love it. Let's go. We finally get to hear some.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Uh, let's talk about your set. Tonight. You're playing back to back with Sudden Death and.

Speaker 2:

And Y being free.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I find this really interesting. You said you've been coming out to Dallas

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

To work with Sudden Death.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Making original music for this set.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Right. Which I think is something that different than what a lot of people do, which is more like, let me put my DJ set together and I'm gonna like dig through tracks and I'm gonna, you know, be putting these tracks together to dj. Whereas you guys are like, no, we're gonna literally create brand new music for this set. I feel like a lot of people aren't doing that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, that's not just this set in particular, like, I mean, me, sudden Death and Y VM three are all big. Um, like, we like playing as much original music as possible and try and make as much new music as possible for the sets we play. So with us playing this together, we, we all, um, flew. Yeah, we all flew. Sund death's house and just rotted for weeks and pretty much, yeah. Made as many songs as possible for this set. In the last week we've been gonna bed at 9:00 AM

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

And waking up at 9:00 PM

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

So I actually haven't seen much sunlight in the last week.

Speaker:

Yeah, true vampires.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, we've, we've made a, a lot of stuff. So this set is pretty much, well, it is all original.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But, um. Yeah. Some of it's collabs of all of us. Some of it's collabs of just like me and sudden me and w free those two individually and then it's like some solo stuff from us all.

Speaker:

Is that all music that you're gonna release and put out?

Speaker 2:

Nah,

Speaker:

no.

Speaker 2:

Some of it is like un releasable.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Some of it is like pure, like, I don't know. Just only for life.

Speaker:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um,

Speaker:

what, so what, what distinguishes that?

Speaker 2:

Uh, like some of it is just. Like it goes, like as songs we've made that are super. I dunno what the right word is. Like just brain rock. Like it's too heavy to release. Yeah. Like uh,

Speaker:

like you wouldn't even wanna listen to it on

Speaker 2:

tv. You wouldn't. That's what I'm saying. You wouldn't wanna listen to it. Yeah. But seeing it live is cool. Yeah. But like you wouldn't wanna listen to it.

Speaker:

Yeah. You wanna feel it on massive speakers with huge production.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Some of it is literally like white noise.

Speaker:

Yeah, it's wild. Now I know though, this is something that you do for your normal sets as well.'cause. We worked together when you were my coaching client.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And that was often something you were working on was like, I have a set coming up. I need to make a bunch of music for my set. Mm-hmm. Which is, again, I've never had a client like that. Usually it's like, Hey, I need to put my set together and dig through the tracks that I'm gonna, you know, mix during the set. Mm-hmm. But you're like, I need to go make all of the music for my set. Almost like every set. It seemed like you're just making new music for

Speaker 2:

Pretty much. Yeah. I'm I base. Yeah. I put a lot of. A lot of pressure on myself of that. Uh,

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's not only the making new music for sets that it is, the, the stressful part is like changing my set every time.'cause I don't want to play the same set every time.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I'll probably play the same songs, but I try and reorder them and like create little moments and edits every time that are different. For example, like. The part of my set where I get everyone to run in a circle and like, or I get everyone to get a phone light out. Like I try and create different moments like that throughout and yeah, I'm constantly stressing about trying to get new songs in there and move those moments around and create different ones. Yeah, it's a lot. And um, I know pretty much everyone I know who's makes the same type of music as me is the same. I dunno if it's just a heavy. A tear out thing.

Speaker:

It's a, I think it's a tear out thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So everybody's like making new music for their sets constantly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. A lot of people I know are the same.

Speaker:

Yeah. Huh. So, all right, let's talk about this. Putting a ton of pressure on yourself all the time. Um mm. Because someone who has been my, life coaching client that came to me for support with, uh, yeah. Mindset stuff. Yeah. And navigating this wild fucking journey of being an artist. Um, yeah. I still care about you. Yeah. And I wanna, and I want, I, we're gonna shift this into a life coaching session now. Let's do it. Let's,'cause I know that you are coming from the uk. You're oftentimes. You're like, yeah, I just played a show in like New York. Yeah. And like, it's not like you're coming from Florida or something, you know, you're like flying like eight hours or more. Right. To go to your shows and then you'll just turn around and go right back home. Yeah. So between that, you're staying up till 9:00 AM every night making music. You're fucking flying eight to 10 hours for your shows. Like, how are you doing dude? Are you, are you good?

Speaker 2:

I'm good. I'm a psychopath.

Speaker:

You are? I can attest to this.

Speaker 2:

I'm, uh, you know, I'm good. I mean. Like music's my full-time job, which is very fortunate. So I can somehow do things like that and not, go insane. Um, I do go insane sometimes, but I actually, that, that's the main reason I do fly home between every show.'cause if I stay out here for too long, I just. I like, get very homesick and also I will just start gonna bed at 9:00 AM and waking up at 9:00 PM Yeah. And, uh, getting no sleep. And so yeah. I'd rather bite the bullet and fly back. Even if that means I'm only in America for like 24 hours each time.'cause I get to, you know, decompress with my girlfriend in our own place. And, focus a bit more

Speaker:

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Than sitting in a hotel or someone's house and yeah, it's all right. Like I said, it's my full-time thing. I don't have to worry about any other obligations. Yeah. So I can kind of. Do these stupid things.

Speaker:

Well, I think, you know, you said you're a self-proclaimed psychopath. I think. I think anyone that's gonna choose this career though, and this lifestyle has to be at least a little bit of a psychopath, right? Yeah. Because like, you really gotta be built for this shit whether you're flying from the UK all, all the time or not, but it's like once your career starts to take off and you're playing. One, two, maybe three shows every weekend, even if you're here in the States, like, it's just a lot, to put on the body, to put on the mind, like it's a totally different fucking lifestyle. What do you think it takes to really, besides being a psychopath, what do you wanna say to all the other artists that are out there that are like, they're dreaming of this lifestyle. They want it, you know, you're actually fucking doing it though.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think, is definitely a learning curve, trying to figure out how to stay healthy and sane while doing this. There's a lot of habits you can build that will help you. Not scrolling all the time

Speaker:

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Is a big one for me'cause my brain is already rotted from, uh. One producing all the time, and two, being on flights all the time and not sleeping. So when I am awake, it sounds really corny, but like being present and not, being on your phone and stuff all the time. Especially if you, you know, you have a career in music. You are constantly getting notifications and messages from loads of people.

Speaker:

Totally.

Speaker 2:

And whether they're important or not, it's pretty good to, detach from that as much as you can. Uh, otherwise you will go insane.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

There's that, there's things like, eating a normal amount of meals a day, not eating one meal a day, or zero meals a day.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Uh,

Speaker:

one meal and a bunch of coffee.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. One of the hardest things for me is like going to a gym while out here.'cause I, you know, I get to where I'm staying and then I've gotta figure out. Where the closest gym is, and then figure out if they do like day passes and in the end, and then I gotta pay for an Uber there. And I'm like, to me, that's just really annoying.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I usually just like try and get a habit of what I'm touring is like, of like just doing like I know loads of pushups in my hotel room.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Which actually does make a huge difference of how I feel mentally. But yeah, it's. pretty much like if you, if you aren't doing this and you want to do this, like you're not touring it and you want to be a touring artist, it's as bad as you imagine it would be probably worse.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But it is doable.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you can be happy while doing it. Like I say, all of this, I am happy.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

But I've definitely not been happy.

Speaker:

Yeah. Touring for sure. And well, let's talk about when, you know, when you came to me, you reached out and you're like, I wanna get a coach in my corner. I wanna get some support. Where were you at at that point that had you interested in getting support?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, I saw your episode with Hogan, Ben Hogan, and yeah, I think I just got off the back of. Doing like a deadly run of shows. Uh, just'cause this was like December, I think. Mm-hmm. Last year. I had like multiple shows every weekend in America and I was flying back between all of'em. And then like, I remember going home and getting home on like the 23rd just before Christmas, and then spending Christmas with my families. And then going straight back to America on like boxing Day.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, I think I was definitely struggling then since then, I've learned a lot through for you and through just, you know, adapting

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

To it, which does take time.

Speaker:

Yeah. Well, what wasn't working for you at that time?

Speaker 2:

Um, I think I just wasn't conscious of a lot of things I was doing. Like, I know it's super simple, but like all I would do. It was make music, but then I would pretty much just like rot in hotel rooms.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And like doom scroll.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

For hours.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It was like I was so burnt out that it was like a cycle of I would be burnt out. So I would do that'cause I didn't have the energy to do anything else. And then that would burn me out even more.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, that's a big thing. I think. Me not doing that anymore was a result of just like me maturing.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Or adapting to touring.

Speaker:

Yeah. So what started to shift when, when we started working together? What are some of the things that you started to learn, started to apply?

Speaker 2:

The biggest thing with working with you was, I wouldn't say I'm like a. Jealous person, but I definitely get, uh, very anxious and in my head and threatened by what I think, like people in my field think of me.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And that's the thing we talk about a lot.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you definitely helped me just. Address things like that with people who I thought had like a problem with me when they didn't.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, that's true. We did have a lot of, uh, a lot of clearing conversations.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Right. Yeah.'cause especially, I mean, I, I just recently had some of that myself in my own life where, you know, like, especially like the music industry is a relationships game.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker:

It's like you are working with your team ideally, right? You're working with a manager, with an agent. You're collaborating with other artists. You're playing other, other music out. Like this is such a relationship driven business. And so having some, emotional intelligence and being able to navigate those relationships in a healthy way is really, really important. Mm. Right. And also sometimes win those relationships maybe. There's conflict in them where they start falling apart. It's like, yeah, that's gonna take a toll on us and affect us. So how do we, how do we lean into that? How do we embrace that? How do we fix that and, heal things? Yeah, we had a couple of those to navigate with you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. There was that. And also just, not expecting the worst all the time.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

That was one of the main reasons I started working with you was I'm a very, uh, pessimistic person. Um, still am, but I'm better with it now. And in fact, I'm drastically bare with it. As a result of working with you, I think,

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker 2:

I kind of now just like whatever happens, happens, like for example, this weekend with the show getting evacuated yesterday. Uh, if that happened a year ago, if this whole scenario had happened a year ago, I probably would've like. I've been freaking out today.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Being like, oh, my set's gonna get canceled. It's, it's gonna get canceled. Yeah, I know it is. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, now I'm kind of like, oh, well

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker 2:

whatever happens,

Speaker:

just, just you

Speaker 2:

figure it out.

Speaker:

Hyper fixating on worst case scenarios.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think like working with you really helped with that and also just actually going through a lot of very annoying situations. To the point where I'm like, anything could happen. Whatever happens, we just figure it out. Yeah.'cause it's just, I mean, it's fearing something that hasn't even happened yet.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So,

Speaker:

I mean, that's, that's just, that's anxiety. Yeah. Literally, it, it's, it's so funny too. I mean, I, I teach this, I preach this, I work on it with clients all the time. And like I recently have been struggling with a lot of that myself, where I'm just like, man, I'm just like. Totally focusing on the wrong shit, like focusing on the stuff I'm worried about happening and it's stressing me the fuck out. It's making me feel like I'm dying inside. Right. And I, I just had a big lesson in that recently where it's like, oh wow. Like whatever. Whatever I focus on is what I am giving, life to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I'm feeding it right. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's what we talked about a lot. Yeah,

Speaker:

yeah, yeah. I caught myself in that recently where I was just like, oh, wait. The first step is like, all right, I gotta shift. What is it that I want? I realized I was focusing a lot on problems rather than focusing on vision.

Speaker 2:

Mm,

Speaker:

what is it I want rather than focusing on what I don't want? And it's funny too'cause even in like coming from a long background of, in the personal development space, I've been learning this stuff, studying this stuff for so long. And there's actually this weird trap where focusing on personal development, what you can oftentimes do is focus on. What's wrong and what's not working because like, I wanna fix it, I wanna get better. I'm like, I have a big value of growth, so I wanna learn. I want to grow. But so now my mind is hyperfocused on, well, what's like not perfect?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But then if that's all I'm focusing on all the time, right? I'm actually manifesting more of that rather than focusing on. What is it that I want? Right? Rather than on like, what's not working, what am I unhappy with? Lemme focus on what do I desire, where do I want to go? Who do I want to be? What is working, right? Mm-hmm. A lot of what we do is celebration. Yeah. Right? We start off every call like it's fucking celebrate man. Like what's actually going well? There's a million things that are maybe we can focus on that are not going well, and if we focus on those, then that's all we're gonna see and we're gonna manifest more of that.

Speaker 2:

That, that was a huge thing for me. Probably the main thing that helped with what I was talking about earlier, where I'm not like constantly waiting for things to go wrong. Was just, you know, yeah. Actually getting excited about things rather than getting scared of things. Yeah. That aren't gonna happen.

Speaker:

Totally. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

a funny one was, uh, lost Lands. Yeah, this was a big one.'cause if this, what happened at Lost Lands, how many year ago I would've had like a panic attack. But basically the, the same similar situation to yesterday, there was like a really bad weather morning. Oh yeah. There was like to, there was like tornadoes and stuff mm-hmm. In Ohio. And that the, the problem was wasn't actually the wind, it was the dust from the wind, that you couldn't see. And everyone was breathing in dust. So they evacuated the festival.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The day I played mm, at like 2:00 PM I got very, very drunk the night before. So I wake up insanely hung over. I check my phone and it's like, we're evacuating the festival. I'm like, cool. I've got play today. I walk down to the lobby and there's a sandstorm happening outside, and I'm like, oh man. And then I go, go back upstairs and my room key doesn't work. My stuff's in there. Sweet. So I'm like just in the lobby like, oh, this is hilarious. Like,

Speaker:

especially after last night, I was reminded, that that kind of stuff is gonna happen all the time. Mm-hmm. Right? And so you gotta be prepared for it, but also again, be grounded enough in yourself to have it not let you totally throw you off course. Right? Yeah. Even for myself last night, it was funny'cause I, I brought my girlfriend out and like. After a while, she was getting, you know, impatient, frustrated, you know, she's also barely wearing any clothes out there in her little rave outfit. And I get it. but I also as well, I'm like, oh, there would've been an older version of me that would've been way more, impatient with this. Or, oh, we're stuck in traffic. Right? And it was just this constant practice of like, all right. I'm not in control of any of this, right? Yeah. What am I in control of? And I also can be in control over my emotions. Again, when I am actually emotionally intelligent, when I have been working on this and practicing this. If I'm not, then every little fucking thing can trigger me and throw me off. But if I'm actually doing this type of work, really start to learn like, all right, what am I in control over? Yeah. I'm not in control if the festival gets evacuated or not, right? But I am in control of my reaction to it. It's a hard thing to control, but if we actually take ownership and we take personal responsibility that like no matter what happens, I am always in control of my reaction.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Knowing what you're in control of and what you're not in control of is a. Huge thing that helps me not go insane.

Speaker:

Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, how many fucking curve balls do you get thrown at you all the time with?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Flights shows, traffic, like,

Speaker 2:

yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. It's a lot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. We, um, have definitely had a lot of those this weekend.

Speaker:

Yeah. what are you celebrating right now for us to focus on some of the good shit? What are you excited about? What are you celebrating?

Speaker 2:

Um, well, technically headlining. By accident because of my friends that are famous, but I'm celebrating that.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it's gonna be good. We are debuting a lot of new music and Yeah. We've never done the back three back thing.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I've never actually done a, like back three back.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Ever. So, I'm excited, experience that dynamic with two of my favorite eyes.

Speaker:

Do you guys have that like, planned out pretty well?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Or Yeah. Other than

imagine

Speaker 2:

like you, the whole, the whole thing is

Speaker:

coordinate that

Speaker 2:

very planned.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of, uh, crazy moments.

Speaker:

Yeah. So at what, how far into the set do you take your shirt off and start screaming at everybody?

Speaker 2:

I don't even come out with a shirt anymore.

Speaker:

Okay. That would be totally off brand of you today. Yeah. I'm surprised you even have one on right now actually.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I, I used, so dude, the Shell listing is really. Actually cringe to me, but I have to do it now because, when lockdown happened, obviously no one played a show for a year or whatever. And then I got my first show back and it was in this tiny sweat box about the size of this room.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it was really hot. And I had like all my friends in the booth with me, and we all just started getting Shirley's. And for, for whatever reason after that, like. Yeah. Everyone just asked me to get shirtless all the time on stage. There we

Speaker:

go.

Speaker 2:

It just became a thing.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But it became so much of a thing that it's like now,

Speaker:

now you literally

Speaker 2:

my whole brand.

Speaker:

Yeah. You literally can't put a shirt on.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So, so now if I'm like playing in like freezing cold conditions, like just shirtless,

Speaker:

so do you just come out without, without a shirt on?

Speaker 2:

You don't even, you don't even take

Speaker:

it off.

Speaker 2:

I come out with a hoodie on, but no shirt under it. Just, uh. So it can, I don't know. I can look all mysterious.

Speaker:

I love it. I love it.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes I wear a scarf around my face to look like an, uh, even more mysterious, like a pretentious idiot.

Speaker:

I

Speaker 2:

love it. But it all comes off.

Speaker:

Yeah, I, I'm not gonna lie, I was, I was almost a little self-conscious.'cause uh, we're at a podcast studio here in Austin and, you know, this is one of the rooms where it's like you can kind of book it last minute. You can book it on the weekends. Cool. And I was like, man, it's a little, it's a little off brand for you. I'm like, we got these nice, these nice little fake trees behind us and yeah. It's so, uh, it's so proper. I'm like, what would

Speaker 2:

be on brand?

Speaker:

A black dude? We need, I mean, for both of us. So you know what mean you have these cuts. Oh yeah. I was like, we need some skulls. Yeah. And some fucking black in here. It was, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So what's coming up for you and, and you know, in your career moving forward, what do you, uh, you know, where, where do you go from here? Right? You're touring, you're at this, at this certain level, you're at this certain stage.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

What's next and how do you get there?

Speaker 2:

Um, lots of music is happening. Got some pretty sick big collabs that no one knows about yet I'm dropping like a. I do this every year, but I'm dropping like a kind of mix that has all my own released new stuff in.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Um,

Speaker:

how many songs are, are there?

Speaker 2:

There's usually like between 15 and 20.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So it's like a mini mix? Yeah. It's like, it's like a 15, 20 minute long thing. It's a lot of

Speaker:

music.

Speaker 2:

I try and do one every year. This year I'm definitely really late with it'cause I usually do this in like August, September time. And still not even finished. So I don't even know if it'll be this year, but that is the next thing for me, dropping that and yeah, big songs with sick artists. That's pretty much all it Everest me. That's, that's what I'm in control of.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

so that's what I do. I got a lot of crazy shows planned as well. My calendar's pretty much full until like. June.

Speaker:

Fuck. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Which is, yeah, pretty nuts.

Speaker:

Do you have any plans or desire to move to the States?

Speaker 2:

No.

Speaker:

I imagine most of those shows are probably in the us Yeah. Or are you doing Yeah. Europe also

Speaker 2:

pretty much all of them, except for I think two or three

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Are in us.

Speaker:

Yeah. But you don't wanna move out here. You're fine doing the 10 hour flight.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I don't wanna move out here. If I don't see my family regularly Yeah. I like go insane. So yeah,

Speaker:

for sure.

Speaker 2:

I like being at home.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, all my friends are there. If I was gonna move here though, I would probably move to Austin. Yeah. Or Dallas.

Speaker:

All

Speaker 2:

right. Or maybe Arizona.

Speaker:

Yeah. Austin's dope.

Speaker 2:

What's coming out for you?

Speaker:

Ooh, good question.

Speaker 2:

What are you excited about? Let's flip this.

Speaker:

Ooh. All right.

Speaker 2:

Okay. We're gonna

Speaker:

flip it. You are the host now. You get to coach me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Interview me. Um,

Speaker 2:

don't, don't let me do that.

Speaker:

Yeah. I, um, honestly, I'm not sure I'm kind of figuring that out. I'm trying to figure out next steps of where I want to go, what do I want to do? And, I don't know. You know, I've, I've, obviously, I've been coaching and doing the podcast for a while.

Speaker 2:

Mm.

Speaker:

It's awesome. And I'll be honest that there's a part of me that's like questioning what's next. You know, like what's, what's my highest level of excitement? Yeah. And I'm kind of in a weird space where I don't know what that is right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. How long have you been doing the podcast now?

Speaker:

We did over a hundred episodes, so this is episode probably like 1 0 5 or something. It's been like. Yeah, two years over two years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. And I was very consistent doing every Monday. I'm sorry for you regular listeners that have not been getting an episode every Monday. But yeah, I've just been slowing down a little bit on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely fun to do in person. Like, this is, this is really cool, you know, that, that's cool. But to be honest, like I've been thinking about maybe expanding my coaching to not just be focused on. DJs in, in, in this space like there might just be a bigger game for me to be playing. I mean, maybe it's, maybe it's expanding to just more artists in general. Yeah. I mean, everything Maybe, maybe I start working with some rappers and some fucking, I've worked with a metal band recently. Like, oh really? That was sick. Yeah. shout out Hex date. Fucking love them. Female fronted, metal band. Not, not your crazy death metal shit, you know? But, um, but that was fun to work with four people.'cause it was almost more like marriage counseling.

Speaker 2:

Did you have like what group calls?

Speaker:

Yeah, had all four of'em on the calls. So a lot of it was just working with like, how do you. Work together. I mean, that's a, you're a four person, you know, not only group, but also a business and working together, helping them navigate communication and conversations. That was really fun for me. It was really, it really was like marriage counseling.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So maybe I start coaching metal bands, you know?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, that's a niche. Definitely. Yeah. Coaching the whole band.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a really cool documentary out there, called Some kind of Monster. It was when Metallica put that album out called Some kind of Monster. Yeah. Uh, very early on, right when I started coaching and I had this vision of coaching artists. Uh, I couldn't sleep one night and I just like threw on Netflix randomly, and I watched this documentary and in the middle of it, uh, basically it was when the band was falling apart. We're filming the documentary to go into, um, show them film, like recording their album. But then during that, basically the bass player player quit the band.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

James Hetfield was going to rehab and was all fucked up and so the band was falling apart. So the documentary turned into like. Them and all their drama. And so they hired a coach to come in. Shout out Phil Towel. I've been actually wanting to get him on the podcast for a long time, but he was the first one. I was like, oh, this guy's like Metallica's life coach. Yeah. I was like, that's fucking sick. I was like, I wanna do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Uh, so yeah, you know, I think they're, maybe is a vision there to. Start working with, with Band Dynamics too, and Yeah. I don't know, man. I'm just putting it out. Right. Any bands out there that are listening? If you're in a band, I would love to chat with you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um.'cause it's hard. I mean, imagine, you know, you're doing it on your own, but like, you get to call all of your own shots. There's no band members to fight with. Well, I'm

Speaker 2:

in a band as well.

Speaker:

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I know how it is. That's right.

Speaker:

Okay. Wait, what's your band called?

Speaker 2:

Uh, well I wasn't, I've been in a lot of bands. Yeah. I was in a band called Pine Glass, which is still going, but I had to leave Pine Glass because. I basically had to choose like MDA or Pin Glass. Yeah.'cause they were,'cause Pin glass is like now pretty much as the same, as big as NMDA is.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um,

Speaker:

you were, so you were singing

Speaker 2:

Yeah, with my best friend. Yeah. We, we were both on vocals.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So luckily me leaving didn't mean they had to like, just stop. Yeah. They

Speaker:

still had a singer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was in that band and I'm in a band with the same guys, but it's a different one. And Pin Glass was like a meme.

Speaker:

Uh huh

Speaker 2:

I think that's why it's successful.'cause it's like hilarious.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then we were in like a, basically the serious equivalent, um, and it's a bag called Hounds of War. Yeah. Which is, just like hardcore stuff.

Speaker:

I forgot about that. So are you guys playing shows and

Speaker 2:

Yeah,

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's good fun. It's um, it's great'cause it's a nice break from making dubstep for me.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I get to, you know, when I have like. Burnout or like write as block. I can just, Like write songs for that.

Speaker:

So what are some of the challenges you guys face as a band? There's a different layer of dynamics there.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot.'cause we're all, every member of that band is really busy. I mean, I'm in another country every, every week.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And their own other bands as well. So the hardest thing is finding dates where we're all free. For either shows or like rehearsals or like writing. But me and my best friend, we, we meet up every week and this is another reason, like why I probably wouldn't want to move to the US is'cause like me seeing my friends every week routinely is like such a big thing that keeps me from feeling horrible.

Speaker:

Yeah. I mean, that's something I've been thinking about a lot'cause. Even in Austin, I'm, I'm, I'm surrounded by incredible community. That's why I moved here.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

You know, you can literally throw a rock outside and I'll run into somebody that I know or some kind of cool community event going on. And even with that being said, um, still running my own business, working from home, I still spend a lot of time alone. Mm-hmm. And that is like the biggest recipe for a decline in mental health. Mm-hmm. Is isolation. And especially producers. Where it's you and a laptop and you're locking yourself in a room probably for hours and hours at a time. Yeah. Uh, it's really fucking unhealthy. If you're doing that, you already know. Yeah. You already know that like, isolating yourself is, um, is just a recipe for disaster. So I'm glad to hear like, yeah, you have your friends, you have your family, and it's really important to, to be close to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Producing is just. It is awesome'cause you know, you're creating, but it's actually quite a unique thing to have as like your job because when you are producing you can't like listen to something in the background.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Or like talk to someone while you're doing it. It's like Yeah. Completely isolating. Even if you're in a room full of people, you can't talk while you're doing it So, yeah, it's pretty unique.'cause I, I'm a big fan of like, having stuff on in the background

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Like while I'm doing anything on a computer. And you can't do that while you're producing.

Speaker:

Yeah. And you have a girlfriend also.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker:

Right. That, and you guys live together, don't you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. So it's, and I wanna bring that up because I think there's a lot of artists out there that has have this misbelief that I don't have time for a relationship.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, you definitely do. I mean, this is the thing I'm. Very grateful for her because I'm never home and she's completely chill with it and she, you know, flies out to America sometimes with me. And yeah, we make it work and you can make it work pretty easily. You know, I know people who make that work when they don't even live in the same country as each other. And they're flying out all the time. So.

Speaker:

What helps you make it work?

Speaker 2:

I think it's a, well it's just a realization thing.'cause a lot of people think, a lot of people think it's not gonna work if they, you know, they think they have to like dedicate their whole life to producing all the time. Yeah. You can do that and still have a relationship. Like, dude I produce for like eight hours a day.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then. Once I'm done, I stop thinking about it and I go and spend time with my girlfriend.

Speaker:

Yeah. There's a lot of people that have like corporate jobs that work 10 hours a day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And they still have a marriage and kids. And have a family.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Right. So it's like, why would an artist not be able to do that also?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

All right. Uh, I understand there's obviously more traveling, but uh, yeah, it's, I think what's important is that back to if you think it's not gonna work. Well, it's not gonna work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly. Because

Speaker:

that's what you're focusing on. You're focusing on it not working. So, you know, it's funny too, I think I see this a lot with, um. With women more so than men, where they're oftentimes like, oh, there's like, there's no, there's no good men out there.

Speaker 2:

Mm.

It's

Speaker:

like, well, if that's what you believe, that's what you're going to create. That's what you're gonna manifest you. If that's your belief, you're never gonna find a good man. Yeah. You're never gonna find a good relationship if you don't believe that. You can make a relationship work. Well, that's your belief, and you are going to prove that belief to be true. So it's a back to sort of shifting of like, well, what's the vision? What do you want? If you wanna have a relationship, you wanna have a partner, you wanna have a great career, you wanna like focus on that. You really gotta control your mind and what you're focusing on and also modeling yourself that for people that have it, I used to struggle with this also when I was coming up as a manager in the music industry. I was like, oh my God, like to be a part of this industry. Like you just gotta be like young and single and out every night and like there's no, you know, I didn't see people having the relationship, but I was also just like hanging out with the wrong people and looking at the wrong people. Yeah. And then once I, I'm like, oh, this, this guy's doing it and he's actually super successful and he is got a great, you know, relationship. He's making it work. I'm just modeling myself after the wrong people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's also like we're interested in each, in each other. So like, I'm interested in her life, she's interested in my life. Yeah. And if you are interested in someone, you know, you don't have not enough time for something you are generally interested in, you know?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I think it's. Quite an unhealthy mindset when people think they don't have time for, uh, like any normal thing in life because they're trying to produce constantly.

Speaker:

Yeah. And it, it's like, it's so important though that you do also, like if,

Speaker 2:

yeah,

Speaker:

all you do is make music and focus on your career, like, and you don't have friends or family or relationship or hobbies or like other shit that just like makes you human.

Speaker 2:

Mm.

Speaker:

I think you're going to drive yourself into the fucking ground. Like it's not gonna work.

Speaker 2:

It's also, your work is just not gonna be as good.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

If you are, if you have nothing else going on.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Like if I didn't spend time with my girlfriend every day, I'd probably be a much worse producer. The best things happen when you, when you're not. Doing them.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

If that makes sense. Like all the best song ideas I have are when I'm not bruising.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

So

Speaker:

I'm so curious about how you get song ideas and because it's like a lot of your shit is just like, what do you hear in your head? You're just like, like, because I got an idea for a song I just had in the shower. It goes like. Go,

Speaker 2:

go, go, go. Pretty much

Speaker:

what is going on in your brain when you get these song ideas?

Speaker 2:

Uh, I mean, a lot of it is super sound design oriented. Yeah. So a lot of the time I'm just stimming making bullshit sounds. And then one of them will just, you know, scratch an itch in my brain.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

And then I'll pretty much spam that sound. As many times as possible in lots of different arrangements until I find one that's good.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's kind of throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Speaker:

Mm. Tell me about the scratching the itch of your brain.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's the best way to describe it.'cause yeah, like I said, it's all very sound design

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Oriented. So I will sit there playing with whatever synths. And effects for sometimes hours to not even sometimes get a result. But sometimes it'll just sound exactly how I want it to, which is pretty rare, but that's what we're all in pursuit of, I guess.

Speaker:

Do you hear it in your head first and then you go on like a quest to find it or you just kind of dabble with shit until you get there?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, kind of. The best, the best songs I've made have been a result of me not doing that. That's one thing I've learned in the last year or so is like usually when I have an idea in my head and I try and make it, it never turns out good.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

The best stuff happens usually when I just kind of don't have any expectations. And I just let it happen. That's actually my biggest advice for like everyone who gets writer's block or whoever is to just stop producing with like expectation or making music with expectation.'cause you are gonna probably make something really sick and then get mad that it isn't what you wanted it to be in your head. Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

But

Speaker:

even though it's really sick,

Speaker 2:

even though it's really sick. So like if you do that without the expectation, then you're just gonna make sick stuff.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I know you might not, sometimes I make some. Stuff that no one's ever gonna hear, but

Speaker:

How do you feel when you spend hours on something and then you kind of have nothing to show for it?

Speaker 2:

Horrible. Probably one of the biggest, uh, contributions to the decline of my mental health day to day is when I spend weeks on something and then I've decided, actually I don't like this. Yeah,

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, it's, you, it's all about, you know, accepting it and not having those expectations. But yeah. The biggest, biggest lesson with producing and not going insane is, uh, actually not caring in a way Letting ideas happen naturally. Creativity doesn't respond very well to brute force. That's what I tell everyone.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm. not caring about what,

Speaker 2:

Like I said, going into each session with no expectations or like immediate goals Yeah. For that session. Yeah. Is quite healthy, I think. Obviously the goal is to make something but not be really specific about it, I think is gonna, you're gonna have a much better time.

Speaker:

Yeah. Yeah.'cause the truth is you're always gonna make something.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

If the goal is just to make something, then you can't lose.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes I like to just try and make the worst thing possible. Then there's literally zero pressure and then sometimes I ask and he makes something good.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I could talk about. The creative mind games I played forever.

Speaker:

give us some more, give us some, NMDA wisdom of what to do in the studio.

Speaker 2:

I dunno, sometimes I'll, like, sometimes I'll take my whole discography and basically take every drop I've like ever made and just like pretty much close my eyes and like chop all of them up randomly, just rearrange them all until it's like. A new idea, and then I'll just like try and recreate that idea from scratch.

Speaker:

Huh.

Speaker 2:

After it's been chopped up. Um,

Speaker:

that's a, that's a really cool exercise actually.

Speaker 2:

It can be cool Sometimes it's just doesn't work. But yeah, I do a lot of stupid, stupid stuff.

Speaker:

I know you said, you know, you're not doing any silly TikTok dances when it comes to. Putting yourself out there, obviously having a brand, social media, like what's your thought process around that? Because you do, you do post a lot. You're very active.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So this is gonna sound really corny, but I'm a big believer of, uh, attracting, not chasing, which is something me and you talk about a lot.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

and I think making content for the sake of it makes you look really desperate sometimes. Mm-hmm. So I, I've pretty much got away with my whole career just only posting when I have a release or I've played a sick show and I have footage from it. That's pretty much all I post. Yeah. Like, I don't ever post anything other than releases or show footage anymore. Sometimes like I've post a show flyer, but that's rare.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

if your whole brand looks good and your music sounds good, it's going to turn heads. So that's gonna do more for you than any viral reel.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm. Will do. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Anyone who goes viral, it usually doesn't last. Like, there's not one really anyone I can think of who just blew up suddenly who didn't like then. Disappear suddenly.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I've always just tried to focus on, you know, getting a bit better at music every day. And the result of that is, I think that's, that's honestly like what got me to where I am. Just

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Slow snowball.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, not doing dances.

Speaker:

Well, it's working pretty well for you so far, I'd say.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. Good. Any final words of wisdom for the other artists out there?

Speaker 2:

Um, don't be soft.

Speaker:

What do you mean by that?

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I just tried to say something cool. Don't be soft. Yeah.

Speaker:

Motherfuckers. Stay hard.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Who's gonna carry the boats?

Speaker:

Well, uh, dude, I'm so glad that we could finally meet in person and hang. We've had, I mean, hours and hours of seeing each other on Zoom calls and this has been pretty rad to actually get to fucking Yeah. Hug you and sit down next to you and

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And dive in, man. So thanks for coming through.

Speaker 2:

Likewise. Thanks for having me,

Head Shot

Nik Cherwink

Host