Headliner Mindset

RAVE JESUS - The Rise of Christian EDM

• Nik Cherwink

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In this episode of the Headliner Mindset Podcast, Rave Jesus joins the show for an expansive, honest conversation about faith, creativity, and the deeper spiritual current running through dance music culture.

The discussion traces Rave Jesus’ journey from touring internationally and releasing music on major labels to following an unexpected calling that reshaped both his career and identity. Rather than stepping away from rave culture, the conversation explores how electronic music, community, and worship intersect — and why those worlds aren’t as separate as they’re often made out to be.

Topics include:

  • The spiritual hunger behind rave culture and dance music
  • Creativity as a form of listening, intuition, and surrender
  • Letting go of control, ego, and industry expectations
  • Faith, worship, and authenticity in electronic music
  • Why silence, stillness, and trust are essential for creative flow

The episode also dives into the realities of success, burnout, and reinvention — and how following a deeper calling can lead to a more aligned and sustainable creative life.

Speaker:

Lord, we know you love dance music. We know you love the dance music industry, and so we, we just bless the dance music industry and we thank you that we get to make this amazing music that is filled with massive kick drums and amazing scents and lights and lasers, and sounds like we love all of it. In Jesus name we rave. Amen.

Speaker 2:

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset Podcast. We have a very special episode for y'all today. I'm here in Austin, Texas, alive and in the flesh with my good friend Topher, AKA rave. Jesus.

Speaker:

Hello. Thank you for having me,

Speaker 2:

dude. I am so pumped. We finally. Get to meet.'cause we've known each other for, it's been about the last six months or so. Yep. We, we've been, uh, getting to know each other pretty well, but this is our first time getting to actually hug each other.

Speaker:

Oh no. It's so good to see you in the flesh, dude. You're even more handsome in person. Oh, thank

Speaker 2:

you. Thank you. You know I did. I shaved

Speaker:

You look good, bro.

Speaker 2:

I shaved, I took the, uh, facial hair off, so

Speaker:

I did not

Speaker 2:

got a, got a few years

Speaker:

back. Yeah. Yeah. You look good.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, man.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

yeah. Uh, well man, so you're here because you have a show.

Speaker:

Tonight

Speaker 2:

touring.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

Um, your shows are not like normal Rave EDM shows, though.

Speaker:

They are. And they aren't. Yeah. There's a little bit of a difference

Speaker 2:

for sure. You're doing something a little bit different, bringing in. Worship music Yep. As a Christian artist, but still very much a real DJ and music producer. Mm-hmm. And, um, I, I want to just start there. The show tonight, I'm so excited to come out. How is this gonna be different from a normal, you know, a normal club show?

Speaker:

Yeah. But one, it's early doors open at six. I love that. I love that. And it ends at nine.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker:

And you know. I love that I can get to sleep by 11 o'clock and I played a show that night. It's incredible.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Uh, but yeah, it's different in the sense of, uh, the heart behind everything tonight is to point people to Jesus. And I love, I mean, I've been going to raves for 25 years now. I love dance music. It's like, it just ingrained into my DNA And so there's so much that, um. I love about just the, the whole show experience, the lights, the lasers, the huge sound systems. I love all of that. So that's all still there. Yeah. But it's just a way, um, I dunno if cleaner is the right word, but like, no one's doing drugs.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, you know, most people aren't drinking. There's a lot of families that come, there's a huge age disparity of, you could have a 3-year-old and have a 70-year-old at the show.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, but it, it just, it's just such a joyful and light atmosphere and so it isn't about being seen. It, there's none of like the games where the, the funny things of when you go out the shows, like getting in the booth, like none of that exists. Everyone's there for a specific reason and it's to have an unbelievable time dancing and raving. And worshiping.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And so it just naturally feels a little bit different in the room than, you know, other, you know, the 2:00 AM Yeah. At whatever club feel.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. So, as you guys can tell, this is gonna be a a, a really, yeah. Potentially different kind of conversation than I've had with most of the artists and, and industry players on the Headliner Mindset podcast. Um, I'm also just personally really excited to have this conversation as well, and to kind of open up and share about my journey, you know. I've shared a lot about what I call the woowoo side, and I think that's what, like

Speaker:

whenever I've watched your episodes came from like a year ago and you're like, I love the woo woo stuff. I love the woo woo. Knowing you now. I'm like, oh, you were? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and, and I think a lot of my, you know, audience loves that as well. Yeah. Because that's kind of what got me into. Coaching and Yep. The part of music that I've loved is the creative side, and back when I worked at Icon Collective, you know, I taught one of the courses there was the Art of Flow. Mm-hmm. And I always describe that class. It's a, it's a class that we had about exploring creativity, how to be creative, how to tap into your flow, how to listen to your intuition, listen to your authentic voice, which as an artist, it's so key. It's so important to do. And that's why I think so many of the artists that came out of Icon were very successful.

Speaker:

You guys had.

Speaker 2:

Yeah,

Speaker:

I was talking to someone today, like the run of artists that you guys had come from. That place is wild. It's

Speaker 2:

insane. And what we were doing is we were teaching'em how to get tapped in, how to get plugged into the source, the source of authentic creativity. And when I taught that class, I was the the first one to take over. I always described it as an intersection between psychology, philosophy, and spirituality.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

Me personally, I really leaned on the spirituality side. Yeah. I had, I had, you know, I had no problem talk. You know, there's words that we use, we say maybe the universe.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

We say source, you know? Yeah. Even just the word God makes some people a little uncomfortable. I've gotten a bit more comfortable using it. But I'd re I, I realized recently, I'm like, man, the, the whole reason I got into this shit was for the spiritual side of it. Yeah. You know, a lot of my coaching recently has become, you know, over the years, and especially with the podcast over the last two years, it's become very business heavy. Like, how do I build my Instagram following, how do I do this? And for me, my philosophy has always been like, if you, if you're not tapped into your authentic source of creativity, then. What are you making in the first place? Your marketing strategy doesn't matter. Um, so I'm just excited to, you know, my, my spiritual journey has continued to progress. Yeah. And especially over these last two years. And it has Yeah. Led me to getting baptized. Yeah. And, you know, early this year, and that's where we connected. That's how we connected. You saw me getting baptized and we're like, oh, what's up?

Speaker:

It's so funny because I somehow. I mean, I, I, I love watching podcasts'cause I'm always just trying to learn from other artists or people in the industry, like what they're doing, what they're hearing, what they're seeing. And so I'm always listening and you came up on my feed and, and I don't remember which was the first artist you were interviewing that I watched, but I was like, oh, this is actually really cool. And then there were more and more clips and I was like, I'm gonna follow him. And then it was like a week later you got back. I was like, yo bro.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. What's up? This is so cool. I wish you could Wishing the

Speaker 2:

dms.

Speaker:

Yeah. And uh, so I just love the journey of that, but. It's, it's been cool to see you, obviously. I didn't know you until, what, six months ago about? Yeah. But it's been cool to see just even the six months, like the growth that you've had as a person and you just stepping into, you know, yeah. Just what God has for you right now and, um, it's just been an honor to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Encourage you along the way so far. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Thank you brother. I'm, I'm, I'm excited to share more of my story and journey, but before I do, I, I, I want to jump into yours, uh, because you had a, a pretty successful background already in the industry, um, before you were doing Rave Jesus. Yep. Right. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your experience before you started this project and what you were doing.

Speaker:

Yeah, so I'll try and do a short-ish summary of kind of the rundown, but I started DJing. Uh, in 99 for Christmas, my birthday, I got my first pair of turntables and then a couple years later fell in love with dance music. Um, and just with DJ in my basement. And I, you know, this is only vinyl records back then. Yeah. Um, and then a few years later it was just a conversation of if I ever want to do this seriously, I should produce music. And so I started to learn how to produce and. In 2006 did a bootleg remix of snow patrols chasing cars with this guy named Blake Gerald. And it exploded like DJs were and their managers were arguing backstage at festivals like who was gonna play it type thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Like, and that opened the door to get connected to Armon and Tiesto and very co and Paul Band. Like all like the in Oak and Fold, like they were like the premier guys back then. And. Yeah. And then TSO signed a bunch of my records to his, A label back then was called Black Hole.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Did some shows with, he asked me to come do some shows with him and then in 2010, moved to England, wrote a bunch of new music, uh, signed to Ultra stuff, started to build 2012, put out a record called Bro Hammer. Skrillex picks it up. It kind of goes nuts. And then I'm touring all around the US in 2013, um, was signed to AM only at the time.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker:

Matt Meyer, shout out.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

He's funny'cause he is now working on the rave Jesus project 15 years later, which is so crazy. Let's go. Is he your, your He's one of, he's one of the agents on the team. It's not 15, it's like what, 13 years now. Love that. It's funny how that happens. Um, yeah. And then, you know, was touring, playing a bunch, opened up from Morgan Page on his 3D tour that he did, which back then it was like a groundbreaking tour with the 3D glasses and the. The LED wall, we stuff would to pop out. Yeah. And so opened up for him on, on one of the legs of that and then started an, like, started writing some housing music.'cause that was in the peak of like banging EDM where it's like big builds, big drops. That's it. The golden era. And I was like, I mean, there, there were some bangers from back then. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then I, I started writing some housey stuff and started this new product at the time that was called King Arthur. I'd uploaded a song to SoundCloud. And Don Diablo hears it, and this is when he was absolutely exploding, was like the hottest thing. Mm-hmm. It was like the new, like up and coming like superstar. And so he had just started his record label Hexagon. I was the first artist besides Don to release on the label.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

That song pops off the next single pops off within a year. I'm at Tomorrow Land within two years of the first ever single being out. I'm playing the main stage at Tomorrow Land. I'm playing all over the world. And you know, it's like, it was a very quick ascension because it was one of those. Write songs on the right label at the right time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And that sound was huge. And yeah. And then I signed a deal with Republic in 2018, and that was such a learning experience, to say the least.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Grateful for the opportunity, but it, it wasn't very fruitful. Um, but learned a ton. And then after that started my own record label underneath Hexagon. So connected back up with Don. Started to bring the Kingdom records, which was like the housey version of Hexagon.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Um,'cause that, that was like the more, you know, future house vibe for his stuff. But then it was like proper house music for bring the Kingdom and then yeah. COVID hits everything starts to change.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Um, I guess I forgot in 2018. I had felt I was a Christian. I've been a Christian the whole time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But I never made Christian music. It was what I would call like kingdom music, where I'd write it from the place of my relationship with the Lord, but never, it was never branded as anything Christian.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, but in 2018 I started a prayer call with two friends where every week we'd get on. I was like, we're gonna just pray for the industry for an hour every week. How do we love the people? How do we bless this industry? How do we see God move?'cause we know he cares about dance music. How can we serve and love this industry? And so, you know, I, after a couple years I had just called it the Rave Jesus call.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And it was just a prayer call for basically five years in 2020, opened it up to the public in January. Well then two months later, the whole world shuts down.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

All these people from the industry are hopping on and it's cool seeing people encounter God, get to know about him, you know, encourage in their faith, whatever it was, it was just awesome and special. And then it was, Hey, let's. Try a couple events.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Braided like this.

Speaker 2:

And be, before we get there. Were you, how were you feeling when you were having success in the sort of mainstream industry? You know, you were, you were a Christian, but it wasn't really, you know, it wasn't part of your brand at that point.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um, were you still. Kind of excited about the scene and the trajectory and where things were going before COVID hit and kind of stopped at all? Or was there, was there ever like kind of a wrestle?

Speaker:

I mean, there's always a wrestle until you get to like, I think, I mean, I think there's always a wrestle no matter what. Even my friends that are ma, you know, headlining festivals, they're always like wrestling with, you know, what's next? You know, am I gonna fall off? Whatever it is. Everyone's always, there's this thing of artists where we, if you're always creating, you're always. Wanting to see new things happen.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Um, and so, I mean, it was incredible. I had, I had a, a, a checklist of a few things that were like my dreams to do as an artist. And in 2017, all of them happened. 2017 and 2018, they all happened. And afterwards the Lord was like, Hey, that was a good list, huh?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I was like, yeah. And he was like, cool. Well, when you want to do some other things that I have for you, like yeah. That's a bigger list. Like let me know. Yeah,

Speaker 2:

yeah.

Speaker:

And I was like, oh, okay. I get this. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I got to do the things that I wanted to do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And they were great. I mean, it is a dream, you know? You dream playing one, just playing Tomorrowland.

Speaker 2:

Tomorrowland. Yeah.

Speaker:

Getting to play in 2016, I headlined the smallest stage, like the up and comers.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And then in 2017 playing the main stage, like, geez yeah, this is crazy. And so getting to do those things, it was incredible. But. The whole thing with that whole era was like, it was successful and I'm playing shows around the world and having, I mean, hundreds of millions of streams like, but it never felt like it went to the place of like, this is gonna last a really long time.

Speaker 2:

Mm.

Speaker:

You know?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You're kind of just like keeping your head above water and, and I

Speaker:

mean, it was better than the keeping above water.'cause like it wasn't, it was, it was like there was real movement.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And real things are happening, but it was never that level where it gets into like. Oh, this is just gonna naturally have momentum for years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Because you there, there's definitely like a, a level that certain artists get to and you're like, oh, you could not put out another song for a long time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And you're good. And you're fine.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker:

It was never at that level. And so that's

Speaker 2:

what I mean, like, you gotta, you gotta keep paddling

Speaker:

totally.

Speaker 2:

Like you're not just Yeah. Just chilling. Like, you gotta keep

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Keep going. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker:

So it, it was, it was really great.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But it never got to that like, yeah. Oh, this is going to the moon level.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Okay. And then COVID hit. Yeah. And stopped everything.

Speaker:

I mean, everything.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You mean the last thing anyone cares about is, well, not anyone. People cared, but governments, the last thing they cared about was let's get people in night clubs.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You know?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker:

So, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And so you, you had started just this ba basically weekly or biweekly kind of prayer call.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

That, uh, then during COVID you started, it just kind of opened up to the public and, and had people start joining?

Speaker:

Well, I opened it up in January'cause it was weird because I just felt this like stirring from the Lord of. Hey, you need to invite everybody to this call. And I'm like, I like that. It's just a close-knit group. And he was like, no, this needs to be everybody.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And so I'm like, okay. And I announced it and then I'm like, two months later I'm like, ah, yeah, you knew COVID was coming. Yeah. You knew what was gonna happen.

Speaker 2:

Let let, let me ask you on that, when, I'm gonna go a little deeper into this. When, when you say, you ask the Lord

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right. What.'cause I, I'm realizing now as, as I'm kind of looking at my life, I'm like, damn. How, how did I get here? Like, my journey has been so weird and interesting and, um, that I've always had, I think just this intuition, I just call it intuition. Just a feeling.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Like a knowing. It's just like the feeling of when I graduated college and I started at a financial advising firm, and this little voice was like. Nah. Fuck that. You should go walk in and quit your job right now and move to la Chase your dream. Yeah. Work in the music, because they're like, what? That's crazy. Yeah. But I've always trusted that voice and it's like, now I know that that's the voice of God. I didn't have a relationship with God. Yep. I didn't call it that. Yep. You know? Um, but I think we all have that, that access, whether we call it, I don't know your intuition, like now for me, I'll, I'll share more about this later of how I access that. Yeah. But I guess I'm curious for you, how do you. Talk to God, how do you listen to that voice and, and that, that part of you?

Speaker:

Yeah, I mean, I just think, I think everybody, I mean, everyone has the ability to talk to God and hear from him. Like he made, we're made in his image and he wants to have a relationship with us. So I think he's always chatting. It's just a matter of like, are we willing to listen and, and open to listen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And so. Obviously the, you know, you, you learn almost through trial and error sometimes. Like, I feel like this is God and you try something and like, oh, actually no, looking back on it, that was maybe more me or, or,

Speaker 2:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Um, but for me, I'll, I'll get a lot of like thoughts or these like real strong, like gut, like, oof. Then I'm like, this isn't me.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Or like, I'll say something like, whoa, that wasn't me. That sounded like. You know, like, I didn't think about that before it came outta my mouth.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um,

Speaker 2:

yeah, it's

Speaker:

coming, but I'll get a lot of thoughts and I, and I, I, I, I'll just try and always have open conversation with the Lord, like I'm hanging out with my kids. I'll just be like, oh God. Like, how you doing today? Yeah. Like, this is, we're all a family. We're hanging out, like, and or when I'm driving, when I'm working out, I'm always trying to just be open of like, Hey. I know you care and I know you want to share your heart with me. Like I want to be as open to that as I possibly can.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And my whole, it, it just, it, I try not to get in the way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You know?'cause we have our own desires and our own dreams and our own things and it's none, none of those are necessarily bad. But if they get in the way of actually what God's trying to say, like that, those dreams aren't more important than hearing his voice to me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And so it's always keeping that in check. And I think the more. It's like a radio frequency. If you're searching for it, you can find it.

Speaker 2:

Totally, totally. And, and that's where I kind of tie it all into. A lot of my sort of, I guess, philosophy around creativity, which is where all this began for me when I was, you know, teaching this course back in the day. But in so much of the coaching that I've done, so much of what I've talked about on the podcast is this idea that we are vessels.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

Right. As an artist, especially, you are a vessel for creative energy. You yourself are creative energy, you are physically manifested. By your mother and father coming together and through the process of procreation. Yep. They created you. So we are creation. We are a creation. We are creative energy. And

Speaker:

I mean on that, and I think people forget this sometimes, like the first way that God shows up in the Bible. Is as a creator.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

And we're made in his image. And so it's like, no, like I'm not creative. Like No, you are,

Speaker 2:

you are.

Speaker:

Everybody is creative.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker:

But I think people are like, people forget that side of Yeah. Of it all. I'm like, no, it's actually really, really, really important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's inherent. It's inherent. It's who you are, we're creating all the time, whether we're conscious of it or not. You know, we're creating our life moment to moment, every decision that we make. And as an artist, it can be so easy to be influenced. You know, as we might say, influenced by the world or just influenced by outside outsiders, outside influences. All right? And the best artists are the ones that know how to turn within that are like, let me listen to myself, to my voice, to my taste. And what that requires is. Silence and stillness, and I think this is one of the biggest challenges that artists are facing these days is now we're living in a world that is so busy and so noisy and there's so much social media and so much pressure to get on content. So much dopamine addiction on, bro. So it's crazy like when do you have time as an artist to. To be authentically creative, right? Because it's so easy to get caught up in like, I'm, well, I'm listening to what everybody else is making, what they're saying, what they're doing, and I'm just now trying to recreate that, which you end up not making great stuff, really just being a copycat at all. The whole artistic journey then just becomes just very different than when you really look at like the greats.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know, they were paving their own path and it's because they have access. To something else, right? They have access to now what I would just call God, you know, but whether that's their, their, uh, their own internal voice, their intuition, like you said, it's the radio frequency. Yeah. It's like I'm tuned in and, um, just a, uh, something that I've been doing. I, I'm a huge fan of the Artist's Way. I dunno if you've ever went through that book. Haven't. It's a haven't, 12 haven't. It's a 12 week workbook that is all about, um. Yeah, she has, you do morning pages, basically every day. Cool. So it's like, she's like, this is the way you talk to God. Just sit, sit down and open up your notebook. Yeah. And write three pages. And I've been preaching that and I have my clients do it all the time. And it's a great way to just tap into flow, tap into that voice. Uh, what I've been doing lately is I'm getting up at five in the morning. I've been taking, walking with like a little ruck, like a little 20 pound, you know, weight vest. And I just take a, like a mile long walk in the woods by my house. But now I'm talking out loud. Yeah. This is the new morning pages for me. So I'm just giving this to all you guys, all you artists out there.

Speaker:

That's good.

Speaker 2:

Create some space and create some stillness in your life. Whether you want to call it God, the universe, I don't, I don't care what you call it, but listen to that voice.'cause that's where. Your magic is Mm. That's where your highest form of creativity is. Your highest frequency is, especially in this, this oversaturated, very busy world that we're living in. And, and now, you know, AI is just, you know, regurgitating, you know, nonsense. It's like, yo, we, you gotta access that. And now for me, I know that that is straight up me talking to God. Yeah. The way I'm doing it now is like, I'm doing it out loud though. I'm like, I'll literally just walk and be like. So what's up? Good. What's going on? Like what you That's great. And, and, and now the, the portal has never been stronger. Now I'm just like, all the answers, all the clarity, everything is, is, is there, so just talking about downloads. Yeah. Talking about intuitive hits, you know, we gotta create this space. Um, it doesn't have to be at 5:00 AM in the woods by yourself, but that's a, I'm it's a powerful, but you're,

Speaker:

but you're, you're, you're, you're purposely like creating an environment for. God to show up. Yeah. Like you're giving him space to to, to move and do his thing. Yeah. Like that's, I think that's super cool. And I think for, you know, artists, especially in today's world where like there's just so much going on and most of it has nothing to do with the actual creative process. Um, you know, how you steward your day to day life

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Makes a big impact on the results that you're gonna get outta everything. And so are you creating space to. Sit and create. Are you creating space to just get your mind away from things and just whatever it is, like it, it will, it will make a huge, huge difference.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. And so you got, you got some intuitive downloads, you got some, some commands that you listened to. So let's pick up on the on, on the story what happened, uh, around COVID as you were doing these calls and, and, and started like listening to that voice and that calling more.

Speaker:

Yeah, I mean, the calls were awesome and then. You know, it was just special.'cause you have people all over the world hopping on

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And it's going on. And then, you know, as there's still no shows. I was living in Amsterdam at the time.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And so it was locked down pretty hard. Um, there's nothing going on. Yeah. And so there's no hope of fuck shows or anything. Anytime, anytime soon. Um, yeah. And I, there's a lot of me that just had to die.

Speaker 2:

Hmm.

Speaker:

And this is, this is like just the whole journey of rape Jesus. Like when it, for it to become where it's at now, like was really hard for me because I knew how to build things in dance music. I'd done it on multiple projects at high levels. And there are certain things that kind work and like if you can, you gotta make great music. Like there's other things you can do, like to help build a, build a career and a project. I had done it multiple times and done it very well, and I was like, cool, I know how to do this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And with this project, everything had to die.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And so COVID was the beginning of that process of like having to almost unlearn

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Everything. And so it was beautiful and painful, uh, of just going, I'm like, God, this is you. Or I. Bat shit crazy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And that's

Speaker:

where it's one, it's, it's one of, it's one or the other.

Speaker 2:

And that's where faith comes in.

Speaker:

Yeah. Like there's no like middle ground of, of like, ah, I don't know. Like, it's like, it's like one extreme or the other. And so it, yeah. You know, and you know when the Lord's like, Hey, I want you to do this writing camp and invite these people, and I want this to be the focus. It's like, okay, well I guess we'll try this. Yeah. And then we do it and you're like, oh

Speaker 2:

yeah,

Speaker:

this music's fire. And then it's,

Speaker 2:

yeah.

Speaker:

Try these, a couple events like this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

And I'm like, this sounds so dumb. Like, like there's nothing in me that wants to do like worship raves. I just love raves. Like, yeah. And, and Lord was like, try it, trust me. And I remember it happened in Seattle. I played, you know, a normal show, like it was like a King Topher show on the Friday. And then on the Saturday we did like a worship night, a worship rave, and I'm on the flight home on Sunday from Seattle and I'm just like. Oh, geez. Why was the worship rave so much more fun?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. Uh, oh. And then I called my friend in LA and I tell him, and he runs a church down there and it's like, I think LA needs to be next because if this, if this can't work in la I don't think it'll work anywhere. Like if it, if this can work in LA there's hope for this thing to be a thing.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah.

Speaker:

And we, we, he, we do it, we announced the show and within eight hours all the tickets are gone. You're like, okay,

Speaker 2:

dang.

Speaker:

Maybe this is a thing and the show happens, you're like, oh, this is actually really cool. What's going on in the room?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And, and then it turned into, then the Lord's saying, okay, now all the music is gonna be branded as rave Jesus.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Like it's, and and it's gonna be blatantly

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Branded as like,

Speaker 2:

doesn't get more blatant than rave. Jesus.

Speaker:

I mean, yeah. And, and, and it's gonna blatantly be. Yeah. Shared as like, Hey, this is like Christian dance music. Yeah. And worship dance music. And,

Speaker 2:

and did you have, did you have resistance to that or you

Speaker:

just like Oh, insane amount because I, when I was growing up, like I was just embarrassed by Christian creativity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. It

Speaker:

was always like a bad knockoff version of whatever was popular. Yeah. And so I'm like, I don't want, I don't want to be associated with that. I wanna be associated with great art and great music, and. I have it be honoring to the Lord, but like I still care about the quality and the, and, and the excellence of it all. And so there was so much of me in the whole thing that like I had to get over.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Hey, we're not in that place anymore.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker:

This isn't 20, you know, 2010 or 2005 when like art from Christians was very different.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Now it's incredible.

Speaker 2:

That was dope

Speaker:

and it's insane. And, um, we can get a whole nother conversation about that, but it, it, yeah, just a lot had to die and I had to, I basically had to come to grips. I, I remember I vividly had a conversation with the Lord. I was driving home, playing pickleball, and I'm like, I'm cussing him out because I'm like, I don't wanna do this. This just sounds so dumb. I'm so real with the Lord. Like,

Speaker 2:

yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

I keep it real.'cause he's like, Hey, he is, he already knows what I'm thinking anyway, so I was like, might, might as well,

Speaker 2:

might as

Speaker:

well be real about it.

Speaker 2:

Let, let's just put that in there for anybody that's new to praying. Yeah. Because I am, I'm still relatively new. Yeah. And it's like, you know, you don't gotta be sit, you know, you have the image, you're like, I'm gonna sit down at my bed. Oh yeah. Put my hands in. Like I've, mine is like, what's up dude? What's

Speaker:

going on? You know, just like it

Speaker 2:

talk

Speaker:

like

Speaker 2:

a normal person.

Speaker:

And I remember just saying, I think this is so dumb because all the people that I get to go love and have conversations with and pray for, like I played so many shows in China. Mm-hmm. And you get to pray for people in the green room, I've never heard of Jesus before.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And you're like. If we brand this as a Christian project, all that's gonna go away. All the people that would never go to church or have been really hurt by the church and want nothing to do with that. Like, yeah. Oh, is this, is like the ability to go love and have relationship with'em, is that gonna go away? Because if it does, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah,

Speaker:

that's, I, I care more about those people than a project being branded a certain way. And the Lord was like, Hey, I'm their savior, not you. And I was like. Yep. Yep, that's right. Yep. You're right. And, and, and, and, and, and, and he was like, you have to trust me.

Speaker 2:

Oh.

Speaker:

And then he laid out, he showed me a few things of like what this journey was gonna look like.

Speaker 2:

Mm.

Speaker:

And, and he said, I'm gonna give you a couple days. Um, I'm asking you, but if you don't wanna do it, I will find somebody else because I want to do this on the earth.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker:

And I was like, okay. And that, that moment you're like. It's kind of humbling when the Lord's like, Hey, yeah, I'm asking you, but whether you choose to do this or not, this is going to happen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It sounds, sounds like you got really clear instructions and layers to it. You know, like your conversations with God sound very uh, very detailed.

Speaker:

I mean, he showed me very, he showed me very specific things of, of how it was gonna go and like certain things were gonna happen in 2027.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker:

Um, and, and just the journey and like everything's.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Tracking. I mean,'cause he, this is this whole, like, when people talk to me about rave Jesus, like how do you feel? I'm like, well, I, it's great, but like this was not my idea.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I didn't wanna do this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

If it were literally just up to me in my own personal thoughts and like things Yeah. If it wasn't the Lord being so clear with me, I would've just said, no.

Speaker 2:

That's how it works, man. I think there's, there's so many great pieces to unpack from what you just shared and, and I resonate a lot with that.'cause I'm like. I didn't decide. I didn't decide I wanna be a life coach for DJs.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know, I wasn't like sitting there like, oh, what do I wanna be when I grow up? And like plan that out. It was like this continuous process of having an intuitive feeling. Hearing the voice. Hearing the calling.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right. The call to adventure of the hero's journey. Being really unclear about it and unsure about it. Yeah. But ultimately having courage and having faith and being like, all right, I don't know what this is gonna look like. And, and I think that that's how God works is like, I'm gonna give you just the next step.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I'm not gonna give you the whole thing that would take all the fun out of it. I'm give, I'm gonna give

Speaker:

you the next step.

Speaker 2:

You

Speaker:

know? Yeah. Sometimes he will and sometimes he won't.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, but he, and the thing is, is like he cares way less about. Like the end result is, is he cares way more about the journey of like, are we gonna do this together?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How's your heart and the, and how are you navigating all of this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker:

That's what he cares about. Like those are the wins for him at the end of the day.

Speaker 2:

And, and I think a lot of it is, are you going to trust me?

Speaker:

Well, that, I mean, that's

Speaker 2:

are

Speaker:

there you go

Speaker 2:

have faith. It's like, because, you know, it's

like,

Speaker:

do you believe I am who I say I am? Yeah. And you're like, well,

Speaker 2:

you see those, you see those memes where it's like, oh, you know, like. Your plans.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

and it'd be like something really small and they'd be like, God's plans. And it's just like some massive behind them and it's just like trusting that like, okay, there's a reason. That I have this intuitive call, this intuitive nudge that there's this feeling here and I'm just gonna trust it. Yeah. The more you trust it, the more you start to kind of exercise that muscle and the less resistance there is to it, and the deeper that bridge and that relationship becomes. Yep. And it's just like, oh, that's gonna lead you to some really cool shit. And, and I think that's a, that's a hard thing for a lot of artists to, to, to deal with. You know, I think back to achy, my favorite artist, I use him as an example all the time where he was like. I'm gonna come out to Ultra, I'm gonna start bringing country music, you know, into it. But it was like something was telling him to do that wild, you know, something in his, that dude

Speaker:

was so gifted,

Speaker 2:

anointed. He was so plugged in, right? And it's just like, all right, I'm gonna come and bring out a bunch of banjos in the middle of ultra, like, absolutely insane. But it's those artists that are like. You know, it's not even like I have a vision. It's like there there is a vision that has been God has given me.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna trust it. Yep. I'm gonna surrender to it. I'm going to obey. It really is a process of surrendering rather than steering the ship of like, all right, what do I wanna wear? I'm going, it's like, no, let me surrender to this, to this amazing, you know, fire hose of creativity that's available to us. But it oftentimes is gonna look. Different than what you might have planned for yourself. And that's the hard thing. That's where like literally you gotta have faith.

Speaker:

Yeah. And, and it's, it's so humbling to have to like almost surrender. Yeah. Like, I've got all these dreams, these desires, these hopes, da da da.

Yeah.

Speaker:

Am I willing to give'em over the Lord and say, I'm actually gonna trust you with these.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I want to hear what you have to say.'cause that's actually more important.'cause like that was just part of it for me of. Oh, I'll never play tomorrow land again with this project. I'll never play in China. I'll never play in Pakistan again. I'll never play in these places or see these people or you know, this is, at least these are the things that I thought these were my fears of. Like, this is, this is gonna end all the stuff that I've loved and enjoyed about dance music, and boy was I wrong.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Because it's been the complete opposite of all of that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And people have been so welcoming and open, I think, because there's a history of. Loving this industry and being a part of it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's not some outsider coming in with like, I'm just trying to jock your culture and build this thing.

Speaker 2:

Totally, dude.

Speaker:

And so I think that's actually the kindness of the Lord to like have built the history and a resume of like, yeah, this is justified. It's legit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You know, and then this is just an extension.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, but it's humbling to go, all right, Lord, like I'm willing to take all these dreams and desires I still have as an artist and say. I'm gonna put'em at your feet. And I say, my relationship with you is more important than these, and I trust that you have good things for this project that you want to do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. Well that, and that's what I love about you and your story is like you have just a legit background in the scene and in rave culture. You know,

Speaker:

I freaking love dance music. Yeah. Like it. I love it. Like, I don't know why the first time I heard Army Van Buren communication. Ooh. The first time that was,

Speaker 2:

yeah.

Speaker:

I heard that song on and it was like this, it was like the whole world stood still.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I was like, this

Speaker 2:

Yeah, dude,

Speaker:

whatever this is like, this is a part of me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I don't know why. Yeah. But that was it. And that was the beginning of it all. And like I, and so my heart, even with this, this project, like, yes, it's worship, dance, music, it's Christian raves. Like my heart is I wanna honor dance music and dance music culture because there's so much about it that I love. So I'm not trying to like make it some knockoff version. It's like, no, like this is, I love, and funny enough, I was having a conversation with, with my friend when I was driving in about how this is might trigger some people. I go, weirdly, these raves now feel more like OG raves from like the two thousands.

Speaker 2:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Where everybody comes and they're so full of life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And everyone's hugging each other and excited to meet people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And community. And there's this joy and no one's there. Like it's, Hey, all are welcome, come as you are. But like, you know what this is, but like, come as you are like there and, and someone much dance music has gotten away from that. And, and that's okay. Things grow and evolve and change. But I weirdly like. These Christian raves feel like the raves that I used to sneak out and go to Mm. I mean, there's no drugs at them, but like the, the culture and the feel in the room of like,

Speaker 2:

yeah,

Speaker:

everyone's so excited that you're there and you just wanna dance and celebrate. And it's like, wow, this is weird that Christians have like this og rave spirit right now.

Speaker 2:

Well, that, that's the thing. And, and, and let's, let's get into, we gotta

Speaker:

get to you too, the

Speaker 2:

rave scene. Yeah. Well that's where it starts with me as well, is hearing. Armand Van Buren hearing TTO back in 2008 or something. And I was a metalhead, you know, but all of a sudden I was like, the, the melodies of these songs are really cool. And I always loved those

Speaker:

super sauce

Speaker 2:

sense. You, bro. I loved They

Speaker:

get You.

Speaker 2:

I always loved really melodic, intricate metal, and there was just this great crossover to trans music. Um, and I was just thinking about this, this, this morning on my walk. I was like, man, it's like the music is, it's like. Yeah. That's God's language. Mm. You know, like the music that we have all felt that, where it's like, it just fills our heart. It fills our soul, it makes us feel something. It's what we would call, you know, feeling the Holy Spirit. Mm. Right. And it's just a way that I think God can really communicate with us and that's why we love it, you know? And so, you know, the rave scene, there's so many aspects to it that are. Just so beautiful and so amazing and, and first and foremost, it's the music.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right. Um, you know, I also, I was like a raver. I was going and, you know, we were popping ecstasy pills and like having that, like what felt like this kind of, you know. Taste of heaven in a way of just like, oh my God, like this bliss, this euphoria. There's this feeling that is almost like I've been searching for this feeling my whole life. You know, you have the music, you have the drugs, and you have the people, the culture at that time, which was peace, love, unity, and respect. You know, a little bit, a little bit of his has died, but, uh. To me, it cracked me open. Yeah. You know, before that I was kind of like a hard partying, like metalhead. Yeah. I was just like binge drinking, you know, ca came from playing rugby and being in a frat in college. I was just, I was a party animal. Yeah. You know, I was just this big jack, you know, rugby, playing beer, drinking party animal, and then going to the rave scene. All of a sudden I'm telling my friends I love them.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I'm hugging people and I'm meeting stranger, like, oh my God. And, and, and that's kind of almost like this vision of. What Heaven could be like.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

right.

Speaker:

I always say this to people'cause especially Christians, because they get really triggered by, well, some people get really triggered by the idea of like festivals and raves and, and all this. And I, I explained to them, I'm like, when I was at Tomorrow land, I kept thinking, oh, this is a glimpse of what heaven is gonna be like. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, you have basically every nation on the earth there. Yeah. Celebrating and they're, they're worshiping the DJ on stage. Um, and people are looking for a supernatural encounter. And that's why they take drugs. Like, totally like they're doing what they're wired to do. I think it's a little bit misdirected.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But I understand the intent because we are wired for a supernatural encounter with God, and, and people are wired. They want to experience a supernatural and they want to worship and they want to worship in community and, and all these things. And I'm like. Oh, the intent.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Is there, like, they're doing what they're wired to do. I would love to be like, Hey, this is, I think this is the healthiest way to do it over here. Yeah, yeah. But I understand. And so I, people are like, aren't you offended? I go, I'm not offended. I understand. I think it's misguided, but I'm, I'm not offended and I'm not gonna like yell at all these people. I'm like, what I want to do is nudge them a little bit in the right direction.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But like, exactly what you, you just shared of like, I'm hugging people. I'm telling'em I love'em. I feel like I'm a part of this thing. You're like. Yeah. Like that's the kingdom of heaven right there in so many ways.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And, and so like, you know, I, I always push back on Christians when they wanna like, just crap on dance, music or the race. I'm like, Hey, wait a second. Wait a second.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

These people, if they've never heard the gospel, they've never had any encounter with Jesus. I totally understand why they're doing what they're doing.

Speaker 2:

Totally, totally. And, and what's beautiful is, you know, hopefully when you grow out of that phase, which, you know, I think a lot, a lot of artists have, have, have been in and, you know, can maybe still be an allure to, to the scene as well, but it's like, all right, once you're like, okay, I know this isn't healthy, right? Mm. You know, like I'm, I'm, I'm putting these things behind me. And, and again, no. No hate on anybody that that still is in that space, but at least in my own journey, you know, putting all of that behind me, I definitely went through a phase of kind of a weird relationship, I guess, with the scene. You know, like where do I fit in? Where do I belong? A lot of people experience

Speaker:

that. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But eventually being able to, you know. Uh, find a place in myself where it's like, man, like I still, I'm able to have those euphoric experiences kind of without the drugs.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean? Where of just like, oh, when I really set my heart on just being that kind of person all the time with everybody and. You know, like not needing to take a pill to give unconditional love. Yeah. But just being like, oh, I'm just, I am that. Yeah. I don't need substances. I don't need alcohol to open up more. I don't need anything to do that. And it's like. You know, I've, I feel like I, I feel like I found that on my own, just in, in terms of my own, you know, kind of personal development. And obviously like I've been very involved in working on myself, emotional intelligence, like taking every program that you can take, you know. Um, but that's really where it actually clicked for me, was one of my friends. This is so funny. Shout out to my, my, my friend Tyler. He actually has a. Christian electronic project as well called Atherton, which he launched a little while ago. Um, and this was a couple years ago. I was like, you know, um, I was, I was just being vulnerable. I was posting some stuff on online, just opening up, being like, man, like I'm kind of struggling right now. You know, like, I'm going through some shit. Life is kind of hard or whatever. And just part of my journey of being open and being vulnerable, and, and he, he, this was around Christmas. This must have been like three years ago, four years ago. He just blows me. I get, I get like five text messages from him that are all like. Two minute long voice notes and he's just like, Hey brother, like I saw you like just struggling. You know that you're struggling right now. And I just gotta tell you, man, he's like, I know you're a, I know you're a programs guy. Like you like to follow the program and follow the system. And he's like this. He's like, I just gotta share something's calling me to share. Like I found like this is the first program I found that's working for me. I've done it all. I've done cold showers, I've done microdosing, I've done, you know, I've done the self-help traditional shit.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And. And it was so funny'cause at the time I'm like, he was just like, you gotta find Jesus, you know? And I was like, bro, I was like,

Speaker:

and it's the best free program too.

Speaker 2:

He just, he just blew me up with like 15 voice notes. Yeah. And we joke about it all the time because it's like, I, I, I eventually did, but at the time I was like, bro, you're crazy. Like, yeah, you are absolutely insane for blowing me up. Thank God he did.'cause what it actually did was it planted a seed, um, that it took a while to grow. I think it took me moving to Texas to grow. Uh, it, it, it, you know. What, what, what eventually happened? You know, what I would say is, you know, it's like the feeling of like, something was still missing. It was like, why are things still not working? Yeah. Like why am I, you know, going to the shows, you know, trying to find it there, trying to find it in like, the personal development space. Yep. You know, um, just the feeling of almost there always still being sort of this void or something that, that, that you're searching for. That I was searching for. Um. And then eventually, you know, I remember just seeing other people that were just like, yo, it just seems like this guy. He like, what is it about this guy that, like he's got something that, that I don't like. Why is he so happy or positive or fulfilled or successful or whatever it may be. And I just started seeing this pattern. I'm like, oh, this guy's got like God in his corner. You know what I mean? Like this is like this is a man of faith. Yeah. And I just noticed myself. Being very attracted to a lot of these types of, of, of men, especially where I'm like, oh. And I was just like, fuck. I think like, I think my boy's right. You know, I think like there's this, there is this, maybe there's something there, you know? And I started going to church and it's a very slow process for me. I'm like, what's this whole,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker 2:

what's this whole church thing about this whole Jesus thing? You know? Like I, I'm like, I, I come from more of the hippie new age. Yeah. God in the universe. Like, I'm cool with that, but like, who's this Jesus guy? And, and. Eventually what I kind of realized, I'm like, oh, like it really just is to me, what made it click. I was like, well, this is, this is the template. This is the role model of. How to live a, a, a, a good life. You know what I mean? And it's like I, when I go to the gym, I need to know like, what are the sets? What are the reps gimme the gimme, the weights, what do I need to follow? And, and I really needed that in my life of like, okay, here kind of, here's the playbook, here's the rule book. There's a reason your life isn't working out the way that you want to. You keep trying to do it your own way. And he's like, I came down. I showed y'all how to do it. We wrote a big ass book about it, you know, and I realized this the other day. I'm like, man, why have I been so, I've been such a personal development, self-help junkie. I'm like, I read all the, I've read all the books for 15 years. I've been reading all the books. Yeah. And I realized, I'm like, well, the Bible is like the, oh, the first personal development book. You know? I was like, so much of all the stuff that's in here, this is where it came from anyways, you know? And so I've always been. Craving that, just the constant kind of desire and quest for like, how do I become better? You know, what is it? And, and I will say like this, since I've been really digging in and, and really, I mean it's a, since so much has changed since. The actually getting baptized. Yeah. It was a year and a half. A year and a half of kind of exploring and being like, oh, about this.

Speaker:

It shared that. I would love to hear like just that journey.'cause that's a big moment for people of like, it's a big

Speaker 2:

moment. Yeah.

Speaker:

I remember you sharing when we connected about how you posted about it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And you were getting tons of messages and

Speaker 2:

it was

Speaker:

great. I would just love to hear you share a bit more about the whole,

Speaker 2:

and it's, it's funny man.'cause like, you know, I, I'd say this is a bit of my, you know, as I say, my, my coming outta the closet moment, you know,'cause I'm a

Speaker:

Christian.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Because there's a weird, there's kind of a weird thing of, uh. And it's like, yeah, why? I don't know. There's a, for me growing up, I guess I grew up very liberal. Yeah. Northern California, very hippie. Like even my family's kinda like, what? Like, you wanna be Christian? Like

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

they're, they're super on board and cool with it, but it's just my own personal journeys. Um,

Speaker:

there's a lot of stigmas that people can attach

Speaker 2:

to a lot of stigma. It, yeah. And especially in the scene. And that's why I love, like, you know, for us to kind of come out and talk about it. Yeah. But that's exactly what happened is it was about a year and a half of like, all right, I'm starting to go to church and, and it's different here, Austin, we're in Texas. Every, you know, Jesus is cool out here. Yeah. It's not weird, you know, like coming from California, it's like super weird if you're like, oh, you go to church, like, you're weird. You know? That's funny out here. It's not weird. Yeah. So, uh, socially makes a difference, but it was a very slow process, a year and a half of like, I'm popping in, I'm trying to learn. I'm like, what the hell are they talking about in here? Yeah. And, um, but what was, what was different? I've always been very open and curious and I've popped into church before, but what was different was I started feeling it in my heart.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I started, it wasn't just like, oh, I'm trying to understand it. Totally. Intellectually, it was like something is happening. Inside of my body and I can feel it. I'm like, why am I crying right now? Yeah. You know, why is like, my heart just cracking open? And so the more I've got, I, I went in, you know, finally, uh, I remember at the beginning of the year, this year, you know, my church was like, yo, like why? I know a lot of York. I kind of one foot in, one foot out still sort of exploring. And they're like, what if you just went all in for for a year? And then at the end of the year, if your life isn't better, you can always go back. And that kind of sat with me. And so eventually when they, they had a baptism, I was like, yeah, like fuck it. I'm in, I'm in like, let's, let's, let's go. I felt, you know, again, just walking in the woods, I had to clear download. God was like, yo, do it like a week before. And I was like, cool. Um, and I mean, I, I can't even begin to explain and describe how much has just changed and shifted in, in, in my life of it's that like, you gotta, you. Let go of your old life. You know, it's like, like the old life kind of burns. Yeah. Being

Speaker:

born again, it means somebody has to die.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is crazy, dude. It's crazy. But I've never felt more alignment, more conviction, more life, more vitality, and it hasn't been easy. This has been one of the hardest years of my life.

Speaker:

Well

Speaker 2:

been the hardest years of my life.

Speaker:

People think following Jesus is like this easy. Life gets easy and everything's all good. No, it's. It's hard.

Speaker 2:

It's hard, dude. It's hard. It's

Speaker:

hard,

Speaker 2:

but, but

it's,

Speaker:

but you, but it's the most fulfilling thing you'll do.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah. So much.'cause the thing is, is like, it's kind of like my, my old life was hard, you know? Mm. My old mindset, my old posture, you know, is like, trying to do it all alone is hard, you know? Yes. For me, one of the big, big things that clicked was like, I didn't really have a father that was around to, to, to raise me.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

You know, I had a. You know, like an alcoholic, absentee father, and we just don't, you know, he's around. We don't really have a relationship. There were years where like, yeah, we didn't really even talk and we're, we're repairing that, but it was like, I didn't have that. So it's almost like in my psyche and in my, yeah, in my soul, there's been a void.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

You know, and then I am like, oh, that's really kind of interesting and funny. They call it like the father, you know, like God being like the father. I'm like, well, shit. I'm like, yeah, I've, I've been looking for a father my whole life.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

You know, I've been trying to fill it in all these other places, or I've been playing that role in a way for a lot of people, you know? Um, and, and I, it's almost like I've been the coach, the mentor, the one carrying so many others for so long, which is rad.'cause God's been working through me.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

But it's kinda like, where do I go?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Who do I get to lean on? Who do I get to be a little child to? Yep. And I've been finding that, you know, and it's, it's good. Um, it's been absolutely fucking transformational.

Speaker:

I love it.

Speaker 2:

Massive.

Speaker:

I love that, bro. That's

Speaker 2:

so

Speaker:

good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, dude, it's, it's, it's been an exciting journey and it's like the more I, it just kind of let go and surrender. Um. The more magic starts to show up.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

So I'm just like, yo, I'm, I'm all in. Like, let's, let's see what your plans are. Yeah. I've been, it's good. I'm four. I've been doing it for myself for 40 years, and I'm like, I, I, yeah. I love myself. I love my life. And at the same time I'm like, there's, I'm like, I know there's so much more. So I'm like, totally. Let's see. Let's see what happens if

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

If I let you take over.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

What do you got in store for me?

Speaker:

It's hard, but it's so freeing at the same time when you get to that place.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You know, you're like all Lord. Let's go. Yeah. That's so good, man. I, I'm so excited for you. Yeah. It's been so cool just to have the conversations over the last few months of just you and your journey and, you know, I shared the idea with you of like, you're just so good at conversation and storytelling. Like, I think there's just so much more that is there for you, thank you. To share and even like this conversation, like

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I think there's be so many more conversations for you to pull out, like really cool, unique things of what God's doing or just with other people and other artists, but it's like,

Speaker 2:

yeah.

Speaker:

Keep going, bro. Yeah, it's so good. It's so needed. And I, I just, I wanna celebrate that and

Speaker 2:

thank you

Speaker:

and, and, and who you are and what you're doing. It's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for being a part of my journey, man. I mean, it really is. It's like, the process is almost so simple. It's like you feel the intuitive nudge, or you hear the voice, you hear the calling, you know, have the courage to answer it.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

You know, and, and go for it. And just listen to that. I mean. The reason we're sitting here is I felt that intuitive nudge one day. Yeah. And I just found the text message. I was like, yo, I think you should start that rave Jesus call again. And, and yeah, you want support with that? Let's do that. And so now it's been six

Speaker:

months and I've been thinking about it. I was so, it was so cool. But I was like, man, I really feel like I'm supposed to start this back up with just a certain. Like, there's only people doing it in the industry.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, and then you, we connected and you were like, Hey, I feel like you should start that call. And I was like, well, I've been praying about that. So

Speaker 2:

yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's

Speaker:

do this.

Speaker 2:

And, and I think that's what's been cool is kind of like, it's funny man.'cause I'm sure it's like when I posted my baptism, there were, you know, like. I dunno, like 20, I lost like 20 followers or something. You know, they, there's still this funny thing of the kinda like putting yourself out there Yeah. And just talking about your faith. And again, not at all from like a preachy, this is the way you need to do it at all. Yeah. But just kind of like from a place of, you know, um, there's so many other people out there that I think are. Questioning and asking and curious. And also there's so many artists that I found of like when I did make that post about my baptism and then I had a hundred people in my dms, almost like behind the scenes though, like you

Speaker:

know,

like

Speaker:

this is a secret secret. Well that's what is super cool about what's going on. And like you doing that and like this conversation is, yeah, I mean we both know this'cause we're having conversations behind the scenes with tons of people. Yeah. But there are a lot of people on a journey right now and they're figuring out who God is and who Jesus is and how he impacts their life and. Um, and some people have become Christians or like wanting to. It's so wild to see. And I think a lot of people are a little bit hesitant'cause like, I don't know how this is gonna get received.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So I love that. Like, hey, I'll take the brunt. Yeah, you'll take the brunt.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I'm like, fuck it.

Speaker:

Let's, let's split it out there. Let's, you can, Hey, if anyone that wants to hate on come hate on me, let every leave everybody else alone. Like, we'll deal with it. But Totally. It's this, it's cool.'cause I think this stuff is like, get permission to people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Like, hey, I'll actually know I don't have to be afraid of this, or I can talk about this or

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Uh, or ask questions and, and just be curious. Like, you know, I think anyone who's listened to this, if you have any questions.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker:

Or want any prayer DM me

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

At Ray Jesus Music.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Dm me

Speaker:

DM Nick.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Like we will, like, we're here to have these conversations with people

Speaker 2:

and that's it. It's simply like taking the, taking the conversation out from behind closed doors. Yeah. Putting it out there.'cause it's funny, it's like when I see how many other people are also, uh, curious about these kinds of conversations or wanting to have them. you know, you said something a minute ago as well that I think is so important. It was like we're just. Exploring this, you know, like there it is. Like trying to understand something that's totally not understandable, you know, like God is so big and infinite in the concept of, of all of it, you know, I think is so huge that there's no final destination of like, we got this figured out. Yeah. We're in the process for the rest of our lives of trying to figure it out. Yeah. And being curious and seeing, you know, seeing what happens and seeing, seeing what works. And also like. Trying to be righteous and failing and Yeah. And you know, it's like, it's, it's, I think that that's an important point to make, that it's like, it's, it's kind of just like an endless journey of curiosity. And what I have found what has been amazing is just find, finding other people to do it with. Yep. Of like, oh, a lot of these questions maybe are questions I've been asking in the back of my mind, but finding other people that I. Bounce these ideas around with and have somebody in my corner like, cool. Like, let's, let's, uh, I don't know, let's be on this journey together. Yeah. You know? That's so good. Huge for me.

Speaker:

I love that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And I'm, it's so good. I'm, I'm absolutely honored that, uh, God has crossed our paths that we get to be on this journey together. I feel like it is, you know, still just the beginning of something really amazing in the Be really, um, yeah. Super grateful for you. Just taking the time to, to come through and, and share a bit about your story here and

Speaker:

so fun. I love it. It's so cool to see what God's doing and. Getting to talk about it, and I would actually just love to pray for everybody real quick before we end. Of course. I was

Speaker 2:

gonna, I

Speaker:

was

Speaker 2:

gonna say, there's only one way to wrap this

Speaker:

up, so you

Speaker 2:

pray us out.

Speaker:

So, um, yeah, Lord, thank you for Nick and just his life and what he's doing and his passion to share stories and, and have conversations. Um, we just, we need to bless that and we pray for every single person that listens to this podcast. No matter where you're at, no matter where you're from, no matter what your thoughts are about. Jesus or God or anything like just know that you're loved, uh, and that you matter and you have value and you have purpose. And. God would love to have a relationship with you. And, um, we just declare peace over your minds and your bodies and just may your life be filled with just a, a joy that is incomprehensible, that it's, you're like, this is just something I've never experienced before. And that you can know that, uh, that's from, that's from the Lord and he loves you so much. And so we just pray healing and miracles in people's lives. If you're dealing with any sickness or diseases, just that your bodies get healed. Um, we pray for. Uh, just for all the artists out there, like incredible creativity, songs and ideas from heaven that, um, that just bring in usher in sounds that are just so captivating and, um, and incredible. Um, Lord, we know you love dance music. We know you love the dance music industry, and so we, we just bless the dance music industry and we thank you that we get to make this amazing music that is filled with massive kick drums and amazing scents and all the things and lights and lasers, and sounds like we love all of it. Um, Lord, we love you so, so much. In Jesus name we rave. Amen.

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Nik Cherwink

Host